RIP Kobe Bryant, dies in Helicopter Crash (01/26/20)

[exculpatory]

Ditto.

[jeremym480]

I just wanted to say RIP Kobe and to share something about the only time I ever got to see him play live. It was a random mid-season game against the New Orleans Hornets in March of 2013 (the Kobe, Nash, Dwight, Artest team) so I'll forgive you if you don't remember but it really was an incredible performance to see live.

Highlights:

Watch on YouTube

here's a video with better quality:

Watch on YouTube

We were sitting four rows behind the Lakers bench and what y'all don't see is this video is some dude starting heckling him pretty hardcore towards the end of 2nd quarter... and from that point on Kobe just flipped a switch.

Here's the boxscore https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201303060NOH.html
Check out Kobe's stats by Quarter and particularly in the 2nd Half (where he played the entire half). Kobe put that team on his back though and the Mamba Mentality was in full effect. It really was something to see in person.

I'm sure I took more pics at the game but I only have two I uploaded to Facebook and lost the other pics. This was one and while it doesn't have Kobe in it, I think you can clearly see his impact by Jersey's in front of me (four Kobe jersey, no other players).

[RondoToKG]

I don't want to censor people's reactions. It's obviously a fine line, and I get your and other's opinions on it. I do. Threads mean different things to different people, as long as everyone is respectful to each other, I don't see cause to warn/edit things. Other posters/mods may disagree.

It's derailing the thread. It's not about silencing anyone. The topic of the thread is "Rest in Peace Kobe Bryant" and there's people in here airing out their problems with him and not just him, but people who are mourning him. One person referred to mourners as "selfish" and is airing his opinion on people mourning. This.= guy and I quote him, "If we are more emotional about some dude we didn't know who played basketball dying because he at one time entertained us than we are about some regular dude who died young, i think it speaks to a societal flaw and our own selfishness." He says "our own" but he's clearly laid out he doesn't hold the desire to mourn him so idk what that even means. Still don't agree with you but I respect your stance of trying to give people free speech.

You weren’t talking to me, but answering anyway. I have lived in CA for many years, with roughly a decade in both NorCal and SoCal. Was Kobe’s “neighbor” for a few years a few years after the sexual assault allegations. People who met him said he was an approachable guy and friendly for being one of the most famous people in the world.

As someone who has lived among the Laker fans, I get it. It’s all very sad and he was a hero to LA in many ways. But I’ve never been comfortable with the whitewashing of his assault case. It is not hyperbole to say that she received many death threats from Laker fans, or that his lawyers went scorched earth on her until she no longer wanted to testify.

The day he died, a female relative who isn’t into sports asked why this guy was getting so much hero worship despite likely being a violent rapist. It may or may not be more complicated than that, but it got me thinking, and after watching some more hero worship media coverage, I got more and more uncomfortable with how it was just being completely ignored.

Ultimately, sports just not that important to me. I am in no way OK with what was alleged to have taken place that night, and think he probably should have done time for it.

In sum, I have no problem feeling bad for the crash victims and their loved ones, including Kobe, while also having serious misgivings about what really seems to have taken place that night. Your mileage may vary, and not here to lecture you or anyone else about your reactions to this, but that one is mine.

You're making assumptions... She had sex with someone else right after she had sex with Kobe. Kinda weird? More so, we're seemingly discussing this in here after his tragic death that so many people are sad about.... Why couldn't this discussion have a thread of its own? Why discuss this in a place where people are hurting and mourning? I mean, do you care it bothers people? This isn't the right place for this discussion, yet now it is because you're all here to take it over... and more than anyone else, the one's who want to voice their disgust over Kobe's past (again, a past that was never even proven) seem to be here more than people mourning now. It's just sad. I have my feelings about the guy, and have for a LONG time. However, let the man die and let people mourn. Jesus.

Parl, I feel like you're spot on about your feelings regarding this. But my feeling is you gotta give people a place to discuss it if you decide to remove posts or enforce this issue. Just my 2 cents.

There's a difference between ignoring something, and choosing not to mention it. Some here are missing that point. Familar with the popular advice, "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all?" There are times and places where such a thing shouldn't apply. This isn't one of them.

I get that none of us know the guy, but how hard is this to understand? I feel like it's the equivalent of showing up at a wake and talking crap about the guy/gal while they're sitting in the casket. Sure, he/she might have been a terrible person but there's like... an INSANE amount of time to bring that up afterwards, not to mention 17 years pass and probably not one thread about it. It would be one thing if he actually was convicted of rape... it's another that he was not. Believe me, I think the rape situation was sketchy but it wasn't something I felt destroyed him as a person once he was acquitted and they quite blatantly found another mans DNA in her damn panties from the alleged rape into the next day when the evidence was retrieved. You get raped and have sex again? Interesting but who knows. I read into the details of it all and there was something fishy there, and since I did my research I never held the rape thing against him. People use pain or force for pleasure all the time, it's VERY common and it's often consensual as well. Obviously when it's not, that's rape. Maybe Kobe didn't know she wasnt into it and afterwards she felt violated or something? Who knows. I urge people to look into the details of the case. Especially surrounding the evidence and the response the court had.

It's a touchy subject for obvious reasons, I agree with djFan that it should stay open for now.

I do think that the Colorado stuff has gotten glossed over, but i also think that people have chances to better themselves, and he seemingly became a pretty devout family man. He did a ton of good, whether through charities, donating his time, mentoring a lot of athletes. But that doesn't make up for what he did, life isn't black and white like that. I feel horribly for all the family members, the players in the league, the Lakers organization, pretty much everyone. Kobe was an incredible player, loved his family, and it's obviously it's a horrible situation. Should be able to discuss the good AND the bad, as long as it's respectful. Maybe split them into two threads?

It's getting glossed over because the guy just died with his 13 year old daughter in a horrific crash 2 days ago

[Feed Your Head]

It's getting glossed over because the guy just died with his 13 year old daughter in a horrific crash 2 days ago

That's my fault for not clarifying. I just meant the last few years since he's retired it has mostly been glossed over.

All you need to do is look over my posts from the last few days to know how i feel about Kobe, I have zero interest in saying anything negative about him lol.

[RondoToKG]

It's getting glossed over because the guy just died with his 13 year old daughter in a horrific crash 2 days ago

That's my fault for not clarifying. I just meant the last few years since he's retired it has mostly been glossed over.

All you need to do is look over my posts from the last few days to know how i feel about Kobe, I have zero interest in saying anything negative about him lol.

Ohh ok I gotcha. I just feel like whether people like him or not, they're being extremely harsh here.

[5InOfLouisville]

It's derailing the thread. It's not about silencing anyone. The topic of the thread is "Rest in Peace Kobe Bryant" and there's people in here airing out their problems with him and not just him, but people who are mourning him. One person referred to mourners as "selfish" and is airing his opinion on people mourning. This.= guy and I quote him, "If we are more emotional about some dude we didn't know who played basketball dying because he at one time entertained us than we are about some regular dude who died young, i think it speaks to a societal flaw and our own selfishness." He says "our own" but he's clearly laid out he doesn't hold the desire to mourn him so idk what that even means. Still don't agree with you but I respect your stance of trying to give people free speech.

You weren’t talking to me, but answering anyway. I have lived in CA for many years, with roughly a decade in both NorCal and SoCal. Was Kobe’s “neighbor” for a few years a few years after the sexual assault allegations. People who met him said he was an approachable guy and friendly for being one of the most famous people in the world.

As someone who has lived among the Laker fans, I get it. It’s all very sad and he was a hero to LA in many ways. But I’ve never been comfortable with the whitewashing of his assault case. It is not hyperbole to say that she received many death threats from Laker fans, or that his lawyers went scorched earth on her until she no longer wanted to testify.

The day he died, a female relative who isn’t into sports asked why this guy was getting so much hero worship despite likely being a violent rapist. It may or may not be more complicated than that, but it got me thinking, and after watching some more hero worship media coverage, I got more and more uncomfortable with how it was just being completely ignored.

Ultimately, sports just not that important to me. I am in no way OK with what was alleged to have taken place that night, and think he probably should have done time for it.

In sum, I have no problem feeling bad for the crash victims and their loved ones, including Kobe, while also having serious misgivings about what really seems to have taken place that night. Your mileage may vary, and not here to lecture you or anyone else about your reactions to this, but that one is mine.

You're making assumptions... She had sex with someone else right after she had sex with Kobe. Kinda weird? More so, we're seemingly discussing this in here after his tragic death that so many people are sad about.... Why couldn't this discussion have a thread of its own? Why discuss this in a place where people are hurting and mourning? I mean, do you care it bothers people? This isn't the right place for this discussion, yet now it is because you're all here to take it over... and more than anyone else, the one's who want to voice their disgust over Kobe's past (again, a past that was never even proven) seem to be here more than people mourning now. It's just sad. I have my feelings about the guy, and have for a LONG time. However, let the man die and let people mourn. Jesus.

Parl, I feel like you're spot on about your feelings regarding this. But my feeling is you gotta give people a place to discuss it if you decide to remove posts or enforce this issue. Just my 2 cents.

There's a difference between ignoring something, and choosing not to mention it. Some here are missing that point. Familar with the popular advice, "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all?" There are times and places where such a thing shouldn't apply. This isn't one of them.

I get that none of us know the guy, but how hard is this to understand? I feel like it's the equivalent of showing up at a wake and talking crap about the guy/gal while they're sitting in the casket. Sure, he/she might have been a terrible person but there's like... an INSANE amount of time to bring that up afterwards, not to mention 17 years pass and probably not one thread about it. It would be one thing if he actually was convicted of rape... it's another that he was not. Believe me, I think the rape situation was sketchy but it wasn't something I felt destroyed him as a person once he was acquitted and they quite blatantly found another mans DNA in her damn panties from the alleged rape into the next day when the evidence was retrieved. You get raped and have sex again? Interesting but who knows. I read into the details of it all and there was something fishy there, and since I did my research I never held the rape thing against him. People use pain or force for pleasure all the time, it's VERY common and it's often consensual as well. Obviously when it's not, that's rape. Maybe Kobe didn't know she wasnt into it and afterwards she felt violated or something? Who knows. I urge people to look into the details of the case. Especially surrounding the evidence and the response the court had.

It's a touchy subject for obvious reasons, I agree with djFan that it should stay open for now.

I do think that the Colorado stuff has gotten glossed over, but i also think that people have chances to better themselves, and he seemingly became a pretty devout family man. He did a ton of good, whether through charities, donating his time, mentoring a lot of athletes. But that doesn't make up for what he did, life isn't black and white like that. I feel horribly for all the family members, the players in the league, the Lakers organization, pretty much everyone. Kobe was an incredible player, loved his family, and it's obviously it's a horrible situation. Should be able to discuss the good AND the bad, as long as it's respectful. Maybe split them into two threads?

It's getting glossed over because the guy just died with his 13 year old daughter in a horrific crash 2 days ago

This isnt a wake. Its a message board. That being said, it wasnt my goal to offend anyone

Im trying to leave this alone for the greater good, but suffice to say that, given the facts of the case, that are all available, never disputed by kobe, and include his own words...i can guarantee that i find your characterization and analysis of the rape that took place just as offensive as you find my words about kobe.

Maybe this isnt the place for it, so i wont elaborate. I would urge you to seek out the info and form your own opinion

But i wouldnt advocate for you to be censored just bc i find you offensive

Ive said everything i need to say on the topic, and unless someone addresses me directly, im bowing out

Again, i sincerely apologize for offending anyone, and i even understand that point of view. But i stand by everything i said 100%.

[RondoToKG]

This isnt a wake. Its a message board. That being said, it wasnt my goal to offend anyone

Im trying to leave this alone for the greater good, but suffice to say that, given the facts of the case, that are all available, never disputed by kobe, and include his own words...i can guarantee that i find your characterization and analysis of the rape that took place just as offensive as you find my words about kobe.

Maybe this isnt the place for it, so i wont elaborate. I would urge you to seek out the info and form your own opinion

But i wouldnt advocate for you to be censored just bc i find you offensive

Ive said everything i need to say on the topic, and unless someone addresses me directly, im bowing out

Again, i sincerely apologize for offending anyone, and i even understand that point of view. But i stand by everything i said 100%.

The wake thing was an example, maybe a slightly extreme but he same sentiment applies. I didn't address you directly because I wasn't talking to you... I get your stance and there's no need to discuss it further.

[SmartWentCrazy]

i have no beef with an RIP, praise-only thread. I didnt know thats what it was coming in. i thought it was about thoughtful and open discussion of his legacy. i'll see my way out of it. no offense to anyone intended.

Cave and i disagree and everyone wants to lock the thread
Cave and i agree and everyone wants to lock the thread.

homeboy and i cant win.

At least you agree on stuff thats actually important

[Triple7]

mods : this has turned into a trash thread. this topic has no place in a Rest In Peace thread.

Exactly! This has turned into a disgusting hatred thread for some insensitive posters! Wtf! I’m out!

I think the people bringing up the rape charges have been very respectful. They waited and let people get their initial reactions out, and have stuck to the facts. It's part of his legacy, and a valid discussion point.

In my personal (non-mod) opinion, I don't see how not wanting to gloss over rape/sex assault charges could be considered hatred or insensitive. He very likely committed a horrible act. Whether he turned his life around after that, nothing erases that. Seeing people glorify him or brush that off or demonize people bringing it up is pretty hard to swallow, honestly.

I don’t agree with this sorry! If you continue to read some of these posters response, it’s truly was a hatred posts. There was no respect at all. Just imagine if this was your family or friend who died, and you hear people discussing his rape charges, the day after he died. This is a RIP Kobe thread. If you want to discuss his legacy, then create a new thread about that.

[threrf23]

i also think that people have chances to better themselves

It depends. Sometimes people don't know better, sometimes they don't realize the effects of their actions, sometimes they're just a scumbag. People learn and people mature, but a scumbag is a scumbag and remains a scumbag. Harvey Weinstein isn't going to better himself, and if he does he'll still be a scumbag, and he will still be capable of the same.

Should be able to discuss the good AND the bad, as long as it's respectful

Agreed, but "respectful" is key. This is a memorial thread. There are people who knew the guy and/or idolized him reading it. There are people who never knew too much about him, possibly basing their opinions off of what they read here. And this would be a sensitive topic without that factor.

It isn't respectful to dwell on the negative here. And while facts shouldn't hurt anybody when stated respectfully, opinions are altogether different, they are not inherently useful and should not be stated as fact.

Same goes for Kobe's accuser. If anybody is going to question her story - document what you say and check that it's relevant. Kobe's accuser aside, there are lots of rape victims who are reluctant to come forward because of those who are anxious to doubt them.

Personally, I'm okay saying I don't know exactly what happened in Colorado. But I also know enough to personally conclude that Kobe doesn't deserve comparisons to the Harvey Weinsteins and Bill Cosbys, or even Ben Roethlisbergers that he gets grouped with if people aren't careful regarding this subject.

[keevsnick1]

Man what hurts the most of all of this was that his daughter died with him, and it seems by all accounts that Kobe was a good father. I mean the last thing he did on the earth was fly with his daughter to a basketball game. As tragic as a 41 year old dying it's even worse that someone he loved so much died with him.

The one thing you always had to respect about Kobe was his work ethic, the guy never stopped trying to be the best. There was a drive to him that was unmatched. You can always tell how good an opponent is is by how much Boston fans hate him, and by that metric the guy was truly one of the greats. Its amazing how many players were touched by his life.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

[Captain_Caveman]

i also think that people have chances to better themselves

It depends. Sometimes people don't know better, sometimes they don't realize the effects of their actions, sometimes they're just a scumbag. People learn and people mature, but a scumbag is a scumbag and remains a scumbag. Harvey Weinstein isn't going to better himself, and if he does he'll still be a scumbag, and he will still be capable of the same.

Should be able to discuss the good AND the bad, as long as it's respectful

Agreed, but "respectful" is key. This is a memorial thread. There are people who knew the guy and/or idolized him reading it. There are people who never knew too much about him, possibly basing their opinions off of what they read here. And this would be a sensitive topic without that factor.

It isn't respectful to dwell on the negative here. And while facts shouldn't hurt anybody when stated respectfully, opinions are altogether different, they are not inherently useful and should not be stated as fact.

Same goes for Kobe's accuser. If anybody is going to question her story - document what you say and check that it's relevant. Kobe's accuser aside, there are lots of rape victims who are reluctant to come forward because of those who are anxious to doubt them.

Personally, I'm okay saying I don't know exactly what happened in Colorado. But I also know enough to personally conclude that Kobe doesn't deserve comparisons to the Harvey Weinsteins and Bill Cosbys, or even Ben Roethlisbergers that he gets grouped with if people aren't careful regarding this subject.

It's pretty simple. The moral code of some is primarily concerned with respecting the recently dead, and others are primarily concerned with not sexually assaulting people. That's fine, and can easily be the point where some adults can agree to disagree.

Treating this like a legal proceeding, as many have, is kinda meh for me. We aren't his jury. The lack of a legal conviction keeps one out of jail, not public judgment. We know that OJ likely did it, and that Aaron Hernandez likely shot those two Cape Verdean immigrants outside that nightclub. Because despite the lack of convictions, that's what a decided majority of "facts" point to rather strongly, just as they do with Kobe. Not definitively, but in the house right next door to it. Hence the repeated use of the words "likely" and "probably".

Will also point out for a 3rd time that the case unravelled only after she decided not to testify after receiving many, many death threats and getting destroyed in the national press by his legal team. At which point Kobe's lawyers wrote an agreed-upon apology that was basically a confession, before eventually settling a civil case with her.

Everyone is welcome to assign their own value to it, or lack of it. Or take it in different ways entirely. Up to you. But it's a major, major part of his whole deal for me, and not some footnote. A large portion of people would have spent a large portion of their lives in prison for the exact same facts at hand as existed in that case.

[canman1971]

I'm certainly not gonna respond to anyone's specific posts. That being said, many in this thread have deeply disappointed me on a human level. This was meant to be a memorial thread, hence the RIP in the title. This was a tragic event on all levels from Kobe and his daughter to the rest of the passengers and pilot as well as their families who are really dealing with it. Should we start looking into the past of the other victims and discuss it here? There is always a time and place for ALL things to be discussed, and there are times when one should realize, perhaps this isn't the place. But, there are always those who feel their internet d**k is bigger than the next that they have to invoke their moral views as finite without reservation or inquiry. Don't get me wrong, I have my own personal views of Kobe as a player, a parent and a human being; and those thoughts vary from topic to topic, as I am sure they do for all of us in some way to some one. That being said, in times of tragedy and unanswered questions, perhaps those should put their internet appendage away just for a bit? I mean really, what is there to gain? Pray for the families that it actually affects if you'd like to do something meaningful.

[Feed Your Head]

Time to get the thread back to what it's here for, another poster texted this to me earlier.

Watch on YouTube

[Captain_Caveman]

I'm certainly not gonna respond to anyone's specific posts. That being said, many in this thread have deeply disappointed me on a human level. This was meant to be a memorial thread, hence the RIP in the title. This was a tragic event on all levels from Kobe and his daughter to the rest of the passengers and pilot as well as their families who are really dealing with it. Should we start looking into the past of the other victims and discuss it here? There is always a time and place for ALL things to be discussed, and there are times when one should realize, perhaps this isn't the place. But, there are always those who feel their internet d**k is bigger than the next that they have to invoke their moral views as finite without reservation or inquiry. Don't get me wrong, I have my own personal views of Kobe as a player, a parent and a human being; and those thoughts vary from topic to topic, as I am sure they do for all of us in some way to some one. That being said, in times of tragedy and unanswered questions, perhaps those should put their internet appendage away just for a bit? I mean really, what is there to gain? Pray for the families that it actually affects if you'd like to do something meaningful.

I don't agree that any of this is a derailment just because the letters RIP were respectfully and understandably included in the thread title. Life is complicated. So is Kobe's legacy. No one is talking about anyone's close relative. He was a public figure, and every single poster has treaded lightly on that.

Some of us saying repeatedly that we are expressing our own conflicted thoughts with no judgment of how anyone else views this. And repeatedly, many saying that they are judging those of us in return.

If someone says that this has hit them hard, I won't question that even if it is a little suspect to me at first glance. A big part of me thinks people aren't mourning Kobe and 8 others so much as a piece of their childhood or fanhood. But that is not for me to say about any of you. Period. We are allowed to look at this differently, and grief is a funny thing. Many have expressed that it is the daughter part that hits them, and I can 100% relate. I will respect how others see this even if I don't get the same in return, with full knowledge that I am not in violation of the ToS or Kobe's existence.

[K For Three]

As a woman I have always been conflicted over Kobe. I feel awful he died and was in shock all of Sunday, felt numb. Not just for him, but all those victims.....

But people have to realize its a message forum too and nobody here is being extremely rude here either with any opinions based on what I have read. With a death comes conflicting feelings that can sometimes come out that sometimes one can't always hold back.

I admit I didn't like him too much, but I thought he was one of the top most exciting players to watch all time.

If anything it is great for me to see men into sports not be afraid to bring up something shady from his past, women can't be treated like they don't matter.


I am all for the tributes though and won't speak on the controversial matters much.

[return2glory]

I personally go off feelings. Almost 3 days later I’m still sad and shocked over this tragedy. Every time I’ve watched the Lakers play, I root against them. I didn’t like Kobe because he was a Laker. Yet, here I am, days later and I’m still sad over this.

This is bigger than our rivalry. Truly a sad moment, that all of us will remember. And for me personally it was closer in a sense because I was in that same small town of Calabasas at the time of the crash, within about 5 miles of the crash.

Kobe was one of the all time greats. Much respect for his game and work ethic and always aspiring to be the best. The entire Los Angeles area is still sad and that shows how big of an icon Kobe was.

[Fencer reregistered]

But I also know enough to personally conclude that Kobe doesn't deserve comparisons to the Harvey Weinsteins and Bill Cosbys, or even Ben Roethlisbergers that he gets grouped with if people aren't careful regarding this subject.

Because there was no evidence of a pattern of behavior, to the point that absence of evidence becomes evidence of absence.
And if he wasn't a serial sexual assaulter, then he deserves(d) much more benefit of the doubt in the one particular matter than guys do who have shown a pattern of such behavior.


Given the casualness with which he went into having sex with the woman in all versions of the story, he was probably a serial adulterer, as so many NBA stars are. But that is a vastly more minor matter than rape, and not for us to judge more harshly than his wife evidently did.

[5InOfLouisville]

But I also know enough to personally conclude that Kobe doesn't deserve comparisons to the Harvey Weinsteins and Bill Cosbys, or even Ben Roethlisbergers that he gets grouped with if people aren't careful regarding this subject.

Because there was no evidence of a pattern of behavior, to the point that absence of evidence becomes evidence of absence.
And if he wasn't a serial sexual assaulter, then he deserves(d) much more benefit of the doubt in the one particular matter than guys do who have shown a pattern of such behavior.


Given the casualness with which he went into having sex with the woman in all versions of the story, he was probably a serial adulterer, as so many NBA stars are. But that is a vastly more minor matter than rape, and not for us to judge more harshly than his wife evidently did.

Look, i am trying my best to stay out of this, but it keeps getting brought up, in this thread, by the same people who told me to shut up... Im trying to let you guys mourn. But I feel morally obligated to reply EVERY TIME i see someone defend rape or try to minimize what happened.

We can all say "we weren't there, we don't know". I suppose that is ultimately fair.

I will say that I also read the facts of the case. I urge every one interested to read the victim's report and kobe's version of events. Nonetheless, I came to a vastly different conclusion than you gentlemen did.

Im not judging anybody for adultery or any other consensual sex, rough, freaky, missionary, hole-in-the-sheet...whatever.

She kissed him consensually. That was it. After that, she told him "no" multiple times, every step of the way throughout the escalation,to which he responded by blocking her from leaving the room, choking her increasingly harder, and manhandling her. She cried throughout the intercourse, and afterwards he menacingly told her to keep it quiet. Her version, police report version, basically corroborated by Kobe himself...

Now you guys want to say this is a "lesser" offense?

Advocating against rape is more important than basketball. This is a hill I will die on. I read comments about setting, his friends and family, my "internet penis"(admittedly tiny)...I would NEVER bring this up at a wake or in front of his friends or family.

I totally understand you guys feeling sad and upset...I FELT THE SAME THINGS! 9 people died!!! It is sad AF!!!!...But, respectfully, none of us know him or have any relationship with him. You guys are basketball fans. This is the PERFECT setting to discuss his actions, ideally with an open mind and with respect to the complexity of his life, and life in general. I love Paul Pierce. I feel like, in a way, we grew up together. He's not my friend.

I promise to stay out of this thread for good if you guys promise to stop defending the rape that took place. If any of you want to have an honest and non-combative discussion about his complex legacy, lmk and I'll start a different thread. If not, I will get off my soapbox and allow this to be a straight tribute thread, so long as you guys do the same.