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Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1441 » by FlatearthZorro » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:21 pm

ddb wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:Btw, when it comes to Corona, it's been pretty bad in Bulgaria as well. People were barely doing most of the things the government advised- distancing, masks, etc. Now we have a semi lockdown.

Funny thing- my grandma got Covid, my mom contracted it from her, I live with my mom, it's been 2 weeks and I haven't gotten it(I was also in contact with my grandma to help change her air-conditioner at the time)- no symptoms, nothing, literally.


prayers to you and your family. hopefully, everything is okay. I'm sure it will be okay. It's flu season after all. Millions of people get sick every year at flu season. although the flu has sorta vanished. covid must have ate it.


Yea, so far so good I guess, but weird thing is both my mom and grandma(I'm in my hometown cause of home office) had the symptos and both tested positive(PCR tests). Both had muscle pain, headache, cough, they lost taste and can't smell a thing. I live with my mom and I didn't get anything(at all, even slight cold symptoms), kidna odd. It's been a while, my grandma already kinda recovered, and my mom is on her way.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1442 » by SmartWentCrazy » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:26 pm

ddb wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
ddb wrote:
well how do you think it starts? what happens when people can't get on an airplane because they didn't believe in getting vaccinated? Who's going to be the ones being looked at as lesser humans. "non compliant" humans. you have it all backwards my friend


It happens because people like you say they dont give a flying **** about others


well you don't know me very well. you Just casually throwing out that I don't care about others when you have no clue who I am, what I do, or how I treat others is ridiculous. I care deeply about others. Again, it's already working.....people like you think people like me are "bad" "conspiracist" "careless" etc because I don't feel exactly how you feel about a very important topic in our country and world. you are being taught/brainwashed into feeling that way. I believe that differently. In fact, I feel like I care about you more then our government does. The same government/media that used physicians to promote cigaret smoking and fooled the masses into thinking there was nothing wrong with it. I mean there are so many examples of this in our history that we could start a whole new thread about it.
are you educated about vaccines? because I'm married to someone that was a registered nurse for many years and pro-vaccines until she started seeing all sorts of vaccine injuries occurring and along with many physicians and other medical professionals found and proved many common themes that have direct ties to certain vaccinations. so if you want to go down that rabbit hole with me I can educate you there and spew off hundreds of facts that our media doesn't want to promote.


don't mean to sound incredibly insensitive, but that's not the other 58%'s problem.


You said it all. Why should you care about others. I put no words in your mouth.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1443 » by theman » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:30 pm

ddb wrote:
well as a history teacher you should be pretty ticked off that the latest stimulus bill is sending 700,000,000 to Sudan, 25 million for genders studies in Pakistan, etc, etc and hard working American citizens like yourself who educate our children will see $600.


Maybe that is why it took so long to pass. That, and they didn't want to give Trump a win. He should veto it, and say take all that crap out. But, he won't; he is not that anti-swamp.

But you have to ask:
1) Who lobbied for that?
2) Who said "okay I will request that"?
3) What are the other members of Congress getting in return that they agreed with it.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1444 » by djFan71 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:31 pm

ddb wrote:
The Comedian wrote:Wearing a mask and getting vaccinated= having freedom stripped away? That’s entitled garbage, sorry.

Wearing a mask is a minuscule sacrifice, and that comes from someone who has to wear one 9 hours a day, 6 days a week.


why do we keep going back to the mask thing? I could care less if you want to wear a mask or if anyone I'm with wants to wear a mask. Go for it if it makes you feel better. I'm just saying that you can't force me to wear one. I'm also saying that masks aren't very effective for an airborne virus that some studies are now saying can be passed through airducts.

To be very, very clear. I do not have anything agains anyone wearing a mask or taking a vaccine. I'm just saying I'm not wearing a mask and I'm not taking a vaccine. And I'm not the one spreading coronavirus despite what they will tell you. it's a virus. it's going to spread regardless of what people do. the majority the people in the world are going to get it. It's out. Don't be mad at me. be mad at where it came from.
and if you do have a problem with me not getting a vaccine and not wearing a mask, well then I guess I'll be dead soon, right?

People go back to it, because it's a simple thing to do and it does help prevent spreading the virus. You can argue over how effective it is in reducing transmission, but common sense tells you it will stop your breath/coughs/sneezes from travelling as far as if you weren't wearing one. Which gives it less opportunity to infect others. Every reduction in spread risk helps. That's all.

People wouldn't really care if you don't want to wear one and risk dying. That's fine - if that was the only issue. But you not wearing a mask increases your chance of unknowingly spreading the virus to someone else who might not want to make that same choice. Before you tell them to just stay home, everyone has valid reasons to have to go out into society even if they don't want to - at a minimum to grocery shop.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1445 » by theman » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:42 pm

canman1971 wrote:Oh, as a history teacher I'm pretty much ticked off about almost every bill that our government passes. I've never understood the acceptance of pork on a bill.


Is it time to give the President the line item veto? Or at least repeal Title X of the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974?
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1446 » by Wes-J » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:15 pm

This is all so ****** sad. Hate the way this virus has been politicized from both sides, the government don't give a flying **** about any of us. It's about who stands to benefit from this. No different from a good ole fashion war to instill fear and control the masses.

Covid is just a symptom not the root issue of a larger problem. The solution lies within our own bodies but the government doesn't want to promote that because there's no real money in it.

**** me are the Celtics playing yet???
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1447 » by captain green » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:48 pm

I opened a can of worms I guess still hope you are all safe .
We always talk about there’s A-to-Z… really, there’s A-to-G or -E,’” Ainge told Celtics.com of a team’s typical offseason agenda. “This year, there’s definitely A-to-Z.” : danny ainge
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1448 » by theman » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:23 am

canman1971 wrote:Oh, as a history teacher I'm pretty much ticked off about almost every bill that our government passes. I've never understood the acceptance of pork on a bill.


'To suppress free speech is a double wrong. It violates the rights of the hearer as well as those of the speaker.' - Fredrick Douglas

"You can't be afraid of words that speak the truth, even if it's an unpleasant truth." - George Carlin
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1449 » by floyd » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:57 am

Well this thread went to ****.

Just chiming in to mention my company worked on the Moderna vaccine (one of many I’m sure). Yay science!

Some of the news might be fake and the politicians are full of **** but science is real.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1450 » by Kemba For Three » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:11 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:Been pretty civil for the most part. A testament to how nice a guy ddb is on other matters that he can slam New England on a Boston Celtics message board and not get much blowback at all beyond my tepid snark, lol.

After reading the last several pages, ddb is nonexistent to me now. :nod:
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1451 » by Captain_Caveman » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:01 am

ddb wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
captain green wrote:Quick question? Has anyone other than the one I know of had covid? Has anyone lost anyone to covid? Here in Indiana I personally have not heard of anyone I know that has had it or past on.
Just trying to get a pulse on actual known covid Kevin bacon style. I mean I'm super surprised that I don't or even heard of anyone. I've been to 48 state and 14 countries and no a lot of people so way surprised about it especially after reviewing the numbers. Hope all your friends and family stay safe and enjoy the holidays.


No one in my direct family but yes, multiple people I know died from the disease.

People live in bubbles, and despite the internet, people arent aware of much that goes on beyond their bubble. You live in one, and your blessed to not know anyone who passed or has suffered from the disease.


I'm sorry to hear about your losses. Could you share a little more information on the health condition, age, type of shape the people who passed were in? I'm not trying to twist this in any such way. I am interested to hear more about whether or not they had pre-existing health conditions, smoked, were obese, asthma etc.


As if those people are worthless or deserved to die somehow? Maybe this thread needs to die, just saying.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1452 » by Captain_Caveman » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:04 am

greenroom31 wrote:
ddb wrote:I remember being in history class and feeling blown away at how it took so long for the Nazi's to be stopped. I remember thinking, how come the jews gave up their guns, and their gold, and their freedoms?? why didn't they fight back? Now I get why. We live in a country of sheep. a world of sheep really.


Are you **** kidding me?? This is outrageously offensive. Is it really acceptable message board posting to call Jewish people cowardly sheep and victim-blame them for the Nazis??

Get the **** out of here with this **** -- you're on my ignore list now, but you really shouldn't be allowed to spread the bull you're pushing on here in the name of alleged "freedom".


1000%.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1453 » by LarryBirdsFingr » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:05 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
ddb wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
No one in my direct family but yes, multiple people I know died from the disease.

People live in bubbles, and despite the internet, people arent aware of much that goes on beyond their bubble. You live in one, and your blessed to not know anyone who passed or has suffered from the disease.


I'm sorry to hear about your losses. Could you share a little more information on the health condition, age, type of shape the people who passed were in? I'm not trying to twist this in any such way. I am interested to hear more about whether or not they had pre-existing health conditions, smoked, were obese, asthma etc.


As if those people are worthless or deserved to die somehow? Maybe this thread needs to die, just saying.


This thread is why our country is ****. Too many whack jobs not listening to science.
I don't believe in statistics. There are too many factors that can't be measured. You can't measure a ballplayer's heart. -Red Auerbach

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1454 » by Captain_Caveman » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:12 am

I'll just leave this here:

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1455 » by Captain_Caveman » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:16 am

Thoughts from a smart friend on the vaccine aspect of stuff:

(1) we need to get some terms defined:
protective or clinical immunity --> this is preventing you from getting sick ... this is where the vaccines showed 95% efficacy (the trial endpoint was infection + symptoms ... so if you had infection but no symptoms, you were still counted in the win column) ... the question of could you get infection but no symptoms wasn't directly studied, though Moderna study had very suggestive data (more on that in a second) (2) sterilizing immunity --> this is preventing you from getting infected at all ... as mentioned, this was not directly studied ... BUT there is AMPLE evidence that the vaccines WILL prevent infections and transmissions to at least a moderate degree: - Moderna did a smart thing and they swabbed everybody at the time they administered the 2nd vaccine and there were ~60% fewer asymptomatic infections in vaccinated individuals (3% vs 1% or something in that ballpark)... and that is after the first dose, very likely even better after 2nd dose - AZ/Ox studied asymptomatic infections in one of their studies and found about ~65% sterilizing immunity - Animal studies showed some degree (though not 100%) of sterilizing immunity ... and SIGNIFICANTLY reduced viral shedding which would imply dramatically reduced transmissibility (more on that below) - Thus, data that there will be significant sterilizing immunity exists ... but likely not at a 95% level - data seem to be converging around the 60-70% level

(3) reduced transmissibility --> this is, even if you are asymptomatically infected, you will be much less infectious - so it isn't full sterilizing immunity, but you will be asymptomatic, and you will have much lower viral loads / viral shedding - so when you talk, cough, sneeze etc you are putting out way way way less virus ... this was seen very clearly in the animal data and is also kind of a "first principles" thing (4) in sum - the best guess consensus right now is something like: 95% clinical immunity 60-70% sterilizing immunity ~75% of people will have dramatically reduced transmission (either due to sterilizing immunity or get infected but way lower viral shedding) but this will likely be a continuum we will learn more i'm sure about how these numbers exactly shake out, but this is the ballpark to expect THAT IS REALLY REALLY GOOD. It is a myth that all vaccines provide 100% sterilizing immunity - this just doesn't always happen. We could have EASILY been in influenza world, where all you get is 50% clinical immunity - anyone poo poo'ing this vaccines efficacy is just so off-base - this is far better than any expert would have hoped - also, it is very cray cray to say "this isn't really a vaccine" lol - you can say "this didn't turn out to be a magical 100% sterilizing efficacy vaccine" - ok, sure ... this is far better than experts were thinking we'd get (if i get to it i'll post a good review article summarizing all vaccines: it is a myth that all vaccines provide 100% sterilizing immunity - some do, many don't - many provide some sterilizing immunity but not total, etc. etc. - this is all very normal vaccine stuff)

now, it is totally true that the messaging has been bad and that 60-75% is not 100% --> therefore, it is absolutely right to say "nothing really changes until 70% of people get vaccinated (or prior infected) and case rates get really small" --> wear masks, socially distance, increase air ventilation, crowds and indoor activities should be curtailed ... this is until a sizable % of pop has immunity and/or case levels drop ... because yes, some (probably not most) vaccinated people will still be able to transmit the virus - and yes, the messaging on this has been bad - people following this closely have known this was likely to be the case honestly since april based on the animal data ... but yeah, overall education has been not great, but c'mon: we've only actually been vaccinating people for like a **** week lol - and we have no functioning federal government - give it a little time, we'll get the message out [side note: this is where we can also make a quantum leap forward with at-home, cheap rapid antigen testing - the technology exists for $5 at home 15 minute antigen testing with very good sensitivity/specificity - now, if you've had the vaccine and have a negative test, you are basically 100% home free ... almost all experts say these tests should have been deployed at scale months ago - and Biden has signaled this will be a priority (why we don't have this yet is very interested but is a whole other thread) ... so i think if we add mass scale at home rapid testing, (plusl normal spring ebbing) we could get back to very close to normal by april/may]

(5A) scary mutations ... a few initial points: mutations happen all the time with all life - this is normal ... small mutations in viruses = variants, larger & growing in prevalence = family/clade .... even larger = strain ... (5B) evidence exists, though it is not conclusive, that some of the new variant families do have higher transmission ... there is no evidence that it has higher mortality and no evidence that the vaccines won't work against these variants... in fact ... (5C) there is good data that the vaccines WILL work against these variants - pfizer has said they are currently testing against this variant but they have tested against 22 other variants and it has worked against all ... Eli Lilly said their monoclonals work against this variant as well ... there is also ample 3D structural biology that says that the antibodies produced by these vaccines will be able to bind to a large range of spike protein mutations ... and if the spike protein mutated to evade the antibodies, there is a good chance they will have a much harder time infected cells via ACE2 (5D) it is not impossible however - spike will probably over time see 'antigenic drift' and COULD mutate such that vaccines would have lower efficacy ... so it is very likely that we will have to make new versions of this vaccine over time ... this isn't for sure: it is possible that this vaccine will be very efficacious against all spike mutants - we just don't know ... but in the scenario where there is significant antigenic drift, it will not be that hard to make a tweaked version every couple years (mRNA platform will make this pretty easy)

(5E) so in summary on this: yes it is concerning, yes it bears close study (which is happening), but there is no need to freak out - the vaccine will almost certainly be very very effective for almost all people in 2021 ... but i don't want to be fully a pollyanna here - this bears close watching for sure

(6) quick bullet on safety .. this vaccine is very **** safe lol ... most significant side-effects in vaccines are seen within 1-2 months after administration - i don't exactly know why but i've seen that quote from 10 experts .. and we've seen NOTHING so far ... it has common mild adverse events, about twice as bad as flu vaccine and on par with shingles vaccine ... but it is pussy stuff to worry about that .... also the allergic reactions have been self-limiting (i.e. they are treatable and go away) ... unlike flu, definitely wait 15-30 minutes before you leave after the shot ... is it possible there will be some 1 in 100,000 rare side effects that could come out? yes, absolutely ... but this is in "struck by lightning odds" territory, and far far better odds than COVID - without vaccine, eventually 70% of people will get COVID, 0.5% of those will die, and some significant % will have significant long term morbidity ... no brainer

(7) there is very little doubt among experts that that the combination of natural immunity + vaccines (plus normal reduced transmission in spring/summer, plus better mask messaging, plus hopefully wide-spread rapid antigen testing) will bring us back to near-normal somewhere between april and november, with most guesses may-august ... we will be near 100M natural infections around march/april ... and if we vaccinate 100M by april/may, which is i believe still the target, even if there is only 65% sterilizing immunity and 75% significantly reduced transmissibility, we will be approaching the herd immunity threshold even around may ... won't get all the way there until later in summer/fall, but enough that case levels + deaths will be getting very very low

(8) that is not to say "this is 100% over and done forever" - it is correct to say that we will likely be in a world of watching for variants/mutations, tweaking the vaccine, contact tracing mini outbreaks in random rural areas, etc. for years to come ... but life will be mostly back to normal by end of the year at the latest, and probably by mid to late summer, with the trend lines hugely positive in the right direction by ~may

(9) ah yeah should have mentioned kids ... yup, right now only approved for 16/18+ ... both companies i believe (definitely pfizer) now has studies under way in i believe 12-18 ... no one has started any studies in under 12 yet, at least as of a few weeks ago when i looked into it ... yeah, i think a few things on this: (1) by the end of next year (probably more like summer) we will likely have an approved vaccine for 12-18 (2) by the time the aug/sep school year opens up, we will be at or very close to herd immunity - we will be approaching <5000 cases per day, all teaches will have been vaccinated, and very likely we will have widespread rapid cheap antigen testing available... that in and of itself will be enough for there to be a near-normal, very very safe school environment (3) you'll think i'm a right winger ... but it is 100% true to say that this virus is INCREDIBLY SAFE in people under 18 and even and even more under 12 ... like, literally safer than flu ... so once all the adults are vaccinated or immune, it isn't that big a deal for some kids to keep getting infected .... yes, there will be a few horrible cases where a kid gets very sick or dies .... but we are literally at flu (actually literally safer than flu) levels in kids ... i know someone will say "long-term impact of asymptomatic infection isn't known in kids" ... yes i guess that is true ... but i think the general consensus is that really isn't a big concern: we would have seen more of that already if it was going to be a big deal
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1456 » by Captain_Caveman » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:21 am

Also, may be moving to Colorado soon. Anyone here live there?
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1457 » by Ed Pinkney » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:39 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:I'll just leave this here:

Image



This.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1458 » by Bad-Thoma » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:09 pm

ddb wrote:
I remember being in history class and feeling blown away at how it took so long for the Nazi's to be stopped. I remember thinking, how come the jews gave up their guns, and their gold, and their freedoms?? why didn't they fight back? Now I get why. We live in a country of sheep. a world of sheep really.
like I said, you won't find me in the boxcar line. not happening.



You're pretty well spoken for a complete moron.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1459 » by ddb » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:04 pm

FlatearthZorro wrote:
ddb wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:Btw, when it comes to Corona, it's been pretty bad in Bulgaria as well. People were barely doing most of the things the government advised- distancing, masks, etc. Now we have a semi lockdown.

Funny thing- my grandma got Covid, my mom contracted it from her, I live with my mom, it's been 2 weeks and I haven't gotten it(I was also in contact with my grandma to help change her air-conditioner at the time)- no symptoms, nothing, literally.


prayers to you and your family. hopefully, everything is okay. I'm sure it will be okay. It's flu season after all. Millions of people get sick every year at flu season. although the flu has sorta vanished. covid must have ate it.


Yea, so far so good I guess, but weird thing is both my mom and grandma(I'm in my hometown cause of home office) had the symptos and both tested positive(PCR tests). Both had muscle pain, headache, cough, they lost taste and can't smell a thing. I live with my mom and I didn't get anything(at all, even slight cold symptoms), kidna odd. It's been a while, my grandma already kinda recovered, and my mom is on her way.


my wife and four kids were all sick on and off basically the entire month of February 2019. I never got sick, but felt really weak for about a week or two. it was all the symptoms. kids had fevers that came and went...bad coughs. etc. I'm convinced it was covid before covid burst onto the scene. it was right before. We were actually in Hawaii on vacation most of March. we left and the country was normal, we returned and it was completely different. been a crazy year.

Who's pumped about the Celtics tonight?
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1460 » by ddb » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:07 pm

LarryBirdsFingr wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
ddb wrote:
I'm sorry to hear about your losses. Could you share a little more information on the health condition, age, type of shape the people who passed were in? I'm not trying to twist this in any such way. I am interested to hear more about whether or not they had pre-existing health conditions, smoked, were obese, asthma etc.


As if those people are worthless or deserved to die somehow? Maybe this thread needs to die, just saying.


This thread is why our country is ****. Too many whack jobs not listening to science.


I think the actual problem is far too many people don't know God anymore, and aren't opening their Bible. I'm not saying you...just in general.

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