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If not Brad, who?

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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#141 » by Spizite » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:09 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:I'm just responding to posts saying he did a poor job this year, as if the only thing missing is Curry. I normally would have just quoted who I was responding to but then I feel like **** gets overquoted here and half the page is just quote boxes. I have no point except to point out how horrific the roster they had this year. He had the worst roster I've ever seen and I don't think most realize just how awful it was. Wow, they had Wiggins and D-Lo for stretches, great, now add in 150 minutes per game of g-league talent around them. I don't care if he's a good coach, great coach, bad coach, whatever, just they had the absolute worst roster I've seen in a while. Legit had one of the worst seasons of all time in Jordan Poole on his roster. Like 80% of the minutes went to players who wouldn't normally be getting NBA minutes under any kind of circumstance. I watch too much basketball and I don't know like 75% of the players I listed because it's insane to know ever minor career g leaguer like Mychal Mulder.


Well Green played 2/3rds of the year and what do you mean they had Wiggins / Russell for stretches? They had the combined for the full year. So for 2/3rds of the year they had 2 borderline all stars players in Green / Russell. Wiggins got traded Feb. 6 and Green's last 30 min game was Feb 12 so the timing of when they had Green / Russell lines up.

How can you possibly say that they had just as low talent as the Bobcats 7-59 season, the Process 76ers teams that were actively trying to lose. That Bobcats team had rookie Kemba and that was it while the 76ers teams were actively made up of bad players. I won't beat this dead horse any longer but the Warriors had two very good players for 2/3rds of the season and they were complete garbage. Kerr didn't do anything to make that team better than it was and frankly they had a better roster than a few of the other bad teams last year

Here's at least a couple teams that were worse than the Warriors from a talent perspective
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/6/19/21296103/top-5-worst-nba-teams-decade

My point is that you're exaggerating how bad the Warriors roster was. There have been much worse and he had at least talent on there with Russell + Green for most of the year as well as a few failed lottery picks in Chriss / Cauley-Stein
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#142 » by ConstableGeneva » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:01 pm

Read on Twitter

LOL what an outright lie and backpedaling job. This dude was killing Stevens as recent as last offseason after the Kyrie debacle.

Also, Brad might be the only "overrated coach" who has yet to be voted as COTY.
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#143 » by Bleeding Green » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:04 pm

Wiggins is terrible, Draymond was terrible this year. Played 43 games. D-Lo is a high volume, low efficiency shooter who does nothing else. D-Lo/Wiggins combined for 45 games. I dunno what to say. Jordan Poole put up a top-5 worst season of all time. Ky Bowman started 12 games. Glenn Robinson led them in minutes played and probably wouldn't beat out Javonte Green for 15th man on the Celtics. Two of their best players were WCS and Chriss? Two players with a playstyle that is not relevant in the NBA. I don't think there was a single player who played in the second half of the season that I'd want on the Celtics for free. They were so strapped they had to sign Jeremy Pargo, who has been out of the NBA for 7 years.

I don't even think Kerr is good or bad, the second half of this GSW season was just something else with 10-day after 10-day scrapheap signing after another and they lost their top 6 players (Curry, Green, Thompson, Looney, Durant, Iguodala) from the previous season and didn't replace any of them with a single NBA average player save for Wiggins and D-Lo, who I think suck out loud in terms of contributing to a winning team.
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#144 » by 3D Chess » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:17 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:LOL what an outright lie and backpedaling job. This dude was killing Stevens as recent as last offseason after the Kyrie debacle.

Also, Brad might be the only "overrated coach" who has yet to be voted as COTY.

Up there with Nate Duncan's bizarre Tatum vendetta.
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#145 » by Cuban Pete » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:51 am

tlee324 wrote:I'm not entirely on board with the "fire Brad" crowd, but always open to new ideas and willing to see this team upgrading wherever it can.

This team is still young, but that reasoning is dwindling fast. They are on the verge of turning the corner, and some have tossed around the theory that Brad is better with a team of "try-hards" and will fall short with a more championship-ready roster.

Who do you see as the right fit if Brad isn't your guy?







(I looked to see if there were any similar threads, didn't see any. Mods please feel free to merge as necessary.)


My favorite coach is one that has a GM who knows how to draft and can scout out diamonds in the rough.
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#146 » by King Of The 4th » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:10 am

Think its safe to say that coach isn't Doc Rivers
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#147 » by BostonCouchGM » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:22 am

Cuban Pete wrote:
tlee324 wrote:I'm not entirely on board with the "fire Brad" crowd, but always open to new ideas and willing to see this team upgrading wherever it can.

This team is still young, but that reasoning is dwindling fast. They are on the verge of turning the corner, and some have tossed around the theory that Brad is better with a team of "try-hards" and will fall short with a more championship-ready roster.

Who do you see as the right fit if Brad isn't your guy?







(I looked to see if there were any similar threads, didn't see any. Mods please feel free to merge as necessary.)


My favorite coach is one that has a GM who knows how to draft and can scout out diamonds in the rough.


so basically we're screwed then?
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#148 » by ConstableGeneva » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:51 am

More Nurse-Stevens stuff...

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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#149 » by Ernest » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:17 pm

Anyone else super happy we are farther than Doc got? I get why Doc wanted out, and I liked Stevens more almost from the get go so I couldn't stay mad at Doc for long... but.... Doc didn't want a rebuild and now we arguably have the better team. He walked on us to go to a team that was already good. Then got gifted star players. And yet we are still better. To win a title before him would be great. Should have had some faith in the team and in Danny Doc.
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#150 » by Fencer reregistered » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:30 pm

Ernest wrote:Anyone else super happy we are farther than Doc got?


No, but only because it's common. :)

This is our third time in the ECF since Brad has been here. The Clippers haven't been in the WCF, ever, in all of franchise history.
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#151 » by ConstableGeneva » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:37 pm

People who have been saying that sometimes we overrate the impact of a coach in team success (by that I mean winning a title) are correct.

Would we suddenly view Frank Vogel as an elite coach if the Lakers win the title when he was rarely in the convo for years? Then there's Doc who's underachieved almost every year since he moved to LA. If Brad and Doc switched rosters, would the results still be the same? If the issue with the Clippers (or Celtics w/ Kyrie) was chemistry, is that a coaching problem? Or something the players should work out within themselves?

Bottomline for me: Give me a top 5 player + regular good coach over an elite coach + top 8-15 player if we want to win a title. I would trade Stevens & Kemba for Stotts & Lillard right now if that's even possible.

I will take this all back in mid-October after we win in 6 against the Lakers.
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#152 » by Bleeding Green » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:40 pm

Ernest wrote:Anyone else super happy we are farther than Doc got? I get why Doc wanted out, and I liked Stevens more almost from the get go so I couldn't stay mad at Doc for long... but.... Doc didn't want a rebuild and now we arguably have the better team. He walked on us to go to a team that was already good. Then got gifted star players. And yet we are still better. To win a title before him would be great. Should have had some faith in the team and in Danny Doc.

The Celtics have had the better team since 2016. Doc will never win another championship. He barely squeaked one out with KG, Allen, Pierce, Rondo, and probably wouldn't have if Thibodeau weren't there.
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#153 » by Taget » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:02 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:People who have been saying that sometimes we overrate the impact of a coach in team success (by that I mean winning a title) are correct.

Would we suddenly view Frank Vogel as an elite coach if the Lakers win the title when he was rarely in the convo for years? Then there's Doc who's underachieved almost every year since he moved to LA. If Brad and Doc switched rosters, would the results still be the same? If the issue with the Clippers (or Celtics w/ Kyrie) was chemistry, is that a coaching problem? Or something the players should work out within themselves?

Bottomline for me: Give me a top 5 player + regular good coach over an elite coach + top 8-15 player if we want to win a title. I would trade Stevens & Kemba for Stotts & Lillard right now if that's even possible.

I will take this all back in mid-October after we win in 6 against the Lakers.


My counterpoint is look at the pre-Phil Jackson Lakers. They were good of course. But fell short even with Kobe, Shaq, etc. But Phil instantly got the team to work better together and achieve better focus and won. An elite coach can have an impact. However without the pieces (and we saw that with Phil when he was playing without Shaq prior to the Pau Gasol trade) that simply is not good enough.

Mike Fratello is a really underrated coach who got the best out of every team he coached. Unfortunately that usually meant getting really awful teams to the cusp or over the finish line to being a 7th or 8th seed. Which is why of course he ended up being fired when teams realized these really rotten team should be in the lottery getting real talent rather than overachieving for nothing. This actually was a concern about Stevens some had when we were suddenly looking almost respectable with Evan Turner as our best player. It's a shame Fratello never got to prove himself with a team that had the tools to actually go somewhere.

On the flip side some players just don't need or want a certain degree of coaching. And are better off with a coach who let's them do their thing and is more of a diplomat who helps keep everyone's egos at bay. Which you could argue was Doc during our championship year. But certainly KC Jones wasn't there because he was the best x's and o's coach available. He knew when Bird said he wanted the damn ball... give Bird the damn ball!

But for most teams and most players you need both. The necessary talent and an elite coach to go with them.
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#154 » by Cuban Pete » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:08 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:
Cuban Pete wrote:
tlee324 wrote:I'm not entirely on board with the "fire Brad" crowd, but always open to new ideas and willing to see this team upgrading wherever it can.

This team is still young, but that reasoning is dwindling fast. They are on the verge of turning the corner, and some have tossed around the theory that Brad is better with a team of "try-hards" and will fall short with a more championship-ready roster.

Who do you see as the right fit if Brad isn't your guy?







(I looked to see if there were any similar threads, didn't see any. Mods please feel free to merge as necessary.)


My favorite coach is one that has a GM who knows how to draft and can scout out diamonds in the rough.


so basically we're screwed then?


I don't think so. I'm an optimist in a way that I truly believe that you can build a champion sans elite FAs and high lottery picks. The '04 Pistons and '15 Warriors are proof of this. Ainge has been a mixed bag when it comes to drafting from the mid-1st through the 2nd rounds. He needs to do a lot better.

Just to add, I'm a follower of the 3-point revolution. Yet it seems that Danny and Brad are on the fence, at best.
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#155 » by TheMartian » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:51 pm

I think it's fair to say Danny and Brad both have their flaws, and refusing to recognize these flaws is just blind homerism. They're what we have as Celtic fans, and we have to stick with them through thick and thin, but it doesn't mean they can't be called out for their mistakes, as no one should be above criticism.
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#156 » by Cuban Pete » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:56 pm

One man is not getting the criticism he deserves. Wic. That the Cs extended Stevens at the start of the playoffs while he's still on the balance scale, tells me that Wic is fat and happy with the team's competitiveness.
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Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#157 » by Bleeding Green » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:36 pm

Yeah he should be pissed about the coach who got to the ECF three out of the last four years.
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