ImageImageImage

If not Brad, who?

Moderators: sully00, djFan71, ParticleMan, Froob, canman1971, The Comedian, Parliament10

hugepatsfan
Pro Prospect
Posts: 953
And1: 743
Joined: May 28, 2020
       

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#121 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:22 pm

Pop without Duncan, D-Rob and/or Kawhi... terrible team that got the 1 overall pick, 8 seed lost in 1st round, missed playoffs.

Spo is getting out of the second round for the first time of his life without Lebron and/or Wade (and had only been to the 2nd round once entering this playoffs without those guys).

Bud has never made the finals even with a league MVP in Giannis now.

Nurse won it all last year with Kawhi. Now a second round exit.

Kerr without Curry = worst record in the NBA.

Phil Jackson never even wanted to waste time coaching without Kobe or MJ.

How have Doc's teams looked in the playoffs with the Clippers?

In general I think we overrate coaches. All of these guys who are "championship coaches" vs Stevens not being one were never championship coaches when they didn't have top 20 players of all time. Not sure Brad has ever had a definitive top 20 player in the game at any one time, never mind all time, unless you only judge this year from January on with Tatum.
User avatar
ConstableGeneva
RealGM
Posts: 30,727
And1: 59,134
Joined: Sep 22, 2012
Location: Parody Account
 

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#122 » by ConstableGeneva » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:01 pm

Read on Twitter
User avatar
Bleeding Green
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,343
And1: 8,274
Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Location: Atlantic Champs OMG OMG OMG!

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#123 » by Bleeding Green » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:10 pm

Imagine what the Celtics would be right now if not for Doc wanting to go coach for Donald Sterling. Probably be mired in a series of 40 win seasons getting bounced in the first round every year.
Manocad wrote:I have an engineering degree, an exceptionally high IQ, and can point to the exact location/area of any country on an unlabeled globe.
LuckyLeprechaun
Pro Prospect
Posts: 784
And1: 930
Joined: Jul 24, 2015
 

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#124 » by LuckyLeprechaun » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:16 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
Kerr without Curry = worst record in the NBA.


This one is a little unfair. He was without Curry and Klay for the whole year and Draymond for a 3rd of the year. I think literally every coach would have a terrible record with their top 3 guys missing that much time.
hugepatsfan
Pro Prospect
Posts: 953
And1: 743
Joined: May 28, 2020
       

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#125 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:22 pm

LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
Kerr without Curry = worst record in the NBA.


This one is a little unfair. He was without Curry and Klay for the whole year and Draymond for a 3rd of the year. I think literally every coach would have a terrible record with their top 3 guys missing that much time.


Even before Dray got hurt though... They had D-Lo, an all star last year who led the Nets to the playoffs, and a DPOY in Draymond Green, and were still TERRIBLE. Worst in the league. With an all star guard and a DPOY they were worse than teams like CHA, the Knicks, the Pistons without Drummond. I'm not saying it's fair to expect them to be good, but it's fair to argue that they shouldn't have been worst team in the league IMO.
User avatar
Bleeding Green
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,343
And1: 8,274
Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Location: Atlantic Champs OMG OMG OMG!

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#126 » by Bleeding Green » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:28 pm

Not to make excuses for Kerr, but he was having to play Jordan Poole, Ky Bowman, Eric Paschall, Damion Lee, Marquese Chriss rotation minutes. And then Mychal Mulder, Dragan Bender, Juan Toscano-Anderson, Chasson Randle, Zach Norvell played rotation minutes when more players got hurt or traded/released. How many of these guys do you think will be playing next year? Probably none, maybe Paschall as 9th/10th man. Worst roster in the league this year no doubt. Jordan Poole put up one of the worst seasons of all time. They didn't just lose Curry and Thompson. It was probably the worst roster in the NBA in quite a while. Imagine the Celtics losing Tatum (Curry), Brown (Klay), Walker (Dray), Smart (Looney) and then Hayward in FA (Durant). And you're over the cap so you can only sign g leaguers. Suddenly Carsen Edwards is the starting point guard and you're on the phone with RJ Hunter's agent to see if he can start tomorrow.
Manocad wrote:I have an engineering degree, an exceptionally high IQ, and can point to the exact location/area of any country on an unlabeled globe.
User avatar
grindtime22
Analyst
Posts: 3,010
And1: 3,007
Joined: Jan 30, 2012
     

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#127 » by grindtime22 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:36 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:The only way Stevens gets replaced is if he wants to leave. Ainge knows how good Stevens is, and that's why they put a new set of golden handcuffs on him every other year. I don't love everything Stevens does, but he's the best coach in the NBA after Popovich.

He's not a demonstrative coach but neither was Larry Brown. Speaking of Brown, the absolute greatest coaching job in NBA history was Brown getting the Clippers to the playoffs in 1991 and 1992. That team had Danny Manning and a bunch of retreads. In 1992 Brown won 41 games but they didn't renew his contract. The next year, with basically the same roster plus Dominique Wilkins (who averaged nearly 30 ppg), the team won 27 games under Bob Weiss. It went from 11th overall defensively to 27th-- dead last.


LOL Bob Weiss

I remember the Sonics letting McMillan walk after he did an unbelievable job getting them to the 2nd round with Allen/Lewis and a bunch of scrubs. Good old Howard Shultz replaced him with Bob Weiss, who lasted 30 games, and the Sonics were never good again.
MagicBagley18
Head Coach
Posts: 6,748
And1: 8,224
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
   

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#128 » by MagicBagley18 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:42 pm

LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:I’m doing this off the top of my head half in the bag but pop,Kerr,spo,Carlisle those are the top 4 universally I’d say...then there’s doc and nurse. At worst that makes him 7 but again that’s at worst. unless I’m having a serious brain fart


I wouldn't put Rivers in my top 30.


A bit harsh, but yeah Doc has no business being in the discussion of top coaches. His Magic and Clippers teams both underachieved. No excuse for this years Clippers team to be in a game 7 against the Nuggets or a game 6 against a banged up Mavs team. This Clippers team was considered an even bet with the Lakers and Bucks to win the title this year and they are struggling to put away lesser opponents. His CP3/Blake/DJ teams were also considered contenders for a few years and never did anything in the playoffs.


I agree they have underperformed....but they aren’t dead. If the beat the nuggets and the lakers and win a ring in the finals no one will care ab them struggling against lesser opponents in the postseason. The 08 team struggle against the hawks, no one give a flying f about it today.

They are down, they are disappointing but they aren’t out
djFan71
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 8,174
And1: 8,781
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
 

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#129 » by djFan71 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:01 pm

grindtime22 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:The only way Stevens gets replaced is if he wants to leave. Ainge knows how good Stevens is, and that's why they put a new set of golden handcuffs on him every other year. I don't love everything Stevens does, but he's the best coach in the NBA after Popovich.

He's not a demonstrative coach but neither was Larry Brown. Speaking of Brown, the absolute greatest coaching job in NBA history was Brown getting the Clippers to the playoffs in 1991 and 1992. That team had Danny Manning and a bunch of retreads. In 1992 Brown won 41 games but they didn't renew his contract. The next year, with basically the same roster plus Dominique Wilkins (who averaged nearly 30 ppg), the team won 27 games under Bob Weiss. It went from 11th overall defensively to 27th-- dead last.


LOL Bob Weiss

I remember the Sonics letting McMillan walk after he did an unbelievable job getting them to the 2nd round with Allen/Lewis and a bunch of scrubs. Good old Howard Shultz replaced him with Bob Weiss, who lasted 30 games, and the Sonics were never good again.

I boycott Starbucks to this day.
LuckyLeprechaun
Pro Prospect
Posts: 784
And1: 930
Joined: Jul 24, 2015
 

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#130 » by LuckyLeprechaun » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:07 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
Kerr without Curry = worst record in the NBA.


This one is a little unfair. He was without Curry and Klay for the whole year and Draymond for a 3rd of the year. I think literally every coach would have a terrible record with their top 3 guys missing that much time.


Even before Dray got hurt though... They had D-Lo, an all star last year who led the Nets to the playoffs, and a DPOY in Draymond Green, and were still TERRIBLE. Worst in the league. With an all star guard and a DPOY they were worse than teams like CHA, the Knicks, the Pistons without Drummond. I'm not saying it's fair to expect them to be good, but it's fair to argue that they shouldn't have been worst team in the league IMO.


All this assumes they weren't actually tanking on purpose.
LuckyLeprechaun
Pro Prospect
Posts: 784
And1: 930
Joined: Jul 24, 2015
 

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#131 » by LuckyLeprechaun » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:08 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:Not to make excuses for Kerr, but he was having to play Jordan Poole, Ky Bowman, Eric Paschall, Damion Lee, Marquese Chriss rotation minutes. And then Mychal Mulder, Dragan Bender, Juan Toscano-Anderson, Chasson Randle, Zach Norvell played rotation minutes when more players got hurt or traded/released. How many of these guys do you think will be playing next year? Probably none, maybe Paschall as 9th/10th man. Worst roster in the league this year no doubt. Jordan Poole put up one of the worst seasons of all time. They didn't just lose Curry and Thompson. It was probably the worst roster in the NBA in quite a while. Imagine the Celtics losing Tatum (Curry), Brown (Klay), Walker (Dray), Smart (Looney) and then Hayward in FA (Durant). And you're over the cap so you can only sign g leaguers. Suddenly Carsen Edwards is the starting point guard and you're on the phone with RJ Hunter's agent to see if he can start tomorrow.


We had a year where we lost Hayward for the whole season and Kyrie for the last 2 months and playoffs and we still went to a game 7 in the ECF. Not as extreme as what the Warriors had, but that season pretty much proved Brad is a really good coach.
User avatar
Parliament10
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 28,516
And1: 29,198
Joined: Jul 24, 2009
       

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#132 » by Parliament10 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:14 pm

LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:Not to make excuses for Kerr, but he was having to play Jordan Poole, Ky Bowman, Eric Paschall, Damion Lee, Marquese Chriss rotation minutes. And then Mychal Mulder, Dragan Bender, Juan Toscano-Anderson, Chasson Randle, Zach Norvell played rotation minutes when more players got hurt or traded/released. How many of these guys do you think will be playing next year? Probably none, maybe Paschall as 9th/10th man. Worst roster in the league this year no doubt. Jordan Poole put up one of the worst seasons of all time. They didn't just lose Curry and Thompson. It was probably the worst roster in the NBA in quite a while. Imagine the Celtics losing Tatum (Curry), Brown (Klay), Walker (Dray), Smart (Looney) and then Hayward in FA (Durant). And you're over the cap so you can only sign g leaguers. Suddenly Carsen Edwards is the starting point guard and you're on the phone with RJ Hunter's agent to see if he can start tomorrow.


We had a year where we lost Hayward for the whole season and Kyrie for the last 2 months and playoffs and we still went to a game 7 in the ECF. Not as extreme as what the Warriors had, but that season pretty much proved Brad is a really good coach.

Yep. Smart was out for a bit too.
All we had was Terry Rozier, and Shane Larkin, for PG's.
"It's not about me, it's about the Team."
~ Marcus Smart
User avatar
Bleeding Green
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,343
And1: 8,274
Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Location: Atlantic Champs OMG OMG OMG!

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#133 » by Bleeding Green » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:49 pm

LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:Not to make excuses for Kerr, but he was having to play Jordan Poole, Ky Bowman, Eric Paschall, Damion Lee, Marquese Chriss rotation minutes. And then Mychal Mulder, Dragan Bender, Juan Toscano-Anderson, Chasson Randle, Zach Norvell played rotation minutes when more players got hurt or traded/released. How many of these guys do you think will be playing next year? Probably none, maybe Paschall as 9th/10th man. Worst roster in the league this year no doubt. Jordan Poole put up one of the worst seasons of all time. They didn't just lose Curry and Thompson. It was probably the worst roster in the NBA in quite a while. Imagine the Celtics losing Tatum (Curry), Brown (Klay), Walker (Dray), Smart (Looney) and then Hayward in FA (Durant). And you're over the cap so you can only sign g leaguers. Suddenly Carsen Edwards is the starting point guard and you're on the phone with RJ Hunter's agent to see if he can start tomorrow.


We had a year where we lost Hayward for the whole season and Kyrie for the last 2 months and playoffs and we still went to a game 7 in the ECF. Not as extreme as what the Warriors had, but that season pretty much proved Brad is a really good coach.

Yeah Brad is a great coach. He didn't have the worst roster in the NBA by a country mile. The Warriors had the worst roster I've seen since like that 7 win Bobcats team.
Manocad wrote:I have an engineering degree, an exceptionally high IQ, and can point to the exact location/area of any country on an unlabeled globe.
User avatar
Celts17Pride
RealGM
Posts: 44,167
And1: 29,851
Joined: Nov 27, 2005

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#134 » by Celts17Pride » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:26 pm

This thread going to look pretty silly in a few weeks :wink:
User avatar
ConstableGeneva
RealGM
Posts: 30,727
And1: 59,134
Joined: Sep 22, 2012
Location: Parody Account
 

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#135 » by ConstableGeneva » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:59 am

The only season a Stevens-coached team didn't overachieve was the Kyrie-stained 2018-19 season. This is not even a hot take.
Slax
Analyst
Posts: 3,358
And1: 4,298
Joined: Jul 08, 2010
Location: New York
       

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#136 » by Slax » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:20 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:The only season a Stevens-coached team didn't overachieve was the Kyrie-stained 2018-19 season. This is not even a hot take.

Other than that season and the tank season where we ended up with the Smart pick, I think I agree. Even that year where we lost to the Hawks in the first round, I feel like they significantly outperformed what people were expecting in the preseason. The roster was really thin in the IT years.

Incidentally, Brad has only been here seven seasons, and already it feels like there have been like four distinct "eras" with completely different teams in that time: tank era, IT era, Kyrie era, and Kemba/Tatum era.
Spizite
Sophomore
Posts: 184
And1: 46
Joined: Jun 29, 2010
     

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#137 » by Spizite » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:23 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:
LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:Not to make excuses for Kerr, but he was having to play Jordan Poole, Ky Bowman, Eric Paschall, Damion Lee, Marquese Chriss rotation minutes. And then Mychal Mulder, Dragan Bender, Juan Toscano-Anderson, Chasson Randle, Zach Norvell played rotation minutes when more players got hurt or traded/released. How many of these guys do you think will be playing next year? Probably none, maybe Paschall as 9th/10th man. Worst roster in the league this year no doubt. Jordan Poole put up one of the worst seasons of all time. They didn't just lose Curry and Thompson. It was probably the worst roster in the NBA in quite a while. Imagine the Celtics losing Tatum (Curry), Brown (Klay), Walker (Dray), Smart (Looney) and then Hayward in FA (Durant). And you're over the cap so you can only sign g leaguers. Suddenly Carsen Edwards is the starting point guard and you're on the phone with RJ Hunter's agent to see if he can start tomorrow.


We had a year where we lost Hayward for the whole season and Kyrie for the last 2 months and playoffs and we still went to a game 7 in the ECF. Not as extreme as what the Warriors had, but that season pretty much proved Brad is a really good coach.

Yeah Brad is a great coach. He didn't have the worst roster in the NBA by a country mile. The Warriors had the worst roster I've seen since like that 7 win Bobcats team.


I don't understand your argument. Yea he had a lot of injuries and he had the worst record in the league. What point are you trying to make here? He overachieved by having the worst record? He won 15 games when he should have won 14 lol?

He still had Draymond + Russell / Wiggins for much of the year and were still the worst team when they were playing. If he made the playoffs or was at all in the mix then I might understand bringing up Kerr but they still had two good players and were awful even when they weren't injured. Where is us having Russell / Wiggins in your run down of player equivalents? You give Brad the Russell / Wiggins equivalent + Theis + Rwill and the rookies and there's no way we end up with the worst record in the league

Compare that the Brad's 2013-2014 season which was the only season he has ever missed the playoffs and tell me how GS's roster weighted for games played doesn't have more talent. Boston had a .305 winning % vs. GS this year of .231.

Kerr's a great coach no doubt. Same with Pop and Spo but they all have their warts. I don't understand all the dickriding going on in this thread though - Stevens is right up there with them in terms of ability. He's obviously not perfect but he is going to be the coach for a long time.

This is what the Cavs said after his second year when he made the playoffs with pure role players - this all still applies in my view

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/15356168/brad-stevens-next-superstar-head-coach
Spizite
Sophomore
Posts: 184
And1: 46
Joined: Jun 29, 2010
     

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#138 » by Spizite » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:28 pm

LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
Kerr without Curry = worst record in the NBA.


This one is a little unfair. He was without Curry and Klay for the whole year and Draymond for a 3rd of the year. I think literally every coach would have a terrible record with their top 3 guys missing that much time.


We missed Irving / Hayward for most of the year and they were 2 of our top 3 with Horford and still took the Cavs to 7 and led in the 4th quarter. Even if you account for East / West - that doesn't compute to Kerr having the worst record in the league by 4-6 games. They still had Deangelo Russell and Draymond for the most of the year and were terrible when they were playing

Again Kerr is a great coach but he has a lower floor than Stevens
User avatar
Bleeding Green
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,343
And1: 8,274
Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Location: Atlantic Champs OMG OMG OMG!

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#139 » by Bleeding Green » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:45 pm

Spizite wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:
LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
We had a year where we lost Hayward for the whole season and Kyrie for the last 2 months and playoffs and we still went to a game 7 in the ECF. Not as extreme as what the Warriors had, but that season pretty much proved Brad is a really good coach.

Yeah Brad is a great coach. He didn't have the worst roster in the NBA by a country mile. The Warriors had the worst roster I've seen since like that 7 win Bobcats team.


I don't understand your argument. Yea he had a lot of injuries and he had the worst record in the league. What point are you trying to make here? He overachieved by having the worst record? He won 15 games when he should have won 14 lol?

He still had Draymond + Russell / Wiggins for much of the year and were still the worst team when they were playing. If he made the playoffs or was at all in the mix then I might understand bringing up Kerr but they still had two good players and were awful even when they weren't injured. Where is us having Russell / Wiggins in your run down of player equivalents? You give Brad the Russell / Wiggins equivalent + Theis + Rwill and the rookies and there's no way we end up with the worst record in the league

Compare that the Brad's 2013-2014 season which was the only season he has ever missed the playoffs and tell me how GS's roster weighted for games played doesn't have more talent. Boston had a .305 winning % vs. GS this year of .231.

Kerr's a great coach no doubt. Same with Pop and Spo but they all have their warts. I don't understand all the dickriding going on in this thread though - Stevens is right up there with them in terms of ability. He's obviously not perfect but he is going to be the coach for a long time.

This is what the Cavs said after his second year when he made the playoffs with pure role players - this all still applies in my view

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/15356168/brad-stevens-next-superstar-head-coach

I'm just responding to posts saying he did a poor job this year, as if the only thing missing is Curry. I normally would have just quoted who I was responding to but then I feel like **** gets overquoted here and half the page is just quote boxes. I have no point except to point out how horrific the roster they had this year. He had the worst roster I've ever seen and I don't think most realize just how awful it was. Wow, they had Wiggins and D-Lo for stretches, great, now add in 150 minutes per game of g-league talent around them. I don't care if he's a good coach, great coach, bad coach, whatever, just they had the absolute worst roster I've seen in a while. Legit had one of the worst seasons of all time in Jordan Poole on his roster. Like 80% of the minutes went to players who wouldn't normally be getting NBA minutes under any kind of circumstance. I watch too much basketball and I don't know like 75% of the players I listed because it's insane to know ever minor career g leaguer like Mychal Mulder.
Manocad wrote:I have an engineering degree, an exceptionally high IQ, and can point to the exact location/area of any country on an unlabeled globe.
User avatar
3D Chess
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,349
And1: 7,729
Joined: Mar 17, 2017
Location: Brooklyn
 

Re: If not Brad, who? 

Post#140 » by 3D Chess » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:38 pm

Would also be fair to say that Kerr wasn't coaching that team to maximize wins, but to find out who (if anybody) on the roster could be useful when Curry and Klay return to the fold.

Return to Boston Celtics