What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling?

Post #61 » by **bisme37** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:58 pm

Ima raise y'all's top 20-25 and say JB can be top 15 at his peak. Kid works hard.

zoyathedestroya · Post #62 » by **zoyathedestroya** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:02 pm

Underrated part of his partnership with Tatum -- he usually takes on the bigger, stronger opposition in the post. Allows Tatum to roam and become more of a weakside/help defender. Also allows Tatum to conserve his energy for the offensive end more. Which works too, since Jaylen is better at onball defense esp against bigs.

While I think at times people overrate him as a defender (like I've seen people put him as an All-NBA defender or a few think of him as better than Smart), of the current 28 20-point scorers, less than half are also known for their defense. At a still young age, that has to count for something. Usually, young guys only care about one end of the floor.

Post #63 » by **Parliament10** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:03 pm

Jaylen will Fire it Up.
(Top 20-25)

Jayson will Ice it Down.
(Top 3-5)

vct33 · Post #64 » by **vct33** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:38 pm

Absolute ceiling is Dominique-ish. Similar build and athleticism. Nique had a pretty loose handle and wasn’t much of a playmaker. Jaylen needs to continue to get better at finishing at the rim.

ThumbsUpBaby · Post #65 » by **ThumbsUpBaby** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:38 pm

Top 25 seems reasonable to me. Still an All-Star player and will probably be in the All-NBA 3rd team here and there.

Fencer reregistered · Post #66 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:36 pm

100proof wrote:a top 20 player and a top 10 player on the same team is crazy.

Celtic pairs of that kind arguably include:

Garnett/Pierce
*Bird/McHale
*Bird/Parish
Bird/Archibald
*Cowens/Havlicek

*I think these pairs each had a year in which they were both top 5 in MVP voting.

And in the Russell era, ALL of the following were at some point top 10:
Russell
Havlicek
Sam Jones
Heinsohn
Sharman
Cousy

I think the only one of those guys who never had a top-5 finish in MVP voting was Heinsohn, and he had five straight years in which he was top-10 in MVP voting, 2nd-team all-NBA, or both.

Fencer reregistered · Post #67 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:36 pm

vct33 wrote:Absolute ceiling is Dominique-ish. Similar build and athleticism. Nique had a pretty loose handle and wasn’t much of a playmaker. Jaylen needs to continue to get better at finishing at the rim.

What advantages did Nique have on offense to make up for Brown's superior defense?

Fencer reregistered · Post #68 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:39 pm

I think Brown's ceiling is around Klay Thompson's impact: Not as good at catch-and-shoot, where Thompson is GOATish, but very good. Somewhat better at other scoring. Somewhat better at defense (at least as good as Klay at what Klay is good at, plus better against bigs).

Ben-N1ce · Post #69 » by **Ben-N1ce** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:06 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:I think Brown's ceiling is around Klay Thompson's impact: Not as good at catch-and-shoot, where Thompson is GOATish, but very good. Somewhat better at other scoring. Somewhat better at defense (at least as good as Klay at what Klay is good at, plus better against bigs).

I don't think Jaylen is as good of a defender as Klay at all.

Post #70 » by **djFan71** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:12 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:
vct33 wrote:Absolute ceiling is Dominique-ish. Similar build and athleticism. Nique had a pretty loose handle and wasn’t much of a playmaker. Jaylen needs to continue to get better at finishing at the rim.

What advantages did Nique have on offense to make up for Brown's superior defense?

Nique did it consistently for years as the #1 threat opposing teams schemed to stop. Brown benefits from being a 3rd concern. He's done a great job exploiting the heck out of that in a super-efficient way. But, I don't see him having the full creativity of a Wilkins. It's a good absolute ceiling comp, but I don't see him reaching it.

I think being a great 3rd scorer, with defensive versatility is his wheelhouse. If he continues to improve dramatically, he could bust past that. But, I don't ever see #1 scorer, personally.

BostonCouchGM · Post #71 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:28 am

He’s around top 50 now. I don’t think there’s much movement upwards but if there is it’s minimal.

Players all as good or better. Stop being homers. It’s embarrassing that anyone could claim he’s top 40 let alone 20-25 now

Trae
Collins
Tatum
Kemba
Hayward
Smart
Kyrie
KD
Love
Drummond
Jokic
MPJ
Murray
Steph
Klay
Draymond
Wiggins
Harden
Westbrook
Oladipo
Sabonis
George
Kawhi
Williams
Lebron
AD
Butler
Adebayo
KAT
Holiday
Ingram
Zion
Ball
Isaac
Vucevic
Gordon
McCollum
Lillard
Simmons
Embid
Harris
Fox
Bagley
Hield
DeRozan
Aldridge
Mitchell
Beal
Wall
Giannis
Middleton
Ayton
Booker
KP
Doncic
Lowry
Siakam
Valanciunas

Edit: forgot LaVine and Markkanen

floyd · Post #72 » by **floyd** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:33 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:He’s around top 50 now. I don’t think there’s much movement upwards but if there is it’s minimal.

Players all as good or better. Stop being homers. It’s embarrassing that anyone could claim he’s top 40 let alone 20-25 now

Trae
Collins
Tatum
Kemba
Hayward
Smart
Kyrie
KD
Love
Drummond
Jokic
MPJ
Murray
Steph
Klay
Draymond
Wiggins
Harden
Westbrook
Oladipo
Sabonis
George
Kawhi
Williams
Lebron
AD
Butler
Adebayo
KAT
Holiday
Ingram
Zion
Ball
Isaac
Vucevic
Gordon
McCollum
Lillard
Simmons
Embid
Harris
Fox
Bagley
Hield
DeRozan
Aldridge
Mitchell
Beal
Wall
Giannis
Middleton
Ayton
Booker
KP
Doncic
Lowry
Siakam
Valanciunas

John Wall? Do you even follow the NBA?

BostonCouchGM · Post #73 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:36 am

100proof wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:Top 20-25 fringe all star on his best years.

a top 20 player is not a fringe allstar

He was a fringe allstar this season. If it wasnt for Kemba and Tatum he could have been an allstar, couldnt have 3 players in on the same team,

He wasn’t one of the top 15 players in an Eastern Conference that lost Kawhi and had four all stars injured (Kyrie, KD, Wall, Oladipo). He’s a borderline top 20 player in the weaker Eastern Conference. He might not be a top 30 player in the much stronger Western Conference. Which objectively makes him a borderline top 50 player

Fencer reregistered · Post #74 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:37 am

What's embarrassing is you putting some of the weaker players on that list ahead of Brown, especially the ones who play a similar position, such as Wiggins or Gordon.

You're also wrong about a bunch of bigs, like Drummond and Love, but that's not quite as awful a kind of error. Ditto PGs like Ball.

BostonCouchGM wrote:He’s around top 50 now. I don’t think there’s much movement upwards but if there is it’s minimal.

Players all as good or better. Stop being homers. It’s embarrassing that anyone could claim he’s top 40 let alone 20-25 now

Trae
Collins
Tatum
Kemba
Hayward
Smart
Kyrie
KD
Love
Drummond
Jokic
MPJ
Murray
Steph
Klay
Draymond
Wiggins
Harden
Westbrook
Oladipo
Sabonis
George
Kawhi
Williams
Lebron
AD
Butler
Adebayo
KAT
Holiday
Ingram
Zion
Ball
Isaac
Vucevic
Gordon
McCollum
Lillard
Simmons
Embid
Harris
Fox
Bagley
Hield
DeRozan
Aldridge
Mitchell
Beal
Wall
Giannis
Middleton
Ayton
Booker
KP
Doncic
Lowry
Siakam
Valanciunas

MagicBagley18 · Post #75 » by **MagicBagley18** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:38 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:
100proof wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:Top 20-25 fringe all star on his best years.

a top 20 player is not a fringe allstar

He was a fringe allstar this season. If it wasnt for Kemba and Tatum he could have been an allstar, couldnt have 3 players in on the same team,

He wasn’t one of the top 15 players in an Eastern Conference that lost Kawhi and had four all stars injured (Kyrie, KD, Wall, Oladipo). He’s a borderline top 20 player in the weaker Eastern Conference. He might not be a top 30 player in the much stronger Western Conference. Which objectively makes him a borderline top 50 player

And your not a top 10,000 poster. Get lost

BostonCouchGM · Post #76 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:40 am

floyd wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:He’s around top 50 now. I don’t think there’s much movement upwards but if there is it’s minimal.

Players all as good or better. Stop being homers. It’s embarrassing that anyone could claim he’s top 40 let alone 20-25 now

Trae
Collins
Tatum
Kemba
Hayward
Smart
Kyrie
KD
Love
Drummond
Jokic
MPJ
Murray
Steph
Klay
Draymond
Wiggins
Harden
Westbrook
Oladipo
Sabonis
George
Kawhi
Williams
Lebron
AD
Butler
Adebayo
KAT
Holiday
Ingram
Zion
Ball
Isaac
Vucevic
Gordon
McCollum
Lillard
Simmons
Embid
Harris
Fox
Bagley
Hield
DeRozan
Aldridge
Mitchell
Beal
Wall
Giannis
Middleton
Ayton
Booker
KP
Doncic
Lowry
Siakam
Valanciunas

John Wall? Do you even follow the NBA?[/quote

Imagine forgetting John Wall is a perennial all star player much better than Jaylen Brown because Wall is currently injured just because you’re a biased Celtics fan

Tatumfor2 · Post #77 » by **Tatumfor2** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:41 am

I may be a homer with green goggles on, but I think he still gets undersold here. He's still on his rookie contract as the 3rd or 4th best player on a contender. Next year his big contract kicks in and even as things stand now he's on the cusp of being worth it. Are people thinking he won't improve any more? He could easily be our second-best player next year.

Anyway, this is about ceilings. Second-best player on a contender! 8-)

floyd · Post #78 » by **floyd** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:46 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:
floyd wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:He’s around top 50 now. I don’t think there’s much movement upwards but if there is it’s minimal.

Players all as good or better. Stop being homers. It’s embarrassing that anyone could claim he’s top 40 let alone 20-25 now

Trae
Collins
Tatum
Kemba
Hayward
Smart
Kyrie
KD
Love
Drummond
Jokic
MPJ
Murray
Steph
Klay
Draymond
Wiggins
Harden
Westbrook
Oladipo
Sabonis
George
Kawhi
Williams
Lebron
AD
Butler
Adebayo
KAT
Holiday
Ingram
Zion
Ball
Isaac
Vucevic
Gordon
McCollum
Lillard
Simmons
Embid
Harris
Fox
Bagley
Hield
DeRozan
Aldridge
Mitchell
Beal
Wall
Giannis
Middleton
Ayton
Booker
KP
Doncic
Lowry
Siakam
Valanciunas

John Wall? Do you even follow the NBA?[/quote

Imagine forgetting John Wall is a perennial all star player much better than Jaylen Brown because Wall is currently injured just because you’re a biased Celtics fan

I did not actually argue your premise, but including a guy that may never play again on your list doesn’t really strengthen your argument. It makes you look like someone that is just trolling - as does accusing someone of “green goggles” for pointing it out.

yeahM8 · Post #79 » by **yeahM8** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:48 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:
floyd wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:He’s around top 50 now. I don’t think there’s much movement upwards but if there is it’s minimal.

Players all as good or better. Stop being homers. It’s embarrassing that anyone could claim he’s top 40 let alone 20-25 now

Trae
Collins
Tatum
Kemba
Hayward
Smart
Kyrie
KD
Love
Drummond
Jokic
MPJ
Murray
Steph
Klay
Draymond
Wiggins
Harden
Westbrook
Oladipo
Sabonis
George
Kawhi
Williams
Lebron
AD
Butler
Adebayo
KAT
Holiday
Ingram
Zion
Ball
Isaac
Vucevic
Gordon
McCollum
Lillard
Simmons
Embid
Harris
Fox
Bagley
Hield
DeRozan
Aldridge
Mitchell
Beal
Wall
Giannis
Middleton
Ayton
Booker
KP
Doncic
Lowry
Siakam
Valanciunas

John Wall? Do you even follow the NBA?[/quote

Imagine forgetting John Wall is a perennial all star player much better than Jaylen Brown because Wall is currently injured just because you’re a biased Celtics fan

I agree here, imagine forgetting Kevin Garnett Paul pierce I mean even iverson just because they’re retired.

cloverleaf · Post #80 » by **cloverleaf** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:00 am

vct33 wrote:Absolute ceiling is Dominique-ish. Similar build and athleticism. Nique had a pretty loose handle and wasn’t much of a playmaker. Jaylen needs to continue to get better at finishing at the rim.

Yes, he reminds me in some ways of Nique. I hope he is a superior defender and also a more complementary playmaker.

He's made some strides in both these areas, but there is still room for improvement. It is not accidental that JT is +12 in on/off/100 while JB is -2.3--despite their spending so much time on the court together.