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What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling?

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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#421 » by Higgs Boston » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:46 am

Brown against Miami
40.8 minutes
23,2 PPG
9.2-16.5 55.5% 2P
2.8-5.7 52.5% 3P
2.0-2.8 64.2% FT
7.2 REB
2.8 AST
0.3 BLK
1.5 STL
2.3 TO

Certain star against certain celtics
38.3 minutes
19.0 PPG
6.3-14.7 43.4% 2P
0.3-2.0 11.1% 3P
6.0-7.0 85% FT
6.0 REB
5.0 AST
0.7 BLK
1.5 STL
1.8 TO
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#422 » by GrandTheftRondo » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:04 am

themoneyteam2 wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:If Jaylen played in any other system that doesn't result in him getting absolutely wide open threes. He'd be pretty useless. If there's anyone near him he's usually missing. He can't create for himself or others consistently because his handle is so suspect and he doesn't process information quickly enough. I'm not sure how this equates to me hating him. I just hate his game or lack thereof. He is a good finisher. But most of the finishes people on here do black flips over aren't high degree of difficulty. They're usually uncontested tbh. People are laughably excited about his 28 pt performance when it took 23 shots to get there, he played awful defense, and turned the ball over. When Hayward leaves and he becomes our 2nd best player we aren't going to be contending. As long as he's our 3rd best then we're golden. If he's our 4th we're screwed because he makes way too much money going forward to be a team's 4th best player. Stars in this league are guys who can initiate the offense. Guys who demand teammates to clear out because they're about to go to work. Guys teams have to double, not leave wide open like they do with Jaylen. Until he improves his handle dramatically he'll remain a great role player, not a star like so many on here believe.

When people on here stop being overwhelmingly hyperbolic about Jaylen Brown, I'll stop "hating"


Brown had 26 pts with only 2 3PA in game 3 but yeah you’re right he’d be pretty useless if he didn’t play in a system that doesn’t result in him getting wide open three pointers. Great analysis as usual, chief.

“ People are laughably excited about his 28 pt performance when it took 23 shots to get there”

You’re kidding right? In what world is it laughable to be excited about a player going 12-23 for 28 pts? Shooting over 50% from the field isn’t good anymore? Please say sike.

Well if you’re just looking for attention like you seem to be, you got your wish. I was truthfully waiting for this post to come up. Win or lose this was the most predictable post of the past 2 weeks and it made me laugh out loud. Thanks for the laugh! Never change, buddy. Never change.

The Brown haters are a bizarre bunch.

Brown has constantly exceeded expectations here and still has critics who say he can’t dribble, can’t shoot, can’t defend. It’s bizarre.

Okay maybe he won’t be Kobe. But he’s going to be a good player for a long time for Boston and a perfect second option next to Tatum. He busts his arse every night, he’s gotten better every year and people still don’t want to rate him.

I’d say he was the only one who stepped up in this series in the big moments for Boston.

Man it’s weird.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#423 » by FeedReed » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:40 pm

brown is the clear #1 to me on this team. he has the combo of athleticism/smarts/shooting/heart very rare to come by. if he had the usage rate tatum had it would be clear to many more people. i really think it’s backwards right now. it’s not brown who should be playing robin. for the c’s to win, tatum needs to take a step back and brown needs more possessions with the ball.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#424 » by GrandTheftRondo » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:00 pm

FeedReed wrote:brown is the clear #1 to me on this team. he has the combo of athleticism/smarts/shooting/heart very rare to come by. if he had the usage rate tatum had it would be clear to many more people. i really think it’s backwards right now. it’s not brown who should be playing robin. for the c’s to win, tatum needs to take a step back and brown needs more possessions with the ball.

I’m a big Brown fan but he simply doesn’t have the ball handling ability to be a number 1. He has improved but Tatum is so much smoother and natural handling the ball.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#425 » by FeedReed » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:07 pm

GrandTheftRondo wrote:
FeedReed wrote:brown is the clear #1 to me on this team. he has the combo of athleticism/smarts/shooting/heart very rare to come by. if he had the usage rate tatum had it would be clear to many more people. i really think it’s backwards right now. it’s not brown who should be playing robin. for the c’s to win, tatum needs to take a step back and brown needs more possessions with the ball.

I’m a big Brown fan but he simply doesn’t have the ball handling ability to be a number 1. He has improved but Tatum is so much smoother and natural handling the ball.


his handle has improved a lot. if it hadn’t, he wouldn’t be the best attacker on the team. he turns it over less than tatum does.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#426 » by GrandTheftRondo » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:12 pm

FeedReed wrote:
GrandTheftRondo wrote:
FeedReed wrote:brown is the clear #1 to me on this team. he has the combo of athleticism/smarts/shooting/heart very rare to come by. if he had the usage rate tatum had it would be clear to many more people. i really think it’s backwards right now. it’s not brown who should be playing robin. for the c’s to win, tatum needs to take a step back and brown needs more possessions with the ball.

I’m a big Brown fan but he simply doesn’t have the ball handling ability to be a number 1. He has improved but Tatum is so much smoother and natural handling the ball.


his handle has improved a lot. if it hadn’t, he wouldn’t be the best attacker on the team. he turns it over less than tatum does.

That’s hardly surprising considering that Brown is being assisted on most of his baskets and getting the ball off of movement whereas Tatum is being asked to create offence off the dribble.

Sorry but Tatum simply is on another level to Brown and will continue to be.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#427 » by The Comedian » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:18 pm

FeedReed wrote:
GrandTheftRondo wrote:
FeedReed wrote:brown is the clear #1 to me on this team. he has the combo of athleticism/smarts/shooting/heart very rare to come by. if he had the usage rate tatum had it would be clear to many more people. i really think it’s backwards right now. it’s not brown who should be playing robin. for the c’s to win, tatum needs to take a step back and brown needs more possessions with the ball.

I’m a big Brown fan but he simply doesn’t have the ball handling ability to be a number 1. He has improved but Tatum is so much smoother and natural handling the ball.


his handle has improved a lot. if it hadn’t, he wouldn’t be the best attacker on the team. he turns it over less than tatum does.


Jaylens turnover rate in the regular season was 11.2%, and 11.5% in the playoffs. His assist rate in the regular season was 9%, and 9.9% in the playoffs.

Tatums turnover rate in the regular season was
10.2%, and 11% in the playoffs. His assist rate in the regular season was 14.5%, and 21.3% in the playoffs.

Tatum has way more responsibility, and turns it over less.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#428 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:19 pm

FeedReed wrote:
GrandTheftRondo wrote:
FeedReed wrote:brown is the clear #1 to me on this team. he has the combo of athleticism/smarts/shooting/heart very rare to come by. if he had the usage rate tatum had it would be clear to many more people. i really think it’s backwards right now. it’s not brown who should be playing robin. for the c’s to win, tatum needs to take a step back and brown needs more possessions with the ball.

I’m a big Brown fan but he simply doesn’t have the ball handling ability to be a number 1. He has improved but Tatum is so much smoother and natural handling the ball.


his handle has improved a lot. if it hadn’t, he wouldn’t be the best attacker on the team. he turns it over less than tatum does.


This is a bad take. If the shot clock is ticking down and the play has broken down, Jaylen Brown is not the guy you want to have the ball in his hands. Jaylen does most of his damage in the open court, coming off screens and slashing, or spotting up for 3s. Shot creation is not his strong point.

Don't get me wrong - I love the kid, but Jayson Tatum is light years ahead in terms of creating his own shot. Even Brown himself would acknowledge this.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#429 » by The Comedian » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:57 pm

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
FeedReed wrote:
GrandTheftRondo wrote:I’m a big Brown fan but he simply doesn’t have the ball handling ability to be a number 1. He has improved but Tatum is so much smoother and natural handling the ball.


his handle has improved a lot. if it hadn’t, he wouldn’t be the best attacker on the team. he turns it over less than tatum does.


This is a bad take. If the shot clock is ticking down and the play has broken down, Jaylen Brown is not the guy you want to have the ball in his hands. Jaylen does most of his damage in the open court, coming off screens and slashing, or spotting up for 3s. Shot creation is not his strong point.

Don't get me wrong - I love the kid, but Jayson Tatum is light years ahead in terms of creating his own shot. Even Brown himself would acknowledge this.


Just to expand on this, in the regular season, 60% of Jaylens shot were assisted, and it jumped to 70% in the playoffs. 90% of his threes on the season were assisted as well. He played really well within the offense, almost to a fault, wish he had been a bit more aggressive.

But Tatum is a couple of levels ahead as a shot creator, or creating for others. In the regular season Tatum was assisted on 47% of his shots, and 46% in the playoffs. And only 56% of his threes were assisted for the season.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#430 » by GrandTheftRondo » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:02 pm

I’d still like to see Jaylen given some touches in a pick and roll type setting. Brad doesn’t seem to trust him but I think it would be worth a crack. Brown has explosion others on the team don’t. If he is brutal doing so then stop it. But I think it’s worth a shot.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#431 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:08 pm

GrandTheftRondo wrote:I’d still like to see Jaylen given some touches in a pick and roll type setting. Brad doesn’t seem to trust him but I think it would be worth a crack. Brown has explosion others on the team don’t. If he is brutal doing so then stop it. But I think it’s worth a shot.


As the roll man - sure. As the ballhandler - nope. I would just trap him if he tried calling for a pick. Doesn't have the ball handling or passing ability to consistently make teams pay
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#432 » by GrandTheftRondo » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:13 pm

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
GrandTheftRondo wrote:I’d still like to see Jaylen given some touches in a pick and roll type setting. Brad doesn’t seem to trust him but I think it would be worth a crack. Brown has explosion others on the team don’t. If he is brutal doing so then stop it. But I think it’s worth a shot.


As the roll man - sure. As the ballhandler - nope. I would just trap him if he tried calling for a pick. Doesn't have the ball handling or passing ability to consistently make teams pay

Off some motion receiving the ball and attacking fast, that sort of thing.

I don’t know. I’m a fan of his as I said. Might cloud my judgment a bit but I think he’s still got some untapped potential in playmaking and the only way it improves is with reps. Tatum wasn’t exactly very impressive in the past with his playmaking and improved as this season went on with reps. I’ve seen Brown throw some impressive passes that we wouldn’t expect from him.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#433 » by ParticleMan » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:15 pm

Brown's not a #1 but he doesn't have to be. he plays D, doesn't demand touches and does all the little things, he is a great complementary piece. his ballhandling and vision are still definitely behind tatum's but not as much as the previous years. both of these guys have a lot of room to improve.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#434 » by keevsnick1 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:18 pm

The Comedian wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
FeedReed wrote:
his handle has improved a lot. if it hadn’t, he wouldn’t be the best attacker on the team. he turns it over less than tatum does.


This is a bad take. If the shot clock is ticking down and the play has broken down, Jaylen Brown is not the guy you want to have the ball in his hands. Jaylen does most of his damage in the open court, coming off screens and slashing, or spotting up for 3s. Shot creation is not his strong point.

Don't get me wrong - I love the kid, but Jayson Tatum is light years ahead in terms of creating his own shot. Even Brown himself would acknowledge this.


Just to expand on this, in the regular season, 60% of Jaylens shot were assisted, and it jumped to 70% in the playoffs. 90% of his threes on the season were assisted as well. He played really well within the offense, almost to a fault, wish he had been a bit more aggressive.

But Tatum is a couple of levels ahead as a shot creator, or creating for others. In the regular season Tatum was assisted on 47% of his shots, and 46% in the playoffs. And only 56% of his threes were assisted for the season.


Ya how much of that is becasue Brown CAN'T create offense, vs that's just not what the Celtics have him do because they have Tatum, Kemba, Hayward, Smart ahead of him in the play initiation department?

I have no doubt Tatum is a better #1 option right now, I don't think its arguable frankly and i like Jaylen more than most. But one thing I would like to see next year is Jaylen get more reps as an initiator, especially in PnR situations. He's maxed out the offensive impact he can have off ball, Kemba and Hayward aren't getting younger (both will turn 31 next year) and the Celtics aren't going to have cap space any time soon to get another creator, so lets see if Jaylen can develop those skills. He has the first step, off dribble shooting ability to be good at it if his passing vision improves.

Its the next logical step in his development. He doesn't have to be elite at it, just good enough that he can do it against reserves/secondary defenders to give Tatum a break.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#435 » by The Comedian » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:19 pm

keevsnick1 wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
This is a bad take. If the shot clock is ticking down and the play has broken down, Jaylen Brown is not the guy you want to have the ball in his hands. Jaylen does most of his damage in the open court, coming off screens and slashing, or spotting up for 3s. Shot creation is not his strong point.

Don't get me wrong - I love the kid, but Jayson Tatum is light years ahead in terms of creating his own shot. Even Brown himself would acknowledge this.


Just to expand on this, in the regular season, 60% of Jaylens shot were assisted, and it jumped to 70% in the playoffs. 90% of his threes on the season were assisted as well. He played really well within the offense, almost to a fault, wish he had been a bit more aggressive.

But Tatum is a couple of levels ahead as a shot creator, or creating for others. In the regular season Tatum was assisted on 47% of his shots, and 46% in the playoffs. And only 56% of his threes were assisted for the season.


Ya how much of that is becasue Brown CAN'T create offense, vs that's just not what the Celtics have him do because they have Tatum, Kemba, Hayward, Smart ahead of him in the play initiation department?

I have no doubt Tatum is a better #1 option right now, I don't think its arguable frankly and i like Jaylen more than most. But one thing I would like to see next year is Jaylen get more reps as an initiator, especially in PnR situations. He's maxed out the offensive impact he can have off ball, Kemba and Hayward aren't getting younger (both will turn 31 next year) and the Celtics aren't going to have cap space any time soon to get another creator, so lets see if Jaylen can develop those skills. He has the first step, off dribble shooting ability to be good at it if his passing vision improves.

Its the next logical step in his development.


I agree 100%. I don’t think he will ever be an elite PnR guy, but I have no doubt he can be good enough to have it as a weapon. He showed some growth in the playoffs with it, still turns it over too much, but that’s part of the growing process.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#436 » by GameTime_3 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:45 pm

Outside view of this;

I personally think Brown is 1B or 1A instead of the 3rd option behind Tatum/Kemba that I felt Brad had him in this series. Every time he was a focal point of the offense, it seems we(HEAT) struggled. I kept telling everyone, I'm unsure why they dont use Brown more. Tatum is clearly more talented offensive player with his shooting but Brown to me, makes the game easier for everyone with his attacks and his timely shots. Brown has all star skill level with an offense that allows him to be the focal point more often.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#437 » by bucknersrevenge » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:46 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:
Memokerobi wrote:There’s no reason he can’t become at least as good as Jimmy Butler


he has a terrible handle and poor BBIQ. Two major flaws that are innate. There's some improvement to be had through hard work as far as his handle, and the game will slow down further the more experience he gets to aid his BBIQ, but only to a point. When you grow up playing basketball there are guys who are natural basketball players who dribble with their heads up, don't panic in traffic, and can initiate the offense. He's four years into his career and he still can't do these things. Herro is a rookie and does all of those things for the Heat at 20 y/o.

Jimmy Butler always had the BBIQ and handle. The only thing he didn't have was the shot, and he still doesn't from three. But he improved his shot from midrange to make him no longer be a liability. That, combined with his BBIQ, handle and defense allowed him to grow into an all-star. Jaylen is a much better shooter. Night and day difference. Which is why he's so good with wide open corner threes. But they have to be wide open. And even then he's streaky. Jaylen is also very distracted by off the court endeavors which will get in the way of him improving his game. Jimmy Butler was all about basketball. Jimmy Butler in his prime has basically been a 20-6-5 guy with better defense, both man and team, than Jaylen. People actually think Jaylen will suddenly become a 5 assist a game guy? With his handle and BBIQ? C'mon.

You people need to stop putting such high expectations and pressure on the kid to be something he isn't. I used to think maybe he could become Iggy 2.0 but even Iggy was getting 5-6 assists a game and igniting the offense so that wasn't fair to Jaylen. I'm telling you, he's Rudy Gay 2.0. with better defense. Not a top 40 player but still a very good player in who can help teams win as long as he's their 3rd best player.



Whoa. This reeks of "Shut up and dribble". Maybe that's not what you were goin for, but Jaylen has endured this critique his whole career and before he got drafted and it was rooted racial in stereotype then and it still is. You need to watch yourself now. This is starting to wade into territory beyond standard critique. This is becoming a crusade with you with serious undertones and it is not a good look. I absolutely will report any more of your posts that look like this bullsh*t. I don't care if you're not scared if you think I'm overreacting if you think I'm puffing out my chest for the sake of other posters. Go ahead and try me. I'm not playin.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#438 » by The Comedian » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:56 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:
Memokerobi wrote:There’s no reason he can’t become at least as good as Jimmy Butler


he has a terrible handle and poor BBIQ. Two major flaws that are innate. There's some improvement to be had through hard work as far as his handle, and the game will slow down further the more experience he gets to aid his BBIQ, but only to a point. When you grow up playing basketball there are guys who are natural basketball players who dribble with their heads up, don't panic in traffic, and can initiate the offense. He's four years into his career and he still can't do these things. Herro is a rookie and does all of those things for the Heat at 20 y/o.

Jimmy Butler always had the BBIQ and handle. The only thing he didn't have was the shot, and he still doesn't from three. But he improved his shot from midrange to make him no longer be a liability. That, combined with his BBIQ, handle and defense allowed him to grow into an all-star. Jaylen is a much better shooter. Night and day difference. Which is why he's so good with wide open corner threes. But they have to be wide open. And even then he's streaky. Jaylen is also very distracted by off the court endeavors which will get in the way of him improving his game. Jimmy Butler was all about basketball. Jimmy Butler in his prime has basically been a 20-6-5 guy with better defense, both man and team, than Jaylen. People actually think Jaylen will suddenly become a 5 assist a game guy? With his handle and BBIQ? C'mon.

You people need to stop putting such high expectations and pressure on the kid to be something he isn't. I used to think maybe he could become Iggy 2.0 but even Iggy was getting 5-6 assists a game and igniting the offense so that wasn't fair to Jaylen. I'm telling you, he's Rudy Gay 2.0. with better defense. Not a top 40 player but still a very good player in who can help teams win as long as he's their 3rd best player.



Whoa. This reeks of "Shut up and dribble". Maybe that's not what you were goin for, but Jaylen has endured this critique his whole career and before he got drafted and it was rooted racial stereotype then and it still is. You need to watch yourself now. This is starting to wade into territory beyond standard critique. This is becoming a crusade with you with serious undertones and it is not a good look. I absolutely will report any more of your posts that look like this bullsh*t. I don't care if you're not scared if you think I'm overreacting if you think I'm puffing out my chest for the sake of other posters. Go ahead and try me. I'm not playin.


This seems like as good a time as any to get this off my chest. I don’t know if the quoted poster above meant it that way, so this isn’t really in response to that. However, there have been far too many posts with racial undertones about Jaylen the last couple of months. You want to bash him as a player? Go ahead, there’s plenty of us who aren’t as high on him as some other posters, without turning it into off court stuff.

But as far as the posts such as calling him a Malcolm X cosplayer, or anything of the like will NOT be tolerated. I’m not going to speak for the other mods, but if I see any posts like that, it’s an immediate 12 hour ban.

Be better people.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#439 » by TommyPointGawd » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:54 pm

I think his next step is adding the P&R to his game. I don't expect him to be Luka dissecting defenses, but a simple tool to get to the bucket without having to beat his man one on one. I really don't understand how some people think because he currently isn't great at something that it will remain that way forever. Beginning of this season people didn't think he was capable of doing what he is doing now. Same goes for Tatum. Imagine if you saw the boxscore from this series two years ago.

I think he needs to be way more involved and giving more responsibility. But he still has a lot to work on. I'm really happy with his development so far.
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Re: What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling? 

Post#440 » by MagicBagley18 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:58 pm

GrandTheftRondo wrote:
FeedReed wrote:
GrandTheftRondo wrote:I’m a big Brown fan but he simply doesn’t have the ball handling ability to be a number 1. He has improved but Tatum is so much smoother and natural handling the ball.


his handle has improved a lot. if it hadn’t, he wouldn’t be the best attacker on the team. he turns it over less than tatum does.

That’s hardly surprising considering that Brown is being assisted on most of his baskets and getting the ball off of movement whereas Tatum is being asked to create offence off the dribble.

Sorry but Tatum simply is on another level to Brown and will continue to be.


And it’s not even particularly close

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