bucknersrevenge wrote: Hal14 wrote:
It'd be great if Madar translates that well in the NBA--and I think the first draft and stash that ever worked out for the C's. I don't think the strength difference is just age, but we'll see how Madar does once he faces real competition.
I think a good part of the strength difference is due to age.
If not, well, the guy many are comparing Madar to is Tony Parker. Parker was rail thin and he's likely gonna be a hall of famer. IMO the quickness/explosiveness/athleticism is more important than the strength.
As far as "real competition" the Israeli league is top 5 in Europe. It's considered far better competition than Pritchard faced in Oregon. Yes, it'll be interesting to see how both guys do in summer league/preseason/training camp next year....that's of course, if Madar can even get over here and out of his Israeli contract..
The age and the strength are exactly the reasons why Madar has zero shot at beating out Pritchard next year if he comes over. I don't care what Madar is doing over in the Israeli League.
No way that Brad Stevens is going to trust Madar over Pritchard next season. Pritchard's strength which will help him defend in a switchy system and his experience and his shooting give him a SIGNIFICANT edge over Madar in reality and in terms of who Stevens will trust out there, especially on defense. With Madar's frame I already see him getting stuck like flypaper on picks in this NBA. They Jay's have known Pritchard for years even before this season. Don't you think for a second that that doesn't matter either. Maybe he doesn't come over for a 2-way but there's no way that he's more than an end of the bench guy in his first season and way behind Pritchard.
The bolded part here tells me everything I need to know. You don't care what Madar is doing over in the Israeli league. This says it all. It's like there's 2 sides to a story but you're only interesting in educating yourself on 1 of them. It's like someone's asking you your preference about Pepsi vs Coke, but you're only trying Pepsi and refusing to even learn about Coke. This bolded part tells me you have an agenda, you have your mind made up and there's no way to have a real insightful basketball discussion here.
So I'm probably wasting my breathe, but here goes:
1) You say Madar has a small frame and Pritchard is stronger. Ok sure, I'll give you that. Bulking up is probably the no. 1 thing Madar has to work on. But, even as he stands today, this is what he's doing on the court:
I know you "don't care what Madar is doing over in the Israeli League" but I suggest taking a look at the footage, it might be eye-opening for you.
:30 defending Deni Avdija a much bigger stronger player, standing 6'9, Avdija was the best player in Europe last year, top 10 draft pick in 2020, Madar hounds him on D, pressures the heck out of him, bodies him up a little bit, and forces the 10 second violation as Avdija tries bringing the ball up the court
:48 again, same thing, 2 plays and 2 turnovers Madar forces=, another 10 second violation. The best player in Europe can't even bring the ball up the court against Madar.
1:20 Avdija tries bringing the ball up again (after they tried having 2 other players bring the ball up and Madar forced both them to turn it over) and Madar steals it right from his hands
1:27 Madar guarding 1 guy who's much bigger/stronger than him, switches on a screen to the guy with the ball (also bigger/stronger than Madar), the bigger wing drives on Madar, he tries making a spin move into the paint. Madar knocks the ball away right out of his hands, steal and fast break the other way.
1:37 Madar's teammate loses his man out on the perimeter so Madar slides over to help, (now defending a slightly bigger/stronger guard) who tries to drive on Madar who completely shuts the drive down, and forces the guy with the ball into a wild pass which gets. picked off
1:45 a big man with the ball just inside the foul line has an open look at the rim, looks like an easy basket for the opposition but Madar helps, deflects the ball from behind as the big man tries shooting it which causes his shot to miss badly
1:49 Madar getting screened away from the ball by a big man who's jacked, dude looks like a more lean/cut version of Tristan Thompson who's setting the screen on Madar, he's definitely gonna get eaten alive here, right? Nope. He easily gets around the screen, recovers to close out on his man. Madar closes out strong, he's up on his man so his man tries to drive on him but can't, Madar is locking him down like a beast, forcing his man to pass it back up top but Madar deflects the pass which disrupts the opponent's offensive flow.
2:25 fights through a screen
2:30 switches on a screen
2:40 switches on screen to cover a big wing
3:05 opposing big drives the lane, Madar with the help side D swats the shot away. Madar times it perfectly and notice the big man is the one who falls to the floor. If Madar is so weak/fragile, wouldn't he be the one who falls down when he goes up to try and block a shot vs a guy much bigger than him?
3:15 shows very good leaping ability, and timing to block the shot, look how high his hand is if you pause it at 3:22
3:23 opposing big drives on the break, Madar swats the shot away
3:30 Blocks an opposing big man...again
4:50 caught on a switch, gets posted up by a much bigger player. Does he get abused in the post? Nope. He leaps up and deflects the post entry pass, deflecting it right to a teammate for a steal and fast break going the other way
You say that you think Madar will struggle switching on screens in the NBA. I don't know, from what I've seen on film, he doesn't seem to struggle with it. Keep in mind, Madar is playing against grown men in a professional league. He's going against big, strong dudes in their 20s and 30s and he's holding his own. Does he need to bulk up more? Yes, but guys like Steve Nash, Tony Parker, Steph Curry they had smaller frames to and they're all hall of famers (or soon will be). Not to mention the footage above is all from last season, 2019-2020....he has bulked up a little bit since then.
Shooting is definitely comparable. Madar shooting 38.3% from 3 this season. Pritchard shooting 40.8% so not far off at all. Pritchard in college was a career 37.9% shooter from 3, which is lower than Madar is shooting this year - while facing easier competition in the NCAA than Madar is facing in the Israeli Pro League. From 2 point range, Pritchard is shooting 50.4% this year, Madar is shooting 49.4% so Pritchard is barely higher while facing better competition. In college Pritchards shot 49.5% for his career which is pretty much equal to Madar this season despite facing easier competition than what Madar is facing now. They seem to be pretty comparable shooting wise. Keep in mind with Pritchard being 23 there is far less upside. Madar is younger with higher upside, only 20 years old and Madar improved his 3 point shot from last season to this season from 26% to 38% which is an insane jump - especially considering with all of the hype about Madar you know opposing teams are targeting him and game planning to try and stop him.
You say Pritchard has this big edge with experience. C'mon, he's played in 48 pro games. Do we really need to go down the line and list all of the rookies / first-year NBA players who took jobs from more experienced/older players? Are we really going to pretend like just because someone is older/more experienced they keep their job? lol
You play to win the game. Stevens wants to win. Brown and Tatum want to win. They all want the guys on the court who give them the best chance to win.
Both Madar and Pritchard had the exact same draft rating (a score of 90 according to nbadraft.net) last year. I'd say with the way Madar has improved this season he is slightly better but I'm saying you let them go head to head in summer league, training camp and preseason and see who's better and who helps the team more in short term and long term. I think it could go either way, but I'm saying Madar is probably the guy..
But to just flat out say that Madar has zero chance to beat out Pitchard for the backup PG job, say he's nothing more than an end of the bench guy and is "way behind Pritchard" you're basically refusing to look at the film of Madar - or you simply aren't able to comprehend the film you're watching.
Again, Madar is quicker, more athletic, more explosive, quicker off the dribble, quicker on defense, overall better defense especially defensive awareness, Madar is 2 inches taller, plus 3 years younger so more room to keep developing whereas Pritchard is pretty much as good as he's gonna be - especially considering he's only 6'1" and not as quick or athletic. Madar also a better passer/playmaker/floor general whereas Pritchard is really more of an undersized SG.