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What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling?

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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1101 » by Triple7 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:50 am

Jayson needs to work a lot on his game. He doesn’t have that elite ability of finishing around the rim. He is also not that good using back board. His handles needs improvement. He also has the tendency to ball hog, and fall in love too much with that step back fadaway 3’s. He did improve his shooting though. I wish he could pattern his game with KD’s, instead with Kobe’s. Instead of taking fadeaways, he could just straight up shoot, like what Kd does. He has the length, height and the shooting to do so.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1102 » by grantlongforpresident » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:52 am

akidlittle wrote:I can be wrong, but isn't he turning into an egoist who mostly cares about his own big moments and impressive statline. Ball just dies in his hands. I remember a couple his interviews from last season. The first one was before the season started. He was talking about his goals for the season and one of them was scoring 20 ppg. The second interview was with JJ Redick. In this one he mentioned that he wanted to get drafted by the Suns. Why? Cause he could score 20 ppg there lol.
Appetite comes with eating. What if he's obsessed with 30 ppg now? Considering him not being an efficient scorer and talented passer isn't it going to harm the team?


I share your concerns that he’s more focused on putting up points and increasing his 2K rating than making people around him better. The rebuttal is always that he’s young still, which is true.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1103 » by The Comedian » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:15 am

grantlongforpresident wrote:
akidlittle wrote:I can be wrong, but isn't he turning into an egoist who mostly cares about his own big moments and impressive statline. Ball just dies in his hands. I remember a couple his interviews from last season. The first one was before the season started. He was talking about his goals for the season and one of them was scoring 20 ppg. The second interview was with JJ Redick. In this one he mentioned that he wanted to get drafted by the Suns. Why? Cause he could score 20 ppg there lol.
Appetite comes with eating. What if he's obsessed with 30 ppg now? Considering him not being an efficient scorer and talented passer isn't it going to harm the team?


I share your concerns that he’s more focused on putting up points and increasing his 2K rating than making people around him better. The rebuttal is always that he’s young still, which is true.


I think the real rebuttal is that he has consistently made the team better the last two years. When he’s on the court, they’ve been one of the best teams in the league, and when he sits, they’ve been a garbage team. No starter has even been close to him in this regard. If he makes the team that much better while only caring about his points and 2k rating, he must be even better than people think.

That and his assists/assist rate have rapidly improved the last two seasons. He averages like a shot more a game than Jaylen, he’s averaging almost 5 assists a game. People are just weird with not being able to adjust their impression of a guy. We’re all guilty of it, I still suffer from it with Jaylen at times.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1104 » by grantlongforpresident » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:08 pm

The Comedian wrote:
grantlongforpresident wrote:
akidlittle wrote:I can be wrong, but isn't he turning into an egoist who mostly cares about his own big moments and impressive statline. Ball just dies in his hands. I remember a couple his interviews from last season. The first one was before the season started. He was talking about his goals for the season and one of them was scoring 20 ppg. The second interview was with JJ Redick. In this one he mentioned that he wanted to get drafted by the Suns. Why? Cause he could score 20 ppg there lol.
Appetite comes with eating. What if he's obsessed with 30 ppg now? Considering him not being an efficient scorer and talented passer isn't it going to harm the team?


I share your concerns that he’s more focused on putting up points and increasing his 2K rating than making people around him better. The rebuttal is always that he’s young still, which is true.


I think the real rebuttal is that he has consistently made the team better the last two years. When he’s on the court, they’ve been one of the best teams in the league, and when he sits, they’ve been a garbage team. No starter has even been close to him in this regard. If he makes the team that much better while only caring about his points and 2k rating, he must be even better than people think.

That and his assists/assist rate have rapidly improved the last two seasons. He averages like a shot more a game than Jaylen, he’s averaging almost 5 assists a game. People are just weird with not being able to adjust their impression of a guy. We’re all guilty of it, I still suffer from it with Jaylen at times.


Of course we are better with him on the court. He’s our best player. But right now he’s the best player on an underachieving team. A team so far defined by a lack of defensive intensity. We are one of the worst teams in the league in the 4th quarter. And as perk says, we often resort to “my turn” basketball aka hero ball.

It’s a failure of something beyond whichever scrubs or injuries people want to blame. Every team has scrubs. Every team has injuries.

But do you leave it all on the court? Do you win games you’re not supposed to win? Do you play best when it counts?

I think we may just have different expectations for Tatum. You seem content when he plays well (like last night and most nights). I’m looking for him to be that special player that elevates his team and fights night-in-and-night-out on both ends of the floor. So far this season he doesn’t look like that guy. He looks like a great scorer on a .500 team.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1105 » by The Comedian » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:15 pm

grantlongforpresident wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
grantlongforpresident wrote:
I share your concerns that he’s more focused on putting up points and increasing his 2K rating than making people around him better. The rebuttal is always that he’s young still, which is true.


I think the real rebuttal is that he has consistently made the team better the last two years. When he’s on the court, they’ve been one of the best teams in the league, and when he sits, they’ve been a garbage team. No starter has even been close to him in this regard. If he makes the team that much better while only caring about his points and 2k rating, he must be even better than people think.

That and his assists/assist rate have rapidly improved the last two seasons. He averages like a shot more a game than Jaylen, he’s averaging almost 5 assists a game. People are just weird with not being able to adjust their impression of a guy. We’re all guilty of it, I still suffer from it with Jaylen at times.


Of course we are better with him on the court. He’s our best player. But right now he’s the best player on an underachieving team. A team so far defined by a lack of defensive intensity. We are one of the worst teams in the league in the 4th quarter. And as perk says, we often resort to “my turn” basketball aka hero ball.

It’s a failure of something beyond whichever scrubs or injuries people want to blame. Every team has scrubs. Every team has injuries.

But do you leave it all on the court? Do you win games you’re not supposed to win? Do you play best when it counts?

I think we may just have different expectations for Tatum. You seem content when he plays well (like last night and most nights). I’m looking for him to be that special player that elevates his team and fights night-in-and-night-out on both ends of the floor. So far this season he doesn’t look like that guy. He looks like a great scorer on a .500 team.


Of course I want him to play better than just well, I just think he has done that. I can’t get on him for not going all out constantly when he says he’s having post covid issues with his breathing. I saw him go all out playing as hard as he could when it really mattered, in the playoffs last year while dealing with traps, box and one, etc.

He leads the team in minutes a game (by a lot), and is their most active team defender, besides Smart. You’re right, we just may have different expectations, it takes a long time for people to win titles in this league. It takes guys time to figure out how to play the game with the championship killer instinct and how to balance scoring/getting other guys looks, look at how old Lebron/KD/Curry/Dirk/Pierce/KG were when they won their first championship. It’s unfair to expect him to have it all figured out and playing at prime superstar level, IMO.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1106 » by MagicBagley18 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:24 pm

grantlongforpresident wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
grantlongforpresident wrote:
I share your concerns that he’s more focused on putting up points and increasing his 2K rating than making people around him better. The rebuttal is always that he’s young still, which is true.


I think the real rebuttal is that he has consistently made the team better the last two years. When he’s on the court, they’ve been one of the best teams in the league, and when he sits, they’ve been a garbage team. No starter has even been close to him in this regard. If he makes the team that much better while only caring about his points and 2k rating, he must be even better than people think.

That and his assists/assist rate have rapidly improved the last two seasons. He averages like a shot more a game than Jaylen, he’s averaging almost 5 assists a game. People are just weird with not being able to adjust their impression of a guy. We’re all guilty of it, I still suffer from it with Jaylen at times.


Of course we are better with him on the court. He’s our best player. But right now he’s the best player on an underachieving team. A team so far defined by a lack of defensive intensity. We are one of the worst teams in the league in the 4th quarter. And as perk says, we often resort to “my turn” basketball aka hero ball.

It’s a failure of something beyond whichever scrubs or injuries people want to blame. Every team has scrubs. Every team has injuries.

But do you leave it all on the court? Do you win games you’re not supposed to win? Do you play best when it counts?

I think we may just have different expectations for Tatum. You seem content when he plays well (like last night and most nights). I’m looking for him to be that special player that elevates his team and fights night-in-and-night-out on both ends of the floor. So far this season he doesn’t look like that guy. He looks like a great scorer on a .500 team.


I think we all want him to be a great player and elevate his teammates like some of the greats do- don’t think anyone would argue that. It’s hard to call him just a “great scorer” tho when he defends, rebounds, and his improving his playmaking. He’s more than just a scorer.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1107 » by grantlongforpresident » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:13 pm

The Comedian wrote:
grantlongforpresident wrote:
The Comedian wrote: it takes a long time for people to win titles in this league. It takes guys time to figure out how to play the game with the championship killer instinct and how to balance scoring/getting other guys looks, look at how old Lebron/KD/Curry/Dirk/Pierce/KG were when they won their first championship. It’s unfair to expect him to have it all figured out and playing at prime superstar level, IMO.


We are right back to my original carve out. He's still young and can get better. Agree.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1108 » by akidlittle » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:14 am

Are there any neurosurgeons? Put KG's brain into JT's head and we'll shred the hell out of this league for the next decade))
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1109 » by TheOGJabroni » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:16 pm

Triple7 wrote:Jayson needs to work a lot on his game. He doesn’t have that elite ability of finishing around the rim. He is also not that good using back board. His handles needs improvement. He also has the tendency to ball hog, and fall in love too much with that step back fadaway 3’s. He did improve his shooting though. I wish he could pattern his game with KD’s, instead with Kobe’s. Instead of taking fadeaways, he could just straight up shoot, like what Kd does. He has the length, height and the shooting to do so.

I agree with pretty much everything you're saying here but he may not be able to just pull up and shoot like KD does. KD is anywhere from 2-4 inches taller (depending who you believe lol), with a better wingspan, and I would say is marginally better shooter too. Tatum may need to be a bit more crafty to get his shots off but KD is definitely a player I'd like him to emulate as much as possible.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1110 » by The Comedian » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:04 pm

akidlittle wrote:Are there any neurosurgeons? Put KG's brain into JT's head and we'll shred the hell out of this league for the next decade))


No, but there’s plenty of armchair psychologists and body language experts, apparently.

Plus, with all the deep twos Tatum takes, you’d think KG’s brain is already in there.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1111 » by La Flame » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:14 pm

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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1112 » by 24istheLAW » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:27 pm

akidlittle wrote:I can be wrong, but isn't he turning into an egoist who mostly cares about his own big moments and impressive statline. Ball just dies in his hands. I remember a couple his interviews from last season. The first one was before the season started. He was talking about his goals for the season and one of them was scoring 20 ppg. The second interview was with JJ Redick. In this one he mentioned that he wanted to get drafted by the Suns. Why? Cause he could score 20 ppg there lol.
Appetite comes with eating. What if he's obsessed with 30 ppg now? Considering him not being an efficient scorer and talented passer isn't it going to harm the team?


He's definitely got diva qualities.

But NBA stars act like divas, so I do think it needs to be kept in perspective. Tatum scores and plays excellent defense, and needs to refine his shot selection/offensive habits. In the big picture of NBA bad behavior, that's really not alarming. Usually with scorers, they have no or negative defensive impact, and you're trying to get them to defend. On top of trying to get them to be judicious with the hero ball. We've got more to work with than most.

Frankly, I would say Tatum and Brown are ahead of Pierce and Walker maturity-wise. PP and AW were more gifted at putting the ball in the hoop IMO. Better touch and more natural ballhandlers, less athletic but more physical, played in a tougher era to score efficiently. Both of them were rightly accused of being selfish early on.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1113 » by flintsky21 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:54 pm

Funny how so many people here were hating on the idea of adding Harden because he might steal Tatum's thunder. But then Harden has proven that he can take a backseat and be a primary playmaker/then scorer. Harden would've been a one-man playbook with his ability to attack offenses and create for others. Now we have 3 scorers that are primary jumpshooters with limited slashing/playmaking.

I watched Ingram the previous game attack Jaylen Brown with ease twice in the final minutes (one resulted in a foul and the second in a game-tying layup). You hardly see Tatum be able to attack with ease. It takes a lot of dribbles and effort just to get into the lane and then go for a tough floater or contested layup. That's why, in my opinion, Tatum is not at a level yet where he can be an undisputed alpha for a contender. Maybe he will be one someday. I don't know. He's too reliant on jumpshots and especially tough ones. Yes, he makes those and he's pretty clutch, but his inability to penetrate efficiently (and draw fouls) might just hold him back.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1114 » by Jaqua92 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:54 pm

A better peak Paul George.

Speaking of Paul...I've read some pretty outlandish takes that Tatum right now is better than prime Paul Peirce.

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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1115 » by Fierce1 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:59 pm

Jaqua92 wrote:A better peak Paul George.

Speaking of Paul...I've read some pretty outlandish takes that Tatum right now is better than prime Paul Peirce.

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I'm the biggest Paul Pierce fan, but it's true that right now Jayson Tatum is already better than prime Paul Pierce.

Pierce was a 2nd tier superstar.

Jayson Tatum is a young superstar who will be a 1st tier superstar in a couple of seasons.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1116 » by Bleeding Green » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:18 pm

Yeah there is no shot Tatum is better than Pierce in '08 or his first all star season. He's better for his age, but not shot otherwise.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1117 » by Jaqua92 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:18 pm

Fierce1 wrote:
Jaqua92 wrote:A better peak Paul George.

Speaking of Paul...I've read some pretty outlandish takes that Tatum right now is better than prime Paul Peirce.

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I'm the biggest Paul Pierce fan, but it's true that right now Jayson Tatum is already better than prime Paul Pierce.

Pierce was a 2nd tier superstar.

Jayson Tatum is a young superstar who will be a 1st tier superstar in a couple of seasons.
This is absolutely insane man.

You're telling me you trust Tatum to win you games more than prime Peirce?

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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1118 » by Fierce1 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:22 pm

Jaqua92 wrote:This is absolutely insane man.

You're telling me you trust Tatum to win you games more than prime Peirce?

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The issue is who is the better player, not who wins more games.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1119 » by The Comedian » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:25 pm

Pierce would average an efficient 30 points in this era, with all the spacing and emphasis on threes.

I love Tatum and think he’s quite a bit ahead of Pierce at 22/23, but prime Pierce is one of the more underrated players ever.
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Re: What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling? 

Post#1120 » by Fierce1 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:29 pm

The Comedian wrote:Pierce would average an efficient 30 points in this era, with all the spacing and emphasis on threes.

I love Tatum and think he’s quite a bit ahead of Pierce at 22/23, but prime Pierce is one of the more underrated players ever.


Pierce is at a disadvantage when compared to Tatum.

Tatum's length just makes it easier for Jayson to get his shots off and he's just a better defender than Paul Pierce.

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