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Trade Ideas Thread

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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#261 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:14 pm

BadWolf wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Gonna start a sports blog site. One of my first articles will be how this trade benefits every team involved. Please venmo me all your money. Thanks.

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Will immediately write a retraction after Kemba hits a title-winning pullup three at the buzzer this October.


So Kemba for Ja and Bam? Cool.


And Miami gives up Bam to reverse the Iggy/Winslow trade. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#262 » by Curmudgeon » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:22 pm

Getting Bam from the Heat would require giving up Tatum. And Miami already has one gimpy scoring point guard-- Dragic-- and they don't need another.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#263 » by bucknersrevenge » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:01 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Getting Bam from the Heat would require giving up Tatum. And Miami already has one gimpy scoring point guard-- Dragic-- and they don't need another.


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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#264 » by hugepatsfan » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:26 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Hayward cannot be traded without his consent unless he opts in. Plus there are other reasons why sign and trades are rare these days, starting with the base year compensation rules.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare-2.html


Hayward won’t count as BYC. He’s not going to be getting a raise of 20%.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#265 » by bucknersrevenge » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:48 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Hayward cannot be traded without his consent unless he opts in. Plus there are other reasons why sign and trades are rare these days, starting with the base year compensation rules.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare-2.html


Hayward won’t count as BYC. He’s not going to be getting a raise of 20%.


"The BYC rule applies to a specific circumstance. If a player is being signed-and-traded via Early Bird or Bird rights by a team above the salary cap, gets a raise of at least 20%, and his salary is worth more than the minimum, his cap figure for salary-matching purposes will be affected."

Again, clearly I did not read this article at all. So then, maybe the scenario I suggested is at least plausible. Say Danny goes to Hayward this offseason and says, Hey we'll give you an extra 30 Mil and 2 more years if you agree to opt out and take a 3 yr/65M extension. If you opt in, we can't pay you beyond this year. Let's say Gordon instead opts in. After the opt in, considering he won't be getting a raise but let's say a team like Indy who would be interested in bringing a #1 son home and a wing talent who could fit in seamlessly with Warren and Oladipo and they offer 4/100M which is obviously a decrease in annual salary. We could trade him for Turner and McDermott.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#266 » by snowman » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:56 pm

I understand all the salary concerns over Haywards salary and the effect it is coning to have going forward. I just think it will come done to one of two ways of going. Hayward will either sign his option for next year, or he will decline it and sign a lower cost, longer extension. Probably a 2-3 year deal, with a player option for the second year, with the Celtics.

However, if he pulls a Horford, then let him walk, and we don't have a salary problem to deal with. Yes, we lose a very good asset, but like we are reminded by all those who want to trade him now, he is the fourth option, and will be 31 next season. We will have Langford and whomever we draft this time around to take his place.

IMO, I don't see him declining his option this offseason and leaving for another team. I don't think Boston will trade Hayward this off season. I hope they don't. I would love to see him resign for 2/44-50 range with the second year a player option starting in 21/22.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#267 » by hugepatsfan » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:49 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Hayward cannot be traded without his consent unless he opts in. Plus there are other reasons why sign and trades are rare these days, starting with the base year compensation rules.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare-2.html


Hayward won’t count as BYC. He’s not going to be getting a raise of 20%.


"The BYC rule applies to a specific circumstance. If a player is being signed-and-traded via Early Bird or Bird rights by a team above the salary cap, gets a raise of at least 20%, and his salary is worth more than the minimum, his cap figure for salary-matching purposes will be affected."

Again, clearly I did not read this article at all. So then, maybe the scenario I suggested is at least plausible. Say Danny goes to Hayward this offseason and says, Hey we'll give you an extra 30 Mil and 2 more years if you agree to opt out and take a 3 yr/65M extension. If you opt in, we can't pay you beyond this year. Let's say Gordon instead opts in. After the opt in, considering he won't be getting a raise but let's say a team like Indy who would be interested in bringing a #1 son home and a wing talent who could fit in seamlessly with Warren and Oladipo and they offer 4/100M which is obviously a decrease in annual salary. We could trade him for Turner and McDermott.


There's two ways we can trade Hayward. One is via S&T. In that case, salary matching is calculated off of whatever the first year of his new deal is. The team trading for him would be hard capped at the tax apron so that is a consideration.

If he opts in, we can trade him. His salary on the option would be $34,187,085. So in order to match salaries, the new team would have to send back $27,269,668 (or take him back into cap space, but seems unlikely that NYK/CHA/DET/Atlanta would be interested in sending any value for him and unlikely we'd trade him to a competitor in MIA, IMO).

However, also have to consider that Hayward has a 15% trade kicker. That raises the incoming salary for his new team. His 15% kicker would bring his salary up to $39,315,148. That requires the new team to send back $31,372,118.20. But wait, there's more! His 15% trade kicker can't raise his salary to any higher than his maximum salary (35% of cap). The most optimistic projections are that the cap holds steady at about $109M, which would give Hayward a salary of $38,150,000 which requires another team to send back $30,440,000.

For the trade kicker, we pay the money but for salary purposes the other team has to count him at his updated salary while we count him at the old. So he counts less money for us going out then he does to the other team coming in. That could create issues, but in this case, we're likely trading Hayward to cut costs, not add salary. So shouldn't be too much of an issue if he does decline it, other than the incremental increase to the other team's cap sheet/luxury tax counter.

There's also the issue of an extension. Because Hayward's current deal is so big, he would be able to extend (with us or with a team we trade him to). He could opt in and then sign an extension to kick in next year at $20M/year. Rule prohibit players from signing extensions that increase future salary by too much, but you can sign an extension that starts lower than your last year salary in your current deal. Hayward's next deal is obviously going to be lower than his current $34.2M salary so even if he does opt in, he should be able to sign an extension this year.

To talk specifically about a deal with IND, I first off don't think they would trade Turner for Hayward. Turner is the lynchpin of their defense. He's crucial to covering for Sabonis. They lose him and they'd have to play Warren out of place at the 4 to accommodate Hayward and Warren/Sabonis might be the worst defensive front court in the NBA. I just don't see that as realistic.

But if we assume they would listen to Turner/Hayward swap, then McDermott isn't enough salary added. Also, I think for them to consider trading Turner they'd have to use Lamb's more expensive 2 year deal. And even Turner/Lamb isn't enough. Still have to add Edmond Summer or TJ Leaf. And adding Hayward would push them closer to tax so they'd want to use Leaf's more expensive deal IMO. So any Myles Turner trade I think would be Turner/Lamb/Leaf if they considered.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#268 » by hugepatsfan » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:01 pm

snowman wrote:I understand all the salary concerns over Haywards salary and the effect it is coning to have going forward. I just think it will come done to one of two ways of going. Hayward will either sign his option for next year, or he will decline it and sign a lower cost, longer extension. Probably a 2-3 year deal, with a player option for the second year, with the Celtics.

However, if he pulls a Horford, then let him walk, and we don't have a salary problem to deal with. Yes, we lose a very good asset, but like we are reminded by all those who want to trade him now, he is the fourth option, and will be 31 next season. We will have Langford and whomever we draft this time around to take his place.

IMO, I don't see him declining his option this offseason and leaving for another team. I don't think Boston will trade Hayward this off season. I hope they don't. I would love to see him resign for 2/44-50 range with the second year a player option starting in 21/22.


I know he's not the 1st or 2nd option (I'd argue he's 3rd ahead of Brown despite less PPG because he actually has playmaking responsibilities for others on top of his own scoring - Brown really doesn't do anything to create for anyone else), but I just don't think we can expect to compete without him. We all love the strides Tatum has made, but he's not really on par with the Lebron/Kawhi/Giannis/Jokic/Harden/etc. type players. All the other contenders are lead by MVP caliber players. We're led by someone hoping to make All-NBA. That's a gap to make up. Even with Kemba as our #2, the other top contenders have Anthony Davis, Paul George, Kris Middleton who are all better. It's the strength of our #3 and #4 players in Hayward/Brown that give us a shot to compete with them IMO. You lose Hayward and now you've chipped away at that big time. Having Hayward and Brown as #3/#4 being way above other teams makes up a lot more ground than just Brown was #3s does.

I just feel our best chance to compete in this next about 3 year window, and I'd argue ONLY chance, is to preserve the top-of-the-roster-depth we have. I recognize that Hayward is going to be 30 years old next year, which is why I think it's important to keep the years down on any extension. I want him here for the next 3 years, same as Kemba. That sets us up to transition to a new core after that 3 year window, but I think having the 2 of them gives us realistic shots to compete in the meantime.

If we gotta shift some back of the roster pieces to make that a financially realistic possibility then so be it, IMO. If in order for Wyc to sign off on that we need to avoid the luxury tax next year (and thus repeater taxes down the line) then I'm more than willing to use some late 1sts to dump salary and maybe give up on guys like Carsen Edwards/Vincent Poirier. Obviously I'd prefer Wyc just write blank checks and let us keep whoever we want but I recognize that might not be the case. So as a matter of priority, I put keeping Hayward above holding onto those backend roster guys we might see future for as bench pieces.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#269 » by Curmudgeon » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:57 pm

Again, the best outcome with Hayward is to keep him on a 3 year extension for less money. He's a decent 3rd or 4th option.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#270 » by snowman » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:38 am

hugepatsfan wrote:
I know he's not the 1st or 2nd option (I'd argue he's 3rd ahead of Brown despite less PPG because he actually has playmaking responsibilities for others on top of his own scoring - Brown really doesn't do anything to create for anyone else), but I just don't think we can expect to compete without him. We all love the strides Tatum has made, but he's not really on par with the Lebron/Kawhi/Giannis/Jokic/Harden/etc. type players. All the other contenders are lead by MVP caliber players. We're led by someone hoping to make All-NBA. That's a gap to make up. Even with Kemba as our #2, the other top contenders have Anthony Davis, Paul George, Kris Middleton who are all better. It's the strength of our #3 and #4 players in Hayward/Brown that give us a shot to compete with them IMO. You lose Hayward and now you've chipped away at that big time. Having Hayward and Brown as #3/#4 being way above other teams makes up a lot more ground than just Brown was #3s does.

I just feel our best chance to compete in this next about 3 year window, and I'd argue ONLY chance, is to preserve the top-of-the-roster-depth we have. I recognize that Hayward is going to be 30 years old next year, which is why I think it's important to keep the years down on any extension. I want him here for the next 3 years, same as Kemba. That sets us up to transition to a new core after that 3 year window, but I think having the 2 of them gives us realistic shots to compete in the meantime.

If we gotta shift some back of the roster pieces to make that a financially realistic possibility then so be it, IMO. If in order for Wyc to sign off on that we need to avoid the luxury tax next year (and thus repeater taxes down the line) then I'm more than willing to use some late 1sts to dump salary and maybe give up on guys like Carsen Edwards/Vincent Poirier. Obviously I'd prefer Wyc just write blank checks and let us keep whoever we want but I recognize that might not be the case. So as a matter of priority, I put keeping Hayward above holding onto those backend roster guys we might see future for as bench pieces.


Can't +1 with this more. We are on the same page. Do we really think that He would agree to a 20-25 year deal though ? 25, maybe, but I don't think he goes much less with out pulling a Horford on us.


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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#271 » by themoneyteam2 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:29 pm

Read on Twitter


Miami sign and trade Bam to Boston for Hayward who has an expiring deal so they keep cap flexibility for 2021 free agency?
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#272 » by SmartWentCrazy » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:43 pm

themoneyteam2 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Miami sign and trade Bam to Boston for Hayward who has an expiring deal so they keep cap flexibility for 2021 free agency?


Youre misinterpreting the tweet— his hold is less than theyre going to pay him. Its just a mechanism to eek on more room. Theyre absolutely keeping Bam long term.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#273 » by themoneyteam2 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:15 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
themoneyteam2 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Miami sign and trade Bam to Boston for Hayward who has an expiring deal so they keep cap flexibility for 2021 free agency?


Youre misinterpreting the tweet— his hold is less than theyre going to pay him. Its just a mechanism to eek on more room. Theyre absolutely keeping Bam long term.


lol I know just dreaming
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#274 » by captain green » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:11 am

I think Hayward best days are over but he is still good enough to take over a game or 10. I've tried every team in trade checker and still can't find a clear win to trade him, best case scenario is no longer paying him 30+mil and I can't think of any player that actually attitude wise can replace his versatility and attitude(I mean we hear nothing but contentment with his role.) Chemistry wise at 20 mill I can eat that. Until an actual trade I think we're slightly stuck or rather handicapped by our roster. Look I want a trade for a a legit top 15 big I think it is the missing piece how to get it is damn well difficult! But I ain't trading Hayward unless its for a big not a replacement of his position.
We always talk about there’s A-to-Z… really, there’s A-to-G or -E,’” Ainge told Celtics.com of a team’s typical offseason agenda. “This year, there’s definitely A-to-Z.” : danny ainge
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#275 » by ConstableGeneva » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:31 am

Read on Twitter

Among mentioned in the article are Beal, Love, CP3, Aaron Gordon, and LaVine.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#276 » by snowman » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:20 pm

Alright guys, how about this idea?

Poirier and Edwards to Dallas
for
Justin Jackson

Why for Boston:
Clears up a roster spot (2 out 1 in), only removes players at the FAR end of the bench, doesn't cost a pick to move, and we get a serviceable player in return. Jackson only costs us an additional 900 K salary, yet can be another wing scorer off the bench. I am a big Tar Heel fan, and know that Jackson can do more than he has shown so far. Playing behind Doncic, he doesn't get alot of quality minutes. Also, Jackson has a qualifying offer for the 21/22 season. If he doesn't work out, don't offer option or trade him/

Why for Dallas:
Poirier offers a cheap plan B for Powell's return from injury. Edwards offers a younger version of Seth Curry / JJ Bearea, who are 30 and 36 at a very low cost. From reading on the Dallas board, they don't feel Jackson is a good fit, nor in the future plans.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#277 » by ConstableGeneva » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:29 pm

snowman wrote:Alright guys, how about this idea?

Poirier and Edwards to Dallas
for
Justin Jackson

Why for Boston:
Clears up a roster spot (2 out 1 in), only removes players at the FAR end of the bench, doesn't cost a pick to move, and we get a serviceable player in return. Jackson only costs us an additional 900 K salary, yet can be another wing scorer off the bench. I am a big Tar Heel fan, and know that Jackson can do more than he has shown so far. Playing behind Doncic, he doesn't get alot of quality minutes. Also, Jackson has a qualifying offer for the 21/22 season. If he doesn't work out, don't offer option or trade him/

Why for Dallas:
Poirier offers a cheap plan B for Powell's return from injury. Edwards offers a younger version of Seth Curry / JJ Bearea, who are 30 and 36 at a very low cost. From reading on the Dallas board, they don't feel Jackson is a good fit, nor in the future plans.

I like it. If there's a team that likes international bigs AND tiny guards, it's the Mavs.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#278 » by Dogen » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:43 pm

themoneyteam2 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
themoneyteam2 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Miami sign and trade Bam to Boston for Hayward who has an expiring deal so they keep cap flexibility for 2021 free agency?


Youre misinterpreting the tweet— his hold is less than theyre going to pay him. Its just a mechanism to eek on more room. Theyre absolutely keeping Bam long term.


lol I know just dreaming


Maybe you're just dreaming, and maybe I'm just projecting, but if that look on Bam's face doesn't scream, "Do you want me, Celtic Nation? I'm not feeling the love here anymore", I don't know what does.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#279 » by 24istheLAW » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:57 pm

snowman wrote:Alright guys, how about this idea?

Poirier and Edwards to Dallas
for
Justin Jackson

Why for Boston:
Clears up a roster spot (2 out 1 in), only removes players at the FAR end of the bench, doesn't cost a pick to move, and we get a serviceable player in return. Jackson only costs us an additional 900 K salary, yet can be another wing scorer off the bench. I am a big Tar Heel fan, and know that Jackson can do more than he has shown so far. Playing behind Doncic, he doesn't get alot of quality minutes. Also, Jackson has a qualifying offer for the 21/22 season. If he doesn't work out, don't offer option or trade him/

Why for Dallas:
Poirier offers a cheap plan B for Powell's return from injury. Edwards offers a younger version of Seth Curry / JJ Bearea, who are 30 and 36 at a very low cost. From reading on the Dallas board, they don't feel Jackson is a good fit, nor in the future plans.


I guess I'd do it just for the consolidation of roster spots?

I really don't like Justin Jackson. Janky 3 point shot and career .325 shooter. Tweener defensively. He does have basketball skill, its just usage-dependent stuff like drives and tough finishing, which makes him bad at being a role player. He's the opposite of 3&D.

Denzel Valentine barely played this year for the trash Bulls. I'd prefer to do the same trade for him. Also can't defend or shoot, but he has a point-forward game. I think a flawed point-3 would help with depth more than a flawed stretch-4.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#280 » by hugepatsfan » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:59 pm

snowman wrote:Alright guys, how about this idea?

Poirier and Edwards to Dallas
for
Justin Jackson

Why for Boston:
Clears up a roster spot (2 out 1 in), only removes players at the FAR end of the bench, doesn't cost a pick to move, and we get a serviceable player in return. Jackson only costs us an additional 900 K salary, yet can be another wing scorer off the bench. I am a big Tar Heel fan, and know that Jackson can do more than he has shown so far. Playing behind Doncic, he doesn't get alot of quality minutes. Also, Jackson has a qualifying offer for the 21/22 season. If he doesn't work out, don't offer option or trade him/

Why for Dallas:
Poirier offers a cheap plan B for Powell's return from injury. Edwards offers a younger version of Seth Curry / JJ Bearea, who are 30 and 36 at a very low cost. From reading on the Dallas board, they don't feel Jackson is a good fit, nor in the future plans.


I like what I've seen from Carsen in the srimmages so might prefer to keep him. But it's a solid idea in principle and DAL would seem to need some roster depth at the areas Edwards/Poirier play.

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