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Trade Ideas Thread

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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#981 » by 100proof » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:52 pm

unrealistic? maybe, but who knows.

Philly in: Hayward, Heild and Poirier
Out: Simmons, Horford
Add shooting all around Joel.
MLE
Heild
Hayward
Harris
Joel

Kings in: Horford, Romeo, #14
out: Heild and Holmes
Save a little money, add youth

Boston in: Simmons and Holmes
out: Hayward, Romeo, #14 Poirier
Lets get crazy

Simmons is actually a bit bigger than Theis, so the thought here is to put him at, what imo is his natural position, center.

Kemba
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Simmons

DEFENSE wins CHIPS. lol
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#982 » by hugepatsfan » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:58 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:WAinge has to look at every deal as getting ready to convince Tatum to sign his max AFTER RFA, when we're in real danger of losing him. And nothing else or we'll be in a horrible spot in a few years.


Best way to do that is load up as much as possible in the next 3 years. That lines up with the years left on Kemba's deal. That way 3 offseasons from now we have maximum financial flexibility.

All of your deals end up with us having a worse player than Hayward and no one that fits in any longer term window. Best plan IMO is to just keep Hayward for another 3 years, overpaying if you have to. Hope to draft well and have a few players emerge. Then you go big time FA hunting around Tatum, Brown, Smart the young guys. If you get a good offer for Hayward fine, but don't trade him for worse players like Gary Harris just for the sake of making a move.

The theory of trading Hayward is more fruitful than the actual return once you sit down and think of realistic deals.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#983 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:10 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:WAinge has to look at every deal as getting ready to convince Tatum to sign his max AFTER RFA, when we're in real danger of losing him. And nothing else or we'll be in a horrible spot in a few years.


Best way to do that is load up as much as possible in the next 3 years. That lines up with the years left on Kemba's deal. That way 3 offseasons from now we have maximum financial flexibility.

All of your deals end up with us having a worse player than Hayward and no one that fits in any longer term window. Best plan IMO is to just keep Hayward for another 3 years, overpaying if you have to. Hope to draft well and have a few players emerge. Then you go big time FA hunting around Tatum, Brown, Smart the young guys. If you get a good offer for Hayward fine, but don't trade him for worse players like Gary Harris just for the sake of making a move.

The theory of trading Hayward is more fruitful than the actual return once you sit down and think of realistic deals.


You can't sign anyone when you have a Tatum, Brown, Smart, re-upped from their current deals on your team so free agency is out.

And my plan involves high draft picks so you can put someone around Tatum for the long haul.

You can always "hope to draft well". Nothing prevents that from happening while also getting a high draft pick. Our picks don't get lower by trading Hayward for say Tobias Harris and a future unprotected first.

You have to consider what is better than losing Hayward for nothing? What helps the Celtics 4 years from now? What will they need.

As you point out Hayward probably won't be around and Kemba is also doubtful. So we need to find a younger piece to may Tatum's timeline. With free agency not being an option that generally means future firsts were you can draft another Tatum, Brown, Smart or trade for a already developed piece so you don't drop off when Hayward and Kemba drop off.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#984 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:12 pm

100proof wrote:unrealistic? maybe, but who knows.

Philly in: Hayward, Heild and Poirier
Out: Simmons, Horford
Add shooting all around Joel.
MLE
Heild
Hayward
Harris
Joel

Kings in: Horford, Romeo, #14
out: Heild and Holmes
Save a little money, add youth

Boston in: Simmons and Holmes
out: Hayward, Romeo, #14 Poirier
Lets get crazy

Simmons is actually a bit bigger than Theis, so the thought here is to put him at, what imo is his natural position, center.

Kemba
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Simmons

DEFENSE wins CHIPS. lol


That's not as crazy as it sounds. Simmons is like a different version of Bam and he is a Center in today's NBA through and through.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#985 » by 100proof » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:13 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
100proof wrote:unrealistic? maybe, but who knows.

Philly in: Hayward, Heild and Poirier
Out: Simmons, Horford
Add shooting all around Joel.
MLE
Heild
Hayward
Harris
Joel

Kings in: Horford, Romeo, #14
out: Heild and Holmes
Save a little money, add youth

Boston in: Simmons and Holmes
out: Hayward, Romeo, #14 Poirier
Lets get crazy

Simmons is actually a bit bigger than Theis, so the thought here is to put him at, what imo is his natural position, center.

Kemba
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Simmons

DEFENSE wins CHIPS. lol


That's not as crazy as it sounds. Simmons is like a different version of Bam and he is a Center in today's NBA through and through.


Not a huge fan of simmons, but that starting lineup is absolutely foolish on both ends of the court.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#986 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:17 pm

100proof wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
100proof wrote:unrealistic? maybe, but who knows.

Philly in: Hayward, Heild and Poirier
Out: Simmons, Horford
Add shooting all around Joel.
MLE
Heild
Hayward
Harris
Joel

Kings in: Horford, Romeo, #14
out: Heild and Holmes
Save a little money, add youth

Boston in: Simmons and Holmes
out: Hayward, Romeo, #14 Poirier
Lets get crazy

Simmons is actually a bit bigger than Theis, so the thought here is to put him at, what imo is his natural position, center.

Kemba
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Simmons

DEFENSE wins CHIPS. lol


That's not as crazy as it sounds. Simmons is like a different version of Bam and he is a Center in today's NBA through and through.


Not a huge fan of simmons, but that starting lineup is absolutely foolish on both ends of the court.


To be honest though I'd rather cut out the middle man and just trade Hayward for Heild. Who is signed to a descending contract and that makes him viable post a Tatum extension.

I am of course a bit concerned about Hield's ability to defend.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#987 » by 100proof » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:34 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
100proof wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
That's not as crazy as it sounds. Simmons is like a different version of Bam and he is a Center in today's NBA through and through.


Not a huge fan of simmons, but that starting lineup is absolutely foolish on both ends of the court.


To be honest though I'd rather cut out the middle man and just trade Hayward for Heild. Who is signed to a descending contract and that makes him viable post a Tatum extension.

I am of course a bit concerned about Hield's ability to defend.


You would rather Hield to Ben Simmons?
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#988 » by Higgs Boston » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:50 pm

Simmons has had a lot of health issues playing as PG, playing as C he likely would be destroyed by injuries. I think he can play as C but he doesn't have durability.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#989 » by GreenFor3 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:09 pm

Higgs Boston wrote:Simmons has had a lot of health issues playing as PG, playing as C he likely would be destroyed by injuries. I think he can play as C but he doesn't have durability.

You'd just play him at PF next to Theis during the regular season. Then you finish games with him at center depending on the opponent. He pairs perfectly with Smart, they'd have dominant defense and Simmons can be the primary play maker. Plus I think Simmons would dominate in a high tempo offense and switching defense.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#990 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:24 pm

100proof wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
100proof wrote:
Not a huge fan of simmons, but that starting lineup is absolutely foolish on both ends of the court.


To be honest though I'd rather cut out the middle man and just trade Hayward for Heild. Who is signed to a descending contract and that makes him viable post a Tatum extension.

I am of course a bit concerned about Hield's ability to defend.


You would rather Hield to Ben Simmons?


I can't say because I don't know how to rate Hield as a defender.

But in general I know someone who is a career 41.1% 3 point shooter on 6.7 3PAs/g is... well game changing.

And if Tatum is a ball in his hand prolific guy who can now playmake for others on offense. Then we can get by with a Kemba/Tatum ballhandling duo.

But again it really depends on just how awful Hield's defense is. If he's someone that can just be exploited like Kemba on switches then it's not worth it and I'd go Simmons. Our offense is mostly working with Theis not hitting a single 3 so we can sub in Simmons and enjoy the benefits of having a lesser Bam O in our rotation. Assuming he buys into being a Center and being a pick and seal guy on offense that only creates in a "bail us out with playmaking" if a play dies sort of sense.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#991 » by 100proof » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:27 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
100proof wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
To be honest though I'd rather cut out the middle man and just trade Hayward for Heild. Who is signed to a descending contract and that makes him viable post a Tatum extension.

I am of course a bit concerned about Hield's ability to defend.


You would rather Hield to Ben Simmons?


I can't say because I don't know how to rate Hield as a defender.

But in general I know someone who is a career 41.1% 3 point shooter on 6.7 3PAs/g is... well game changing.

And if Tatum is a ball in his hand prolific guy who can now playmake for others on offense. Then we can get by with a Kemba/Tatum ballhandling duo.

But again it really depends on just how awful Hield's defense is. If he's someone that can just be exploited like Kemba on switches then it's not worth it and I'd go Simmons. Our offense is mostly working with Theis not hitting a single 3 so we can sub in Simmons and enjoy the benefits of having a lesser Bam O in our rotation. Assuming he buys into being a Center and being a pick and seal guy on offense that only creates in a "bail us out with playmaking" if a play dies sort of sense.


I think he brings what Hayward does to the lineup that is usefull as a secondary playmaker and scorer. I mean, I cannot see a center in the nba defending him, there would be a massive amount of mismatches.

Then of course, there is the ability to flip him for a different asset from somewhere else if it doesnt work out too great. I have no doubt that simmons is viewed as being a far superior talent than Heild.

If Simmons gains the confidence to shoot a little from Stevens then we are improving dramatically.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#992 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:28 pm

GreenFor3 wrote:
Higgs Boston wrote:Simmons has had a lot of health issues playing as PG, playing as C he likely would be destroyed by injuries. I think he can play as C but he doesn't have durability.

You'd just play him at PF next to Theis during the regular season. Then you finish games with him at center depending on the opponent. He pairs perfectly with Smart, they'd have dominant defense and Simmons can be the primary play maker. Plus I think Simmons would dominate in a high tempo offense and switching defense.



Theis can't hit a 3 as he's showing in the playoffs.

A Theis/Simmons frontcourt would have the same problems as a Simmons/Embiid one just with 1/100th of the talent.

Simmons can't shoot at all. He shouldn't be on the court with any player that hits less than league average (36%) from 3.

I don't really buy that he has durability issues though. Sure he lost his rookie year but has been pretty good since then.

I do buy that Simmons at Center would open a lot for his game IF and ONLY IF he allowed himself to be used as a Center and not a PG.

He can blow by PGs, he can much more readily blow by Centers and have no one at the rim able to challenge him. I think that's where he'd be at his most dangerous.

Essentially have him as a pick and roll Center, and if he is forced to pop then flow into a pick and roll on the side in real time and have his play making hit a cutter to the rim or a guy from 3.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#993 » by 100proof » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:46 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
GreenFor3 wrote:
Higgs Boston wrote:Simmons has had a lot of health issues playing as PG, playing as C he likely would be destroyed by injuries. I think he can play as C but he doesn't have durability.

You'd just play him at PF next to Theis during the regular season. Then you finish games with him at center depending on the opponent. He pairs perfectly with Smart, they'd have dominant defense and Simmons can be the primary play maker. Plus I think Simmons would dominate in a high tempo offense and switching defense.



Theis can't hit a 3 as he's showing in the playoffs.

A Theis/Simmons frontcourt would have the same problems as a Simmons/Embiid one just with 1/100th of the talent.

Simmons can't shoot at all. He shouldn't be on the court with any player that hits less than league average (36%) from 3.

I don't really buy that he has durability issues though. Sure he lost his rookie year but has been pretty good since then.

I do buy that Simmons at Center would open a lot for his game IF and ONLY IF he allowed himself to be used as a Center and not a PG.

He can blow by PGs, he can much more readily blow by Centers and have no one at the rim able to challenge him. I think that's where he'd be at his most dangerous.

Essentially have him as a pick and roll Center, and if he is forced to pop then flow into a pick and roll on the side in real time and have his play making hit a cutter to the rim or a guy from 3.



He would be a filthy center. Perhaps a top 3 in the league at center pretty easily. A better center than Embiid for certain.

His mobility and ability to handle and drive would completely break the game imo. at least 10 plays a game you could just toss the ball to Ben at the top of the key and let his incredibly mismatch ability go to work with Brown, Smart, Tatum and Kemba all cutting and screening off ball looking for the kickout. Ben will easily beat of the dribble or pass over the top of anyone who defends him.

Think how good Al Horford looked here, obviously minus the 3pt shot, but plus the court vision, speed, athleticism, length etc.

IMO Kemba, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Simmons is the lineup to start with, and Theis comes in and feasts off the second unit. if team needs size to close out game Theis comes in for Kemba defensively. And Kemba for Theis offensively.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#994 » by 100proof » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:47 pm

Higgs Boston wrote:Simmons has had a lot of health issues playing as PG, playing as C he likely would be destroyed by injuries. I think he can play as C but he doesn't have durability.


Maybe.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#995 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:11 pm

100proof wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
GreenFor3 wrote:You'd just play him at PF next to Theis during the regular season. Then you finish games with him at center depending on the opponent. He pairs perfectly with Smart, they'd have dominant defense and Simmons can be the primary play maker. Plus I think Simmons would dominate in a high tempo offense and switching defense.



Theis can't hit a 3 as he's showing in the playoffs.

A Theis/Simmons frontcourt would have the same problems as a Simmons/Embiid one just with 1/100th of the talent.

Simmons can't shoot at all. He shouldn't be on the court with any player that hits less than league average (36%) from 3.

I don't really buy that he has durability issues though. Sure he lost his rookie year but has been pretty good since then.

I do buy that Simmons at Center would open a lot for his game IF and ONLY IF he allowed himself to be used as a Center and not a PG.

He can blow by PGs, he can much more readily blow by Centers and have no one at the rim able to challenge him. I think that's where he'd be at his most dangerous.

Essentially have him as a pick and roll Center, and if he is forced to pop then flow into a pick and roll on the side in real time and have his play making hit a cutter to the rim or a guy from 3.



He would be a filthy center. Perhaps a top 3 in the league at center pretty easily. A better center than Embiid for certain.

His mobility and ability to handle and drive would completely break the game imo. at least 10 plays a game you could just toss the ball to Ben at the top of the key and let his incredibly mismatch ability go to work with Brown, Smart, Tatum and Kemba all cutting and screening off ball looking for the kickout. Ben will easily beat of the dribble or pass over the top of anyone who defends him.

Think how good Al Horford looked here, obviously minus the 3pt shot, but plus the court vision, speed, athleticism, length etc.

IMO Kemba, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Simmons is the lineup to start with, and Theis comes in and feasts off the second unit. if team needs size to close out game Theis comes in for Kemba defensively. And Kemba for Theis offensively.


Also if you asked me this 3 WEEKS ago I would have 100% been on board with Simmons because I didn't see ANY playmaking from Tatum and that plus the lack of elite Wade/LeBron finishing I was like... ummm he'd have to be Steph Curry to be an MVP.

Now that we're seeing some playmaking, and I think game 7 was the best playmaking of his entire career, ... it's like wait. If he can get consistent with this maybe it'll never a point guard level of playmaking like a Doncic or LeBron but we're like... seeing reasonable playmaking here. Good enough to the point where he can convert the attention he's getting to open shots for others and therefore make players better.

This could all changed in 2 weeks if we get locked up vs MIA and Tatum looks like he can't playmake again hahahahah
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#996 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:16 pm

100proof wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
GreenFor3 wrote:You'd just play him at PF next to Theis during the regular season. Then you finish games with him at center depending on the opponent. He pairs perfectly with Smart, they'd have dominant defense and Simmons can be the primary play maker. Plus I think Simmons would dominate in a high tempo offense and switching defense.



Theis can't hit a 3 as he's showing in the playoffs.

A Theis/Simmons frontcourt would have the same problems as a Simmons/Embiid one just with 1/100th of the talent.

Simmons can't shoot at all. He shouldn't be on the court with any player that hits less than league average (36%) from 3.

I don't really buy that he has durability issues though. Sure he lost his rookie year but has been pretty good since then.

I do buy that Simmons at Center would open a lot for his game IF and ONLY IF he allowed himself to be used as a Center and not a PG.

He can blow by PGs, he can much more readily blow by Centers and have no one at the rim able to challenge him. I think that's where he'd be at his most dangerous.

Essentially have him as a pick and roll Center, and if he is forced to pop then flow into a pick and roll on the side in real time and have his play making hit a cutter to the rim or a guy from 3.



He would be a filthy center. Perhaps a top 3 in the league at center pretty easily. A better center than Embiid for certain.

His mobility and ability to handle and drive would completely break the game imo. at least 10 plays a game you could just toss the ball to Ben at the top of the key and let his incredibly mismatch ability go to work with Brown, Smart, Tatum and Kemba all cutting and screening off ball looking for the kickout. Ben will easily beat of the dribble or pass over the top of anyone who defends him.

Think how good Al Horford looked here, obviously minus the 3pt shot, but plus the court vision, speed, athleticism, length etc.

IMO Kemba, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Simmons is the lineup to start with, and Theis comes in and feasts off the second unit. if team needs size to close out game Theis comes in for Kemba defensively. And Kemba for Theis offensively.


I totally agree except instead of Horford I think Simmons would be a better passing version of Bam but without a mid range shot.

That's still really good. He'd be a better driver than Bam is now too.

But realistically players have egos and I'm not sure he'd accept that position on an offense.

Like you need Simmons in a pick and roll as the screen setter. You DON'T want him to hold the ball at the top of the key. If Simmons is standing still like Bam or Horford this is what their Center does... takes 3 steps backs, dares him to shoot the mid range and completely deny any drives to the basket.

Simmons doesn't beat players with a quick crossover or first step. He needs a head of steam to do so, that's why he's PROLIFIC in transition but not so good in the half court.

You can fix his half court offense by having him be the screen setter in a Kemba and Tatum pick and roll and then let him attack down hill on a defense in rotation and let him playmake while driving from there.

I think the key to Simmons at Center is not only being one of the best defenders in the NBA, but you fix a lot of the half court issues that really hurt a team with him on it where if he has the ball at the top of the key for a set defense he has to pass it because he's useless and his man is about 10 feet away from him just setting up to take a charge and intercept any passes he may pass that head towards the basket.

Again all of this ASSUMES Simmons would agree to this, as someone who plays PG to play as a screensetting big man is a hell of a mental **** and not one easiely made for a young guy who's made the all-star team every year and just made first team all-defense.

If anything HIS ideal situation in his mind is if you trade Embiid for David Bertans and let him cook as the primary PG. He would win more as a screen setting big man on offense though.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#997 » by 100proof » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:24 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
100proof wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:

Theis can't hit a 3 as he's showing in the playoffs.

A Theis/Simmons frontcourt would have the same problems as a Simmons/Embiid one just with 1/100th of the talent.

Simmons can't shoot at all. He shouldn't be on the court with any player that hits less than league average (36%) from 3.

I don't really buy that he has durability issues though. Sure he lost his rookie year but has been pretty good since then.

I do buy that Simmons at Center would open a lot for his game IF and ONLY IF he allowed himself to be used as a Center and not a PG.

He can blow by PGs, he can much more readily blow by Centers and have no one at the rim able to challenge him. I think that's where he'd be at his most dangerous.

Essentially have him as a pick and roll Center, and if he is forced to pop then flow into a pick and roll on the side in real time and have his play making hit a cutter to the rim or a guy from 3.



He would be a filthy center. Perhaps a top 3 in the league at center pretty easily. A better center than Embiid for certain.

His mobility and ability to handle and drive would completely break the game imo. at least 10 plays a game you could just toss the ball to Ben at the top of the key and let his incredibly mismatch ability go to work with Brown, Smart, Tatum and Kemba all cutting and screening off ball looking for the kickout. Ben will easily beat of the dribble or pass over the top of anyone who defends him.

Think how good Al Horford looked here, obviously minus the 3pt shot, but plus the court vision, speed, athleticism, length etc.

IMO Kemba, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Simmons is the lineup to start with, and Theis comes in and feasts off the second unit. if team needs size to close out game Theis comes in for Kemba defensively. And Kemba for Theis offensively.


I totally agree except instead of Horford I think Simmons would be a better passing version of Bam but without a mid range shot.

That's still really good. He'd be a better driver than Bam is now too.

But realistically players have egos and I'm not sure he'd accept that position on an offense.

Like you need Simmons in a pick and roll as the screen setter. You DON'T want him to hold the ball at the top of the key. If Simmons is standing still like Bam or Horford this is what their Center does... takes 3 steps backs, dares him to shoot the mid range and completely deny any drives to the basket.

Simmons doesn't beat players with a quick crossover or first step. He needs a head of steam to do so, that's why he's PROLIFIC in transition but not so good in the half court.

You can fix his half court offense by having him be the screen setter in a Kemba and Tatum pick and roll and then let him attack down hill on a defense in rotation and let him playmake while driving from there.

I think the key to Simmons at Center is not only being one of the best defenders in the NBA, but you fix a lot of the half court issues that really hurt a team with him on it where if he has the ball at the top of the key for a set defense he has to pass it because he's useless and his man is about 10 feet away from him just setting up to take a charge and intercept any passes he may pass that head towards the basket.

Again all of this ASSUMES Simmons would agree to this, as someone who plays PG to play as a screensetting big man is a hell of a mental **** and not one easiely made for a young guy who's made the all-star team every year and just made first team all-defense.

If anything HIS ideal situation in his mind is if you trade Embiid for David Bertans and let him cook as the primary PG. He would win more as a screen setting big man on offense though.


It is certainly in interesting proposition.

if hypothetically the deal worked and went through, I would immediately tell him of the plan for him offensively on the team. If he didnt like it I would look to flip him. ( I do think he would buy into though. With Celtics defense and him being the primary defensive backbone, he would get so many opportunities to rebound and run. I think he would get far more of those opportunities playing as a center than as any other position.)

I have to believe a team like the Pelicans, or Atlanta, or Minny would all like his services imo.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#998 » by 100proof » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:29 pm

Utah in:
Ben Simmons, Horford

Philly in:
Hayward, Conley

Celtics in
Gobert

Who says no to that?
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#999 » by Curmudgeon » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:35 pm

100proof wrote:Utah in:
Ben Simmons, Horford

Philly in:
Hayward, Conley

Celtics in
Gobert

Who says no to that?


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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#1000 » by djFan71 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:35 pm

100proof wrote:Utah in:
Ben Simmons, Horford

Philly in:
Hayward, Conley

Celtics in
Gobert

Who says no to that?

Celtics and Philly.

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