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OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton

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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#21 » by bucknersrevenge » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:06 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:I don't think he makes the roster lol.


What do you think becomes the problem in that scenario?
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#22 » by Captain_Caveman » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:24 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:I don't think he makes the roster lol.


What do you think becomes the problem in that scenario?


I don't see any problem. Cam was a beast in his day, but is probably a little washed up. Can't see him being a full-time starter anymore, or at least not a good one. Clear that he had no market at all among all 32 teams, and we got him on a no-risk, prove it contract. Maybe he outplays Stidham in camp, or maybe Stidham or Hoyer get hurt. But they would have to make moves to actually pay Cam any of those incentives.

I think going into camp with only two QBs is a bad plan, but that we would have addressed the position sooner if the Pats didn't actually believe in Stidham. They had every chance to do so, but wait until the end of June to bring in a guy on a minimum guaranteed salary, which they probably don't even have to pay if he isn't on the Team for Week 1? To me, he could be a starter if he can rekindle the magic, but I think it is more of an insurance policy.

With all that said, does it even matter? Pats are not a QB-centric team anymore, and the idea of all of this is to have three seasons of saving $20-25m a year on the salary cap vs what top QBs get paid. All that money will go to other positions, making the rest of our team stronger regardless of who is taking the snaps.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#23 » by bucknersrevenge » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:52 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:I don't think he makes the roster lol.


What do you think becomes the problem in that scenario?


I don't see any problem. Cam was a beast in his day, but is probably a little washed up. Can't see him being a full-time starter anymore, or at least not a good one. Clear that he had no market at all among all 32 teams, and we got him on a no-risk, prove it contract. Maybe he outplays Stidham in camp, or maybe Stidham or Hoyer get hurt. But they would have to make moves to actually pay Cam any of those incentives.

I think going into camp with only two QBs is a bad plan, but that we would have addressed the position sooner if the Pats didn't actually believe in Stidham. They had every chance to do so, but wait until the end of June to bring in a guy on a minimum guaranteed salary, which they probably don't even have to pay if he isn't on the Team for Week 1? To me, he could be a starter if he can rekindle the magic, but I think it is more of an insurance policy.

With all that said, does it even matter? Pats are not a QB-centric team anymore, and the idea of all of this is to have three seasons of saving $20-25m a year on the salary cap vs what top QBs get paid. All that money will go to other positions, making the rest of our team stronger regardless of who is taking the snaps.


Kinda disagree. He started out really good a couple of seasons ago but got hurt. The biggest issue is the foot injury he sustained against New England ironically a year ago. The shoulder, from what I hear is fine. He still looks like a tank. If that foot is still banged up where he can't plant and throw accurately it's definitely gonna be an issue. But as far as playbook goes, McDaniels is a smart enough mind to incorporate some of the RPO stuff he used with Tebow, some of the Norv Turner stuff that Newton used back in 2018 that will allow him to efficiently pick up the playbook.

The picking up of Newton was less about not believing in Stidham than it was Newton coming down on his price. I think Bill would've signed Newton earlier but we just didn't have the cap space. And that was about how much Bill liked Newton and his talent than anything else. And considering that Stidham spent his Auburn career in an RPO offense, he should be able to pick up the offense.

"Over the last two decades," Belichick said back in April, "everything we did, every single decision we made in terms of major planning, was made with the idea of how to make things best for Tom Brady . . . Whoever the quarterback is, we'll try to make things work smoothly and efficiently for that player and take advantage of his strengths and skills."

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/how-patriots-offense-can-cater-both-cam-newton-jarrett-stidham

Bill would argue that he's always been QB-centric but if you're talking fiscally speaking, we'll see after the season assuming Newton plays well. But either way Bill wins. If Newton plays well (and I think he will, pending injury) than after the season they talk about an extension and either they come to an agreement that works well for both sides or you've given Stidham one more season to get ready to take over.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#24 » by GoGreen » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:10 pm

Still miss Brady. Can't believe he's in the NFL and not in a patriots uniform. Bums me out tbh.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#25 » by Captain_Caveman » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:34 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
What do you think becomes the problem in that scenario?


I don't see any problem. Cam was a beast in his day, but is probably a little washed up. Can't see him being a full-time starter anymore, or at least not a good one. Clear that he had no market at all among all 32 teams, and we got him on a no-risk, prove it contract. Maybe he outplays Stidham in camp, or maybe Stidham or Hoyer get hurt. But they would have to make moves to actually pay Cam any of those incentives.

I think going into camp with only two QBs is a bad plan, but that we would have addressed the position sooner if the Pats didn't actually believe in Stidham. They had every chance to do so, but wait until the end of June to bring in a guy on a minimum guaranteed salary, which they probably don't even have to pay if he isn't on the Team for Week 1? To me, he could be a starter if he can rekindle the magic, but I think it is more of an insurance policy.

With all that said, does it even matter? Pats are not a QB-centric team anymore, and the idea of all of this is to have three seasons of saving $20-25m a year on the salary cap vs what top QBs get paid. All that money will go to other positions, making the rest of our team stronger regardless of who is taking the snaps.


Kinda disagree. He started out really good a couple of seasons ago but got hurt. The biggest issue is the foot injury he sustained against New England ironically a year ago. The shoulder, from what I hear is fine. He still looks like a tank. If that foot is still banged up where he can't plant and throw accurately it's definitely gonna be an issue. But as far as playbook goes, McDaniels is a smart enough mind to incorporate some of the RPO stuff he used with Tebow, some of the Norv Turner stuff that Newton used back in 2018 that will allow him to efficiently pick up the playbook.

The picking up of Newton was less about not believing in Stidham than it was Newton coming down on his price. I think Bill would've signed Newton earlier but we just didn't have the cap space. And that was about how much Bill liked Newton and his talent than anything else. And considering that Stidham spent his Auburn career in an RPO offense, he should be able to pick up the offense.

"Over the last two decades," Belichick said back in April, "everything we did, every single decision we made in terms of major planning, was made with the idea of how to make things best for Tom Brady . . . Whoever the quarterback is, we'll try to make things work smoothly and efficiently for that player and take advantage of his strengths and skills."

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/how-patriots-offense-can-cater-both-cam-newton-jarrett-stidham

Bill would argue that he's always been QB-centric but if you're talking fiscally speaking, we'll see after the season assuming Newton plays well. But either way Bill wins. If Newton plays well (and I think he will, pending injury) than after the season they talk about an extension and either they come to an agreement that works well for both sides or you've given Stidham one more season to get ready to take over.


I guess we will find out, but it definitely stands out to me that this is the only contract he could get, and it wasn't until the end of June. This guy's body is pretty beat up, and he has been pretty mediocre and inefficient over the last 4 seasons.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm

He's not a guy like Brady who gets the ball out inside of 3 seconds or who just throws it away when there's nothing there. He takes hits, and I'm skeptical he can do that over a full season anymore. Same was true of Gronk for his last couple of years with us, but we were basically able to make him a part-time player in the regular season before busting him out in the playoffs. I don't see how you can do the same "load management" at QB with a guy that has Newton's style.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#26 » by bucknersrevenge » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:03 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
I don't see any problem. Cam was a beast in his day, but is probably a little washed up. Can't see him being a full-time starter anymore, or at least not a good one. Clear that he had no market at all among all 32 teams, and we got him on a no-risk, prove it contract. Maybe he outplays Stidham in camp, or maybe Stidham or Hoyer get hurt. But they would have to make moves to actually pay Cam any of those incentives.

I think going into camp with only two QBs is a bad plan, but that we would have addressed the position sooner if the Pats didn't actually believe in Stidham. They had every chance to do so, but wait until the end of June to bring in a guy on a minimum guaranteed salary, which they probably don't even have to pay if he isn't on the Team for Week 1? To me, he could be a starter if he can rekindle the magic, but I think it is more of an insurance policy.

With all that said, does it even matter? Pats are not a QB-centric team anymore, and the idea of all of this is to have three seasons of saving $20-25m a year on the salary cap vs what top QBs get paid. All that money will go to other positions, making the rest of our team stronger regardless of who is taking the snaps.


Kinda disagree. He started out really good a couple of seasons ago but got hurt. The biggest issue is the foot injury he sustained against New England ironically a year ago. The shoulder, from what I hear is fine. He still looks like a tank. If that foot is still banged up where he can't plant and throw accurately it's definitely gonna be an issue. But as far as playbook goes, McDaniels is a smart enough mind to incorporate some of the RPO stuff he used with Tebow, some of the Norv Turner stuff that Newton used back in 2018 that will allow him to efficiently pick up the playbook.

The picking up of Newton was less about not believing in Stidham than it was Newton coming down on his price. I think Bill would've signed Newton earlier but we just didn't have the cap space. And that was about how much Bill liked Newton and his talent than anything else. And considering that Stidham spent his Auburn career in an RPO offense, he should be able to pick up the offense.

"Over the last two decades," Belichick said back in April, "everything we did, every single decision we made in terms of major planning, was made with the idea of how to make things best for Tom Brady . . . Whoever the quarterback is, we'll try to make things work smoothly and efficiently for that player and take advantage of his strengths and skills."

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/how-patriots-offense-can-cater-both-cam-newton-jarrett-stidham

Bill would argue that he's always been QB-centric but if you're talking fiscally speaking, we'll see after the season assuming Newton plays well. But either way Bill wins. If Newton plays well (and I think he will, pending injury) than after the season they talk about an extension and either they come to an agreement that works well for both sides or you've given Stidham one more season to get ready to take over.


I guess we will find out, but it definitely stands out to me that this is the only contract he could get, and it wasn't until the end of June. This guy's body is pretty beat up, and he has been pretty mediocre and inefficient over the last 4 seasons.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm

He's not a guy like Brady who gets the ball out inside of 3 seconds or who just throws it away when there's nothing there. He takes hits, and I'm skeptical he can do that over a full season anymore. Same was true of Gronk for his last couple of years with us, but we were basically able to make him a part-time player in the regular season before busting him out in the playoffs. I don't see how you can do the same "load management" at QB with a guy that has Newton's style.


You're definitely right here. He's not that guy. But because of his mobility, strength, and size, he's never had to be. What Bill is angling on is that there is a middle ground to extending plays, tucking and running, and just sitting in the pocket and throwing the ball away if you have nothing. It will be interesting to see who changes more. Newton to the Pats philosophy or the Pats offense to accommodate Newton's rare strengths and skills.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#27 » by BillTheGOAT » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:31 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:I don't think he makes the roster lol.


What do you think becomes the problem in that scenario?



With all that said, does it even matter? Pats are not a QB-centric team anymore, and the idea of all of this is to have three seasons of saving $20-25m a year on the salary cap vs what top QBs get paid. All that money will go to other positions, making the rest of our team stronger regardless of who is taking the snaps.

While it makes sense to spend money on the entire roster we only had about 1,5 million to spend so it is a massive haul if he can come back close to his 2015 season. Havent looked at our cap for next year but it should be alot more than this offseason.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#28 » by Captain_Caveman » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:39 pm

BillTheGOAT wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
What do you think becomes the problem in that scenario?



With all that said, does it even matter? Pats are not a QB-centric team anymore, and the idea of all of this is to have three seasons of saving $20-25m a year on the salary cap vs what top QBs get paid. All that money will go to other positions, making the rest of our team stronger regardless of who is taking the snaps.

While it makes sense to spend money on the entire roster we only had about 1,5 million to spend so it is a massive haul if he can come back close to his 2015 season. Havent looked at our cap for next year but it should be alot more than this offseason.


Didn't really apply to this season other than not having to dump Thuney and Sanu to accommodate Brady or another high-priced FA QB, but yes, it has been reported that being big FA players in 2021 and 2022 was part of the attraction of Stidham. We have something like the 6th most cap room next offseason as it stands.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#29 » by The_Ghost_of_JB » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:55 pm

Low risk but I agree with what Cave is saying. I don't think the guy is good any longer and has been underwhelming the past 4 or 5 seasons. Would not surprise me at all if he is cut before the season starts or ends up being a backup if they keep him around.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#30 » by bucknersrevenge » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:09 pm

The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:Low risk but I agree with what Cave is saying. I don't think the guy is good any longer and has been underwhelming the past 4 or 5 seasons. Would not surprise me at all if he is cut before the season starts or ends up being a backup if they keep him around.


Nothing would surprise me. I think he'll play well but I can't say I'd be 100% shocked if he got cut. I wouldn't be shocked though if he were to find himself in the AFC title game though either.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#31 » by threrf23 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:58 pm

I have some faith in him as a QB, but he's a bit of a diva and it is unclear how well he will adapt to the Patriot way, and how quickly he will adapt to the Pats' offense. If he has lost a step on top of those concerns, he is not the clearcut starter IMO.

He shares Stidham's alma mater, possibly an overlooked factor here.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#32 » by Curmudgeon » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:34 pm

LOL, the Newton signing draws attention away from the $1.1M fine and lost 3rd round draft choice that were imosed upon the Pats for illegal taping a Bengals practice.

Having said that, Newton's individual stats weren't that bad year before last, even though the Panthers had a losing record. But he never was a great passer. I wonder if the Pats missed the boat on Andy Dalton, who signed a similar one-year deal with the Cowboys.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#33 » by The_Ghost_of_JB » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:58 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:LOL, the Newton signing draws attention away from the $1.1M fine and lost 3rd round draft choice that were imosed upon the Pats for illegal taping a Bengals practice.

Having said that, Newton's individual stats weren't that bad year before last, even though the Panthers had a losing record. But he never was a great passer. I wonder if the Pats missed the boat on Andy Dalton, who signed a similar one-year deal with the Cowboys.


I'd still rather have Newton than Dalton. At least there is some chance, no matter how small it could be, Newton resembles his old self.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#34 » by bucknersrevenge » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:03 pm

threrf23 wrote:I have some faith in him as a QB, but he's a bit of a diva and it is unclear how well he will adapt to the Patriot way, and how quickly he will adapt to the Pats' offense. If he has lost a step on top of those concerns, he is not the clearcut starter IMO.

He shares Stidham's alma mater, possibly an overlooked factor here.


If you ask me I think the "Patriot Way" has become an outdated concept. I think just "do your job" is all that matters now and that's not anything that's Patriots unique.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#35 » by bucknersrevenge » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:07 pm

The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:LOL, the Newton signing draws attention away from the $1.1M fine and lost 3rd round draft choice that were imosed upon the Pats for illegal taping a Bengals practice.

Having said that, Newton's individual stats weren't that bad year before last, even though the Panthers had a losing record. But he never was a great passer. I wonder if the Pats missed the boat on Andy Dalton, who signed a similar one-year deal with the Cowboys.


I'd still rather have Newton than Dalton. At least there is some chance, no matter how small it could be, Newton resembles his old self.


That the signing was announced on the same day is 150% by design for sure. As for Dalton vs Newton, I think Bill has wanted to veer away from the kind of outdated "limited mobility" QB that Brady is and that Dalton is for some time now. I'm betting Bill had his eye on Newton the whole time but had to wait and see if Newton's price would come down further into free agency.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#36 » by jmr07019 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:29 pm

I like the signing. I'm not a big believer in Stidham and this move raises the ceiling of the team exponentially. It could fail miserably but it's just cap space.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#37 » by Bad-Thoma » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:31 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:I don't think he makes the roster lol.


I wouldn't be surprised either way. If he doesn't soundly beat out the other QB's in training camp, and I mean soundly, Bill will probably drop him for a cheaper vet and use that 7 million on depth and flexibility, as per usual.

edit: I have no idea of the Pats cap situation, haven't been following sports at all this spring, so I might be off base here.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#38 » by Captain_Caveman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:02 am

Bad-Thoma wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:I don't think he makes the roster lol.


I wouldn't be surprised either way. If he doesn't soundly beat out the other QB's in training camp, and I mean soundly, Bill will probably drop him for a cheaper vet and use that 7 million on depth and flexibility, as per usual.

edit: I have no idea of the Pats cap situation, haven't been following sports at all this spring, so I might be off base here.


We'd have to see the actual incentives. If I were to guess, I'd bet there are team/individual incentives (make Pro Bowl, make Super Bowl, pass for 3,000 yards), but knowing Belichick it is probably heavy on basic stuff like make initial roster, active on game days, games started, etc...

Given that they are already right up against the cap, the incentives on the Pats end are that he doesn't get them unless Stidham gets hurt, or Cam is just so far superior to him that you are willing to cut into next year's cap room, or create space this season by dumping Sanu, trade Thuney for below market value, restructure/extend Hightower, etc to fit his incentives under the cap. I don't see that happening unless Stidham just flames out completely.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#39 » by jcappy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:11 am

Because this is a one year contract for 1 million + incentives, he may do a bit more running this season (to impress for next season), which will make him a much greater threat. Interesting that his record against the Pats is 2-0--no doubt noted closely by BB.

If you're wondering why so little interest in him, well this deal has apparently been going down for a minimum of 2-3 weeks, and perhaps much longer.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#40 » by soxfan2003 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:57 am

I like the signing of Newton. Low cost gamble.

I kind of expect Newton to begin the year as the starter if the competition is close at all and then Stidham to get his chance when/if Newton gets injured or in a lot of 4th quarters if Patriots are losing by a lot or winning by a lot.

The Patriots now have 2 QB's on the roster that wouldn't surprise me if they won a playoff game next season. Not to disparage him but I just didn't see Hoyer as someone expected to have a realistic chance to do that.

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