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Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard!

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cloverleaf
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#521 » by cloverleaf » Wed May 5, 2021 11:33 am

Hal14 wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Ok well that makes my point even more. Price was quick...and played in an era where the pace and spacing was a notch slower (and less spacing) than today which is why he was able to be an effective starting PG. But Pritchard is slower than Price which is rough since Pritchard plays in an era with faster pace and more spacing which is why he will have a much tougher time to make it as a starting PG than Price had....since Pritchard is slower than Price and Pritchard plays in a faster era so that lack of quickness will really hurt Pritchard..

Not to mention it's a PG dominated league in 2021. The bar has been raised. The bar to be a starting PG, an effective PG, an elite PG is much higher in 2021 than it was in 1991 when Price played. 1991 you had Magic, Stockton, Price, KJ, Hardaway, Isiah and that's it. That's only 6 really good PGs. Ok, Porter makes 7. Payton wasn't good yet, by the time he got good, Isiah was washed up and Magic was retired. The 20th best PG in 2021 is better than the 8th best PG in 1991.


it's okay. Lots of doubters. But he has ELITE BBIQ. Jason Kidd and Lebron BBIQ. He's also got moxie and confidence. None of that would matter if he wasn't an elite shooter and passer but he is. He's also extremely savvy. Anyone who watched him college saw this. Anyone who watched him scrimmage with the other first rounders could see it too. I didn't put him top 5 on my Big Board for laughs. He's the white Kyrie. He's plenty quick too. Kyrie, Lillard, Steph, Harden and Trae manage to dominate without being above the rim athletes so I'm not quite sure why Pritchard is being penalized for it. I think he's a better defender than any of the other top PGs in the league despite not being a high end athlete because of his smarts. It's like Bird. He was a well above average defender because of BBIQ, quick hands, anticipation and effort. If you let him be high usage like all the other top PGs are, he'd put up similar numbers. That isn't going to happen here because of the Jays. But even if that means he's the best #3 in the league as a result, Danny, historically a terrible drafter, knocked it out of the park. Pritchard is 100% a starting PG in this league. Likely top 10 tbh.

Like I've said, doubters won't be forced to admit this until Brad grows some balls and inserts him into the starting lineup. So doubters will be right until that time. But eventually Brad won't be able to deny him. It's just a matter of time.

edit: He's also taller than all-stars Trae, Lowry, Conley, Kemba, and Paul and none of those guys except Conley are above the rim type players but it hasn't held them back much at all.

I'm not sure if you're serious with this post or if you're trolling.

I've seen people refer to you as a troll on here before, so I thought about just ignoring your post.

But somehow your post actually got 2 and-1's so I'll respond.

1) You are severely overrating the importance of basketball IQ and moxie/confidence. These guys are NBA players. For the most part, unless they're one of those guys who's just a freak athlete but is dumber than a bag of hammers, they have solid BBIQ. And again, they're NBA players, most of them have a ton of confidence. Young players in year 1 and year 2, sometimes lack confidence until they really get comfortable out there. That's not the case for Pritchard, which is why he plays with more confidence than Nesmith for example. But in the long run, over time Nesmith is likely to pass him, once he gets comfortable out there and gets his confidence up, since he is bigger, quicker, more athletic and better defender than Pritchard.

2) "He's the white Kyrie" are you kidding me? That's one of the dumbest things I've seen written on this board. Still can't believe this post got 2 and-1's, lol. Kyrie is 10x quicker, more explosive and more athletic than Pritchard. Kyrie is 10x better at ball handling and much better at driving into the lane to create offense off the bounce. Like, it's not even close. Not to mention much better defensively. You lose all credibility with dumb statements like this.

3) Pritchard is not an elite passer. Have you honestly seen elite passing ability from him this season? He's made some nice lob passes to Time Lord but other than that, all I have seen is a undersized PG who struggles to handle the ball, get it across half court and set up offense vs defensive pressure, but a kid who is tough, scrappy, is fearless, good shooter and at times can create offense (mostly just for himself, not as good at creating for others) off the dribble. He hustles and fights but is undersized, slow, not very athletic and is a liability on defense.

He seems to have pretty good basketball IQ but definitely not seeing elite BBIQ, and you comparing his BBIQ to LeBron James is laughable. LeBron is considered to have among the best BBIQ of all time. And I am definitely not seeing elite passing ability from Pritchard. I'd say he's an average passer.

4) You're wrong, Pritchard is not taller than Trae Young or Mike Conley. All 3 of them are 6'1". Pritchard 6'1, Young 6'1, Conley 6'1, Paul 6'0, Kemba 6'0 and Lowry 6'0" are all below average height-wise for an NBA PG. Average height for an NBA PG today is just under 6'3.

Let's look beyond just height. Since obviously there is a handful of undersized PG's who have been really good. Hell, while we're at it, let's also include Rondo 6'1 and Collin Sexton 6'1.

All of these guys are undersized PG's. They are not equal if we look at other areas though...areas where an NBA starting point guard needs to be good in at least some of these.

Quickness
Athleticism
Defense
Ball handling
Passing

Now, let's take Pritchard, Kemba, Conley, Paul, Young, Rondo and Lowry. Let's give them 1 point for each category where they are above average:

Kemba = 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Rondo = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Paul = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Young = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing)
Lowry = 4 points (quickness, defense, ball handling, passing)
Conley = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Sexton= 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Pritchard = 0 points

It should be noted that the 2 categories Kemba did not receive a point (defense and passing), he is better than Pritchard at both of those.

So clearly all of these guys are WAY better than Pritchard, it's not even close.

If we run this same exercise but we also add more point guards into the mix and include guys who are not undersized (so we include Lillard, Curry, Doncic, Irving, Lamelo Ball, Lonzo Ball, De'Aaron Fox, etc.) and we add "height" as a category and you get 1 point for that category if you are 6'2" or taller so each player can now get up to 6 points, Pritchard looks even worse:

Doncic = 4 points (quickness, ball handling, passing, height)
Lillard = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Westbrook = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Irving = 6 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Harden = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Lonzo Ball = 6 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Lamelo Ball = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Sexton = 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Morant = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, height)
Young = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing)
Paul = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Kemba = 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Curry = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Lowry = 4 points (quickness, defense, ball handling, passing)
Conley = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Holiday = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, height)
Brogdon = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Fox = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, height)
Rondo = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Simmons = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, passing, height)
Jamal Murray = 6 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Dejounte Murray = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, height)
Rubio = 5 points (quickness, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
D Russell = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Pritchard = 0 points

As you can see, most of these guys got between 4 to 6 points, only two of them got 3 points. Then you have Pritchard with 0.

This is how Pritchard stacks up to the top 24 PGs in the league. Yes, Pritchard is a good shooter but pretty much all of these guys are. That is table stakes at this point for being a PG in the modern NBA. You need to be able to shoot. But it's having these other attributes (quickness, athleticism, height, passing, ball handling, defense) that puts you in the conversation for being a top 20 PG in the league. Based on this exercise you need at least 3 of those attributes to even be considered among the top 24 PGs in the league..

Oh, and athleticism is not just playing above the rim. There's more to it than that. Here's an example of Kyrie's insane athleticism:


Curry's athleticism:


Young's athleticism:


Harden's athleticism:


Again, I like Pritchard. I'm just not sure he can be a good starting PG in the league, especially for a team with hopes of contending for a title. More than likely, I see him being a solid backup PG who comes in off the bench and gives the team some good energy, toughness and shooting.


Really? I mean, really? Pritchard doesn't get credit for his ball handling, shooting, including to the 3, and driving to dish or score don't count for modern PGs? He's been overwhelmingly playing off the ball as a rook, and somehow he can't pass? BBIQ doesn't count for PGs? And just what elements of D, other than Pritchard being a rook learning NBA competition, that you haven't already given multiple counts to with athleticism, quickness, and height, do you see him lacking in? Who are you, The Yamster's agent?
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#522 » by Hal14 » Wed May 5, 2021 3:28 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:
it's okay. Lots of doubters. But he has ELITE BBIQ. Jason Kidd and Lebron BBIQ. He's also got moxie and confidence. None of that would matter if he wasn't an elite shooter and passer but he is. He's also extremely savvy. Anyone who watched him college saw this. Anyone who watched him scrimmage with the other first rounders could see it too. I didn't put him top 5 on my Big Board for laughs. He's the white Kyrie. He's plenty quick too. Kyrie, Lillard, Steph, Harden and Trae manage to dominate without being above the rim athletes so I'm not quite sure why Pritchard is being penalized for it. I think he's a better defender than any of the other top PGs in the league despite not being a high end athlete because of his smarts. It's like Bird. He was a well above average defender because of BBIQ, quick hands, anticipation and effort. If you let him be high usage like all the other top PGs are, he'd put up similar numbers. That isn't going to happen here because of the Jays. But even if that means he's the best #3 in the league as a result, Danny, historically a terrible drafter, knocked it out of the park. Pritchard is 100% a starting PG in this league. Likely top 10 tbh.

Like I've said, doubters won't be forced to admit this until Brad grows some balls and inserts him into the starting lineup. So doubters will be right until that time. But eventually Brad won't be able to deny him. It's just a matter of time.

edit: He's also taller than all-stars Trae, Lowry, Conley, Kemba, and Paul and none of those guys except Conley are above the rim type players but it hasn't held them back much at all.

I'm not sure if you're serious with this post or if you're trolling.

I've seen people refer to you as a troll on here before, so I thought about just ignoring your post.

But somehow your post actually got 2 and-1's so I'll respond.

1) You are severely overrating the importance of basketball IQ and moxie/confidence. These guys are NBA players. For the most part, unless they're one of those guys who's just a freak athlete but is dumber than a bag of hammers, they have solid BBIQ. And again, they're NBA players, most of them have a ton of confidence. Young players in year 1 and year 2, sometimes lack confidence until they really get comfortable out there. That's not the case for Pritchard, which is why he plays with more confidence than Nesmith for example. But in the long run, over time Nesmith is likely to pass him, once he gets comfortable out there and gets his confidence up, since he is bigger, quicker, more athletic and better defender than Pritchard.

2) "He's the white Kyrie" are you kidding me? That's one of the dumbest things I've seen written on this board. Still can't believe this post got 2 and-1's, lol. Kyrie is 10x quicker, more explosive and more athletic than Pritchard. Kyrie is 10x better at ball handling and much better at driving into the lane to create offense off the bounce. Like, it's not even close. Not to mention much better defensively. You lose all credibility with dumb statements like this.

3) Pritchard is not an elite passer. Have you honestly seen elite passing ability from him this season? He's made some nice lob passes to Time Lord but other than that, all I have seen is a undersized PG who struggles to handle the ball, get it across half court and set up offense vs defensive pressure, but a kid who is tough, scrappy, is fearless, good shooter and at times can create offense (mostly just for himself, not as good at creating for others) off the dribble. He hustles and fights but is undersized, slow, not very athletic and is a liability on defense.

He seems to have pretty good basketball IQ but definitely not seeing elite BBIQ, and you comparing his BBIQ to LeBron James is laughable. LeBron is considered to have among the best BBIQ of all time. And I am definitely not seeing elite passing ability from Pritchard. I'd say he's an average passer.

4) You're wrong, Pritchard is not taller than Trae Young or Mike Conley. All 3 of them are 6'1". Pritchard 6'1, Young 6'1, Conley 6'1, Paul 6'0, Kemba 6'0 and Lowry 6'0" are all below average height-wise for an NBA PG. Average height for an NBA PG today is just under 6'3.

Let's look beyond just height. Since obviously there is a handful of undersized PG's who have been really good. Hell, while we're at it, let's also include Rondo 6'1 and Collin Sexton 6'1.

All of these guys are undersized PG's. They are not equal if we look at other areas though...areas where an NBA starting point guard needs to be good in at least some of these.

Quickness
Athleticism
Defense
Ball handling
Passing

Now, let's take Pritchard, Kemba, Conley, Paul, Young, Rondo and Lowry. Let's give them 1 point for each category where they are above average:

Kemba = 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Rondo = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Paul = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Young = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing)
Lowry = 4 points (quickness, defense, ball handling, passing)
Conley = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Sexton= 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Pritchard = 0 points

It should be noted that the 2 categories Kemba did not receive a point (defense and passing), he is better than Pritchard at both of those.

So clearly all of these guys are WAY better than Pritchard, it's not even close.

If we run this same exercise but we also add more point guards into the mix and include guys who are not undersized (so we include Lillard, Curry, Doncic, Irving, Lamelo Ball, Lonzo Ball, De'Aaron Fox, etc.) and we add "height" as a category and you get 1 point for that category if you are 6'2" or taller so each player can now get up to 6 points, Pritchard looks even worse:

Doncic = 4 points (quickness, ball handling, passing, height)
Lillard = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Westbrook = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Irving = 6 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Harden = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Lonzo Ball = 6 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Lamelo Ball = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Sexton = 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Morant = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, height)
Young = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing)
Paul = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Kemba = 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Curry = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Lowry = 4 points (quickness, defense, ball handling, passing)
Conley = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Holiday = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, height)
Brogdon = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Fox = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, height)
Rondo = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Simmons = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, passing, height)
Jamal Murray = 6 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Dejounte Murray = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, height)
Rubio = 5 points (quickness, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
D Russell = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Pritchard = 0 points

As you can see, most of these guys got between 4 to 6 points, only two of them got 3 points. Then you have Pritchard with 0.

This is how Pritchard stacks up to the top 24 PGs in the league. Yes, Pritchard is a good shooter but pretty much all of these guys are. That is table stakes at this point for being a PG in the modern NBA. You need to be able to shoot. But it's having these other attributes (quickness, athleticism, height, passing, ball handling, defense) that puts you in the conversation for being a top 20 PG in the league. Based on this exercise you need at least 3 of those attributes to even be considered among the top 24 PGs in the league..

Oh, and athleticism is not just playing above the rim. There's more to it than that. Here's an example of Kyrie's insane athleticism:


Curry's athleticism:


Young's athleticism:


Harden's athleticism:


Again, I like Pritchard. I'm just not sure he can be a good starting PG in the league, especially for a team with hopes of contending for a title. More than likely, I see him being a solid backup PG who comes in off the bench and gives the team some good energy, toughness and shooting.


Really? I mean, really? Pritchard doesn't get credit for his ball handling, shooting, including to the 3, and driving to dish or score don't count for modern PGs? He's been overwhelmingly playing off the ball as a rook, and somehow he can't pass? BBIQ doesn't count for PGs? And just what elements of D, other than Pritchard being a rook learning NBA competition, that you haven't already given multiple counts to with athleticism, quickness, and height, do you see him lacking in? Who are you, The Yamster's agent?

Do you honestly think Pritchard is above average in terms of ball handling for an NBA PG? He is shaky at best and makes me nervous bringing the ball up the court and setting up offense vs heavy defensive pressure. Often times (especially in pressure situations) he gets the ball either right after receiving the inbounds pass while still in the backcourt or as soon as he crosses half court he will immediately look to Tatum or someone else to try and get rid of the ball as soon as he can as if to be like "you take it, please!" rather than taking charge and getting the team into its offense himself.

He's been ok as a passer, definitely not above average from what I've seen. Kemba has a 24.1% assist rate on 25.6% usage rate compared to Pritchard with 13.1% assist rate on 16.3% usage rate. So Kemba with much higher assist rate but also much higher usage. Their ratio of assist rate to usage rate is actually pretty similar. I've seen Kemba make quite a few superb high level passes that Pritchard simply has not shown the ability to make, so I have Kemba as a slightly better passer (especially considering Kemba's lower turnover rate despite much higher usage) and I don't consider Kemba to be an above average passer so obviously Pritchard isn't either. Also, you say he was played off the ball a lot, which is true but why is that? Everyone keeps saying that one of the things this team lacks is a true PG, a guy who can really take charge out there, really take the reins, run the offense, direct traffic, be a floor general, initiate the offense, and settle things down offensively when things are getting too out of control. In other words, we need a guy who demands the ball a little more, and then quickly get rid of the ball and get it to a teammate in scoring position - not a guy who is so passive, so tentative, so quick to just get rid of the ball, get it to Tatum as quick as he can regardless of where Tatum is on the floor and content with just being more of a spot up shooter.

He's above average shooting, yes. That's the only thing he is above average at. But again, like I said, being able to shoot is kind of table stakes at this point for being a legit NBA point guard. You need more than that, especially if you're going to be a top 10 PG in the NBA like BostonCouchGM says he will be.

Perhaps you missed the part of my post where I already addressed your basketball IQ remark: "You are severely overrating the importance of basketball IQ. These guys are NBA players. For the most part, unless they're one of those rare guys who's just a freak athlete but is dumber than a bag of hammers, they have solid BBIQ." Also, PGs in general are very cerebral players. It's been just over a half season, I haven't seen anything from Pritchard that has blown me away in terms of basketball IQ. Even if I did, the other attributes I discussed are all more important. Look at a guy like Marcus Smart. He has made some of the dumbest bonehead plays I've ever seen this season. He's also an inefficient shooter. But he's quicker than Pritchard, more athletic, better passer, and lightyears better on defense plus Smart is 2 inches taller. That 2 inches makes a big difference. Smart's ball handling isn't that great which is why he too makes me nervous sometimes bringing the ball up and setting up the offense but even his ball handling is slightly better than Pritchard's from what I've seen.

In terms of Pritchard's defense, yeah maybe there's some overlap since his lack of height, quickness and athleticism all hurt him on defense. But they hurt him on offense too. Westbrook and Curry are just 2 guys off the top of my head who are above average in terms of height/quickness/athleticism but not above average on D. So D often comes down to a combination of having the necessary height/quickness/athleticism and combining that with effort/scrappiness/tenacity/instincts. It's having enough of all of those attributes that make a good defender. That's why Lowry is an elite defender despite only being 6'0" and Conley is an elite defender despite only being 6'1". Both of those guys check every other box defensively (quickness/athleticism/tenacity/scrappiness/effort/instincts) Pritchard doesn't check enough of them, and as a result we see him get picked on on D, and exposed like in that Bulls game where he had to play big mins with Smart and Kemba both out and Chicago went at him and scored time and time again.

It's not like I'm the only one who sees these deficiencies in Pritchard's game. You make it seem like the guy is a bonafide all-star and I'm the only one who doesn't see it. Again, because of everything I've mentioned, it's why he was a late 1st round pick and was actually projected to go early to mid 2nd round:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/payton-pritchard/

Again, I like Pritchard. I like his shooting. With his shooting, his work ethic and he's got a strong frame, that will be enough to keep him in the league for a long time. Probably as a solid backup PG or a starting PG on a bad team. But who knows, maybe he beats the odds and develops into a a top 20 or even top 10 PG in this league and is a starter on a really good team. I hope he does. Maybe he beats the odds like a like Fred Vanvleet who is a borderline all-star despite being only 6'0", playing SG and not very athletic either (he is a step quicker than Pritchard, though). A guy like Vanvleet who is only a 6'0" SG with less than elite athleticism, less than elite handle who turn into really good players are like 1 in a million. Maybe Pritchard becomes the next 1 in a million, maybe he doesn't. I hope he does because it would be good for the Celtics and a great story.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#523 » by Brett43 » Wed May 5, 2021 3:50 pm

Last year, Pritchard won the Bob Cousy award for the nation's top point guard. This year, he's a valuable contributor on a playoff bound team. He's learning his limits and deferring (too much, I think) to Tatum.

Pritchard was a great pick at number 26.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#524 » by Half-Full » Wed May 5, 2021 4:41 pm

Hal14 wrote:Now, let's take Pritchard, Kemba, Conley, Paul, Young, Rondo and Lowry. Let's give them 1 point for each category where they are above average:

Kemba = 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Rondo = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Paul = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Young = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing)
Lowry = 4 points (quickness, defense, ball handling, passing)
Conley = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Sexton= 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Pritchard = 0 points

It should be noted that the 2 categories Kemba did not receive a point (defense and passing), he is better than Pritchard at both of those.

So clearly all of these guys are WAY better than Pritchard, it's not even close.

If we run this same exercise but we also add more point guards into the mix and include guys who are not undersized (so we include Lillard, Curry, Doncic, Irving, Lamelo Ball, Lonzo Ball, De'Aaron Fox, etc.) and we add "height" as a category and you get 1 point for that category if you are 6'2" or taller so each player can now get up to 6 points, Pritchard looks even worse:

Doncic = 4 points (quickness, ball handling, passing, height)
Lillard = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Westbrook = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Irving = 6 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Harden = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Lonzo Ball = 6 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Lamelo Ball = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Sexton = 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Morant = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, height)
Young = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing)
Paul = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Kemba = 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Curry = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Lowry = 4 points (quickness, defense, ball handling, passing)
Conley = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Holiday = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, height)
Brogdon = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Fox = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, height)
Rondo = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Simmons = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, passing, height)
Jamal Murray = 6 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Dejounte Murray = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, height)
Rubio = 5 points (quickness, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
D Russell = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Pritchard = 0 points

As you can see, most of these guys got between 4 to 6 points, only two of them got 3 points. Then you have Pritchard with 0.



Payton Pritchard = more than the sum of his parts. This is what you are not taking into proper consideration. As evidence, we have his High School and college records. We see his confidence, his effort, and his overall performance with the Celtics. This is just his rookie season, and he's been delivering above expectations. I expect, as with most players, that we will see improvements in the next few years. He clearly has the respect of his teammates and coaching staff, and his play this year should translate into more playing time next year.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#525 » by cloverleaf » Wed May 5, 2021 5:07 pm

Hal14 wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
Hal14 wrote:I'm not sure if you're serious with this post or if you're trolling.

I've seen people refer to you as a troll on here before, so I thought about just ignoring your post.

But somehow your post actually got 2 and-1's so I'll respond.

1) You are severely overrating the importance of basketball IQ and moxie/confidence. These guys are NBA players. For the most part, unless they're one of those guys who's just a freak athlete but is dumber than a bag of hammers, they have solid BBIQ. And again, they're NBA players, most of them have a ton of confidence. Young players in year 1 and year 2, sometimes lack confidence until they really get comfortable out there. That's not the case for Pritchard, which is why he plays with more confidence than Nesmith for example. But in the long run, over time Nesmith is likely to pass him, once he gets comfortable out there and gets his confidence up, since he is bigger, quicker, more athletic and better defender than Pritchard.

2) "He's the white Kyrie" are you kidding me? That's one of the dumbest things I've seen written on this board. Still can't believe this post got 2 and-1's, lol. Kyrie is 10x quicker, more explosive and more athletic than Pritchard. Kyrie is 10x better at ball handling and much better at driving into the lane to create offense off the bounce. Like, it's not even close. Not to mention much better defensively. You lose all credibility with dumb statements like this.

3) Pritchard is not an elite passer. Have you honestly seen elite passing ability from him this season? He's made some nice lob passes to Time Lord but other than that, all I have seen is a undersized PG who struggles to handle the ball, get it across half court and set up offense vs defensive pressure, but a kid who is tough, scrappy, is fearless, good shooter and at times can create offense (mostly just for himself, not as good at creating for others) off the dribble. He hustles and fights but is undersized, slow, not very athletic and is a liability on defense.

He seems to have pretty good basketball IQ but definitely not seeing elite BBIQ, and you comparing his BBIQ to LeBron James is laughable. LeBron is considered to have among the best BBIQ of all time. And I am definitely not seeing elite passing ability from Pritchard. I'd say he's an average passer.

4) You're wrong, Pritchard is not taller than Trae Young or Mike Conley. All 3 of them are 6'1". Pritchard 6'1, Young 6'1, Conley 6'1, Paul 6'0, Kemba 6'0 and Lowry 6'0" are all below average height-wise for an NBA PG. Average height for an NBA PG today is just under 6'3.

Let's look beyond just height. Since obviously there is a handful of undersized PG's who have been really good. Hell, while we're at it, let's also include Rondo 6'1 and Collin Sexton 6'1.

All of these guys are undersized PG's. They are not equal if we look at other areas though...areas where an NBA starting point guard needs to be good in at least some of these.

Quickness
Athleticism
Defense
Ball handling
Passing

Now, let's take Pritchard, Kemba, Conley, Paul, Young, Rondo and Lowry. Let's give them 1 point for each category where they are above average:

Kemba = 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Rondo = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Paul = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Young = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing)
Lowry = 4 points (quickness, defense, ball handling, passing)
Conley = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Sexton= 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Pritchard = 0 points

It should be noted that the 2 categories Kemba did not receive a point (defense and passing), he is better than Pritchard at both of those.

So clearly all of these guys are WAY better than Pritchard, it's not even close.

If we run this same exercise but we also add more point guards into the mix and include guys who are not undersized (so we include Lillard, Curry, Doncic, Irving, Lamelo Ball, Lonzo Ball, De'Aaron Fox, etc.) and we add "height" as a category and you get 1 point for that category if you are 6'2" or taller so each player can now get up to 6 points, Pritchard looks even worse:

Doncic = 4 points (quickness, ball handling, passing, height)
Lillard = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Westbrook = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Irving = 6 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Harden = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Lonzo Ball = 6 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Lamelo Ball = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Sexton = 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Morant = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, height)
Young = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing)
Paul = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Kemba = 3 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling)
Curry = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Lowry = 4 points (quickness, defense, ball handling, passing)
Conley = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Holiday = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, height)
Brogdon = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Fox = 4 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, height)
Rondo = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing)
Simmons = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, passing, height)
Jamal Murray = 6 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
Dejounte Murray = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, defense, ball handling, height)
Rubio = 5 points (quickness, defense, ball handling, passing, height)
D Russell = 5 points (quickness, athleticism, ball handling, passing, height)
Pritchard = 0 points

As you can see, most of these guys got between 4 to 6 points, only two of them got 3 points. Then you have Pritchard with 0.

This is how Pritchard stacks up to the top 24 PGs in the league. Yes, Pritchard is a good shooter but pretty much all of these guys are. That is table stakes at this point for being a PG in the modern NBA. You need to be able to shoot. But it's having these other attributes (quickness, athleticism, height, passing, ball handling, defense) that puts you in the conversation for being a top 20 PG in the league. Based on this exercise you need at least 3 of those attributes to even be considered among the top 24 PGs in the league..

Oh, and athleticism is not just playing above the rim. There's more to it than that. Here's an example of Kyrie's insane athleticism:


Curry's athleticism:


Young's athleticism:


Harden's athleticism:


Again, I like Pritchard. I'm just not sure he can be a good starting PG in the league, especially for a team with hopes of contending for a title. More than likely, I see him being a solid backup PG who comes in off the bench and gives the team some good energy, toughness and shooting.


Really? I mean, really? Pritchard doesn't get credit for his ball handling, shooting, including to the 3, and driving to dish or score don't count for modern PGs? He's been overwhelmingly playing off the ball as a rook, and somehow he can't pass? BBIQ doesn't count for PGs? And just what elements of D, other than Pritchard being a rook learning NBA competition, that you haven't already given multiple counts to with athleticism, quickness, and height, do you see him lacking in? Who are you, The Yamster's agent?

Do you honestly think Pritchard is above average in terms of ball handling for an NBA PG? He is shaky at best and makes me nervous bringing the ball up the court and setting up offense vs heavy defensive pressure. Often times (especially in pressure situations) he gets the ball either right after receiving the inbounds pass while still in the backcourt or as soon as he crosses half court he will immediately look to Tatum or someone else to try and get rid of the ball as soon as he can as if to be like "you take it, please!" rather than taking charge and getting the team into its offense himself.

He's been ok as a passer, definitely not above average from what I've seen. Kemba has a 24.1% assist rate on 25.6% usage rate compared to Pritchard with 13.1% assist rate on 16.3% usage rate. So Kemba with much higher assist rate but also much higher usage. Their ratio of assist rate to usage rate is actually pretty similar. I've seen Kemba make quite a few superb high level passes that Pritchard simply has not shown the ability to make, so I have Kemba as a slightly better passer (especially considering Kemba's lower turnover rate despite much higher usage) and I don't consider Kemba to be an above average passer so obviously Pritchard isn't either. Also, you say he was played off the ball a lot, which is true but why is that? Everyone keeps saying that one of the things this team lacks is a true PG, a guy who can really take charge out there, really take the reins, run the offense, direct traffic, be a floor general, initiate the offense, and settle things down offensively when things are getting too out of control. In other words, we need a guy who demands the ball a little more, and then quickly get rid of the ball and get it to a teammate in scoring position - not a guy who is so passive, so tentative, so quick to just get rid of the ball, get it to Tatum as quick as he can regardless of where Tatum is on the floor and content with just being more of a spot up shooter.

He's above average shooting, yes. That's the only thing he is above average at. But again, like I said, being able to shoot is kind of table stakes at this point for being a legit NBA point guard. You need more than that, especially if you're going to be a top 10 PG in the NBA like BostonCouchGM says he will be.

Perhaps you missed the part of my post where I already addressed your basketball IQ remark: "You are severely overrating the importance of basketball IQ. These guys are NBA players. For the most part, unless they're one of those rare guys who's just a freak athlete but is dumber than a bag of hammers, they have solid BBIQ." Also, PGs in general are very cerebral players. It's been just over a half season, I haven't seen anything from Pritchard that has blown me away in terms of basketball IQ. Even if I did, the other attributes I discussed are all more important. Look at a guy like Marcus Smart. He has made some of the dumbest bonehead plays I've ever seen this season. He's also an inefficient shooter. But he's quicker than Pritchard, more athletic, better passer, and lightyears better on defense plus Smart is 2 inches taller. That 2 inches makes a big difference. Smart's ball handling isn't that great which is why he too makes me nervous sometimes bringing the ball up and setting up the offense but even his ball handling is slightly better than Pritchard's from what I've seen.

In terms of Pritchard's defense, yeah maybe there's some overlap since his lack of height, quickness and athleticism all hurt him on defense. But they hurt him on offense too. Westbrook and Curry are just 2 guys off the top of my head who are above average in terms of height/quickness/athleticism but not above average on D. So D often comes down to a combination of having the necessary height/quickness/athleticism and combining that with effort/scrappiness/tenacity/instincts. It's having enough of all of those attributes that make a good defender. That's why Lowry is an elite defender despite only being 6'0" and Conley is an elite defender despite only being 6'1". Both of those guys check every other box defensively (quickness/athleticism/tenacity/scrappiness/effort/instincts) Pritchard doesn't check enough of them, and as a result we see him get picked on on D, and exposed like in that Bulls game where he had to play big mins with Smart and Kemba both out and Chicago went at him and scored time and time again.

It's not like I'm the only one who sees these deficiencies in Pritchard's game. You make it seem like the guy is a bonafide all-star and I'm the only one who doesn't see it. Again, because of everything I've mentioned, it's why he was a late 1st round pick and was actually projected to go early to mid 2nd round:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/payton-pritchard/

Again, I like Pritchard. I like his shooting. With his shooting, his work ethic and he's got a strong frame, that will be enough to keep him in the league for a long time. Probably as a solid backup PG or a starting PG on a bad team. But who knows, maybe he beats the odds and develops into a a top 20 or even top 10 PG in this league and is a starter on a really good team. I hope he does. Maybe he beats the odds like a like Fred Vanvleet who is a borderline all-star despite being only 6'0", playing SG and not very athletic either (he is a step quicker than Pritchard, though). A guy like Vanvleet who is only a 6'0" SG with less than elite athleticism, less than elite handle who turn into really good players are like 1 in a million. Maybe Pritchard becomes the next 1 in a million, maybe he doesn't. I hope he does because it would be good for the Celtics and a great story.


Once again, Payton has mostly been assigned to play off ball, which reduces his asst%. Also, he has mostly played with the relative scrubs, which makes assists more difficult still. As to his ball handling, more key at this stage of his development is how he can dribble into and around traffic in the paint, more than how he looks bringing it up the court. And I just thought your BBIQ statement was, um, limited. No, I don't expect Pritchard to be a top-3 player on a championship contender, but he could be an incredibly good #5 starter on such a team. His range and playmaking are potentially incredibly complementary to a the Jays in a lineup.

As to your obsession with his height there is of course no exact science where all players are measured equally, but he was listed at 6'2" as a prospect (https://www.nba.com/draft/2020/prospects/payton-pritchard#/), at which time he was 13 pounds heavier than the reported NBA PG average (https://www.thehoopsgeek.com/average-nba-height/) His wingspan is not great and he's not likely to be an elite defender, but he's smart with a high motor on D, and at their best could be the only starter for the C's who is not a plus defender.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#526 » by BostonCouchGM » Wed May 5, 2021 5:21 pm

If Paul can be an elite PG in this league given his length and athleticism so can’t PP. BBIQ and savvy are elite and skills wise he’s got no flaws. The only thing these two can’t do is play above the rim, PP more so than Paul. You’ll all come around eventually
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#527 » by BK_2020 » Wed May 5, 2021 5:35 pm

Chris Paul is like 1000 times better at the game of basketball than Payton Pritchard so you have to factor that in.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#528 » by bucknersrevenge » Wed May 5, 2021 5:42 pm

Jay King just dropped a great article in the Athletic about Pritchard which is behind a paywall but if you can get to it, it's a pretty good read. For all the talk about his apparent lack of athleticism, in high school he was a shortstop and was a pretty mobile quarterback too who maybe could've gone D1 if he had wanted according to teammates of his who actually did. He's not Ja Morant but the kid is athletic. I really like his trajectory. When he finds his voice on this team, then I think we're gonna see some things. That's the key. A little soft-spoken in general and understandably so this season as a rookie. But once he finds his comfort in this system and if he's given the opportunity to command this team like a real floor general I think he will earn that opportunity in upcoming years. Danny said this kid was the best player in the Pac-10 his last 2 years. That's not an easy trick to pull off. Can he become a capable successor to Kemba as a starter coming off those high screen rolls and making plays? I think so.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#529 » by Hal14 » Wed May 5, 2021 7:29 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:If Paul can be an elite PG in this league given his length and athleticism so can’t PP. BBIQ and savvy are elite and skills wise he’s got no flaws. The only thing these two can’t do is play above the rim, PP more so than Paul. You’ll all come around eventually

Paul is one of the best defensive point guards of all time and one of the best passing point guards of all time. He is has the ball on a string, amazing ball handling. He is a floor general who takes charge out there, gets the team into its offense, settles the offense down if it gets out of control, does not just get it across half court and immediately look to give the ball to Tatum regardless of where Tatum is on the court, immediately looking to give the ball up even if he's still in the backcourt. That's not a floor general.

Quickness
Athleticism
Elite defense
Elite passing
Elite floor general
Elite ball handling

Paul checks all 6 boxes. Pritchard checks 0. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Only thing they have in common is being undersized point guards with a good jump shot. It's a ridiculous comparison to make.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#530 » by Bleeding Green » Wed May 5, 2021 8:08 pm

If you have to compare someone to Chris Paul, you're gonna have a bad time almost always. He's the most skilled guard the NBA has probably ever seen.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#531 » by Hal14 » Wed May 5, 2021 8:36 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:If you have to compare someone to Chris Paul, you're gonna have a bad time almost always. He's the most skilled guard the NBA has probably ever seen.

Yup, so should be no surprise that BostonCouchGM is the one comparing Pritchard to him :lol:
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#532 » by Hal14 » Wed May 5, 2021 9:43 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:Jay King just dropped a great article in the Athletic about Pritchard which is behind a paywall but if you can get to it, it's a pretty good read. For all the talk about his apparent lack of athleticism, in high school he was a shortstop and was a pretty mobile quarterback too who maybe could've gone D1 if he had wanted according to teammates of his who actually did. He's not Ja Morant but the kid is athletic. I really like his trajectory. When he finds his voice on this team, then I think we're gonna see some things. That's the key. A little soft-spoken in general and understandably so this season as a rookie. But once he finds his comfort in this system and if he's given the opportunity to command this team like a real floor general I think he will earn that opportunity in upcoming years. Danny said this kid was the best player in the Pac-10 his last 2 years. That's not an easy trick to pull off. Can he become a capable successor to Kemba as a starter coming off those high screen rolls and making plays? I think so.

Just because someone played baseball and football in high school, that doesn't mean they have above average athleticism on a basketball court. It doesn't work that way. Basketball athleticism is different than those other sports.

Also, that's nice that he was the best player in the Pac-10. But you could easily find a list of dozens (maybe even hundreds) of guys who were good college players but couldn't start for a good NBA team. Tyler Hansbrough, Mateen Cleaves, Khalid El-Amin, Brian Scalabrine to name a few..
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#533 » by Hal14 » Thu May 6, 2021 1:24 am

cloverleaf wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
Really? I mean, really? Pritchard doesn't get credit for his ball handling, shooting, including to the 3, and driving to dish or score don't count for modern PGs? He's been overwhelmingly playing off the ball as a rook, and somehow he can't pass? BBIQ doesn't count for PGs? And just what elements of D, other than Pritchard being a rook learning NBA competition, that you haven't already given multiple counts to with athleticism, quickness, and height, do you see him lacking in? Who are you, The Yamster's agent?

Do you honestly think Pritchard is above average in terms of ball handling for an NBA PG? He is shaky at best and makes me nervous bringing the ball up the court and setting up offense vs heavy defensive pressure. Often times (especially in pressure situations) he gets the ball either right after receiving the inbounds pass while still in the backcourt or as soon as he crosses half court he will immediately look to Tatum or someone else to try and get rid of the ball as soon as he can as if to be like "you take it, please!" rather than taking charge and getting the team into its offense himself.

He's been ok as a passer, definitely not above average from what I've seen. Kemba has a 24.1% assist rate on 25.6% usage rate compared to Pritchard with 13.1% assist rate on 16.3% usage rate. So Kemba with much higher assist rate but also much higher usage. Their ratio of assist rate to usage rate is actually pretty similar. I've seen Kemba make quite a few superb high level passes that Pritchard simply has not shown the ability to make, so I have Kemba as a slightly better passer (especially considering Kemba's lower turnover rate despite much higher usage) and I don't consider Kemba to be an above average passer so obviously Pritchard isn't either. Also, you say he was played off the ball a lot, which is true but why is that? Everyone keeps saying that one of the things this team lacks is a true PG, a guy who can really take charge out there, really take the reins, run the offense, direct traffic, be a floor general, initiate the offense, and settle things down offensively when things are getting too out of control. In other words, we need a guy who demands the ball a little more, and then quickly get rid of the ball and get it to a teammate in scoring position - not a guy who is so passive, so tentative, so quick to just get rid of the ball, get it to Tatum as quick as he can regardless of where Tatum is on the floor and content with just being more of a spot up shooter.

He's above average shooting, yes. That's the only thing he is above average at. But again, like I said, being able to shoot is kind of table stakes at this point for being a legit NBA point guard. You need more than that, especially if you're going to be a top 10 PG in the NBA like BostonCouchGM says he will be.

Perhaps you missed the part of my post where I already addressed your basketball IQ remark: "You are severely overrating the importance of basketball IQ. These guys are NBA players. For the most part, unless they're one of those rare guys who's just a freak athlete but is dumber than a bag of hammers, they have solid BBIQ." Also, PGs in general are very cerebral players. It's been just over a half season, I haven't seen anything from Pritchard that has blown me away in terms of basketball IQ. Even if I did, the other attributes I discussed are all more important. Look at a guy like Marcus Smart. He has made some of the dumbest bonehead plays I've ever seen this season. He's also an inefficient shooter. But he's quicker than Pritchard, more athletic, better passer, and lightyears better on defense plus Smart is 2 inches taller. That 2 inches makes a big difference. Smart's ball handling isn't that great which is why he too makes me nervous sometimes bringing the ball up and setting up the offense but even his ball handling is slightly better than Pritchard's from what I've seen.

In terms of Pritchard's defense, yeah maybe there's some overlap since his lack of height, quickness and athleticism all hurt him on defense. But they hurt him on offense too. Westbrook and Curry are just 2 guys off the top of my head who are above average in terms of height/quickness/athleticism but not above average on D. So D often comes down to a combination of having the necessary height/quickness/athleticism and combining that with effort/scrappiness/tenacity/instincts. It's having enough of all of those attributes that make a good defender. That's why Lowry is an elite defender despite only being 6'0" and Conley is an elite defender despite only being 6'1". Both of those guys check every other box defensively (quickness/athleticism/tenacity/scrappiness/effort/instincts) Pritchard doesn't check enough of them, and as a result we see him get picked on on D, and exposed like in that Bulls game where he had to play big mins with Smart and Kemba both out and Chicago went at him and scored time and time again.

It's not like I'm the only one who sees these deficiencies in Pritchard's game. You make it seem like the guy is a bonafide all-star and I'm the only one who doesn't see it. Again, because of everything I've mentioned, it's why he was a late 1st round pick and was actually projected to go early to mid 2nd round:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/payton-pritchard/

Again, I like Pritchard. I like his shooting. With his shooting, his work ethic and he's got a strong frame, that will be enough to keep him in the league for a long time. Probably as a solid backup PG or a starting PG on a bad team. But who knows, maybe he beats the odds and develops into a a top 20 or even top 10 PG in this league and is a starter on a really good team. I hope he does. Maybe he beats the odds like a like Fred Vanvleet who is a borderline all-star despite being only 6'0", playing SG and not very athletic either (he is a step quicker than Pritchard, though). A guy like Vanvleet who is only a 6'0" SG with less than elite athleticism, less than elite handle who turn into really good players are like 1 in a million. Maybe Pritchard becomes the next 1 in a million, maybe he doesn't. I hope he does because it would be good for the Celtics and a great story.


Once again, Payton has mostly been assigned to play off ball, which reduces his asst%. Also, he has mostly played with the relative scrubs, which makes assists more difficult still. As to his ball handling, more key at this stage of his development is how he can dribble into and around traffic in the paint, more than how he looks bringing it up the court. And I just thought your BBIQ statement was, um, limited. No, I don't expect Pritchard to be a top-3 player on a championship contender, but he could be an incredibly good #5 starter on such a team. His range and playmaking are potentially incredibly complementary to a the Jays in a lineup.

As to your obsession with his height there is of course no exact science where all players are measured equally, but he was listed at 6'2" as a prospect (https://www.nba.com/draft/2020/prospects/payton-pritchard#/), at which time he was 13 pounds heavier than the reported NBA PG average (https://www.thehoopsgeek.com/average-nba-height/) His wingspan is not great and he's not likely to be an elite defender, but he's smart with a high motor on D, and at their best could be the only starter for the C's who is not a plus defender.

I already addressed the usage thing. Kemba has higher assist % but that can be attributed to higher usage rate. It's a wash. However, Kemba has made a number of high level passes this season that I simply haven't seen from Pritchard so Kemba has the slight edge in passing but neither is above average passer.

I don't have an obsession with height. It's only 1 of 6 factors I have discussed when comparing Pritchard to the top 22 PGs in the league. Pritchard was listed by 1 site as 6'2" coming out of college but his official height as an NBA player is 6'1

https://www.nba.com/player/1630202/payton_pritchard

That 1 inch does make a difference. Height does matter in basketball, especially when you're also a player who can't jump and doesn't have a long wingspan. And when PGs are roughly 2 inches taller on average than they were 20 years ago.

He hasn't "mostly played with relative scrubs" he has very rarely been out there during garbage time, often times he's out there with starters.

"How he looks when he brings it up the court" does not matter. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the ability to smoothly and effectively handle the basketball, get it up the court and get the team into its offense vs heavy defensive pressure. Again, he's looked shaky at best doing that so far this season. And since he's already 23, there's not a whole lot of upside (especially for a guy with below average height and athleticism)

I already said that because of his shooting and scrappiness, he does have a good chance to be a quality NBA player for a long time, likely a key bench player. I don't see him being a starting PG on a title contending team. But time will tell..
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#534 » by playa-hater » Thu May 6, 2021 1:43 am

If Boston can play with the energy that you guys are putting in this thread, we'd be getting #18.. for real :o 8-)
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#535 » by BK_2020 » Thu May 6, 2021 12:24 pm

God forbid people discuss basketball on a basketball forum....
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#536 » by bisme37 » Thu May 6, 2021 4:13 pm

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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#537 » by Half-Full » Thu May 6, 2021 5:11 pm

Over the last 10 games, Payton has averaged 8 pts on 8 shots. There were three games where Payton took more than 8 shots: against the Warriors (11 pts on 9 shots); against the Nets (22 pts on 12 shots); and against the Thunder (28 pts on 16 shots). Clearly he can put points on the board, and given more shots, more points. His 3-point percentage (42.4%) is very good, and verging on elite. Being a rookie, it is unlikely that he will be asked to put up 12+ shots/game, especially when we have guys like Tatum, Kemba, Jaylen, and Fournier to carry the shooting load. Still, it is nice to know that he has the capability to put more points on the board if he was called upon to do so.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#538 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu May 6, 2021 5:23 pm

Hal14 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:Jay King just dropped a great article in the Athletic about Pritchard which is behind a paywall but if you can get to it, it's a pretty good read. For all the talk about his apparent lack of athleticism, in high school he was a shortstop and was a pretty mobile quarterback too who maybe could've gone D1 if he had wanted according to teammates of his who actually did. He's not Ja Morant but the kid is athletic. I really like his trajectory. When he finds his voice on this team, then I think we're gonna see some things. That's the key. A little soft-spoken in general and understandably so this season as a rookie. But once he finds his comfort in this system and if he's given the opportunity to command this team like a real floor general I think he will earn that opportunity in upcoming years. Danny said this kid was the best player in the Pac-10 his last 2 years. That's not an easy trick to pull off. Can he become a capable successor to Kemba as a starter coming off those high screen rolls and making plays? I think so.

Just because someone played baseball and football in high school, that doesn't mean they have above average athleticism on a basketball court. It doesn't work that way. Basketball athleticism is different than those other sports.

Also, that's nice that he was the best player in the Pac-10. But you could easily find a list of dozens (maybe even hundreds) of guys who were good college players but couldn't start for a good NBA team. Tyler Hansbrough, Mateen Cleaves, Khalid El-Amin, Brian Scalabrine to name a few..


And yet Pritchard HAS actually started for an NBA team. But you're right. He sucks.
Former President of the RealGM President Tacko Fall fan club.
gocelts
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#539 » by gocelts » Thu May 6, 2021 5:42 pm

Nowhere to go but up.

If Kemba were the 26th pick and Pritchard were making 30M he’d be the starting point guard.

That fact that Pritchard was playing and contributing game 1 after a very unique college season, offseason, camp and preseason...and is basically learning as we go while continuing to contribute on a playoff team is amazing.

He’s absolutely a future starting point guard.
~gocelts
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Payton Pritchard! 

Post#540 » by BK_2020 » Thu May 6, 2021 5:59 pm

gocelts wrote:Nowhere to go but up.

If Kemba were the 26th pick and Pritchard were making 30M he’d be the starting point guard.

Pritchard wouldn't start for the Thunder.

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