ImageImageImage

Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2

Moderators: ParticleMan, Froob, canman1971, The Comedian, Parliament10, sully00, djFan71

djFan71
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 9,638
And1: 11,637
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
 

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1681 » by djFan71 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:12 pm

Wife got her first today. I'm up tomorrow.
Spoiler:
I too am excited, but caps-phobic.
exculpatory
RealGM
Posts: 11,315
And1: 7,182
Joined: Nov 10, 2008

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1682 » by exculpatory » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 pm

jmr07019 wrote:
exculpatory wrote:It was known & well publicized right at the beginning of the Covid pandemic that obesity was a major risk factor for contracting Covid & developing morbid/lethal Covid.


It absolutely was not.


Excuse me?

And your medical knowledge & insight derives from what exactly, bud?

From a lay magazine in 4/2020:
Evidence obesity is a risk factor for serious illness with coronavirus is mounting – even if you’re young
April 28, 2020
https://theconversation.com/evidence-obesity-is-a-risk-factor-for-serious-illness-with-coronavirus-is-mounting-even-if-youre-young-137081

From Metabolism on 4/27/2020
Commentary: Obesity: The “Achilles heel” for COVID-19?
Giovanna Muscogiuri et al
Published: April 27, 2020
https://www.metabolismjournal.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0026-0495%2820%2930115-3

From the Lancet on 4/1/2020
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3556658.

And about 10,000 more journal references (& lay newspapers/magazines) between then & now.
SamIam 2010: Truth's ability to play so incredibly efficiently is so UNDERAPPRECIATED. Bballcool 2012: Amazing how great Pierce has been for so long. Continues to defy age! KG 2013: P is original Celtic. Wherever he goes, we go. This is The Truth's house.
soxfan2003
RealGM
Posts: 11,279
And1: 3,723
Joined: May 30, 2003
   

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1683 » by soxfan2003 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:56 pm

jmr07019 wrote:
exculpatory wrote:It was known & well publicized right at the beginning of the Covid pandemic that obesity was a major risk factor for contracting Covid & developing morbid/lethal Covid.


It absolutely was not.


I am in between the two of you on this one but this is just a little of the info that was out there very early on that was known/suspected years ago.

This is why I am very upset with Fauci and dozens of others. He knew better in 99.99% likelihood and if he is suffering from dementia at his advanced age, the younger people working for him had to know better. If those people screwed up as well, the people with scientific backgrounds at companies like Google/Facebook/Apple/Microsoft/Twitter should have called attention to the issue by using their platforms to actually educate the public/mass media. The Washington press corps is so scientifically illiterate in the US that I only saw a few people try to ask questions that may have prompted the CDC to actually state what was probably going on.

Fauci himself wisely compared the coronavirus to a severe influenza outbreak. Severe inluenza can kills many people without a vaccine that at least partially works to slow down its spread. So severe influenza with no vaccine is not great news.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-03-obesity-virulence-influenza.html#:~:text=Previous%20research%20has%20shown%20that%20individuals%20who%20are,longer%20periods%20of%20time%20when%20obesity%20is%20present.

It was very well publicized by Fauci/Birx/others at an early time that if you were obese and/or elderly or several other conditions, you yourself had a much higher chance of dying from covid. They deserve perhaps an A- on that front in getting that message out. So, I believe Exculpatory is right on that part.

But they certainly didn't stress enough to the general American public if you were obese, you were more likely to contract covid that much for the simple fact of being obese. Either live or delayed, I watched most of the Fauci/Birx/Redfield press conferences during the pandemic and they may have made some statements inferring it and may have once or twice even stated it but it was not clear advice like handwashing or at least use hand sanitizer that was constantly pounded into the brains of the American public.

But my main point I am trying to state here is much more profound/frightening about what Fauci/Birx and others failed to say since it deals with the spread of covid. It was reasonable to hypothesize it may spread in similar fashion to influenza. Well if influenza spreads at a faster rate in communities with high obesity levels -- read article that I link to --, the DEFAULT ASSUMPTION from the experts should be that this coronavirus may spread in roughly similar fashion.

Just look at my trivial exponential growth example and the critical importance of slowing it down. We obviously don't know the exact calculations with multiple variables involved -- top data scientists had all sorts of predictions about the expected amount of deaths for various countries and understandably it was hard to get that right very early on --- but we knew relatively early on covid was spreading somewhat slowly in countries with low obesity rates and very fast in countries/areas with high obesity.

And this wasn't something surprising that scientists who study infectious diseases/ordinary influenza shouldn't have thought was a great possibility if not probability.

1.80 ^ 20 = 127482 deaths (1.8 is reflecting covid spread in a high obese country)
1.50 ^ 20 = 3325 deaths (1.5 is reflecting covid spread in a low obesity country)

1.7 * 20 = 40642 = an estimate for illustrative purposes of what may have occurred in a country that put huge emphasis on curtailing obesity starting like in April of last year and called it perhaps even more important than vaccines given that variants getting past vaccines is always possible.

It is sad that no one spoke up at a time the data was becoming compelling and hard to refute that obesity was #1 factor in the dramatic differences in death rates across countries. By April/May of 2020, Google itself could have put the information on their home page. No one had to say this was a scientific fact/100% certainty or that they had the perfect equation to predict the spread of covid which obviously will never exist for nearly any infectious disease but what I am stating here is probably much more of a scientific fact then global warming is going to do massive destruction 50 years from now since at least with global warming if you accept all of the best available science, there may be some decent mitigations or a breakthrough solution from a technology perspective.

When it comes to covid at least, we have a gigantic secondary obesity/compromised immune system problem in America that has led to the deaths of many people who are obese and many people who are not obese. It has led to the deaths of thousands of health care workers, not just nurses and doctors, who are fighting this pandemic. And it is not only a risk to Americans but it is a risk to people throughout the entire world including our neighbors who also have secondary obesity problems.

I am not for forcing obese people into strict diets of vegetables/fruits but I am for getting the message out there with the appropriate messaging. Maybe 25-30% of the people would change for the better making this pandemic only half as bad in the United States.
exculpatory
RealGM
Posts: 11,315
And1: 7,182
Joined: Nov 10, 2008

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1684 » by exculpatory » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:38 pm

soxfan2003 wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:
exculpatory wrote:It was known & well publicized right at the beginning of the Covid pandemic that obesity was a major risk factor for contracting Covid & developing morbid/lethal Covid.


It absolutely was not.


I am in between the two of you on this one but this is just a little of the info that was out there very early on that was known/suspected years ago.

This is why I am very upset with Fauci and dozens of others. He knew better in 99.99% likelihood and if he is suffering from dementia at his advanced age, the younger people working for him had to know better. If those people screwed up as well, the people with scientific backgrounds at companies like Google/Facebook/Apple/Microsoft/Twitter should have called attention to the issue by using their platforms to actually educate the public/mass media. The Washington press corps is so scientifically illiterate in the US that I only saw a few people try to ask questions that may have prompted the CDC to actually state what was probably going on.

Fauci himself wisely compared the coronavirus to a severe influenza outbreak. Severe inluenza can kills many people without a vaccine that at least partially works to slow down its spread. So severe influenza with no vaccine is not great news.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-03-obesity-virulence-influenza.html#:~:text=Previous%20research%20has%20shown%20that%20individuals%20who%20are,longer%20periods%20of%20time%20when%20obesity%20is%20present.

It was very well publicized by Fauci/Birx/others at an early time that if you were obese and/or elderly or several other conditions, you yourself had a much higher chance of dying from covid. They deserve perhaps an A- on that front in getting that message out. So, I believe Exculpatory is right on that part.

But they certainly didn't stress enough to the general American public if you were obese, you were more likely to contract covid that much for the simple fact of being obese. Either live or delayed, I watched most of the Fauci/Birx/Redfield press conferences during the pandemic and they may have made some statements inferring it and may have once or twice even stated it but it was not clear advice like handwashing or at least use hand sanitizer that was constantly pounded into the brains of the American public.

But my main point I am trying to state here is much more profound/frightening about what Fauci/Birx and others failed to say since it deals with the spread of covid. It was reasonable to hypothesize it may spread in similar fashion to influenza. Well if influenza spreads at a faster rate in communities with high obesity levels -- read article that I link to --, the DEFAULT ASSUMPTION from the experts should be that this coronavirus may spread in roughly similar fashion.

Just look at my trivial exponential growth example and the critical importance of slowing it down. We obviously don't know the exact calculations with multiple variables involved -- top data scientists had all sorts of predictions about the expected amount of deaths for various countries and understandably it was hard to get that right very early on --- but we knew relatively early on covid was spreading somewhat slowly in countries with low obesity rates and very fast in countries/areas with high obesity.

And this wasn't something surprising that scientists who study infectious diseases/ordinary influenza shouldn't have thought was a great possibility if not probability.

1.80 ^ 20 = 127482 deaths (1.8 is reflecting covid spread in a high obese country)
1.50 ^ 20 = 3325 deaths (1.5 is reflecting covid spread in a low obesity country)

1.7 * 20 = 40642 = an estimate for illustrative purposes of what may have occurred in a country that put huge emphasis on curtailing obesity starting like in April of last year and called it perhaps even more important than vaccines given that variants getting past vaccines is always possible.

It is sad that no one spoke up at a time the data was becoming compelling and hard to refute that obesity was #1 factor in the dramatic differences in death rates across countries. By April/May of 2020, Google itself could have put the information on their home page. No one had to say this was a scientific fact/100% certainty or that they had the perfect equation to predict the spread of covid which obviously will never exist for nearly any infectious disease but what I am stating here is probably much more of a scientific fact then global warming is going to do massive destruction 50 years from now since at least with global warming if you accept all of the best available science, there may be some decent mitigations or a breakthrough solution from a technology perspective.

When it comes to covid at least, we have a gigantic secondary obesity/compromised immune system problem in America that has led to the deaths of many people who are obese and many people who are not obese. It has led to the deaths of thousands of health care workers, not just nurses and doctors, who are fighting this pandemic. And it is not only a risk to Americans but it is a risk to people throughout the entire world including our neighbors who also have secondary obesity problems.

I am not for forcing obese people into strict diets of vegetables/fruits but I am for getting the message out there with the appropriate messaging. Maybe 25-30% of the people would change for the better making this pandemic only half as bad in the United States.


As I wrote earlier, the USA has failed abysmally FOR DECADES & DECADES in diminishing the obesity epidemic & the metabolic syndrome epidemic which has contributed & continues to contribute to BEYOND ENORMOUS morbidity/mortality due to cardiovascular disease/diabetes - which DWARFS the consequences of the Covid pandemic. Think Mount Everest VS a pebble.
I have seen the deleterious consequences of obesity innumerable times during my career.
And you think ~30% of the literally tens & tens & tens & tens of millions of obese & overweight people in this country would have lost a significant amount of weight thereby developing less severe Covid - if only Fauci et al had advertised the correlation of severe Covid & obesity more than they did? Bless your faith in mankind, soxfan. LOL. Fauci was quite outspoken about this issue from the get go. He did what he could.
SamIam 2010: Truth's ability to play so incredibly efficiently is so UNDERAPPRECIATED. Bballcool 2012: Amazing how great Pierce has been for so long. Continues to defy age! KG 2013: P is original Celtic. Wherever he goes, we go. This is The Truth's house.
soxfan2003
RealGM
Posts: 11,279
And1: 3,723
Joined: May 30, 2003
   

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1685 » by soxfan2003 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:01 am

exculpatory wrote:
soxfan2003 wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:
It absolutely was not.


I am in between the two of you on this one but this is just a little of the info that was out there very early on that was known/suspected years ago.

This is why I am very upset with Fauci and dozens of others. He knew better in 99.99% likelihood and if he is suffering from dementia at his advanced age, the younger people working for him had to know better. If those people screwed up as well, the people with scientific backgrounds at companies like Google/Facebook/Apple/Microsoft/Twitter should have called attention to the issue by using their platforms to actually educate the public/mass media. The Washington press corps is so scientifically illiterate in the US that I only saw a few people try to ask questions that may have prompted the CDC to actually state what was probably going on.

Fauci himself wisely compared the coronavirus to a severe influenza outbreak. Severe inluenza can kills many people without a vaccine that at least partially works to slow down its spread. So severe influenza with no vaccine is not great news.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-03-obesity-virulence-influenza.html#:~:text=Previous%20research%20has%20shown%20that%20individuals%20who%20are,longer%20periods%20of%20time%20when%20obesity%20is%20present.

It was very well publicized by Fauci/Birx/others at an early time that if you were obese and/or elderly or several other conditions, you yourself had a much higher chance of dying from covid. They deserve perhaps an A- on that front in getting that message out. So, I believe Exculpatory is right on that part.

But they certainly didn't stress enough to the general American public if you were obese, you were more likely to contract covid that much for the simple fact of being obese. Either live or delayed, I watched most of the Fauci/Birx/Redfield press conferences during the pandemic and they may have made some statements inferring it and may have once or twice even stated it but it was not clear advice like handwashing or at least use hand sanitizer that was constantly pounded into the brains of the American public.

But my main point I am trying to state here is much more profound/frightening about what Fauci/Birx and others failed to say since it deals with the spread of covid. It was reasonable to hypothesize it may spread in similar fashion to influenza. Well if influenza spreads at a faster rate in communities with high obesity levels -- read article that I link to --, the DEFAULT ASSUMPTION from the experts should be that this coronavirus may spread in roughly similar fashion.

Just look at my trivial exponential growth example and the critical importance of slowing it down. We obviously don't know the exact calculations with multiple variables involved -- top data scientists had all sorts of predictions about the expected amount of deaths for various countries and understandably it was hard to get that right very early on --- but we knew relatively early on covid was spreading somewhat slowly in countries with low obesity rates and very fast in countries/areas with high obesity.

And this wasn't something surprising that scientists who study infectious diseases/ordinary influenza shouldn't have thought was a great possibility if not probability.

1.80 ^ 20 = 127482 deaths (1.8 is reflecting covid spread in a high obese country)
1.50 ^ 20 = 3325 deaths (1.5 is reflecting covid spread in a low obesity country)

1.7 * 20 = 40642 = an estimate for illustrative purposes of what may have occurred in a country that put huge emphasis on curtailing obesity starting like in April of last year and called it perhaps even more important than vaccines given that variants getting past vaccines is always possible.

It is sad that no one spoke up at a time the data was becoming compelling and hard to refute that obesity was #1 factor in the dramatic differences in death rates across countries. By April/May of 2020, Google itself could have put the information on their home page. No one had to say this was a scientific fact/100% certainty or that they had the perfect equation to predict the spread of covid which obviously will never exist for nearly any infectious disease but what I am stating here is probably much more of a scientific fact then global warming is going to do massive destruction 50 years from now since at least with global warming if you accept all of the best available science, there may be some decent mitigations or a breakthrough solution from a technology perspective.

When it comes to covid at least, we have a gigantic secondary obesity/compromised immune system problem in America that has led to the deaths of many people who are obese and many people who are not obese. It has led to the deaths of thousands of health care workers, not just nurses and doctors, who are fighting this pandemic. And it is not only a risk to Americans but it is a risk to people throughout the entire world including our neighbors who also have secondary obesity problems.

I am not for forcing obese people into strict diets of vegetables/fruits but I am for getting the message out there with the appropriate messaging. Maybe 25-30% of the people would change for the better making this pandemic only half as bad in the United States.


As I wrote earlier, the USA has failed abysmally FOR DECADES & DECADES in diminishing the obesity epidemic & the metabolic syndrome epidemic which has contributed & continues to contribute to BEYOND ENORMOUS morbidity/mortality due to cardiovascular disease/diabetes - which DWARFS the consequences of the Covid pandemic. Think Mount Everest VS a pebble.
I have seen the deleterious consequences of obesity innumerable times during my career.
And you think ~30% of the literally tens & tens & tens & tens of millions of obese & overweight people in this country would have lost a significant amount of weight thereby developing less severe Covid - if only Fauci et al had advertised the correlation of severe Covid & obesity more than they did? Bless your faith in mankind, soxfan. LOL. Fauci was quite outspoken about this issue from the get go. He did what he could.


I completely concur with you about obesity when it comes to cardiovascular disease and diabetes. For sure staggering amounts of lives lost on a yearly basis. Obesity also a big cause for cancer as well.

With the right public statements by opinion makers, better policies from politicians and more appropriate media coverage, I am hopefully that American can get healthier. Even though nicotine is even more addictive than sugar/carbohydrates/junk food, the cigarette smoking rate has gone down by around 30% the past ~15 years with decent campaigns against cigarette smoking. Health advocates and officials fairly or unfairly used second hand smoke to really discourage smoking in general. Taxes played a role. Health messaging as well. I am trying to make the argument that second hand obesity during this pandemic may have cost more lives in the US than 2nd hand smoke during the past 10+ years. (And trust me I HATE WITH A PASSION the tobacco industry.) It may not be a factor for diabetes/cardiovascular diseases but it does help spread covid.

Again I agree with what you are stating about 4 decades of failure in confronting obesity but I really think this pandemic has been a golden opportunity missed to really begin to change attitudes.

A lot of people will not change behavior if they think it will just increase their own odds of survival. They may be fatalists or just not want to confront or think about their own deaths. But some -- not even say most -- of them that won't change for themselves will change what they do if they are honestly believe it will save others like their parents/neighbors/friends. This is why some people take vaccines that they really don't think they need for themselves after all.

I am not trying to blame the entire US obesity epidemic on any living American whether it be Fauci, Redfield or Birx or any one individual(Henry Ford or the founder of McDonald's may be okay choices) since that would be 100% idiotic but if those 3 had spoken up about the full impact of the obesity epidemic as it relates specifically to the transmission of this coronavirus when the data started becoming more indisputable, it would have encouraged other people to speak the truth/ask the right questions/debate appropriate policy and then the American public would at least realize this pandemic is a unique circumstances in which our countries entire attitudes toward obesity has to change.

In the era of covid, obesity isn't just something that can kill the obese person more easily by increasing your odds for cardiovascular disease, diabetes or even cancer. When it comes to the coronavirus, you not taking care of yourself and having a compromised immune system can contribute to the coronavirus spreading like wildfire.

A different way of illustrating my point...sorry to badger you here but I want everyone to get it.

If the US hypothetically had 25 million type 2 diabetics in poor health emigrate to Vietnam, they would still be type 2 diabetics if they eat poorly at least but they would NOT help spread type 2 diabetes in Vietnam unless they opened up restaurants pushing unhealthy eating habits on the native population. Maybe to the extent that obesity in hereditary, they would cause problems in the long run if they had kids with the native population. I am not stating every case of type 2 diabetes is self inflicted but it is well known obesity is a major risk factor like you indicate.

But if you put 25 million obese Americans in Vietnam and they didn't quickly solve their obesity problem from living in a culture/society with healthier lifestyles, the transmission of covoranvirus in Vietnam's general population would speed up significantly killing thousands of additional non obese people and some of native obese people of Vietnam. (This just assumes they are interacting/socializing/working with the native population at normal rates and not even having kids with them.)

The science and data worldwide indicates high obesity rates within a given population group helps make covid more infectious so it is a good reason for government to tip the scales and encourage healthier eating habits. At a minimum have the public fully informed so we can have the public debate as a nation. Maybe tax unhealthy fast food commercials and have those savings go into public education about health.

Obesity changed in one direction over the last 40+ years, it can start changing in the other direction with good national/state and local leadership driven by the best available science out there. Check the obesity rates in the US around 100 years ago! It may never change back to that but can still go much lower.

To show how much the US has changed....When I first started watching the NFL around 40 years ago, very few 300+ pound players in the entire league. Nowadays, well over 300 across the league each year. It may or may not hold up to Supreme Court/lower court scrutiny but small things can be done to change the culture around obesity as a part of a much bigger initiative. Maybe even the NFL can do its part by having a weight limit for NFL players. NFL would probably never do this on its own but as a part of a broader national anti obesity effort, they may consider it.
Curmudgeon
RealGM
Posts: 32,072
And1: 14,146
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1686 » by Curmudgeon » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:04 pm

The problem is that American companies make billions on unhealthy foods crammed with sugar and other bad carbs. Just check out the bags of snack foods on the shelves at any convenience store, or the the lineup of breakfast cereals at the supermarket: frosted flakes, sugar pops and all the rest. Stuff that makes people fat is cheap, plentiful and heavily advertised, while healthy foods are more expensive. Beer, wine and liquor are also heavily advertised, and all of that alcohol turns into sugar in your body.

Cigarettes are no longer advertised on TV. Maybe there ought to be a similar ban on ads for junk food and Budweiser.
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
exculpatory
RealGM
Posts: 11,315
And1: 7,182
Joined: Nov 10, 2008

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1687 » by exculpatory » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:16 pm

I admire your passion regarding this vexing issue.
And several of your points are very well taken.

Obesity is a prodigious problem - but, as you wrote, you have to start somewhere.
The association of Covid & obesity still could be used as a lever.
However, right at this moment, the focus of governmental messaging has to be on VAX & mitigation.
Sadly, vast swaths of the American public are **** idiots who have a problem focusing on 1 message at a time let alone multiple simultaneous messages.
SamIam 2010: Truth's ability to play so incredibly efficiently is so UNDERAPPRECIATED. Bballcool 2012: Amazing how great Pierce has been for so long. Continues to defy age! KG 2013: P is original Celtic. Wherever he goes, we go. This is The Truth's house.
soxfan2003
RealGM
Posts: 11,279
And1: 3,723
Joined: May 30, 2003
   

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1688 » by soxfan2003 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:43 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:The problem is that American companies make billions on unhealthy foods crammed with sugar and other bad carbs. Just check out the bags of snack foods on the shelves at any convenience store, or the the lineup of breakfast cereals at the supermarket: frosted flakes, sugar pops and all the rest. Stuff that makes people fat is cheap, plentiful and heavily advertised, while healthy foods are more expensive. Beer, wine and liquor are also heavily advertised, and all of that alcohol turns into sugar in your body.

Cigarettes are no longer advertised on TV. Maybe there ought to be a similar ban on ads for junk food and Budweiser.


I agree with you that advertising is contributing to the problem but I think society needs to deal with the consequences in the short term at least that junk food tastes better to most people. Our bodies appear to have evolved to store up energy/fat since thousands of years ago, food was not as plentiful all year round at least. One thing I will say at least in my area, a lot of non organic (and even some organic) mainstream healthy fruits and vegetables are less expensive than nearly all processed foods whether that processed food is relatively healthy or unhealthy. But the advertising for fruits and vegetables on television at least is non existent in comparison to junk food.
User avatar
Disinformation
Starter
Posts: 2,197
And1: 2,957
Joined: Jun 26, 2015
   

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1689 » by Disinformation » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:47 pm

soxfan2003 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:The problem is that American companies make billions on unhealthy foods crammed with sugar and other bad carbs. Just check out the bags of snack foods on the shelves at any convenience store, or the the lineup of breakfast cereals at the supermarket: frosted flakes, sugar pops and all the rest. Stuff that makes people fat is cheap, plentiful and heavily advertised, while healthy foods are more expensive. Beer, wine and liquor are also heavily advertised, and all of that alcohol turns into sugar in your body.

Cigarettes are no longer advertised on TV. Maybe there ought to be a similar ban on ads for junk food and Budweiser.


I agree with you that advertising is contributing to the problem but I think society needs to deal with the consequences in the short term at least that junk food tastes better to most people. Our bodies appear to have evolved to store up energy/fat since thousands of years ago, food was not as plentiful all year round at least. One thing I will say at least in my area, a lot of non organic (and even some organic) mainstream healthy fruits and vegetables are less expensive than nearly all processed foods whether that processed food is relatively healthy or unhealthy. But the advertising for fruits and vegetables on television at least is non existent in comparison to junk food.


You're going to have to hit two points hard for change. One is education which you've mentioned.

The other is the Food Industry. It's hard to choose healthy food when you can't afford it or can't find it (food deserts). In particular, the amount of sugar in our food -- even in things you wouldn't think would have any -- is borderline criminal.
Disinformation's Manifesto for the 2020 Offseason

****, I don't know. 3 ECFs in the last 4 years and this team has never really felt like a contender to me. I don't know where to go from here.
User avatar
Bad-Thoma
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,818
And1: 5,681
Joined: Feb 22, 2006
Location: Still riding proud on the C's bandwagon

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1690 » by Bad-Thoma » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:11 am

So for a mask related story -
My wife runs a food pantry that helps about 300 families on average over a 5 or 6 town area, primarily rural. Since covid came around they've had an uptick in clients for obvious reasons and also had to change the way they approached food distribution to keep everyone safe. So today a man came to the pantry for the first time and wasn't wearing a mask when he approached. One of the volunteers, who is one of the best of the best as far as people go, told the man, "You can't enter without a mask but we can bring you out some food." He proceeded to throw a fit and when my wife came out he called her, without knowing anything about her, "Democrat communist scum", got in his car, peeled out, stopped, rolled down his window and yelled, "Donald Trump won the election!" and peeled out again.

I'm so **** pissed, I know the guy was obviously mentally ill but I want to find him and have a very explicit conversation with the ****.
User avatar
SuperDeluxe
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,484
And1: 14,126
Joined: Feb 23, 2003
Location: Celtic Nation
   

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1691 » by SuperDeluxe » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:02 am

Bad-Thoma wrote:So for a mask related story -
My wife runs a food pantry that helps about 300 families on average over a 5 or 6 town area, primarily rural. Since covid came around they've had an uptick in clients for obvious reasons and also had to change the way they approached food distribution to keep everyone safe. So today a man came to the pantry for the first time and wasn't wearing a mask when he approached. One of the volunteers, who is one of the best of the best as far as people go, told the man, "You can't enter without a mask but we can bring you out some food." He proceeded to throw a fit and when my wife came out he called her, without knowing anything about her, "Democrat communist scum", got in his car, peeled out, stopped, rolled down his window and yelled, "Donald Trump won the election!" and peeled out again.

I'm so **** pissed, I know the guy was obviously mentally ill but I want to find him and have a very explicit conversation with the ****.

A tip of the hat to your wife, despite the fact that she gives away commie pinko food to destitute mask-wearing commie pinkos :wink:
User avatar
canman1971
Senior Mod - Celtics
Senior Mod - Celtics
Posts: 13,755
And1: 6,989
Joined: May 13, 2003
Location: 17 Championship BLVD
       

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1692 » by canman1971 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:06 am

Bad-Thoma wrote:So for a mask related story -
My wife runs a food pantry that helps about 300 families on average over a 5 or 6 town area, primarily rural. Since covid came around they've had an uptick in clients for obvious reasons and also had to change the way they approached food distribution to keep everyone safe. So today a man came to the pantry for the first time and wasn't wearing a mask when he approached. One of the volunteers, who is one of the best of the best as far as people go, told the man, "You can't enter without a mask but we can bring you out some food." He proceeded to throw a fit and when my wife came out he called her, without knowing anything about her, "Democrat communist scum", got in his car, peeled out, stopped, rolled down his window and yelled, "Donald Trump won the election!" and peeled out again.

I'm so **** pissed, I know the guy was obviously mentally ill but I want to find him and have a very explicit conversation with the ****.

Ugh. Why can’t people understand mental health help and education is what is needed? And thank your wife. Just crazy times.
User avatar
Bad-Thoma
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,818
And1: 5,681
Joined: Feb 22, 2006
Location: Still riding proud on the C's bandwagon

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1693 » by Bad-Thoma » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:21 am

SuperDeluxe wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:So for a mask related story -
My wife runs a food pantry that helps about 300 families on average over a 5 or 6 town area, primarily rural. Since covid came around they've had an uptick in clients for obvious reasons and also had to change the way they approached food distribution to keep everyone safe. So today a man came to the pantry for the first time and wasn't wearing a mask when he approached. One of the volunteers, who is one of the best of the best as far as people go, told the man, "You can't enter without a mask but we can bring you out some food." He proceeded to throw a fit and when my wife came out he called her, without knowing anything about her, "Democrat communist scum", got in his car, peeled out, stopped, rolled down his window and yelled, "Donald Trump won the election!" and peeled out again.

I'm so **** pissed, I know the guy was obviously mentally ill but I want to find him and have a very explicit conversation with the ****.

A tip of the hat to your wife, despite the fact that she gives away commie pinko food to destitute mask-wearing commie pinkos :wink:


She'd have given pinko commie food to that Q spouting asshat as well, she saves all her judging for me.
Curmudgeon
RealGM
Posts: 32,072
And1: 14,146
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1694 » by Curmudgeon » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:36 am

Covid-19 --and especially masks--have become politicized. There was a woman in Iowa who steadfastly maintained that Covid-19 was a hoax until she died from it a day later. It's crazy.

Hats off to Bad-Thoma's spouse for doing the kind of work she does.
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West

"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells

"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
User avatar
Ed Pinkney
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,476
And1: 3,932
Joined: Jun 23, 2007
Location: Australia
 

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1695 » by Ed Pinkney » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:09 am

Image
User avatar
jmr07019
Head Coach
Posts: 6,740
And1: 5,462
Joined: Oct 29, 2009
       

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1696 » by jmr07019 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:25 am

exculpatory wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:
exculpatory wrote:It was known & well publicized right at the beginning of the Covid pandemic that obesity was a major risk factor for contracting Covid & developing morbid/lethal Covid.


It absolutely was not.


Excuse me?

And your medical knowledge & insight derives from what exactly, bud?

From a lay magazine in 4/2020:
Evidence obesity is a risk factor for serious illness with coronavirus is mounting – even if you’re young
April 28, 2020
https://theconversation.com/evidence-obesity-is-a-risk-factor-for-serious-illness-with-coronavirus-is-mounting-even-if-youre-young-137081

From Metabolism on 4/27/2020
Commentary: Obesity: The “Achilles heel” for COVID-19?
Giovanna Muscogiuri et al
Published: April 27, 2020
https://www.metabolismjournal.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0026-0495%2820%2930115-3

From the Lancet on 4/1/2020
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3556658.

And about 10,000 more journal references (& lay newspapers/magazines) between then & now.


It doesn’t take a medical degree to know what the major news stations are reporting. Ya know.... what 90% of the country bases their decisions off of.
Show Love Spread Love
User avatar
Bad-Thoma
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,818
And1: 5,681
Joined: Feb 22, 2006
Location: Still riding proud on the C's bandwagon

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1697 » by Bad-Thoma » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:37 pm

jmr07019 wrote:
exculpatory wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:
It absolutely was not.


Excuse me?

And your medical knowledge & insight derives from what exactly, bud?

From a lay magazine in 4/2020:
Evidence obesity is a risk factor for serious illness with coronavirus is mounting – even if you’re young
April 28, 2020
https://theconversation.com/evidence-obesity-is-a-risk-factor-for-serious-illness-with-coronavirus-is-mounting-even-if-youre-young-137081

From Metabolism on 4/27/2020
Commentary: Obesity: The “Achilles heel” for COVID-19?
Giovanna Muscogiuri et al
Published: April 27, 2020
https://www.metabolismjournal.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0026-0495%2820%2930115-3

From the Lancet on 4/1/2020
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3556658.

And about 10,000 more journal references (& lay newspapers/magazines) between then & now.


It doesn’t take a medical degree to know what the major news stations are reporting. Ya know.... what 90% of the country bases their decisions off of.


Educated medical professional: Here's my argument along with citations including dates and links to appropriate articles

Jmr: In rebuttal here's some sarcasm along with a statistic that I made up


As a fellow non-medically educated person I knew about the obesity factor last spring, don't remember where I read it but it was likely in the NYT or where I get most of my news, Reuters. It wasn't only hidden in a peer-reviewed medical journal etc, those are above my pay grade. My parents knew about it as well and they almost exclusively get their news from (kill me) Fox.
Curmudgeon
RealGM
Posts: 32,072
And1: 14,146
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1698 » by Curmudgeon » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:56 pm

Obesity is a co-morbidity for lots of things: heart disease, diabetes, flu --just about everything. Your heart and lungs have to work much harder.

So what else is new?
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West

"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells

"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
User avatar
canman1971
Senior Mod - Celtics
Senior Mod - Celtics
Posts: 13,755
And1: 6,989
Joined: May 13, 2003
Location: 17 Championship BLVD
       

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1699 » by canman1971 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:09 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Obesity is a co-morbidity for lots of things: heart disease, diabetes, flu --just about everything. Your heart and lungs have to work much harder.

So what else is new?

Well, I'm getting my second shot today. That's new :wink:
User avatar
CeltsfanSinceBirth
RealGM
Posts: 22,947
And1: 32,514
Joined: Jul 29, 2003
     

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2 

Post#1700 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:39 pm

I still haven’t gotten my first shot. If you don’t have any underlying health conditions, don’t work in health care, and are under the age of 55, you are still waiting in line. It is such a joke of a roll out. We are behind several provinces in my country.

Also, while I’m venting, it is an absolute joke that around my way, we haven’t added essential workers or teachers to the list of eligible people to get the vaccine immediately. Our premiere has maintained that schools have been safe, when in reality, they have been hiding results in order to maintain this facade.

Return to Boston Celtics