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Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract!

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What should be the next step after Hayward opts in?

Remain on team for another Playoff run
9
17%
Traded on draft night
22
42%
Traded at deadline
1
2%
Theres a belief Hayward and team wants to help facilitate a trade
11
21%
Should sign a team friendly extension
10
19%
 
Total votes: 53

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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#181 » by SmartWentCrazy » Thu Oct 1, 2020 8:19 pm

BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Our team had to do a PowerPoint presentation before the KG trade and signing to convince the group of owners to sign off on it. Wyc also had to mortgage his house to be able to afford putting a down payment on the Celtics. Our owners aren't cheap, but they aren't billionaires either. I'd do anything to get under the luxury tax now so we avoid the repeater tax down the road when Jayson and Jaylen are in their primes. If that move includes trading Hayward, then so be it.


Agreed. Theres a difference between expecting ownership to pay a tax with some of their operating profit and expecting ownership to take a loss in the 10’s of millions of dollars due to the tax.


We can get under the tax next year by letting Hayward leave and making other moves. That's not the problem. The problem is trading Hayward for C level pieces THIS year and possibly **** up our chances at competing THIS year out of tax fears for the future.

These guys knew the financial issues they had coming when they signed Kemba. It's not like this is a surprise situation.. We knew JB and JT were max guys and we would eventually have 4..surely there is a plan in place to save it without having to trade our key guy for Seth Curry, Dwight Powell and a late 1st.


And thats the problem! Youre sacrificing years of Jaylen and Jaysons prime to just let Hayward walk. Its a spectacularly poor use of assets. We will not be able to replace Hayward if he walks and will be relegated to adding MLE players over the course of several years.

Our best players are 22 and 23 years old. We just made the ECF without Hayward. Keep **** building. Dont be so myopic.
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#182 » by BRUNiNHO91 » Thu Oct 1, 2020 8:27 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Agreed. Theres a difference between expecting ownership to pay a tax with some of their operating profit and expecting ownership to take a loss in the 10’s of millions of dollars due to the tax.


We can get under the tax next year by letting Hayward leave and making other moves. That's not the problem. The problem is trading Hayward for C level pieces THIS year and possibly **** up our chances at competing THIS year out of tax fears for the future.

These guys knew the financial issues they had coming when they signed Kemba. It's not like this is a surprise situation.. We knew JB and JT were max guys and we would eventually have 4..surely there is a plan in place to save it without having to trade our key guy for Seth Curry, Dwight Powell and a late 1st.


And thats the problem! Youre sacrificing years of Jaylen and Jaysons prime to just let Hayward walk. Its a spectacularly poor use of assets. We will not be able to replace Hayward if he walks and will be relegated to adding MLE players over the course of several years.

Our best players are 22 and 23 years old. We just made the ECF without Hayward. Keep **** building. Dont be so myopic.


How is keeping Hayward over getting Seth Curry, trash and a late pick sacrificing years of Jaylen and Jayson? If anything, you make that deal and you sacrificed next year as the team gets significantly worse without him. We will still have 3 max contracts and only be able to add mle players regardless. It's not poor use of assets..it's maximizing an A level asset for a year over 2 C level ones and a mystery box that could very well end up being another Yabusele.
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#183 » by ConstableGeneva » Thu Oct 1, 2020 8:32 pm

Doc could just help us out and agree to an Embiid-for-Hayward swap.
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#184 » by SmartWentCrazy » Thu Oct 1, 2020 8:37 pm

BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
We can get under the tax next year by letting Hayward leave and making other moves. That's not the problem. The problem is trading Hayward for C level pieces THIS year and possibly **** up our chances at competing THIS year out of tax fears for the future.

These guys knew the financial issues they had coming when they signed Kemba. It's not like this is a surprise situation.. We knew JB and JT were max guys and we would eventually have 4..surely there is a plan in place to save it without having to trade our key guy for Seth Curry, Dwight Powell and a late 1st.


And thats the problem! Youre sacrificing years of Jaylen and Jaysons prime to just let Hayward walk. Its a spectacularly poor use of assets. We will not be able to replace Hayward if he walks and will be relegated to adding MLE players over the course of several years.

Our best players are 22 and 23 years old. We just made the ECF without Hayward. Keep **** building. Dont be so myopic.


How is keeping Hayward over getting Seth Curry, trash and a late pick sacrificing years of Jaylen and Jayson? If anything, you make that deal and you sacrificed next year as the team gets significantly worse without him. We will still have 3 max contracts and only be able to add mle players regardless. It's not poor use of assets..it's maximizing an A level asset for a year over 2 C level ones and a mystery box that could very well end up being another Yabusele.


Keeping for 1 year then letting him go is sacrificing future years.

And Hayward isnt an A level asset. He’s a guy overqualified to be a fourth option whos role unfortunately caps the impact he can have on our team.

But **** it, lets go all in for this season. Screw building an actual bench or adding a high volume elite 3pt shooter. Lets run our guys into the ground in the playoffs cuz itll definitely result in something different next season. How could it not?
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#185 » by BRUNiNHO91 » Thu Oct 1, 2020 8:52 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
And thats the problem! Youre sacrificing years of Jaylen and Jaysons prime to just let Hayward walk. Its a spectacularly poor use of assets. We will not be able to replace Hayward if he walks and will be relegated to adding MLE players over the course of several years.

Our best players are 22 and 23 years old. We just made the ECF without Hayward. Keep **** building. Dont be so myopic.


How is keeping Hayward over getting Seth Curry, trash and a late pick sacrificing years of Jaylen and Jayson? If anything, you make that deal and you sacrificed next year as the team gets significantly worse without him. We will still have 3 max contracts and only be able to add mle players regardless. It's not poor use of assets..it's maximizing an A level asset for a year over 2 C level ones and a mystery box that could very well end up being another Yabusele.


Keeping for 1 year then letting him go is sacrificing future years.

And Hayward isnt an A level asset. He’s a guy overqualified to be a fourth option whos role unfortunately caps the impact he can have on our team.

But **** it, lets go all in for this season. Screw building an actual bench or adding a high volume elite 3pt shooter. Lets run our guys into the ground in the playoffs cuz itll definitely result in something different next season. How could it not?


Maybe me and you see Hayward differently. His impact on the floor with this team is significantly higher than whatever bench piece we will get in a trade.

If you are trading him for a starting C or a stud who can grow with JT and JB, I'm game. Bench pieces? No thanks.
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#186 » by Homerclease » Fri Oct 2, 2020 12:01 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
djFan71 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:D) unless you expect out ownership group to pay Prokhorov levels of tax, we cannot afford to re-sign him. Even if we somehow convince him to take 20M [guessing thats south by 5-8M], our top 5 will take up 120M in cap space. There is no ‘lets see what happens’ — its either lose him for nothing or trade Smart or Jaylen to make room for the 31 year old Hayward.

Didn't we have that convo with taking Wiggins' salary back? That was my objection to a Wiggins deal is I thought it would ultimately be a lose Smart scenario after this year. But, I thought you'd run the #s and said it was OK to deal with that for a year or 2 even with his salary which would be more than a resigned Hayward. Might be remembering all of that wrong, though.


I was wrong on everything. Cap hits after Hayward expires:

Kemba: 36
Brown: 25
Smart: 14
Tatum at 30%: 33

Total: 108.

We re-sign Hayward? Will balloon above 130. Tax will be 135 or so. Its just untenable.

I move Kemba before Hayward. His knee is a time bomb. I’m not for moving either this year
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#187 » by ConstableGeneva » Fri Oct 2, 2020 6:34 am

Relevant: Hayward's deadline to opt in falls on Timelord and Sexpants' birthday.
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#188 » by djFan71 » Fri Oct 2, 2020 8:04 am

ConstableGeneva wrote:Relevant: Hayward's deadline to opt in falls on Timelord and Sexpants' birthday.

We gotta ramp up our rampant speculation game. That’s only a few weeks away!
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#189 » by ConstableGeneva » Fri Oct 2, 2020 9:37 am

djFan71 wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Relevant: Hayward's deadline to opt in falls on Timelord and Sexpants' birthday.

We gotta ramp up our rampant speculation game. That’s only a few weeks away!

Finding it hard to find a reasonable trade for Hayward -- combo of logical destination, decent return, and right fit.

Anyway, it would be REALLY nice if someone young on the roster has a Herro-or-MPJ type of emergence next season. A rookie or sophomore who at worst could be a 6th man type in the playoffs. (Oh, Brandon Clarke, what could have been.) That's why one of the biggest priorities this offseason is to ramp up the Williamses development -- maybe give Grant a bit more offensive responsibility and drill defense into the head of Timelord. It's a shame Langford is injured and would miss another offseason of improvement.

I'd be interested to see what the Nuggets do with their free agents (Millsap, Plumlee, Craig, and Grant) and whether they try to keep the same group that made the conference finals.
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#190 » by ConstableGeneva » Fri Oct 2, 2020 11:15 am

Assuming Gordon opts in, he stays healthy for once but remains as the 4th option, and becomes a UFA season after next, what's he looking at in terms of next contract from another team? $70/3 years at ages 32 to 34?
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#191 » by SmartWentCrazy » Fri Oct 2, 2020 1:08 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:Assuming Gordon opts in, he stays healthy for once but remains as the 4th option, and becomes a UFA season after next, what's he looking at in terms of next contract from another team? $70/3 years at ages 32 to 34?


Guessing more— one of the teams looking for a legit name that strikes out on the other tier 1 or tier 2 FAs will overpay to ensure they get him.

Said differently, i dont see him signing for less than what Horford did. Especially because the revenue curve will be more optimistic one year out.
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#192 » by JHTruth » Fri Oct 2, 2020 2:24 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Assuming Gordon opts in, he stays healthy for once but remains as the 4th option, and becomes a UFA season after next, what's he looking at in terms of next contract from another team? $70/3 years at ages 32 to 34?


Guessing more— one of the teams looking for a legit name that strikes out on the other tier 1 or tier 2 FAs will overpay to ensure they get him.

Said differently, i dont see him signing for less than what Horford did. Especially because the revenue curve will be more optimistic one year out.


That's one of the reasons I believe Hayward will ASK for a trade. He's not going to want 4th option money. He needs a much bigger role to justify a Horford level deal. We won't resign him. There is no way Danny repeats the Kyrie mistake. Hayward is being moved.
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#193 » by MagicBagley18 » Fri Oct 2, 2020 2:47 pm

JHTruth wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Assuming Gordon opts in, he stays healthy for once but remains as the 4th option, and becomes a UFA season after next, what's he looking at in terms of next contract from another team? $70/3 years at ages 32 to 34?


Guessing more— one of the teams looking for a legit name that strikes out on the other tier 1 or tier 2 FAs will overpay to ensure they get him.

Said differently, i dont see him signing for less than what Horford did. Especially because the revenue curve will be more optimistic one year out.


That's one of the reasons I believe Hayward will ASK for a trade. He's not going to want 4th option money. He needs a much bigger role to justify a Horford level deal. We won't resign him. There is no way Danny repeats the Kyrie mistake. Hayward is being moved.


To be fair horford got a great deal averaging 13&6....if Hayward stays healthy puts up 17 6 &5 flirting with 50 40 90....some one will pay him his ask- especially if they strike out on any big fish. Hayward can get his money being a 4 th option here if the teams winning a lot f game’s and he’s healthy.

Not to mention if he is healthy and the team goes on a deep run to the finals- people will say he was what was missing in this years playoff run
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#194 » by batabatuta » Fri Oct 2, 2020 4:15 pm

The only scenario where Hayward remains a Celtic next season is if he was so madly in love with Brad Stevens he'd do anything not be separated from him. Writings on the wall, he will be moved.
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#195 » by BRUNiNHO91 » Fri Oct 2, 2020 5:31 pm

Idk if anybody has posted this. From Gary Washburn

And none of those players were quite good enough in this series. Gordon Hayward was supposed to make a difference but he was hardly 100 percent, and that affected the Celtics’ approach. According to an NBA source, Hayward sustained nerve and retinaculum damage in that sprained ankle and he could barely jump. He needed about two-plus more weeks of rehab that the Celtics just didn’t have. So he played on one leg.


This is why I personally don't believe we trade him. It could very well be another Isaiah situation where it really burns us with future free agents if we move on from him after this and after he missed his kids birth to play while injured. It just doesn't sound like a guy who doesn't see himself in the long term plan of the team. Unless he asks for a trade, I don't see it happening.
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#196 » by JHTruth » Fri Oct 2, 2020 5:45 pm

BRUNiNHO91 wrote:Idk if anybody has posted this. From Gary Washburn

And none of those players were quite good enough in this series. Gordon Hayward was supposed to make a difference but he was hardly 100 percent, and that affected the Celtics’ approach. According to an NBA source, Hayward sustained nerve and retinaculum damage in that sprained ankle and he could barely jump. He needed about two-plus more weeks of rehab that the Celtics just didn’t have. So he played on one leg.


This is why I personally don't believe we trade him. It could very well be another Isaiah situation where it really burns us with future free agents if we move on from him after this and after he missed his kids birth to play while injured. It just doesn't sound like a guy who doesn't see himself in the long term plan of the team. Unless he asks for a trade, I don't see it happening.


Yeah we'll see. One of the unfortunate facts is that his contract is like 6th highest salary. We're talking CP3/Blake level salaries to match the money. Or take several players back. He may just be here until next year for no other reason than we can't find a salary we want in return..
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#197 » by ConstableGeneva » Fri Oct 2, 2020 11:55 pm

What's the last NBA trade that involved a player of Hayward's calibre in a true expiring season?

Closest recent comp I could find was Tobias Harris (21/8/3 on 50/43/88 splits; obviously younger) going from Clippers to the Sixers. Quite a haul for LAC -- Shamet, Muscala, Chandler, two 1st round picks, two future 2nds. Feels like this instance is a rarity and more exception than the rule. You'd need to find a team that's desperate and going all-in. LOL Philly gave up all that for a 2nd round exit and the right to super overpay Tobias.

Then there's Jordan Clarkson who got traded to Utah for Exum and two 2nds. Obviously notches below Hayward but I can't recall recent trades for expiring players (no options).
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#198 » by playa-hater » Sat Oct 3, 2020 4:57 am

I see no one is even giving the possibility that Hayward doesn't opt in, (maybe a long shot but possible) and Hayward signs a decent 4 year contract elsewhere, like Indy or Utah.. leaving Boston with nada..
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#199 » by BostonCouchGM » Sat Oct 3, 2020 5:40 am

ConstableGeneva wrote:What's the last NBA trade that involved a player of Hayward's calibre in a true expiring season?

Closest recent comp I could find was Tobias Harris (21/8/3 on 50/43/88 splits; obviously younger) going from Clippers to the Sixers. Quite a haul for LAC -- Shamet, Muscala, Chandler, two 1st round picks, two future 2nds. Feels like this instance is a rarity and more exception than the rule. You'd need to find a team that's desperate and going all-in. LOL Philly gave up all that for a 2nd round exit and the right to super overpay Tobias.

Then there's Jordan Clarkson who got traded to Utah for Exum and two 2nds. Obviously notches below Hayward but I can't recall recent trades for expiring players (no options).


lots of rebuilding teams with cap space would take on his salary so they can trade him at the deadline for picks or many might want him long term so they trade for him to entice him to sign with them. Kawhi was an expiring contract when traded to TOR (along with Danny Green) wasn't he? The Spurs received DeRozan, Poeltl, and draft pick that ended up being Keldon Johnson. And it's not really all that much different than AD, George and others that tell ownership they won't re-sign after the following season. Those were great trades for each of those organization even though all the supposed experts hated the returns at the time. A Hayward trade would get us back more than people believe imho. He'd be the best player on a handful of teams and the second best on most others.
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Re: Hayward Likely to OPT-IN to final year of contract! 

Post#200 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Oct 3, 2020 7:34 am

I'm seeing a lot of posts in this thread that fit a familiar template:

"Surely Ainge will make a big ________ deal. It would be crazy not to do so."

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