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Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1661 » by cloverleaf » Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:37 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:If they want to open the schools, the 5-18 cohort needs to be vaccinated, even though (unlike virtually every pandemic in history) young people don't seem yo become seriously ill from Covid-19. It's mystery to me.


Why? There has been incredibly low transmission from children in school. Vaccines of this type (and still experimental!) would likely do more harm than good for this population.


Wrong on two counts.
In 1918, the pandemic hit young children the hardest. Millions died
And why would vaccines be safe for adults but not for children? There is no scientific basis for that statement.


We're talking about Covid in this century--not the Spanish flu in the last century:

Mortality (43 states, NYC, PR and GU reported)*
Children were 0.00%-0.19% of all COVID-19 deaths, and 10 states reported zero child deaths
​In states reporting, 0.00%-0.03% of all child COVID-19 cases resulted in death
* Note: Data represent cumulative counts since states began reporting; All data reported by state/local health departments are preliminary and subject to change


https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

There is no scientific basis for vaccines being safe for children until they have been through years-long trials. And yes, different age groups and demographics have often had different results--which is why specific trials on each are required.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1662 » by cloverleaf » Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:48 pm

SuperDeluxe wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:If they want to open the schools, the 5-18 cohort needs to be vaccinated, even though (unlike virtually every pandemic in history) young people don't seem yo become seriously ill from Covid-19. It's mystery to me.


Why? There has been incredibly low transmission from children in school. Vaccines of this type (and still experimental!) would likely do more harm than good for this population.

Here in Montreal the reopening of schools has been the root of most COVID outbreaks in the city. Kids get infected at school, then bring the virus back home and infect their parents. Teachers and parents have been begging for schooling to be remote but the provincial government insists with its idiotic decisions.

For reference, we (Montreal) have been the epicenter of the pandemic in Canada. So proud.

https://montrealgazette.com/opinion/opinion-premier-legault-teachers-are-real-experts-too


Montreal has over 800k children under age 18 and have been testing a quarter of their school population each week. Even with 1% false positives from the PCR tests (and if you run enough cycles with the PCR you can get up to 100% positives), that represents 2000 false positives a week. Plus, they switched to the even less reliable rapid tests. Teachers unions at least here in the US have been driving alarmism to try to keep our schools closed.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1663 » by Bad-Thoma » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:39 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
SuperDeluxe wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
Why? There has been incredibly low transmission from children in school. Vaccines of this type (and still experimental!) would likely do more harm than good for this population.

Here in Montreal the reopening of schools has been the root of most COVID outbreaks in the city. Kids get infected at school, then bring the virus back home and infect their parents. Teachers and parents have been begging for schooling to be remote but the provincial government insists with its idiotic decisions.

For reference, we (Montreal) have been the epicenter of the pandemic in Canada. So proud.

https://montrealgazette.com/opinion/opinion-premier-legault-teachers-are-real-experts-too


Montreal has over 800k children under age 18 and have been testing a quarter of their school population each week. Even with 1% false positives from the PCR tests (and if you run enough cycles with the PCR you can get up to 100% positives), that represents 2000 false positives a week. Plus, they switched to the even less reliable rapid tests. Teachers unions at least here in the US have been driving alarmism to try to keep our schools closed.


Montreal's population between 0-18 is about 1/2 of 800k. Can you cite some sources for your info?
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1664 » by exculpatory » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:29 am

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html

This is really really bad & what I have been saying for weeks & weeks - Fauci, Osterholm & Walensky have been predicting this as well.

America & Canada are filled with **** morons.
Michigan is ****.
I read the same thing is happening in Toronto.
Many other states are running out of time to VAX AND to RE-institute mitigation before the latest surge blows up.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1665 » by sam_I_am » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:54 am

cloverleaf wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
Why? There has been incredibly low transmission from children in school. Vaccines of this type (and still experimental!) would likely do more harm than good for this population.


Wrong on two counts.
In 1918, the pandemic hit young children the hardest. Millions died
And why would vaccines be safe for adults but not for children? There is no scientific basis for that statement.


We're talking about Covid in this century--not the Spanish flu in the last century:

Mortality (43 states, NYC, PR and GU reported)*
Children were 0.00%-0.19% of all COVID-19 deaths, and 10 states reported zero child deaths
​In states reporting, 0.00%-0.03% of all child COVID-19 cases resulted in death
* Note: Data represent cumulative counts since states began reporting; All data reported by state/local health departments are preliminary and subject to change


https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

There is no scientific basis for vaccines being safe for children until they have been through years-long trials. And yes, different age groups and demographics have often had different results--which is why specific trials on each are required.


If you leave the kids unvaccinated they become the most vulnerable population and likely leads to natural selection of strains more harmful to kids. Agree 100% that kids should be in school but we need to get them vaccinated too as soon and as safely as possible. Pfizer vaccine has been 100% safe so far for 12-15 yo kids.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1666 » by The_Ghost_of_JB » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:06 pm

exculpatory wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html

This is really really bad & what I have been saying for weeks & weeks - Fauci, Osterholm & Walensky have been predicting this as well.

America & Canada are filled with **** morons.
Michigan is ****.
I read the same thing is happening in Toronto.
Many other states are running out of time to VAX AND to RE-institute mitigation before the latest surge blows up.


Agree 100%. I would like to say I am surprised over a year later we are still in this mess but I am not. Seems like only certain states are taking this seriously. I guess look not further than the states you mentioned as well as Texas who thinks it is a good idea to have a full stadium for baseball games.

At this point we can just hope for the best. I don't think Covid will ever go away but with the vaccine hopefully someday it turns into the flu and not continue to be a pandemic.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1667 » by exculpatory » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:36 pm

Worst case - if the SA variant ever takes hold in the USA.

Covid variant from South Africa was able to ‘break through’ Pfizer vaccine in Israeli study.

PUBLISHED SUN, APR 11 20214:58 PM EDTUPDATED MON, APR 12 20217:22 AM EDT
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@BERKELEYJR
The coronavirus variant first discovered in South Africa is able to evade some of the protection of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a new Israeli study.
The researchers found the prevalence of B.1.351 among patients who received two doses of the vaccine was about eight times higher than those who were unvaccinated.
The researchers in the study noted the main caveat of the study was the same sample size.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1668 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:37 pm

exculpatory wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html

This is really really bad & what I have been saying for weeks & weeks - Fauci, Osterholm & Walensky have been predicting this as well.

America & Canada are filled with **** morons.
Michigan is ****.
I read the same thing is happening in Toronto.
Many other states are running out of time to VAX AND to RE-institute mitigation before the latest surge blows up.


Toronto is in their 3rd shutdown. My province is right beside Ontario, so you would think that our leader would be smart and start a shutdown and stop travel from neighbouring provinces now to stop the spread of the variant, but nah. Our premier has been Trump-like in his handling of the pandemic. Brutal.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1669 » by exculpatory » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:25 pm

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1670 » by reload141 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:51 pm

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
exculpatory wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html

This is really really bad & what I have been saying for weeks & weeks - Fauci, Osterholm & Walensky have been predicting this as well.

America & Canada are filled with **** morons.
Michigan is ****.
I read the same thing is happening in Toronto.
Many other states are running out of time to VAX AND to RE-institute mitigation before the latest surge blows up.


Toronto is in their 3rd shutdown. My province is right beside Ontario, so you would think that our leader would be smart and start a shutdown and stop travel from neighbouring provinces now to stop the spread of the variant, but nah. Our premier has been Trump-like in his handling of the pandemic. Brutal.


While we are pretty much all open here the vaccine rollout here is still a disaster but I guess it's OK because of the fact we are COVID free here in Australia (Except for people hotel quarantine obviously)

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/world-covid19-vaccine-rankings-shows-australia-languishing-at-back-of-the-queue/news-story/501c39c67953b42e8d2a9d4238bce657

We put a lot of eggs in the AstraZeneca basket and now we are trying to pull out of that and get more Pfizer vaccines so will be quite a bit of time before Australia catches up.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1671 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:21 am

reload141 wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
exculpatory wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html

This is really really bad & what I have been saying for weeks & weeks - Fauci, Osterholm & Walensky have been predicting this as well.

America & Canada are filled with **** morons.
Michigan is ****.
I read the same thing is happening in Toronto.
Many other states are running out of time to VAX AND to RE-institute mitigation before the latest surge blows up.


Toronto is in their 3rd shutdown. My province is right beside Ontario, so you would think that our leader would be smart and start a shutdown and stop travel from neighbouring provinces now to stop the spread of the variant, but nah. Our premier has been Trump-like in his handling of the pandemic. Brutal.


While we are pretty much all open here the vaccine rollout here is still a disaster but I guess it's OK because of the fact we are COVID free here in Australia (Except for people hotel quarantine obviously)

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/world-covid19-vaccine-rankings-shows-australia-languishing-at-back-of-the-queue/news-story/501c39c67953b42e8d2a9d4238bce657

We put a lot of eggs in the AstraZeneca basket and now we are trying to pull out of that and get more Pfizer vaccines so will be quite a bit of time before Australia catches up.


You guys did the lockdown properly and didn’t half-ass it. That’s what I wanted up here, but there were so many people whining. And the result - another wave. Lol.

I’ve had to mute/block friends and family who post dumb things on social media (apparently COVID is short for Certificate of Vaccination Identification). The ignorance is so disappointing.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1672 » by soxfan2003 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:51 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/04/11/deadly-covid-19-pandemic-is-obscuring-another-obesity/

I don't expect the general public to be informed about a bunch of scientific terms that I learned from working in life sciences but 90-95% of the United States is ignorant on why covid has spread like wildfire in the US and in so many other countries. It may even be a higher figure than that. And as of 2-3 months ago, I would say even a higher percentage of that but the media is slowly starting to tell a little more of the truth.

If the entire country wasn't ignorant, leaders would have stepped up and told the truth and told the number 1 factor that people could do to save 10's of thousands of lives before a vaccine. But very few people did and they never told the story like it needed to be told in blunt terms that is a little politically incorrect and harsh.

This is Trump's biggest failure of all but hard to blame Trump when Fauci knew much more about the subject but he failed even more since he had to know the science behind it all. Fauci is a smart dude that must know something about statistics given that I believe he was a top student in medical school.

China's Communist Party in one editorial through one of their propaganda papers told the truth on at least one occasion.
I detest the CCP but they are right on one major point.

US has huge covid deaths since US is an extremely obese society with a huge percentage of the population with compromised immune systems.

If you have huge obesity problems, you better pray to have very low population densities and tight control over your borders or you are probably absolutely 100% F*D if any pandemic that targets obesity/compromised immune systems hits. I realized this around late April/May of 2020 by looking at the data worldwide.

90%+ of covid deaths in countries with major obesity problems. This is being reported more now but just looking at the data it was known many months ago. I probably finally brought it up 6 months ago in this forum when I was like 99.99% certain but I knew it way before I posted about it.

Japan hasn't been Sweden in terms of largely just ignoring covid but much closer to Sweden of do next to nothing new than the US.

Covid deaths in Japan still not too high (a little under 10,000 or perhaps 25,000+ adjusted to the population size of the USA. Well, Japan has the disadvantage of an older population and much much higher population density so even 25k killed is remarkably low compared to over 576k and counting.

But since obesity rates is by far the most important factor for any country with a decent population density at least, Japan has largely escaped the mass death from the pandemic. Vietnam super low obesity rate and super low covid death rate.

Fauci/Birx and many others did a good job explaining the individual risk factors despite some notable screwups/contradictory info. Fauci/Trump/CDC/life science companies all deserve stellar reviews for the work/funding on vaccines.

Role out of vaccines good but could have been even better in prioritizing more of the people likely to die without a vaccine.

But where Fauci/Birx/Trump/national media/Dems/Republican/pundits and everyone else all failed miserably is explaining the ramification of having an obese population. Biden has also failed with this.

Obesity with covid is like dry leaves/easy to burn wood wood/dry grass with California forest fires, you are f'd once it starts if you have a bunch of material that can go up in flames.

Countries with very low obesity rates is like trying to start fires after 2 weeks straight of rain. Possible sure but chances are those fires won't do nearly as much damage. May still do some damage but just not nearly as much.

A fair and objective historian 50-100 years from now is going to absolute hammer the US national media/tech companies that tends to be overwhelmingly liberal and the CDC/scientists that tend to be less political but for not putting the proper emphasis on obesity. Again I dislike the Chinese Communist Party but the one advantage they have over the US which is substantial is when its in their interests, they have a willingness to tell their citizens the truth. US in many respects has lost that in lots of cases.

It isn't in the the financial interests of life science companies or even doctors to tell you the truth. And it isn't in the interest of fast food companies either. What Democrat or Republican gains votes by telling the public that obesity can cost lives even among the people that are not obese?

Partly Trump Derangement Syndrome and huge case of people not wanting to "fat shame". I've been obese before. Probably over half the country has been.

During a pandemic even the health conscious liberal bay area shutdown lots of hiking trails only furthering obesity but for sure kept McDonald's/Burger King/KFC/Popeye's open.

A joke. A sick joke. But our politicians are into survival. They realized the masses wouldn't revolt too much with hiking trails closed but if In-N-Out burger was closed, they would fear for their lives.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1673 » by The_Ghost_of_JB » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:13 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/us/politics/johnson-johnson-vaccine-blood-clots-fda-cdc.html

With FDA recommending the Johnson and Johnson vaccine be paused that cannot be good for Biden's goal to try and get everyone vaccinated by May. With cases surging in Michigan, and the different strands that we truly don't know if the vaccines protect against, I have to say it isn't a great outlook.

I don't see how this goes away anytime soon. I think what we will see is schools in person, then go back to remote. I always wear a mask so I am all for them but could be years and years before that stops. The whole thing is just depressing at this point and honestly only a matter a time before I am out of a job.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1674 » by exculpatory » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:48 pm

It has been well known for several decades at the least that obesity by itself or together with other components of the “metabolic syndrome” in western society is inordinately prevalent & predisposes to innumerable potentially lethal disease processes - most importantly, cardiovascular disease, diabetes mellitus, etc.
It was known & well publicized right at the beginning of the Covid pandemic that obesity was a major risk factor for contracting Covid & developing morbid/lethal Covid. This is not at all a surprise.
The USA has failed abysmally in addressing this obesity epidemic over the last 40 years.
Many many people profoundly **** up the management of the Covid pandemic in many ways during the last year.
Failure to demand & advertise that America per se should “go on a diet” & remedy a terrible problem which has persisted & gotten worse over decades was the least of the **** ups.

PS Regarding Fauci: What he learned in medical school 55-60 years ago is totally irrelevant. What he has learned as the Director of NIAID combating HIV, Ebola & many other viral diseases is what matters. And, all things considered, he has been an invaluable resource for the USA for decades. His position regarding Covid has appropriately evolved as the science has evolved. I am very much well to the right of center on most issues confronting us today. HOWEVER, I am truly appalled by those **** ignorant morons who go out of their way to mock & ridicule Fauci. We are very lucky to have him.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1675 » by LarryBirdsFingr » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:58 pm

exculpatory wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html

This is really really bad & what I have been saying for weeks & weeks - Fauci, Osterholm & Walensky have been predicting this as well.

America & Canada are filled with **** morons.
Michigan is ****.
I read the same thing is happening in Toronto.
Many other states are running out of time to VAX AND to RE-institute mitigation before the latest surge blows up.

Some of my moron friends from Connecticut all got the b117. Symptoms within 24 hours. Thing moves QUICK, ex.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1676 » by LarryBirdsFingr » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:00 pm

The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/us/politics/johnson-johnson-vaccine-blood-clots-fda-cdc.html

With FDA recommending the Johnson and Johnson vaccine be paused that cannot be good for Biden's goal to try and get everyone vaccinated by May. With cases surging in Michigan, and the different strands that we truly don't know if the vaccines protect against, I have to say it isn't a great outlook.

I don't see how this goes away anytime soon. I think what we will see is schools in person, then go back to remote. I always wear a mask so I am all for them but could be years and years before that stops. The whole thing is just depressing at this point and honestly only a matter a time before I am out of a job.


I don't think we see a mask less USA (unless you're stupid florida) until at least 2024-25
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1677 » by Disinformation » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:28 pm

LarryBirdsFingr wrote:
The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/us/politics/johnson-johnson-vaccine-blood-clots-fda-cdc.html

With FDA recommending the Johnson and Johnson vaccine be paused that cannot be good for Biden's goal to try and get everyone vaccinated by May. With cases surging in Michigan, and the different strands that we truly don't know if the vaccines protect against, I have to say it isn't a great outlook.

I don't see how this goes away anytime soon. I think what we will see is schools in person, then go back to remote. I always wear a mask so I am all for them but could be years and years before that stops. The whole thing is just depressing at this point and honestly only a matter a time before I am out of a job.


I don't think we see a mask less USA (unless you're stupid florida) until at least 2024-25


It's not just Florida. I live in the Seattle area and I can't remember the last time I saw someone in public not wearing a mask. But I just got back from a road trip through Eastern WA, Idaho, and Eastern Oregon. It was shocking how big the difference was. Not counting people who were at work (where presumably the employer required a mask) hardly anyone was wearing one. I swear I saw more Trump signs than I did people wearing masks.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1678 » by exculpatory » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:21 am

The unfortunate bottom line is that we will most likely not get to the place we should get to by this fall because 1) 30% of American adults (= 63 million people) are too stupid for words & will not VAX - thereby requiring the VAX of a very large % of the 0-16 cohort which will hopefully occur by the end of the year to achieve 80-90% herd immunity; 2) the failure to continue properly mitigating with masks/distance by many of the same anti-VAX morons & other morons - enabled by many moron Governors; & 3) the highly infectious B 117 UK variant. And it could be even worse if the South African variant gets a foot hold in America & proves to be significantly resistant to the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA vaccines - in which case we will have sustained an enormous set back & our vaccinated cohort will need a third VAX as soon as possible. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be wrong on both counts. But I am really **** smart, very experienced & very very currently well read. This is very very depressing.

PS The possible association of the DNA-based vaccines (J&J & AZ) with immune thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura (immune TTP) (which very much resembles heparin-induced thrombocytopenia (HIT)) is a major setback for the world. Although it only has been reported very very rarely, there is no doubt that it will increase VAX hesitancy - the last thing we need,
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1679 » by CeltsfaninDC » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:40 pm

I'M GETTING MY SHOT TODAY!!!! (I'm a little excited)
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1680 » by jmr07019 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:11 pm

exculpatory wrote:It was known & well publicized right at the beginning of the Covid pandemic that obesity was a major risk factor for contracting Covid & developing morbid/lethal Covid.


It absolutely was not.
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