What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling?

[Homerclease]

Is current Tatum better than prime Paul Pierce?

Are you asking if Tatum has been as good in the 14 bubble games as Paul Pierce was for 15 years? Let's be excited about how Tatum has played without also slandering one of the top players in the history of the franchise. Looking at advanced stats Pierce's best seasons were better than Tatum's 19-20 season. Need to factor in the slower style of play, lack of emphasis on the 3pt shot, and the awful teams Pierce had around him until KG got here.

Paul Pierce today would be better than Tatum. Pierce put up great advanced stats in an era where that didn't happen much because of the style of play. Hero ball shouldn't lead to great advanced stats, the pace and space era should because coaches have figured out how to maximize efficiency.

Slander? I asked a question.

[Homerclease]

Is current Tatum better than prime Paul Pierce?

It's close. Tatum's defensive effort is more consistent. Pierce's rebounding effort was more consistent. Tatum being in Pierce's league as a pseuo-PG is so recent that I don't give him full credit for it.

Pierce bulled his way through double- and triple-teams more consistently than Tatum does or has to. That makes his uneven defensive effort also seem more excusable. So I'll still favor prime Pierce over current Tatum. But it's a lot closer than I expected it to be this soon.

In simplest terms, Pierce looked comparably good despite getting less help, and the difference in help matters.

This is where I’m at for the most part. I think Tatum is entering that level at age 22 which is absolutely incredible. I think peak truth was above where Tatum is right at this moment but that gap is shrinking rapidly.

[chrisab123]

Tatum's ceiling is probably slightly higher than Pierce simply because of his willingness to play defense at a younger age. Pierce was a great player and an excellent offensive talent but lets not sit here and pretend that he's going into the HOF for his defensive work.

[Homerclease]

Tatum's ceiling is probably slightly higher than Pierce simply because of his willingness to play defense at a younger age. Pierce was a great player and an excellent offensive talent but lets not sit here and pretend that he's going into the HOF for his defensive work.

I’m 35 years old and got to experience Pierces entire career here.

Tatums ceiling is far above Pierce. And that’s not a knock on the truth either.

[celtics543]

Is current Tatum better than prime Paul Pierce?

Are you asking if Tatum has been as good in the 14 bubble games as Paul Pierce was for 15 years? Let's be excited about how Tatum has played without also slandering one of the top players in the history of the franchise. Looking at advanced stats Pierce's best seasons were better than Tatum's 19-20 season. Need to factor in the slower style of play, lack of emphasis on the 3pt shot, and the awful teams Pierce had around him until KG got here.

Paul Pierce today would be better than Tatum. Pierce put up great advanced stats in an era where that didn't happen much because of the style of play. Hero ball shouldn't lead to great advanced stats, the pace and space era should because coaches have figured out how to maximize efficiency.

Slander? I asked a question.

Maybe slander was a bit strong but it drives me crazy when people start asking whether a guy who's played at a high level for less than a year is as good or better than a prime hall of famer.

[Homerclease]

Are you asking if Tatum has been as good in the 14 bubble games as Paul Pierce was for 15 years? Let's be excited about how Tatum has played without also slandering one of the top players in the history of the franchise. Looking at advanced stats Pierce's best seasons were better than Tatum's 19-20 season. Need to factor in the slower style of play, lack of emphasis on the 3pt shot, and the awful teams Pierce had around him until KG got here.

Paul Pierce today would be better than Tatum. Pierce put up great advanced stats in an era where that didn't happen much because of the style of play. Hero ball shouldn't lead to great advanced stats, the pace and space era should because coaches have figured out how to maximize efficiency.

Slander? I asked a question.

Maybe slander was a bit strong but it drives me crazy when people start asking whether a guy who's played at a high level for less than a year is as good or better than a prime hall of famer.

I’m comparing Tatums play post all star break to a prime pierce and asking if people think they are on a similar level. Isn’t that kinda the idea of these message board? To discuss topics related to the Celtics?

[celtics543]

Slander? I asked a question.

Maybe slander was a bit strong but it drives me crazy when people start asking whether a guy who's played at a high level for less than a year is as good or better than a prime hall of famer.

I’m comparing Tatums play post all star break to a prime pierce and asking if people think they are on a similar level. Isn’t that kinda the idea of these message board? To discuss topics related to the Celtics?

Sure, I'm just telling you I don't think the discussion is worth it. It's like when people were asking if Luka is better than *insert top 10 player of all time*

In my opinion it's too early to even have the conversation. But as you'll probably respond, I just shouldn't have bothered responding to the topic. I hope we can still ask this question in a couple years or even better if we're comparing him to Bird.

[24istheLAW]

Tatum through 6 playoff games:

27.2 PPG on 18.8 FGA (.624 TS%!), 9.3 REB, 3.0 AST. 1.8 TOV, 0.7 STL, 1.5 BLK.

He's gotten over the infatuation with tough shots - 3PAr of .381, and endless protestations for foul calls aside, hes's getting to the line at a star clip (.354 FTr).

[ConstableGeneva]

This is some freaky **** right here...

Read on Twitter

[ConstableGeneva]

Is current Tatum better than prime Paul Pierce?

Statistically, this postseason performance so far from Tatum (assured of at least 10 games) beats Pierce's best postseason (10 games) in every category other than steals, FT rate, and assists. Tatum is 22 in his 3rd season. Pierce was 25 in his 5th season.

Per 100 possessions:


Advanced stats:


Tatum has been more efficient and plays both sides of the ball at an elite level RIGHT NOW. Having said that, not even 10 Tackos stacked on top of each other can reach Tatum's ceiling at this point. He's still improving.

[Feed Your Head]

The bolded below is pretty damn impressive, against all the defensive attention he got.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

“They’re a great defensive team, so you can’t dance and play with the ball,” Tatum said. “They’ve got good defenders and they play great team defense, so you’ve just got to make quick decisions and play with some pace.”
Very rarely do players improve over the course of a single season like Tatum did this year. He jumped out of several inefficient habits, became one of the NBA’s best off-the-dribble 3-point shooters and kept on growing. He doesn’t have nearly as many rough moments these days, but the Raptors are the type of team to challenge whatever weaknesses he still has. They’re mean, tough and together. Tatum will feel their pressure all series.

He handled it all Tuesday. He scored a playoff career-high 34 points. He played all but 51 seconds after halftime. He assisted on Smart’s first three 3-pointers of the fourth quarter. The second assist in that sequence, a cross-court pass, took advantage of a Raptors adjustment. By taking away the corner 3-pointer, they were forcing the Celtics to make a more difficult read. Tatum hasn’t always made the right pass throughout his career, but he sees the court a tick or two more quickly these days

[playa-hater]

For the Luka - JT comparison discussed already.. I see how many people/posters put a BIG value on numbers. To which Luka>Tatum.. but that is/can be so deceiving.. Luka is an extremely High Usage player vs Tatum, who although Is Boston's top option and Go-to player, yet still has to share that ability with other former and current top options. In Kemba and Hayward and probably Brown whom is deserving as well. So numbers will Not necessarily tell me the whole story..

what I see, with my eyes is :

Luka is one of if NOT the best passer in the NBA right now... No one is better at getting "role players" open looks than Luka.. He makes his teammates better and that is NOT unrecognized and undervalued by me.. JT by comparison does NOT elevate roles player much. That is the one area JT must get better at, since they are/will double team him in crunch time.. Luka also has the very nice ability to stay under control and finish near the rim with layups and floaters.. more efficient than Tatum, though Tatum's athletic nature at tikes displays a higher ceiling on that regard.

But what Tatum has is a currently higher variety of Go to Moves, with a much more consistent 3 pointer, mid range pull ups, and FT pct.. Tatum also has shown, this entire year, a much better ability to rise up in crunch time and in Big games.. Before Luka hit his first Big 3 vs LAC, it should be reminded that his Step back 3 this entire season was a low pct shot that he missed often, I think a total of 0-10 in 1 possession games with under a minute to go..

all this with Tatum being a HUGE factor in why Boston has a top ranked defense (with Smart and Brown) all while the opposite can be said for Doncic.. Perimeter defense and switch-ability is everything in today's game.. So that alone will let Tatum have a big impact on the game even if he is off. Can not say the same for Luka.

Conclusion.. I don't have a problem with fans saying Luka>Tatum.. But I do wonder who many fans really take a close look at everything and not just the box-scores.. I am not trading Tatum for anyone but Giannis right now.

sorry for the long reply.. just trying to catch up..

I feel like Tatum is way ahead of where Giannis was at 22 y/o. Like Giannis he's also improved every season both with his game and physically. Giannis has now maxed out his body. Any upside will have to come from him improving his FT and 3 pt shot. But I just don't see it happening. And when you get in the playoffs and don't have these skills teams can game plan against you. Teams cannot contain Tatum right now. And he still has physical upside. Clearly it's not as high as Giannis due to Giannis being a legit 6'10", long and athletic. But there's still upside to be had. If Tatum puts on another 10-15 pounds of muscle he'll start finishing through and over guys when he penetrates. He will be the most polished offensive weapon in the game. And it'll make him a DPOY candidate. So DO you take Giannis over Tatum? The thing is, if Giannis was to become a 80% FT shooter and a 35% three point shooter he has a chance to be top 5 all-time. That's his max. Tatum maxed, with added size, better playmaking? Kobe. We have a good one folks. It'd be tough to trade him for even Giannis. I want him in green for his whole career like the other Celtics's greats.

good post!

[ConstableGeneva]

It me rewatching the 2nd half of game 2 -- seeing Tatum all calm and composed while he navigates through an elite defense for a score or assist...

[jfs1000d]

Tatum is going to be an mvp candidate. Just way too smooth a scorer and a two-way player.

I think top 5 is his ceiling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[3D Chess]

FMVP.

[Slax]

Tatum's ceiling is probably slightly higher than Pierce simply because of his willingness to play defense at a younger age. Pierce was a great player and an excellent offensive talent but lets not sit here and pretend that he's going into the HOF for his defensive work.

I’m 35 years old and got to experience Pierces entire career here.

Tatums ceiling is far above Pierce. And that’s not a knock on the truth either.

Yeah I don't mean this as a criticism of Pierce who is my favorite player of all time and was an unbelievable talent, but Tatum is already such a better outside shooter and defender than Pierce was at any point in his career that there's no way I would limit his ceiling to somewhere at or just above Pierce. This isn't to say that he will definitely end his career as a greater player than Pierce - potential is different from an actual body of work spanning over a decade and a half of quality play, and only a select bunch of great players have had careers that rival Pierce's. But a player with Tatum's mix of physical build, fitness, shooting, defense, shot creation, and rebounding at 22 years old has sky high potential.

[31to6]

Thank goodness for a summer playing under coach Pop for JT, Kemba, JB and Smart. And that they all listen to their coach (e.g. quotes from the Athletic above about not dancing with the ball).

Skyyyyys the limit man.

[Parliament10]

Tatum's ceiling is probably slightly higher than Pierce simply because of his willingness to play defense at a younger age. Pierce was a great player and an excellent offensive talent but lets not sit here and pretend that he's going into the HOF for his defensive work.

I’m 35 years old and got to experience Pierces entire career here.

Tatums ceiling is far above Pierce. And that’s not a knock on the truth either.

Yeah I don't mean this as a criticism of Pierce who is my favorite player of all time and was an unbelievable talent, but Tatum is already such a better outside shooter and defender than Pierce was at any point in his career that there's no way I would limit his ceiling to somewhere at or just above Pierce. This isn't to say that he will definitely end his career as a greater player than Pierce - potential is different from an actual body of work spanning over a decade and a half of quality play, and only a select bunch of great players have had careers that rival Pierce's. But a player with Tatum's mix of physical build, fitness, shooting, defense, shot creation, and rebounding at 22 years old has sky high potential.

Pierce made the All-Stars for the first time when he was 25, his 4th year in the league.
Tatum is well above where Pierce was at, at 22.

If Tatum stays the course, then Pierce is his floor.
IDK what his ceiling is.

[Parliament10]

Are you asking if Tatum has been as good in the 14 bubble games as Paul Pierce was for 15 years? Let's be excited about how Tatum has played without also slandering one of the top players in the history of the franchise. Looking at advanced stats Pierce's best seasons were better than Tatum's 19-20 season. Need to factor in the slower style of play, lack of emphasis on the 3pt shot, and the awful teams Pierce had around him until KG got here.

Paul Pierce today would be better than Tatum. Pierce put up great advanced stats in an era where that didn't happen much because of the style of play. Hero ball shouldn't lead to great advanced stats, the pace and space era should because coaches have figured out how to maximize efficiency.

Slander? I asked a question.

Maybe slander was a bit strong but it drives me crazy when people start asking whether a guy who's played at a high level for less than a year is as good or better than a prime hall of famer.

Pierce was a good player.
Bu as I said, Tatum is well above where Pierce was at, at 22.

Again, If Tatum stays the course, then Pierce is his floor.
IDK what his ceiling is.

[31to6]

Some interesting background on the drafting of Tatum: Danny called JB (not on draft night) to ask if they should take Josh Jackson or Tatum, and Jaylen said JT all the way:
https://www.si.com/nba/2020/09/01/celtics-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-relationship?fbclid=IwAR0kNAxZ8v4VqZlxoonXul5cmx2Khk4oGY0bCk2enDMhfa6gqoitudpS4DE