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OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political)

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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#21 » by Taget » Sat Jun 6, 2020 12:04 am

Bill Russell was part of the civil right's struggle in the 1960s. No surprise seeing our guys continue the tradition.
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#22 » by claycarver » Sat Jun 6, 2020 6:54 am

I've talked to two ex-cops about this (one of them very conservative) and they're both totally on board with the 8 reforms the NAACP recommended. The conservative guy even expressed annoyance that all 8 of these haven't been standard practices already.

https://8cantwait.org
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#23 » by hugepatsfan » Sat Jun 6, 2020 4:14 pm

claycarver wrote:I've talked to two ex-cops about this (one of them very conservative) and they're both totally on board with the 8 reforms the NAACP's recommends. The conservative guy even expressed annoyance that all 8 of these haven't been standard practices already.

https://8cantwait.org


All of those rules go back to me that we seem to have fundamentally have lost the idea that POLICE AREN'T SUPPOSED TO USE VIOLENCE UNLESS NECESSARY. If a situation can be handles without violence then they should be.

This is an extreme example but even if I sucker punch a cop right in between the eyes he's not supposed to try and be violent back. He's supposed to just use a reasonable amount of force to get me to the ground and cuff me.

"Well if he just did what the cop said or didn't resist arrest he wouldn't have gotten hurt" is not a valid excuse/reason/justification.

At the end of the day the reason why we all say "thank you" to cops and put them on this pedestal is because on paper it's an extremely honorable job. They put themselves in the line of danger for the greater good of everyone. And they're asked to be the cooler head that prevails in tense and violent situations.

We need to start holding them accountable on that last part. Cops are supposed to have a better reaction than to fight violence with more violence. DE-ESCALATE situations like it says in that link.
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#24 » by claycarver » Sat Jun 6, 2020 4:31 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:This is an extreme example but even if I sucker punch a cop right in between the eyes he's not supposed to try and be violent back. He's supposed to just use a reasonable amount of force to get me to the ground and cuff me.


I don't think we're paying cops enough to give everyone a free shot at them every day.

But to your point, absolutely. The first instinct should be de-escalation.
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#25 » by Parliament10 » Sat Jun 6, 2020 7:14 pm

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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#26 » by Parliament10 » Sat Jun 6, 2020 8:42 pm

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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#27 » by 31to6 » Sun Jun 7, 2020 4:27 am

Parl, what you posted from Russell is a nice reminder that he may not be the greatest player in NBA history, but he is the Greatest who has ever played in the NBA.
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#28 » by return2glory » Sun Jun 7, 2020 4:45 am

Honestly this isn’t about race. It’s so much more.

Ask yourselves you owns the TV networks? Billionaires, that’s who. They choose to run this story as tragic as it is. But why? But why now? Incidents like this aren’t at rare in this country, they just don’t get the coverage like this.

To get the attention of covid that why. The government was losing control of the people with their scare tactics.

People started getting tired of the bs. Cases of people dying from reasons unrelated to covid yet hospitals where putting down covid as the reason for death. There were cases about people dying in car accidents and the reason for death by hospitals was covid.

Infections doctors saying the morality rates are 0.4% and not 4%. Small business being forced to shut down yet big business like Walmart, Costco, Target, supermarkets being open. Why? Why were beaches closed?

What happened to the news coverage for covid since the George Floyd news broke? It went away. All these protests and none stop tv coverage yet no one was talking about social distancing during the protests.

The billionaires that run the country are all sitting back and laughing. No one questions that George Soros, a racist was funded Black lives matters movement a few years back. A white racist funded a black movement, hmmm.

What a way to divide the country by creating racial tension. There is something big coming soon and the latest non stop coverage about race, protesting and looters is all about taking that attention away from wants coming. Just like a master illusionist, the billionaires that run this planet and own tv networks and dictate what stories to go with, are controlling the minds of the masses. People need to rise up and see through this bs.

Last things. Bill Gates is behind a lot of the vaccines. His parents were both heavily involved in population control. Gates is not a dr nor a scientist and he sure as heck doesn’t care about the common people. Yet why is he trying to come up with a vaccine for covid?
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#29 » by SuperDeluxe » Sun Jun 7, 2020 5:15 am

return2glory wrote:Honestly this isn’t about race.

Your post started with an awful, blind, completely ignorant first line. And then, to my surprise, you were still able to make it even worse with the rest.
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#30 » by return2glory » Sun Jun 7, 2020 6:03 am

SuperDeluxe wrote:
return2glory wrote:Honestly this isn’t about race.

Your post started with an awful, blind, completely ignorant first line. And then, to my surprise, you were still able to make it even worse with the rest.



I see it as an evil human being attacking and murdering a defenseless man. And 3 other coward police officers with no common sense, standing back and allowing a murder on an innocent man to take place.

Choose to believe everything you hear on tv and call other peoples takes blind and ignorant.
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#31 » by Slax » Sun Jun 7, 2020 3:16 pm

claycarver wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:This is an extreme example but even if I sucker punch a cop right in between the eyes he's not supposed to try and be violent back. He's supposed to just use a reasonable amount of force to get me to the ground and cuff me.


I don't think we're paying cops enough to give everyone a free shot at them every day.

But to your point, absolutely. The first instinct should be de-escalation.


I agree nobody should get a "free shot" at cops, but as paid, trained, organized, respected agents of the state who are sworn to protect the safety of the public, I do think that we should have higher expectations of police compared to ordinary citizens to commit to attempting nonviolent deescalation even if it means taking some risks to their personal safety. It's clear with some of these killings of people who were no threat to the public like George Floyd, Breonna Taylor (even if there had been drug dealers at the household, would a no-knock midnight raid with guns blazing have been the best and safest approach?), and Philando Castile - as well as in the way police are indiscriminately spraying tear gas and shooting rubber bullets into crowds even at the relatively nonviolent protests in addition to actual violent riots - that the police see their core job as "suppress the criminals before they can do anything bad" rather than "manage the situation so that it has a peaceful outcome". And it's true that the former is sometimes the right approach, but frankly only a tiny, tiny minority of actual police interactions involve wild west quick shooter standoffs with violent criminals who are putting lives at stake, so even in cases where officers are afraid the situation could escalate, there has to be a sense of appropriate and proportionate response - or sometimes even less-than-proportionate response, to deescalate.

I don't think this means that police are an inherently destabilizing and oppressive institution, but I like to envision a future where police interact with the public in a way that makes them feel less like an occupying army putting down a violent insurrection, and more like a corps of peace officers with expertise in resolving disputes and making the public feel safe and at ease and protected. And honestly I think even some of the more modest reforms listed on 8cantwait.org like "require warning before shooting" would make a meaningful difference in making it feel like the police are there to protect the public instead of suppress them.

Editing to add: I think we actually saw a great example of how police should be treating the public at the armed anti-lockdown protests at government buildings in April and May. A lot of these protesters were clearly acting in extremely threatening ways - brandishing weapons, getting in officers' faces and shouting, making death threats to politicians - but to their credit, police didn't gear up in threatening-looking riot gear, and they did a great job of ignoring protesters instead of succumbing to shoving, beating, making mass arrests, spraying tear gas and rubber bullets, dispersing crowds, or shooting people. They got a lot of crap from the left for not doing more to actively intervene in these protests, but I actually think they handled it superbly, and that it helped contribute to the relatively peaceful resolution of those protests. I just think they should do more of that, even though it must be super scary and frustrating for them!
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#32 » by hugepatsfan » Sun Jun 7, 2020 4:42 pm

Slax wrote:
claycarver wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:This is an extreme example but even if I sucker punch a cop right in between the eyes he's not supposed to try and be violent back. He's supposed to just use a reasonable amount of force to get me to the ground and cuff me.


I don't think we're paying cops enough to give everyone a free shot at them every day.

But to your point, absolutely. The first instinct should be de-escalation.


I agree nobody should get a "free shot" at cops, but as paid, trained, organized, respected agents of the state who are sworn to protect the safety of the public, I do think that we should have higher expectations of police compared to ordinary citizens to commit to attempting nonviolent deescalation even if it means taking some risks to their personal safety. It's clear with some of these killings of people who were no threat to the public like George Floyd, Breonna Taylor (even if there had been drug dealers at the household, would a no-knock midnight raid with guns blazing have been the best and safest approach?), and Philando Castile - as well as in the way police are indiscriminately spraying tear gas and shooting rubber bullets into crowds even at the relatively nonviolent protests in addition to actual violent riots - that the police see their core job as "suppress the criminals before they can do anything bad" rather than "manage the situation so that it has a peaceful outcome". And it's true that the former is sometimes the right approach, but frankly only a tiny, tiny minority of actual police interactions involve wild west quick shooter standoffs with violent criminals who are putting lives at stake, so even in cases where officers are afraid the situation could escalate, there has to be a sense of appropriate and proportionate response - or sometimes even less-than-proportionate response, to deescalate.

I don't think this means that police are an inherently destabilizing and oppressive institution, but I like to envision a future where police interact with the public in a way that makes them feel less like an occupying army putting down a violent insurrection, and more like a corps of peace officers with expertise in resolving disputes and making the public feel safe and at ease and protected. And honestly I think even some of the more modest reforms listed on 8cantwait.org like "require warning before shooting" would make a meaningful difference in making it feel like the police are there to protect the public instead of suppress them.

Editing to add: I think we actually saw a great example of how police should be treating the public at the armed anti-lockdown protests at government buildings in April and May. A lot of these protesters were clearly acting in extremely threatening ways - brandishing weapons, getting in officers' faces and shouting, making death threats to politicians - but to their credit, police didn't gear up in threatening-looking riot gear, and they did a great job of ignoring protesters instead of succumbing to shoving, beating, making mass arrests, spraying tear gas and rubber bullets, dispersing crowds, or shooting people. They got a lot of crap from the left for not doing more to actively intervene in these protests, but I actually think they handled it superbly, and that it helped contribute to the relatively peaceful resolution of those protests. I just think they should do more of that, even though it must be super scary and frustrating for them!


The really messed up thing is that in those lockdown protests they felt safer around those gun-toting looney tunes than they do in a group of black lives matters protestors.

But at the same time, I think all of us are in agreement that African Americans have every reason to hate and distrust the police after decades and decades of mistreatment. So it only stands to logic that they will hate and distrust the police. Which in turn only stands to logic that the police will therefore feel more threatened by them.

Until the police no longer feel threatened by African Americans I don't think the African American community can ever grow to trust and respect the police force. But for as long as the African American community distrusts and hates the police, I don't think the police will ever not see them as a heightened threat to their own safety. I think we need to focus on rebuilding the trust between the different communities.
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#33 » by hugepatsfan » Sun Jun 7, 2020 4:47 pm

return2glory wrote:
SuperDeluxe wrote:
return2glory wrote:Honestly this isn’t about race.

Your post started with an awful, blind, completely ignorant first line. And then, to my surprise, you were still able to make it even worse with the rest.



I see it as an evil human being attacking and murdering a defenseless man. And 3 other coward police officers with no common sense, standing back and allowing a murder on an innocent man to take place.

Choose to believe everything you hear on tv and call other peoples takes blind and ignorant.


On the surface level, that's what it was. None of us are in the officers thread. He could have evil in his heart for all people, not just African Americans. But you're missing the bigger point.

There are so many problems in this world and they all affect both black and white people. But racism is a way that all of those problems can disproportionately affect black people.

There are evil cops and civilians who mean hard to others - both white and black. But racism makes it so that harm affect black people more.

People - white or black - get passed up for jobs they deserve all the time. But racism makes it so it happens to black people more.

Everyone gets judged and stereotyped for a myriad of reasons everyday. But racism makes it so it happens to black people more.

All of the injustices in our country hit the African American community at a greater rate because that hate for black people gives reason for people who commit those injustices to specifically target them.
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#34 » by Captain_Caveman » Sun Jun 7, 2020 5:55 pm

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:We cannot discuss the topic of George Floyd, systemic racism, police brutality, etc without bringing politics into it. That is like having a game thread without being able to discuss the players. Until we are allowed, my only comment in this thread is this:

Kudos to our players, and all other athletes, celebrities, and others who are using their platform to speak out against police brutality and systemic racism.


Totally agree. Going to sit this one out, lol.
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#35 » by Slax » Sun Jun 7, 2020 6:41 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
Slax wrote:
claycarver wrote:
I don't think we're paying cops enough to give everyone a free shot at them every day.

But to your point, absolutely. The first instinct should be de-escalation.


I agree nobody should get a "free shot" at cops, but as paid, trained, organized, respected agents of the state who are sworn to protect the safety of the public, I do think that we should have higher expectations of police compared to ordinary citizens to commit to attempting nonviolent deescalation even if it means taking some risks to their personal safety. It's clear with some of these killings of people who were no threat to the public like George Floyd, Breonna Taylor (even if there had been drug dealers at the household, would a no-knock midnight raid with guns blazing have been the best and safest approach?), and Philando Castile - as well as in the way police are indiscriminately spraying tear gas and shooting rubber bullets into crowds even at the relatively nonviolent protests in addition to actual violent riots - that the police see their core job as "suppress the criminals before they can do anything bad" rather than "manage the situation so that it has a peaceful outcome". And it's true that the former is sometimes the right approach, but frankly only a tiny, tiny minority of actual police interactions involve wild west quick shooter standoffs with violent criminals who are putting lives at stake, so even in cases where officers are afraid the situation could escalate, there has to be a sense of appropriate and proportionate response - or sometimes even less-than-proportionate response, to deescalate.

I don't think this means that police are an inherently destabilizing and oppressive institution, but I like to envision a future where police interact with the public in a way that makes them feel less like an occupying army putting down a violent insurrection, and more like a corps of peace officers with expertise in resolving disputes and making the public feel safe and at ease and protected. And honestly I think even some of the more modest reforms listed on 8cantwait.org like "require warning before shooting" would make a meaningful difference in making it feel like the police are there to protect the public instead of suppress them.

Editing to add: I think we actually saw a great example of how police should be treating the public at the armed anti-lockdown protests at government buildings in April and May. A lot of these protesters were clearly acting in extremely threatening ways - brandishing weapons, getting in officers' faces and shouting, making death threats to politicians - but to their credit, police didn't gear up in threatening-looking riot gear, and they did a great job of ignoring protesters instead of succumbing to shoving, beating, making mass arrests, spraying tear gas and rubber bullets, dispersing crowds, or shooting people. They got a lot of crap from the left for not doing more to actively intervene in these protests, but I actually think they handled it superbly, and that it helped contribute to the relatively peaceful resolution of those protests. I just think they should do more of that, even though it must be super scary and frustrating for them!


The really messed up thing is that in those lockdown protests they felt safer around those gun-toting looney tunes than they do in a group of black lives matters protestors.

But at the same time, I think all of us are in agreement that African Americans have every reason to hate and distrust the police after decades and decades of mistreatment. So it only stands to logic that they will hate and distrust the police. Which in turn only stands to logic that the police will therefore feel more threatened by them.

Until the police no longer feel threatened by African Americans I don't think the African American community can ever grow to trust and respect the police force. But for as long as the African American community distrusts and hates the police, I don't think the police will ever not see them as a heightened threat to their own safety. I think we need to focus on rebuilding the trust between the different communities.

I agree. I think the idea that the police all supported those protests is a little off. I imagine very few of them enjoyed having people invade their personal space, wave guns around, shout at them, etc. But as an abstraction, this is a question of who police see as the community stakeholders they have sworn to protect and serve. Police correctly saw those right wing, mostly white anti-lockdown protesters as people they needed to protect, which led them to show admirable restraint and even take risks to their own safety in order to avoid needless escalation into chaos and violence. But they very frequently end up treating black folks and civil rights protestors as the people who they and the public need to be protected from, which leads to the core failure of using preemptive and disproportionate violence as a suppression tactic. To me, BLM is about getting societal buy-in to the idea that black people should get the same strong default presumption that they deserve to be protected that most white people do, rather than the current situation where there is a hair trigger to presume that they are aggressors who need to be attacked and subdued in order to protect everyone else.
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#36 » by Waider » Sun Jun 7, 2020 11:08 pm

Let's hope that after this crazy start to 2020 we are fortunate enough to see real change going forward. As the father of a young daughter I hope she grows up in a world where everyone is treated with the love and respect they deserve.
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#37 » by Kemba For Three » Mon Jun 8, 2020 5:33 am

My only contribution to this thread.

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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#38 » by Parliament10 » Mon Jun 8, 2020 6:41 pm

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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#39 » by FlatearthZorro » Tue Jun 9, 2020 7:39 am

Love you guys, always have, always will, but the US is getting weirder and weirder to me. I do understand that Floyd was literally killed, but wasn't he a convicted felon, I'm not too informed on the subject, and I'm not saying that he deserved it, every LIFE out here matters, regardless of your skin color, education, or social status. What I'm getting at is that from what I read here and there, he's being portrayed as a hero. Also, I wrote it 10 times, I spent 4 months in the US, 9-10 years ago, I'm white, eastern European. When I saw police, the exact words I used were: "Yes, sir.", "No, sir", "thank you, sir". I was completely aware that in the US if you do value your life, you shouldn't mess with the police AT ALL.
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Re: OT: NBA & Celtics Speak Out Against Racism; George Floyd Thread (Non-Political) 

Post#40 » by Parliament10 » Tue Jun 9, 2020 8:56 am

FlatearthZorro wrote:Love you guys, always have, always will, but the US is getting weirder and weirder to me. I do understand that Floyd was literally killed, but wasn't he a convicted felon, I'm not too informed on the subject, and I'm not saying that he deserved it, every LIFE out here matters, regardless of your skin color, education, or social status. What I'm getting at is that from what I read here and there, he's being portrayed as a hero. Also, I wrote it 10 times, I spent 4 months in the US, 9-10 years ago, I'm white, eastern European. When I saw police, the exact words I used were: "Yes, sir.", "No, sir", "thank you, sir". I was completely aware that in the US if you do value your life, you shouldn't mess with the police AT ALL.

What does his criminal record have to do with anything?
The Man was killed, begging to breathe. Hero?

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