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Scrimmage Thread – Celtics vs Rockets – 8PM, Tues., July 28, 2020

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Re: Scrimmage Thread – Celtics vs Rockets – 8PM, Tues., July 28, 2020 

Post#1081 » by djFan71 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:24 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Not that Stevens would and should listen to RealGM posters, but tightening the playoff rotation would be the stone that would hit the "Hayward isn't getting enough usage" and "stop playing Wanamaker" birds.

Kemba (34), Smart (14)
Brown (36), Smart (12)
Tatum (38), Smart (6), Ojeleye (4)
Hayward (36), Grant (8), Ojeleye (4)
Theis (28), Kanter (16), Grant (4)

...or something like that. Both Hayward and Smart can be ballhandlers (and better decision-makers) in the second unit. Whenever Kemba's off the floor or even when he's on, Gordon and/or Smart (or even Tatum) could initiate the offense. Play your best players as much as they can handle. That's what all the load management in the regular season is for.

If you want to reduce Kanter's minutes, sneak in a bit of Timelord. If you want more penetrators, insert Romeo in place of Semi.

FYI: Wanamaker only played a total of 17 minutes in 4 games last postseason and I'm guessing some of it came in garbage time.


Wanamaker in any of the 8 seeding games I'm completely comfortable with. Kemba needs his rest. I don't want to see Brad in the playoffs at all. Maybe for a minute or 2 at the end of a quarter to give Kemba a quick blow or make sure that a guy doesn't pick up a cheap foul or something but beyond that, no.

I wonder if Hayward really goes 36 min. If he's lower than that, there's a stretch for Wanamaker as a secondary ballhandler. Beyond that, I'm with you guys. Top 8 of starters, Smart, Kanter, Grant.
Matchup dependent small minutes for Wana/Semi/Romeo/Timelord.
Throw stuff at the wall minutes or garbage time for everyone else.
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Re: Scrimmage Thread – Celtics vs Rockets – 8PM, Tues., July 28, 2020 

Post#1082 » by Parliament10 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:47 pm

djFan71 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Not that Stevens would and should listen to RealGM posters, but tightening the playoff rotation would be the stone that would hit the "Hayward isn't getting enough usage" and "stop playing Wanamaker" birds.

Kemba (34), Smart (14)
Brown (36), Smart (12)
Tatum (38), Smart (6), Ojeleye (4)
Hayward (36), Grant (8), Ojeleye (4)
Theis (28), Kanter (16), Grant (4)

...or something like that. Both Hayward and Smart can be ballhandlers (and better decision-makers) in the second unit. Whenever Kemba's off the floor or even when he's on, Gordon and/or Smart (or even Tatum) could initiate the offense. Play your best players as much as they can handle. That's what all the load management in the regular season is for.

If you want to reduce Kanter's minutes, sneak in a bit of Timelord. If you want more penetrators, insert Romeo in place of Semi.

FYI: Wanamaker only played a total of 17 minutes in 4 games last postseason and I'm guessing some of it came in garbage time.


Wanamaker in any of the 8 seeding games I'm completely comfortable with. Kemba needs his rest. I don't want to see Brad in the playoffs at all. Maybe for a minute or 2 at the end of a quarter to give Kemba a quick blow or make sure that a guy doesn't pick up a cheap foul or something but beyond that, no.

I wonder if Hayward really goes 36 min. If he's lower than that, there's a stretch for Wanamaker as a secondary ballhandler. Beyond that, I'm with you guys. Top 8 of starters, Smart, Kanter, Grant.
Matchup dependent small minutes for Wana/Semi/Romeo/Timelord.
Throw stuff at the wall minutes or garbage time for everyone else.

This looks good. -- I actually would serious consider going with Waters in spot mins, rather than Wanamaker.
It all depends upon who continues to shine in these 8 Seeding games.
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Re: Scrimmage Thread – Celtics vs Rockets – 8PM, Tues., July 28, 2020 

Post#1083 » by Infinite Llamas » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:28 pm

SMTBSI wrote:
Infinite Llamas wrote:Wanamaker is a fourth string guard in reality but we often rely on him to be a back up one. I was watching the Orlando Denver game the other night and I saw how solid a guy like DJ Agustin is and I wonder why we can’t get a solid vet like that at the position. I know the Jameer Nelson thing blew up in our faces but guys like Tyus Jones, Ish Smith, Agustin would all be helpful to running our second unit. Ainge clearly has no interest in that archetype.

If we rely on Wanamaker for 15 minutes a night we might be in trouble

$8,408,000 Tyus Jones
$7,250,000 DJ Augustin
$5,853,659 Ish Smith
$1,445,697 Brad Wanamaker

It's not a matter of not being interested, it's a matter of what we could afford. Of course Ainge would take a better player if he could. But you don't get those kind of guys for the minimum. And you don't typically spend 8mil on your 3rd PG.


So I guess, the real issue is Ainge paying 30 million to Hayward and reducing him to a guy who spends half the game ball watching. Hayward did so much damage with the ball in his hands on Utah but he never gets much of a chance on this team. Why waste time with guys like Wanamaker and use Hayward more as a facilitator? Just because we’re capped out, doesn’t mean we need to rely on middling minimum talent like Wanamaker. Instead, we should be more creative with the pieces we have and maximize the talents of said pieces.
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Re: Scrimmage Thread – Celtics vs Rockets – 8PM, Tues., July 28, 2020 

Post#1084 » by SMTBSI » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:14 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:
Infinite Llamas wrote:Wanamaker is a fourth string guard in reality but we often rely on him to be a back up one. I was watching the Orlando Denver game the other night and I saw how solid a guy like DJ Agustin is and I wonder why we can’t get a solid vet like that at the position. I know the Jameer Nelson thing blew up in our faces but guys like Tyus Jones, Ish Smith, Agustin would all be helpful to running our second unit. Ainge clearly has no interest in that archetype.

If we rely on Wanamaker for 15 minutes a night we might be in trouble

$8,408,000 Tyus Jones
$7,250,000 DJ Augustin
$5,853,659 Ish Smith
$1,445,697 Brad Wanamaker

It's not a matter of not being interested, it's a matter of what we could afford. Of course Ainge would take a better player if he could. But you don't get those kind of guys for the minimum. And you don't typically spend 8mil on your 3rd PG.


So I guess, the real issue is Ainge paying 30 million to Hayward and reducing him to a guy who spends half the game ball watching. Hayward did so much damage with the ball in his hands on Utah but he never gets much of a chance on this team. Why waste time with guys like Wanamaker and use Hayward more as a facilitator? Just because we’re capped out, doesn’t mean we need to rely on middling minimum talent like Wanamaker. Instead, we should be more creative with the pieces we have and maximize the talents of said pieces.

These are the interesting questions to me. I'm pretty sure Brad was always going to play Wanamaker some because I think he wanted a third guard in the rotation for defensive reasons, but the offensive role questions you present are very valid. On paper, Kemba, Smart, and Hayward should have been able to soak the huge majority of primary ball handling minutes. It's probably worth pointing out that Hayward's AST% is a bit better than Wanamaker's, his TOV% substantially lower, and his assist/TO ratio almost exactly the same (sidenote: I'm not 100% clear on how the first two can be better but the third be the same...)

For the regular season, we've had a ten man rotation, with the starters, Smart, Kanter, Wanamaker, Grant and Semi. The last three of those are fairly fringy as NBA talent goes (at least at this exact moment in time), and no one else has really been playable in serious situations. So, we pretty much played who we had to. I wouldn't want to go much lower than a 10-man rotation for the grind of an NBA season.

Given that we pretty much needed everyone we had, I wonder if there was some politics involved. Perhaps Stevens was giving Wanamaker a larger role to keep him gruntled, but plans on tightening things up in the playoffs, where an ~8.5 man rotation is a little more ideal.

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