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bucknersrevenge wrote:

playa-hater wrote:

bucknersrevenge wrote:
I think that as much as anything tell you that he's not ready yet. And you know what? That's okay. He will get more opportunities in the future. His defense is coming around and that's a really nice development so far.

His not ready yet was still outplaying others (Teague the latest) and was really energetic and productive. But even if you differ on that point, I have the "only way to get ready is to play him". He is after all our much needed lottery pick that was drafted at a position/skill of need. Plus the others are never going to be a part of our future (Teague/Edwards/Waters/Green and possibly add Semi/Grant. The reasons to play him far out weigh any reasons to sit him by a good margin IMO.

I get your point I think. And when I say that he isn't ready, to clarify, what I mean is that he isn't ready to OWN a permanent place in the rotation yet. Nesmith doesn't have the credibility to suggest that Brad should abandon trying other guys on occasion to see if they can steal productive minutes off the bench. He WILL get minutes again. But Smart will be back soon and Langford after that. Brad was always going to need to play a number of guys. Let alone, we make even a small trade.

One of these days I may write about my experiences with College coaches and what I learned about differing philosophies regarding young talent and developing them. As of now the only "cliff notes" I want to share is that I learned a bit with Coach Jay Wright (Villanova) in short if he recruited a player, he wouldn't hesitate to "throw him into the fire" and play him through his mistakes. Why I asked. His response, was something along the lines "we need him to be ready sooner than later" and "we will need him to be ready to win it all"

That player was Ryan Arcidiacono. He struggled mightily in his freshman year and I actually thought he was "not on that level". Despite that he started and played near 30 min per right off the bat. A few years later he was named MVP of the national championship game and currently plays for Chicago Bulls. That is only one of many examples of that kind of philosophy. I have seen many other coaches take the opposite approach as well. Many coaches are too afraid to go "through the growing pains of trial by fire" for the greater good.

Ryan was not heavily recruited on Villanova's level, but Coach Wright recognized Ryan's talent and potential. He wasn't afraid to go against the grain and see the "big picture"

The short version is the philosophies and fundamentals taught by Jay Wright (more than any other I learned from) are what I believe in most and his players seemingly turn out to be better than advertised on the next level.

FWIW.

I'm happy he got his run when he did. Not going to complain about rotations if we're winning and they guys taking those available minutes are doing something with them.

Can't deny that he's still a little lost out there. Doesn't look nearly as lost as he did originally, but in terms of getting into the flow of the offense specifically, he's just not comfortable asserting himself. Hopefully he grows into it in time.

I will say I'm a little surprised by the all or nothing approach. One thing about Nesmith that I really like is his ability to shoot off screens and in motion. I feel like that talent could be utilized a bit better without having to feed him minutes. Especially coming out of timeouts where Brad can draw up a set and let him get to one of his spots off a down screen etc. This team is often lacking that scoring punch outside our big 3 and Aaron feels like a guy who could manufacture a bucket here or there even if you're only giving him around 5 minutes in that game.



It'll be interesting to see how he responds when he does get minutes again after being fed them for a handful of games and then back to DNP-CD.

playa-hater wrote:

bucknersrevenge wrote:

Fencer reregistered wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out how he played 22 minutes in a game without ever getting a shot up.

Especially since he's an energetic player.

I think that as much as anything tell you that he's not ready yet. And you know what? That's okay. He will get more opportunities in the future. His defense is coming around and that's a really nice development so far.

His not ready yet was still outplaying others (Teague the latest) and was really energetic and productive. But even if you differ on that point, I have the "only way to get ready is to play him". He is after all our much needed lottery pick that was drafted at a position/skill of need. Plus the others are never going to be a part of our future (Teague/Edwards/Waters/Green and possibly add Semi/Grant. The reasons to play him far out weigh any reasons to sit him by a good margin IMO.

Disagree. We are in a win now mode. Look at the impatient fans even here that are calling for Danny and Brad’s heads. It’s a f’n joke.

Nesmith wasn’t impacting winning when given the chance. He will get his opportunity when season and in blow out games.

return2glory wrote:

playa-hater wrote:

bucknersrevenge wrote:
I think that as much as anything tell you that he's not ready yet. And you know what? That's okay. He will get more opportunities in the future. His defense is coming around and that's a really nice development so far.

His not ready yet was still outplaying others (Teague the latest) and was really energetic and productive. But even if you differ on that point, I have the "only way to get ready is to play him". He is after all our much needed lottery pick that was drafted at a position/skill of need. Plus the others are never going to be a part of our future (Teague/Edwards/Waters/Green and possibly add Semi/Grant. The reasons to play him far out weigh any reasons to sit him by a good margin IMO.

Disagree. We are in a win now mode. Look at the impatient fans even here that are calling for Danny and Brad’s heads. It’s a f’n joke.

Nesmith wasn’t impacting winning when given the chance. He will get his opportunity when season and in blow out games.

The way Ainge talks doesn’t make it sound like this team is anywhere ready to compete, he’s basically admitted it. And Ainge has already chose developing these late picks over addressing the bench so there isn’t any reason why he shouldn’t play him. How many rookies have you also seen make a jump through only garbage minutes?

return2glory wrote:Disagree. We are in a win now mode. Look at the impatient fans even here that are calling for Danny and Brad’s heads. It’s a f’n joke.

Nesmith wasn’t impacting winning when given the chance. He will get his opportunity when season and in blow out games.

In fairness to Nesmith I'd say he was impacting winning on the same level that Semi or Grant or Javonte did, which is to say not that much. I don't think swapping any of those trio around in terms of minutes is going to make a world of difference and probably doesn't make a difference to the wins and losses over that span.

Semi and Javonte are obviously more reliable at this stage in terms of knowing the system and being in better defined/understood roles, so I think it's fair to say they've got an edge on him. But I think if they are impacting winning more than what Nesmith was doing it was marginal at best.

I totally understand going with those two for consistency's sake though, especially while trying to right the ship and Aaron having had multiple games where he decided to be a wall flower offensively.

Patsfan1081 wrote:

return2glory wrote:

playa-hater wrote:
His not ready yet was still outplaying others (Teague the latest) and was really energetic and productive. But even if you differ on that point, I have the "only way to get ready is to play him". He is after all our much needed lottery pick that was drafted at a position/skill of need. Plus the others are never going to be a part of our future (Teague/Edwards/Waters/Green and possibly add Semi/Grant. The reasons to play him far out weigh any reasons to sit him by a good margin IMO.

Disagree. We are in a win now mode. Look at the impatient fans even here that are calling for Danny and Brad’s heads. It’s a f’n joke.

Nesmith wasn’t impacting winning when given the chance. He will get his opportunity when season and in blow out games.

The way Ainge talks doesn’t make it sound like this team is anywhere ready to compete, he’s basically admitted it. And Ainge has already chose developing these late picks over addressing the bench so there isn’t any reason why he shouldn’t play him. How many rookies have you also seen make a jump through only garbage minutes?

Honestly Ainge can talk all he wants. Brad Stevens is a top 5 coach in this league. And he is about winning. I’m sure it was Ainge or or Wyc that asked Brad to play Nesmith when Nesmith was getting all those DNPs.

Brad all of the sudden starts playing him about 25 minutes a game. That was suspicious so it had to have been forced. Then, when were were losing left and right, Brad said this isn’t workin. Nesmith goes back to the bench and we win 3 straight.

Again, it wasn’t Nesmith’s fault we were losing. But he wasn’t helping either. And no his isn’t going to develop during garbage time and the Celtics aren’t a development team. He can wait for the offseason to work on his game and study film and be ready. The short off season hurt Nesmith the most because he was injured coming in.

This season in the East, only a a few games separates a 4th seed from a 10th seed, Brad doesn’t have time to wait on a rookie to develop. PP is ready, Nesmith isn’t. I think he will be ready going into his 2nd year.

We need to get on a hot streak and win now. Then Danny needs to get a solid player for the 2nd half for a playoff push. Danny can’t give up on this team like he did last season by not adding to that weak bench. Despite that, Brad took us to the ECF.

return2glory wrote:

Patsfan1081 wrote:

return2glory wrote:

Disagree. We are in a win now mode. Look at the impatient fans even here that are calling for Danny and Brad’s heads. It’s a f’n joke.

Nesmith wasn’t impacting winning when given the chance. He will get his opportunity when season and in blow out games.

The way Ainge talks doesn’t make it sound like this team is anywhere ready to compete, he’s basically admitted it. And Ainge has already chose developing these late picks over addressing the bench so there isn’t any reason why he shouldn’t play him. How many rookies have you also seen make a jump through only garbage minutes?

Honestly Ainge can talk all he wants. Brad Stevens is a top 5 coach in this league. And he is about winning. I’m sure it was Ainge or or Wyc that asked Brad to play Nesmith when Nesmith was getting all those DNPs.

Brad all of the sudden starts playing him about 25 minutes a game. That was suspension so it had to never forced. Then, when were were losing left and right, Brad said this isn’t workin. Nesmith goes back to the bench and we win 3 straight.

Again, it wasn’t Nesmith’s fault we were losing. But he wasn’t helping either. And no his isn’t going to develops during garbage time and the Celtics aren’t a development team. We can wait for the offseason to work on his game and study film and be ready. The shirt off season hurt Nesmith the most because he was injured coming in.

When this season in the East, only a a few games separates a 4th seed from a 10th seed, Brad doesn’t have time to wait on a rookie to develop. PP is ready, Nesmith isn’t. I think he will be ready going into his 2nd year.

We need to get on a hot streak and win now. Then Danny needs to get a solid player for the 2nd half for a playoff push. Danny can’t give up on this team like he did last season by not adding to that weak bench. Despite that, Brad took us to the ECF.

I imagine there have been sequences like:
-- Ainge: "What do you think about guy X?"
-- Stevens: "I don't really know what we have in him. The data is insufficient to this point in his career."
-- Ainge: "That's too bad. I need to make some decisions by the trade deadline."
-- Stevens: "I'll see what I can reasonably do about getting more data before then."

return2glory wrote:

playa-hater wrote:

bucknersrevenge wrote:
I think that as much as anything tell you that he's not ready yet. And you know what? That's okay. He will get more opportunities in the future. His defense is coming around and that's a really nice development so far.

His not ready yet was still outplaying others (Teague the latest) and was really energetic and productive. But even if you differ on that point, I have the "only way to get ready is to play him". He is after all our much needed lottery pick that was drafted at a position/skill of need. Plus the others are never going to be a part of our future (Teague/Edwards/Waters/Green and possibly add Semi/Grant. The reasons to play him far out weigh any reasons to sit him by a good margin IMO.

Disagree. We are in a win now mode. Look at the impatient fans even here that are calling for Danny and Brad’s heads. It’s a f’n joke.

Nesmith wasn’t impacting winning when given the chance. He will get his opportunity when season and in blow out games.

Playing guys like Teague, Semi, J Green, Edwards, Grant Williams and you say we are in win now mode?

Nesmith's current play is at or better than most of those guys, especially when factoring defense. toping that his potential is certainly higher. even the treat of his shooting alone helps space the team better. you say he wasn't impacting winning when he played and yet Boston lost a ton when he hadn't played as well.

And why would anyone call for Danny and Brad's head?? is it because we are playing 500 ball? Going in the wrong direction? had ample opportunities to improve the team but didn't? Or how about seeing teams like the Net's rise above us after fleecing them of a ton of draft picks?

Or maybe only one title in 34 years??? you're right, what a joke.

Nesmith's time will come. For the first couple months his TS% was at 44% with 16% usage. In February he went up to 67% TS with his usage halved at 8%. He's just not ready for a major role. He seems to have all the tools, just not ready to play a role on a team with playoff aspirations

He hasn’t played a minute since going down in a heap in the first half against the Pacers.

Maybe he’s hurt but on the trade block so the team doesn’t want to say anything about it #DeepStateGM

playa-hater wrote:

return2glory wrote:

playa-hater wrote:
His not ready yet was still outplaying others (Teague the latest) and was really energetic and productive. But even if you differ on that point, I have the "only way to get ready is to play him". He is after all our much needed lottery pick that was drafted at a position/skill of need. Plus the others are never going to be a part of our future (Teague/Edwards/Waters/Green and possibly add Semi/Grant. The reasons to play him far out weigh any reasons to sit him by a good margin IMO.

Disagree. We are in a win now mode. Look at the impatient fans even here that are calling for Danny and Brad’s heads. It’s a f’n joke.

Nesmith wasn’t impacting winning when given the chance. He will get his opportunity when season and in blow out games.

Playing guys like Teague, Semi, J Green, Edwards, Grant Williams and you say we are in win now mode?

Nesmith's current play is at or better than most of those guys, especially when factoring defense. toping that his potential is certainly higher. even the treat of his shooting alone helps space the team better. you say he wasn't impacting winning when he played and yet Boston lost a ton when he hadn't played as well.

And why would anyone call for Danny and Brad's head?? is it because we are playing 500 ball? Going in the wrong direction? had ample opportunities to improve the team but didn't? Or how about seeing teams like the Net's rise above us after fleecing them of a ton of draft picks?

Or maybe only one title in 34 years??? you're right, what a joke.

Yes win mode. That’s exactly what I’m saying. If you notice over the past week or so, Edwards hasn’t been playing. Grant hardly plays. And the only reason Green played one game was because because Brown missed that game.

People are calling for Brad and Danny’s head because they are being unreasonable. Same people that wanted Kemba traded.

What did fans think was going to happen this season after we lost Hayward and got nothing back at the moment? What did people think was going to happen with Kemba? I’ve said over a month that Kemba would get back to Kemba near last February or early March and he has been averaging 22 points a game over his last 8. That’s the reason we are .500 along with Smart missing half the season.

The Nets are an outlier. The only reason they are making any noise is because That former Celtic player went their and recruited his buddy KD. Then KD got Harden there.

Boston is not a city that many star players want to go to. Our best free agent signing in the past 30 plus years was Hayward. Before that was a reclining Horford, who was a 14 and 7 guy when he got here.

Meanwhile the Lakers get guys like Shaq and AD because players love playing in LA. If the Celtics got another GM, they wouldn’t magically be getting stars to come to Boston. That’s just the reality unfortunately.

Danny needs to do better. Last few years here hasn’t had great success with all those picks. Rob is coming around. PP is going to be a player. Jury is out on guys like Grant, Romeo and Nesmith even though it’s too early.

return2glory wrote:

Patsfan1081 wrote:

return2glory wrote:

Disagree. We are in a win now mode. Look at the impatient fans even here that are calling for Danny and Brad’s heads. It’s a f’n joke.

Nesmith wasn’t impacting winning when given the chance. He will get his opportunity when season and in blow out games.

The way Ainge talks doesn’t make it sound like this team is anywhere ready to compete, he’s basically admitted it. And Ainge has already chose developing these late picks over addressing the bench so there isn’t any reason why he shouldn’t play him. How many rookies have you also seen make a jump through only garbage minutes?

Honestly Ainge can talk all he wants. Brad Stevens is a top 5 coach in this league. And he is about winning. I’m sure it was Ainge or or Wyc that asked Brad to play Nesmith when Nesmith was getting all those DNPs.

Brad all of the sudden starts playing him about 25 minutes a game. That was suspension so it had to never forced. Then, when were were losing left and right, Brad said this isn’t workin. Nesmith goes back to the bench and we win 3 straight.

Again, it wasn’t Nesmith’s fault we were losing. But he wasn’t helping either. And no his isn’t going to develops during garbage time and the Celtics aren’t a development team. We can wait for the offseason to work on his game and study film and be ready. The shirt off season hurt Nesmith the most because he was injured coming in.

When this season in the East, only a a few games separates a 4th seed from a 10th seed, Brad doesn’t have time to wait on a rookie to develop. PP is ready, Nesmith isn’t. I think he will be ready going into his 2nd year.

We need to get on a hot streak and win now. Then Danny needs to get a solid player for the 2nd half for a playoff push. Danny can’t give up on this team like he did last season by not adding to that weak bench. Despite that, Brad took us to the ECF.

I agree I think Danny forced his hand with Nesmith which points to a bigger concern that they aren’t on the same page. Danny should have made a move at the last deadline when they east was wide open and maybe possibly saved giving away a late first(which turned into Bane ). Feels like he hasn’t picked a lane, I don’t really see a different outcome upcoming.

return2glory wrote:

playa-hater wrote:

return2glory wrote:

Disagree. We are in a win now mode. Look at the impatient fans even here that are calling for Danny and Brad’s heads. It’s a f’n joke.

Nesmith wasn’t impacting winning when given the chance. He will get his opportunity when season and in blow out games.

Playing guys like Teague, Semi, J Green, Edwards, Grant Williams and you say we are in win now mode?

Nesmith's current play is at or better than most of those guys, especially when factoring defense. toping that his potential is certainly higher. even the treat of his shooting alone helps space the team better. you say he wasn't impacting winning when he played and yet Boston lost a ton when he hadn't played as well.

And why would anyone call for Danny and Brad's head?? is it because we are playing 500 ball? Going in the wrong direction? had ample opportunities to improve the team but didn't? Or how about seeing teams like the Net's rise above us after fleecing them of a ton of draft picks?

Or maybe only one title in 34 years??? you're right, what a joke.

Yes win mode. That’s exactly what I’m saying. If you notice over the past week or so, Edwards hasn’t been playing. Grant hardly plays. And the only reason Green played one game was because because Brown missed that game.

People are calling for Brad and Danny’s head because they are being unreasonable. Same people that wanted Kemba traded.

What did fans think was going to happen this season after we lost Hayward and got nothing back at the moment? What did people think was going to happen with Kemba? I’ve said over a month that Kemba would get back to Kemba near last February or early March and he has been averaging 22 points a game over his last 8. That’s the reason we are .500 along with Smart missing half the season.

The Nets are an outlier. The only reason they are making any noise is because That former Celtic player went their and recruited his buddy KD. Then KD got Harden there.

Boston is not a city that many star players want to go to. Our best free agent signing in the past 30 plus years was Hayward. Before that was a reclining Horford, who was a 14 and 7 guy when he got here.

Meanwhile the Lakers get guys like Shaq and AD because players love playing in LA. If the Celtics got another GM, they wouldn’t magically be getting stars to come to Boston. That’s just the reality unfortunately.

Danny needs to do better. Last few years here hasn’t had great success with all those picks. Rob is coming around. PP is going to be a player. Jury is out on guys like Grant, Romeo and Nesmith even though it’s too early.

Instead of going in circles, You have your stance. My stance will remain the same. Nesmith is still the best current option for both winning now and long term investment if this roster stays the same.

playa-hater wrote:

bucknersrevenge wrote:

playa-hater wrote:
His not ready yet was still outplaying others (Teague the latest) and was really energetic and productive. But even if you differ on that point, I have the "only way to get ready is to play him". He is after all our much needed lottery pick that was drafted at a position/skill of need. Plus the others are never going to be a part of our future (Teague/Edwards/Waters/Green and possibly add Semi/Grant. The reasons to play him far out weigh any reasons to sit him by a good margin IMO.

I get your point I think. And when I say that he isn't ready, to clarify, what I mean is that he isn't ready to OWN a permanent place in the rotation yet. Nesmith doesn't have the credibility to suggest that Brad should abandon trying other guys on occasion to see if they can steal productive minutes off the bench. He WILL get minutes again. But Smart will be back soon and Langford after that. Brad was always going to need to play a number of guys. Let alone, we make even a small trade.

One of these days I may write about my experiences with College coaches and what I learned about differing philosophies regarding young talent and developing them. As of now the only "cliff notes" I want to share is that I learned a bit with Coach Jay Wright (Villanova) in short if he recruited a player, he wouldn't hesitate to "throw him into the fire" and play him through his mistakes. Why I asked. His response, was something along the lines "we need him to be ready sooner than later" and "we will need him to be ready to win it all"

That player was Ryan Arcidiacono. He struggled mightily in his freshman year and I actually thought he was "not on that level". Despite that he started and played near 30 min per right off the bat. A few years later he was named MVP of the national championship game and currently plays for Chicago Bulls. That is only one of many examples of that kind of philosophy. I have seen many other coaches take the opposite approach as well. Many coaches are too afraid to go "through the growing pains of trial by fire" for the greater good.

Ryan was not heavily recruited on Villanova's level, but Coach Wright recognized Ryan's talent and potential. He wasn't afraid to go against the grain and see the "big picture"

The short version is the philosophies and fundamentals taught by Jay Wright (more than any other I learned from) are what I believe in most and his players seemingly turn out to be better than advertised on the next level.

FWIW.

FWIW, that's an awesome story and thank you for sharing it. And if you ever write about that stuff I'd love to read it.

31to6 wrote:He hasn’t played a minute since going down in a heap in the first half against the Pacers.

Maybe he’s hurt but on the trade block so the team doesn’t want to say anything about it #DeepStateGM

Are they not required to list him on the injury report now? If he were injured, they'd just list him as such. They do it with everyone, as required by NBA rules. Even Tacko ends up on the injury reports.

Bleeding Green wrote:

31to6 wrote:He hasn’t played a minute since going down in a heap in the first half against the Pacers.

Maybe he’s hurt but on the trade block so the team doesn’t want to say anything about it #DeepStateGM

Are they not required to list him on the injury report now? If he were injured, they'd just list him as such. They do it with everyone, as required by NBA rules. Even Tacko ends up on the injury reports.

I don't know the requirement, practice, or enforcement, but you're probably right. Nesmith went down in a way that looked painful and it's been nothing but 'why hasn't he played?' (including in the second half of that game) since.

Yeah I dunno why he hasn't played either, but if he were injured they would be required to list him as Questionable, Probable or Out. Or they could just be skirting the injury reporting rules, but probably not much good reason to do that.

cl2117 wrote:I'm happy he got his run when he did. Not going to complain about rotations if we're winning and they guys taking those available minutes are doing something with them.

Can't deny that he's still a little lost out there. Doesn't look nearly as lost as he did originally, but in terms of getting into the flow of the offense specifically, he's just not comfortable asserting himself. Hopefully he grows into it in time.

I will say I'm a little surprised by the all or nothing approach. One thing about Nesmith that I really like is his ability to shoot off screens and in motion. I feel like that talent could be utilized a bit better without having to feed him minutes. Especially coming out of timeouts where Brad can draw up a set and let him get to one of his spots off a down screen etc. This team is often lacking that scoring punch outside our big 3 and Aaron feels like a guy who could manufacture a bucket here or there even if you're only giving him around 5 minutes in that game.

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It'll be interesting to see how he responds when he does get minutes again after being fed them for a handful of games and then back to DNP-CD.

100% this. Sucks he’s not even playing anymore but when he does he’s just out there running cardio and they refuse to run him off screens. The only way I talked myself into Nesmith was of the video clip you posted, using him off screens and pin downs like a JJ Redick or Duncan Robinson. Just having him stand on the wing waiting to touch the ball every 8 possessions isn’t great for a lottery pick...

The Celtics are 6-1 when Nesmith plays between 10 and 20 minutes. They are 3-8 otherwise (when he plays).

Not establishing causation here. Not even correlation. I was just bored, checked his game logs, and wanted to share my random observation.