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Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar!

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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#181 » by Dogen » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:26 pm

cloverleaf wrote:The Yamster looking good.


Bring on the Yaminator! :reporter:
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#182 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:08 pm

As I said on a different thread. A lot to be intrigued about. Love the pace he plays at. I think that's the thing that jumps out right away. When he's confident, he plays with a swag. With his recent hot stretch of shooting, he's now shooting 40% from 3. Brad LOVES these types of ballhandlers and has usually turned them into productive players. And just for you Hal, his handle at 20 is pretty good and I think it will get even better. That said, there's always an adjustment coming overseas. The mental and social adjustment; being in an unfamiliar country. His English is pretty good so that will help but it's always hard to leave everything you've known your entire life in Israel to come over here where things are so different. That and just the everyday grind of an NBA season is just much more grueling than anything he's faced so far. He's played 3 seasons professionally and COMBINED, still hasn't played the number of games in ONE NBA season. Obviously he won't play in 82 games his first season but the toll of practice, weights, flights, home, hotels, learning the country, learning the league, learning the offense and defense, learning his teammates, getting slammed into picks from bigger guys over a much longer stretch. That's a lot for a 20 year old, even if he has family and friends here with him. It's a ton of pressure. And as everyone in here noted, he still has to get much stronger. Not to say by any means that this kid couldn't turn out to be a productive NBA player. Definitely rooting for him. I just wouldn't expect much early from Yam.
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#183 » by playa-hater » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:01 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:As I said on a different thread. A lot to be intrigued about. Love the pace he plays at. I think that's the thing that jumps out right away. When he's confident, he plays with a swag. With his recent hot stretch of shooting, he's now shooting 40% from 3. Brad LOVES these types of ballhandlers and has usually turned them into productive players. And just for you Hal, his handle at 20 is pretty good and I think it will get even better. That said, there's always an adjustment coming overseas. The mental and social adjustment; being in an unfamiliar country. His English is pretty good so that will help but it's always hard to leave everything you've known your entire life in Israel to come over here where things are so different. That and just the everyday grind of an NBA season is just much more grueling than anything he's faced so far. He's played 3 seasons professionally and COMBINED, still hasn't played the number of games in ONE NBA season. Obviously he won't play in 82 games his first season but the toll of practice, weights, flights, home, hotels, learning the country, learning the league, learning the offense and defense, learning his teammates, getting slammed into picks from bigger guys over a much longer stretch. That's a lot for a 20 year old, even if he has family and friends here with him. It's a ton of pressure. And as everyone in here noted, he still has to get much stronger. Not to say by any means that this kid couldn't turn out to be a productive NBA player. Definitely rooting for him. I just wouldn't expect much early from Yam.


While the bold is true, I don't think or expect anyone to consider him more than a 3rd string PG (Kemba? Smart, PP) so Boston would have the luxury of taking their time with him next year.

what I am hoping for is Boston will have it's first pass first PG in a long while (Rondo) and perhaps that can glue some of our pieces together.
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#184 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:36 pm

playa-hater wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:As I said on a different thread. A lot to be intrigued about. Love the pace he plays at. I think that's the thing that jumps out right away. When he's confident, he plays with a swag. With his recent hot stretch of shooting, he's now shooting 40% from 3. Brad LOVES these types of ballhandlers and has usually turned them into productive players. And just for you Hal, his handle at 20 is pretty good and I think it will get even better. That said, there's always an adjustment coming overseas. The mental and social adjustment; being in an unfamiliar country. His English is pretty good so that will help but it's always hard to leave everything you've known your entire life in Israel to come over here where things are so different. That and just the everyday grind of an NBA season is just much more grueling than anything he's faced so far. He's played 3 seasons professionally and COMBINED, still hasn't played the number of games in ONE NBA season. Obviously he won't play in 82 games his first season but the toll of practice, weights, flights, home, hotels, learning the country, learning the league, learning the offense and defense, learning his teammates, getting slammed into picks from bigger guys over a much longer stretch. That's a lot for a 20 year old, even if he has family and friends here with him. It's a ton of pressure. And as everyone in here noted, he still has to get much stronger. Not to say by any means that this kid couldn't turn out to be a productive NBA player. Definitely rooting for him. I just wouldn't expect much early from Yam.


While the bold is true, I don't think or expect anyone to consider him more than a 3rd string PG (Kemba? Smart, PP) so Boston would have the luxury of taking their time with him next year.

what I am hoping for is Boston will have it's first pass first PG in a long while (Rondo) and perhaps that can glue some of our pieces together.


I'm just gonna say, check the Pritchard thread...
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#185 » by Hal14 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:37 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:As I said on a different thread. A lot to be intrigued about. Love the pace he plays at. I think that's the thing that jumps out right away. When he's confident, he plays with a swag. With his recent hot stretch of shooting, he's now shooting 40% from 3. Brad LOVES these types of ballhandlers and has usually turned them into productive players. And just for you Hal, his handle at 20 is pretty good and I think it will get even better. That said, there's always an adjustment coming overseas. The mental and social adjustment; being in an unfamiliar country. His English is pretty good so that will help but it's always hard to leave everything you've known your entire life in Israel to come over here where things are so different. That and just the everyday grind of an NBA season is just much more grueling than anything he's faced so far. He's played 3 seasons professionally and COMBINED, still hasn't played the number of games in ONE NBA season. Obviously he won't play in 82 games his first season but the toll of practice, weights, flights, home, hotels, learning the country, learning the league, learning the offense and defense, learning his teammates, getting slammed into picks from bigger guys over a much longer stretch. That's a lot for a 20 year old, even if he has family and friends here with him. It's a ton of pressure. And as everyone in here noted, he still has to get much stronger. Not to say by any means that this kid couldn't turn out to be a productive NBA player. Definitely rooting for him. I just wouldn't expect much early from Yam.

1) You make it seem like no one has ever come from overseas and played in the NBA before. Tony Parker took over the starting PG job from day 1 his rookie year after coming from overseas at age 19. Madar will be 21 next season. Dirk came over for his rookie year at age 20 and started half the games he played in. By his 2nd year at age 21 he was full time starter. Both Dirk and Parker, their numbers were down rookie year (most players have a modest rookie year) and then their numbers took a big jump in year 2 at age 20 and 21 respectively. Stojakovic came over to NBA at age 21, scored 8 points a game in 20 mins off the bench his rookie year, gradually got better until year 3 in the NBA at age 23 he was a 20 point per game scorer.

So yeah, the trend is definitely slow/modest rookie year and then rapid improvement in year 2 and year 3. But again, that's the case for most NBA players. If we limit him to 3rd string PG duties though, and give him the workload of a Waters/Edwards on this year's team, it will really slow down his development. He'll still be playing like a rookie in year 2, since he wouldn't have gotten enough reps/minutes in his rookie year.

If we think this guy could be the next Tony Parker (but with better defense, more range on his shot and 1 inch taller) than we should treat him as such and give him some real minutes and really try to develop him into a star - which means not burying him on the bench.

2) The competition in the Israeli pro league is better than NCAA, and people have no problem drooling over college players and projecting them as stars in the NBA. The transition to NBA might not be as bad as you think. Obviously the increased number of games will take some getting used to..

3) Sure, it will certainly be an adjustment going from where he has already lived to this new unknown place here in the US. But Israel has double the poverty rate compared to the US. The US is simply a better, safer place to live. For crying out loud, Madar's daily routine is serving in the army all day before. heading to the gym for his basketball workouts. That is insanely stressful and depressing so he'll likely feel rejuvenated coming over here rather than extremely overwhelmed like you are indicating.
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#186 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:55 pm

Hal14 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:As I said on a different thread. A lot to be intrigued about. Love the pace he plays at. I think that's the thing that jumps out right away. When he's confident, he plays with a swag. With his recent hot stretch of shooting, he's now shooting 40% from 3. Brad LOVES these types of ballhandlers and has usually turned them into productive players. And just for you Hal, his handle at 20 is pretty good and I think it will get even better. That said, there's always an adjustment coming overseas. The mental and social adjustment; being in an unfamiliar country. His English is pretty good so that will help but it's always hard to leave everything you've known your entire life in Israel to come over here where things are so different. That and just the everyday grind of an NBA season is just much more grueling than anything he's faced so far. He's played 3 seasons professionally and COMBINED, still hasn't played the number of games in ONE NBA season. Obviously he won't play in 82 games his first season but the toll of practice, weights, flights, home, hotels, learning the country, learning the league, learning the offense and defense, learning his teammates, getting slammed into picks from bigger guys over a much longer stretch. That's a lot for a 20 year old, even if he has family and friends here with him. It's a ton of pressure. And as everyone in here noted, he still has to get much stronger. Not to say by any means that this kid couldn't turn out to be a productive NBA player. Definitely rooting for him. I just wouldn't expect much early from Yam.

1) You make it seem like no one has ever come from overseas and played in the NBA before. Tony Parker took over the starting PG job from day 1 his rookie year after coming from overseas at age 19. Madar will be 21 next season. Dirk came over for his rookie year at age 20 and started half the games he played in. By his 2nd year at age 21 he was full time starter. Both Dirk and Parker, their numbers were down rookie year (most players have a modest rookie year) and then their numbers took a big jump in year 2 at age 20 and 21 respectively. Stojakovic came over to NBA at age 21, scored 8 points a game in 20 mins off the bench his rookie year, gradually got better until year 3 in the NBA at age 23 he was a 20 point per game scorer.

So yeah, the trend is definitely slow/modest rookie year and then rapid improvement in year 2 and year 3. But again, that's the case for most NBA players. If we limit him to 3rd string PG duties though, and give him the workload of a Waters/Edwards on this year's team, it will really slow down his development. He'll still be playing like a rookie in year 2, since he wouldn't have gotten enough reps/minutes in his rookie year.

If we think this guy could be the next Tony Parker (but with better defense, more range on his shot and 1 inch taller) than we should treat him as such and give him some real minutes and really try to develop him into a star - which means not burying him on the bench.

2) The competition in the Israeli pro league is better than NCAA, and people have no problem drooling over college players and projecting them as stars in the NBA. The transition to NBA might not be as bad as you think. Obviously the increased number of games will take some getting used to..

3) Sure, it will certainly be an adjustment going from where he has already lived to this new unknown place here in the US. But Israel has double the poverty rate compared to the US. The US is simply a better, safer place to live. For crying out loud, Madar's daily routine is serving in the army all day before. heading to the gym for his basketball workouts. That is insanely stressful, depressing.


I don't get why your "go to" is always comparing this guy to Hall of Famers. This kid is not Dirk, or Parker. YOU clearly believe he's Tony Parker. Where they icked him, I think Danny and Brad would be satisfied with Tony Delk. They're not gonna rush him at 20. I totally get what YOU would like to see happen. But in real life, this team WILL NOT do that. G-League is a real option though. Get some run up in Maine to get used to things and then join the big club when the season's over. Minutes are earned here, not given. And fact is, because he's 21, they don't need to rush him. I read about the army stuff and watch a video with him talking about it. Kid's got a great head on his shoulders about that stuff. I do see why we took him. Kind of kid you like rooting for, no question. But they don't need to throw the world at this kid in his first year. That wouldn't be fair. I do understand why you're so high on him though.

One last thing about this Parker comparison you keep bringing up. There's a ton of context you're missing here I think. Parker not only lit up the Nike Hoops Summit against American talent, the year previous to put him on the map, but then he killed the Pre-Draft camp that year he was drafted. There was a lot of tape on him performing well internationally against American talent when he was drafted. Which was why he was taken 21 and not 50. Plus Pop dropped him into a nutrient-rich environment full of veteran guys to show him the ropes. David Robinson, Terry Porter, Mark Bryant, Steven Smith, Bruce Bowen, Antonio Daniels had been there a few years. I mean, you can't drop a rookie into a better breeding grounds. Compare that with what we got goin on here now. Our veteran guys need veterans. I don't know what else to say. Madar is not Parker. And this is not the Spurs. I suspect that you're going to attempt to downplay the role of infrastructure to buoy your points about Madar but that's gonna be a tenuous foundation to stake your claim to.
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#187 » by Hal14 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:45 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:As I said on a different thread. A lot to be intrigued about. Love the pace he plays at. I think that's the thing that jumps out right away. When he's confident, he plays with a swag. With his recent hot stretch of shooting, he's now shooting 40% from 3. Brad LOVES these types of ballhandlers and has usually turned them into productive players. And just for you Hal, his handle at 20 is pretty good and I think it will get even better. That said, there's always an adjustment coming overseas. The mental and social adjustment; being in an unfamiliar country. His English is pretty good so that will help but it's always hard to leave everything you've known your entire life in Israel to come over here where things are so different. That and just the everyday grind of an NBA season is just much more grueling than anything he's faced so far. He's played 3 seasons professionally and COMBINED, still hasn't played the number of games in ONE NBA season. Obviously he won't play in 82 games his first season but the toll of practice, weights, flights, home, hotels, learning the country, learning the league, learning the offense and defense, learning his teammates, getting slammed into picks from bigger guys over a much longer stretch. That's a lot for a 20 year old, even if he has family and friends here with him. It's a ton of pressure. And as everyone in here noted, he still has to get much stronger. Not to say by any means that this kid couldn't turn out to be a productive NBA player. Definitely rooting for him. I just wouldn't expect much early from Yam.

1) You make it seem like no one has ever come from overseas and played in the NBA before. Tony Parker took over the starting PG job from day 1 his rookie year after coming from overseas at age 19. Madar will be 21 next season. Dirk came over for his rookie year at age 20 and started half the games he played in. By his 2nd year at age 21 he was full time starter. Both Dirk and Parker, their numbers were down rookie year (most players have a modest rookie year) and then their numbers took a big jump in year 2 at age 20 and 21 respectively. Stojakovic came over to NBA at age 21, scored 8 points a game in 20 mins off the bench his rookie year, gradually got better until year 3 in the NBA at age 23 he was a 20 point per game scorer.

So yeah, the trend is definitely slow/modest rookie year and then rapid improvement in year 2 and year 3. But again, that's the case for most NBA players. If we limit him to 3rd string PG duties though, and give him the workload of a Waters/Edwards on this year's team, it will really slow down his development. He'll still be playing like a rookie in year 2, since he wouldn't have gotten enough reps/minutes in his rookie year.

If we think this guy could be the next Tony Parker (but with better defense, more range on his shot and 1 inch taller) than we should treat him as such and give him some real minutes and really try to develop him into a star - which means not burying him on the bench.

2) The competition in the Israeli pro league is better than NCAA, and people have no problem drooling over college players and projecting them as stars in the NBA. The transition to NBA might not be as bad as you think. Obviously the increased number of games will take some getting used to..

3) Sure, it will certainly be an adjustment going from where he has already lived to this new unknown place here in the US. But Israel has double the poverty rate compared to the US. The US is simply a better, safer place to live. For crying out loud, Madar's daily routine is serving in the army all day before. heading to the gym for his basketball workouts. That is insanely stressful, depressing.


I don't get why your "go to" is always comparing this guy to Hall of Famers. This kid is not Dirk, or Parker. YOU clearly believe he's Tony Parker. Where they icked him, I think Danny and Brad would be satisfied with Tony Delk. They're not gonna rush him at 20. I totally get what YOU would like to see happen. But in real life, this team WILL NOT do that. G-League is a real option though. Get some run up in Maine to get used to things and then join the big club when the season's over. Minutes are earned here, not given. And fact is, because he's 21, they don't need to rush him. I read about the army stuff and watch a video with him talking about it. Kid's got a great head on his shoulders about that stuff. I do see why we took him. Kind of kid you like rooting for, no question. But they don't need to throw the world at this kid in his first year. That wouldn't be fair. I do understand why you're so high on him though.

One last thing about this Parker comparison you keep bringing up. There's a ton of context you're missing here I think. Parker not only lit up the Nike Hoops Summit against American talent, the year previous to put him on the map, but then he killed the Pre-Draft camp that year he was drafted. There was a lot of tape on him performing well internationally against American talent when he was drafted. Which was why he was taken 21 and not 50. Plus Pop dropped him into a nutrient-rich environment full of veteran guys to show him the ropes. David Robinson, Terry Porter, Mark Bryant, Steven Smith, Bruce Bowen, Antonio Daniels had been there a few years. I mean, you can't drop a rookie into a better breeding grounds. Compare that with what we got goin on here now. Our veteran guys need veterans. I don't know what else to say. Madar is not Parker. And this is not the Spurs. I suspect that you're going to attempt to downplay the role of infrastructure to buoy your points about Madar but that's gonna be a tenuous foundation to stake your claim to.

1) Parker was picked 28th, not 21st. Madar was picked 47th, not 50th. So either you don't know what you're talking about or you're exaggerating to try and make Madar look worse.

Sure, 28th is still a decent amount higher than 47th. But
a) The draft took place in November 2020. That was before Madar's 2020-2021 season in the Israeli pro league. This season he has gotten much better, especially with his outside shot. Last season he shot 26% from 3. So at the time he got drafted by the Celtics with the 47th pick, he was a 26% shooter from 3. This season? 40.2% He is shooting 56% from 3 over his last 7 games. He went from averaging 10.2 points per game last season (the last season he played before getting drafted) to 16.5 points per game this current season. Needless to say, he would get drafted much higher in this year's draft than 47th.
b) Often times the draft can be a crap shoot and its best to not dwell too much on where a player got drafted. I mean, do I really need to rattle off a list of players who in hindsight got drafted way too high or way too low? I don't think so.

2) The Nike Hoop Summit? Yes, Parker played against American players, but he played against college players. Here's the list of participants, most of them are bums:

https://basketball.realgm.com/highschool/nike_hoop_summit/stats/2000

Barely any players from that list did anything in the NBA. Chris Duhon and Jared Jeffries are on there but the event took place 2 years before Jeffries played in the NBA and 4 years before Duhon did. You make it seem like parker "lit up" some star studded group of Americans.

Here's video of Parker from that event:
https://fb.watch/51A3Pgy7kq/

Here's his the video footage they showed the night he got drafted:


What do you see from Parker in those videos that you haven't seen from Madar?

My opinion? Parker looks like he is maybe a tiny bit quicker, maybe a slightly tighter handle. But Madar is taller, 6'3" at age 20 compared to Parker 5'11.5" at age 19. Other than that, I don't see much difference. I see both guys are tough, they play hard, they compete, they can pick your pocket on defense, they go hard to the rim, they're creative with the ball in their hands, they can shoot from the outside, they create well for teammates. Both are guys who could use some more time in the weight room, but both are guys who know how to run the point, can play fast and can move the ball, find the open man, hit shots and attack the basket.

Parker was not a hall of famer when he came into the league at 19. Sure, he turned out to be a hall of famer but at the time he came over from France he was just a short, skinny PG with good quickness and play making ability who was relatively an unknown. Just like Madar is now. It is a fair comparison. Maybe Madar will be as good as Parker, maybe he won't be. Even if Madar comes close to Parker level, the Celtics have an all-star PG on their hands.

Last thing with the Parker comparison. Parker came into the league in 2001. Obviously it's a very different league now in 2021. Here's 2 of the major ways the league is different today:

a) Much more emphasis on the 3 point shot in today's league. Now, let's look at how good each player is at shooting the 3.
Parker = 32% career shooter from 3. Parker shot 32% as a rookie, 33% in his 2nd year, 31% in year 3 and 27% in year 4.
Madar = 40% this year, a huge jump from 26% last season.

Advantage = Madar

b) The game is much less physical today. Around 2005-2008 is when the NBA really started to get softer. The 04-05 season is when hand checking really started to be enforced more. So ever since then defenders can't put their hands on guys like they used to. You see more ticky tack fouls now. Refs are also very aggressive with calling flagrant fouls in today's game and even calling flagrant 2 fouls. They got more aggressive with it ever since the Malice in the Palace because the game was just getting out of hand with hard fouls and physical play, resulting in brawls which was ugly. Long story short, you keep saying Madar is too small, too weak. But Parker did just fine with a smaller frame, and he played in a more physical era. The game isn't as physical now. Sure, it would help Madar if he can bulk up a little bit. But I don't see it holding him back as much as you think.

3) Parker got drafted onto a team of veterans, like you said. Sometimes that works out great because the veterans take the young player under their wing and show him the ropes. Other times, it works out horribly, because the veterans feel threatened by the new, younger player who might take their minutes and take the spotlight away from them even though in their mind they have been in the league longer so they have earned the mins and they've earned the spotlight which results in the young guy being isolated from all the veterans.

But, if you really think a young guy needs veterans to help him along, well we do have Kemba here who can mentor Madar, as well as other guys who have played 6+ seasons like Thompson, Fournier and Smart..plus a coach who knows a thing or 2 about developing young talent from his time coaching at Butler.

4) I'm not saying to throw the world at him. I'm not saying he doesn't have to earn his minutes. You seem to be taking my posts the wrong way. But you seem to think it's a forgone conclusion that he will be nothing more than and of the bench guy, 3rd stringer taking on a role like Waters/Edwards and that we should put him in the G-league.

Here's what I'm saying: You don't throw the world at him. You make him earn his minutes. But you also don't immediately just bury him at the end of the bench and dismiss the possibility of him making a contribution. You realize that he has the chance to be a truly special player in this league, so really work with him, you develop him, you get him a weight lifting program, you get him in the summer league, you give him a chance to earn a spot on the team, you give him a chance to earn minutes and you don't just take him out of the game and send him to G-league the first time he makes a mistake. And you let the chips fall where they may. That's all I'm sayin. I've also worked for over a decade evaluating basketball talent for multiple media outlets, including www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com which is run by a guy who went on to evaluate basketball talent for espn.com
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#188 » by Justin33 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:44 pm

He's under contract for next year so I see no rush to bring him over, Though I could see a better Euro team bringing him in and compensating his current team
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#189 » by Bleeding Green » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:37 pm

Justin33 wrote:He's under contract for next year so I see no rush to bring him over, Though I could see a better Euro team bringing him in and compensating his current team

Yeah I like taking it slow with guys like this. Bring him over when he's capable of stepping in and immediately being a rotation player. If he can develop his game and body on someone else's dime, why rush it? No sense in starting his rookie contract if he's going to spend a year or two in the Tremont Waters role.
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#190 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:37 pm

Hal14 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
Hal14 wrote:1) You make it seem like no one has ever come from overseas and played in the NBA before. Tony Parker took over the starting PG job from day 1 his rookie year after coming from overseas at age 19. Madar will be 21 next season. Dirk came over for his rookie year at age 20 and started half the games he played in. By his 2nd year at age 21 he was full time starter. Both Dirk and Parker, their numbers were down rookie year (most players have a modest rookie year) and then their numbers took a big jump in year 2 at age 20 and 21 respectively. Stojakovic came over to NBA at age 21, scored 8 points a game in 20 mins off the bench his rookie year, gradually got better until year 3 in the NBA at age 23 he was a 20 point per game scorer.

So yeah, the trend is definitely slow/modest rookie year and then rapid improvement in year 2 and year 3. But again, that's the case for most NBA players. If we limit him to 3rd string PG duties though, and give him the workload of a Waters/Edwards on this year's team, it will really slow down his development. He'll still be playing like a rookie in year 2, since he wouldn't have gotten enough reps/minutes in his rookie year.

If we think this guy could be the next Tony Parker (but with better defense, more range on his shot and 1 inch taller) than we should treat him as such and give him some real minutes and really try to develop him into a star - which means not burying him on the bench.

2) The competition in the Israeli pro league is better than NCAA, and people have no problem drooling over college players and projecting them as stars in the NBA. The transition to NBA might not be as bad as you think. Obviously the increased number of games will take some getting used to..

3) Sure, it will certainly be an adjustment going from where he has already lived to this new unknown place here in the US. But Israel has double the poverty rate compared to the US. The US is simply a better, safer place to live. For crying out loud, Madar's daily routine is serving in the army all day before. heading to the gym for his basketball workouts. That is insanely stressful, depressing.


I don't get why your "go to" is always comparing this guy to Hall of Famers. This kid is not Dirk, or Parker. YOU clearly believe he's Tony Parker. Where they icked him, I think Danny and Brad would be satisfied with Tony Delk. They're not gonna rush him at 20. I totally get what YOU would like to see happen. But in real life, this team WILL NOT do that. G-League is a real option though. Get some run up in Maine to get used to things and then join the big club when the season's over. Minutes are earned here, not given. And fact is, because he's 21, they don't need to rush him. I read about the army stuff and watch a video with him talking about it. Kid's got a great head on his shoulders about that stuff. I do see why we took him. Kind of kid you like rooting for, no question. But they don't need to throw the world at this kid in his first year. That wouldn't be fair. I do understand why you're so high on him though.

One last thing about this Parker comparison you keep bringing up. There's a ton of context you're missing here I think. Parker not only lit up the Nike Hoops Summit against American talent, the year previous to put him on the map, but then he killed the Pre-Draft camp that year he was drafted. There was a lot of tape on him performing well internationally against American talent when he was drafted. Which was why he was taken 21 and not 50. Plus Pop dropped him into a nutrient-rich environment full of veteran guys to show him the ropes. David Robinson, Terry Porter, Mark Bryant, Steven Smith, Bruce Bowen, Antonio Daniels had been there a few years. I mean, you can't drop a rookie into a better breeding grounds. Compare that with what we got goin on here now. Our veteran guys need veterans. I don't know what else to say. Madar is not Parker. And this is not the Spurs. I suspect that you're going to attempt to downplay the role of infrastructure to buoy your points about Madar but that's gonna be a tenuous foundation to stake your claim to.

1) Parker was picked 28th, not 21st. Madar was picked 47th, not 50th. So either you don't know what you're talking about or you're exaggerating to try and make Madar look worse.

Sure, 28th is still a decent amount higher than 47th. But
a) The draft took place in November 2020. That was before Madar's 2020-2021 season in the Israeli pro league. This season he has gotten much better, especially with his outside shot. Last season he shot 26% from 3. So at the time he got drafted by the Celtics with the 47th pick, he was a 26% shooter from 3. This season? 40.2% He is shooting 56% from 3 over his last 7 games. He went from averaging 10.2 points per game last season (the last season he played before getting drafted) to 16.5 points per game this current season. Needless to say, he would get drafted much higher in this year's draft than 47th.
b) Often times the draft can be a crap shoot and its best to not dwell too much on where a player got drafted. I mean, do I really need to rattle off a list of players who in hindsight got drafted way too high or way too low? I don't think so.

2) The Nike Hoop Summit? Yes, Parker played against American players, but he played against college players. Here's the list of participants, most of them are bums:

https://basketball.realgm.com/highschool/nike_hoop_summit/stats/2000

Barely any players from that list did anything in the NBA. Chris Duhon and Jared Jeffries are on there but the event took place 2 years before Jeffries played in the NBA and 4 years before Duhon did. You make it seem like parker "lit up" some star studded group of Americans.

Here's video of Parker from that event:
https://fb.watch/51A3Pgy7kq/

Here's his the video footage they showed the night he got drafted:


What do you see from Parker in those videos that you haven't seen from Madar?

My opinion? Parker looks like he is maybe a tiny bit quicker, maybe a slightly tighter handle. But Madar is taller, 6'3" at age 20 compared to Parker 5'11.5" at age 19. Other than that, I don't see much difference. I see both guys are tough, they play hard, they compete, they can pick your pocket on defense, they go hard to the rim, they're creative with the ball in their hands, they can shoot from the outside, they create well for teammates. Both are guys who could use some more time in the weight room, but both are guys who know how to run the point, can play fast and can move the ball, find the open man, hit shots and attack the basket.

Parker was not a hall of famer when he came into the league at 19. Sure, he turned out to be a hall of famer but at the time he came over from France he was just a short, skinny PG with good quickness and play making ability who was relatively an unknown. Just like Madar is now. It is a fair comparison. Maybe Madar will be as good as Parker, maybe he won't be. Even if Madar comes close to Parker level, the Celtics have an all-star PG on their hands.

Last thing with the Parker comparison. Parker came into the league in 2001. Obviously it's a very different league now in 2021. Here's 2 of the major ways the league is different today:

a) Much more emphasis on the 3 point shot in today's league. Now, let's look at how good each player is at shooting the 3.
Parker = 32% career shooter from 3. Parker shot 32% as a rookie, 33% in his 2nd year, 31% in year 3 and 27% in year 4.
Madar = 40% this year, a huge jump from 26% last season.

Advantage = Madar

b) The game is much less physical today. Around 2005-2008 is when the NBA really started to get softer. The 04-05 season is when hand checking really started to be enforced more. So ever since then defenders can't put their hands on guys like they used to. You see more ticky tack fouls now. Refs are also very aggressive with calling flagrant fouls in today's game and even calling flagrant 2 fouls. They got more aggressive with it ever since the Malice in the Palace because the game was just getting out of hand with hard fouls and physical play, resulting in brawls which was ugly. Long story short, you keep saying Madar is too small, too weak. But Parker did just fine with a smaller frame, and he played in a more physical era. The game isn't as physical now. Sure, it would help Madar if he can bulk up a little bit. But I don't see it holding him back as much as you think.

3) Parker got drafted onto a team of veterans, like you said. Sometimes that works out great because the veterans take the young player under their wing and show him the ropes. Other times, it works out horribly, because the veterans feel threatened by the new, younger player who might take their minutes and take the spotlight away from them even though in their mind they have been in the league longer so they have earned the mins and they've earned the spotlight which results in the young guy being isolated from all the veterans.

But, if you really think a young guy needs veterans to help him along, well we do have Kemba here who can mentor Madar, as well as other guys who have played 6+ seasons like Thompson, Fournier and Smart..plus a coach who knows a thing or 2 about developing young talent from his time coaching at Butler.

4) I'm not saying to throw the world at him. I'm not saying he doesn't have to earn his minutes. You seem to be taking my posts the wrong way. But you seem to think it's a forgone conclusion that he will be nothing more than and of the bench guy, 3rd stringer taking on a role like Waters/Edwards and that we should put him in the G-league.

Here's what I'm saying: You don't throw the world at him. You make him earn his minutes. But you also don't immediately just bury him at the end of the bench and dismiss the possibility of him making a contribution. You realize that he has the chance to be a truly special player in this league, so really work with him, you develop him, you get him a weight lifting program, you get him in the summer league, you give him a chance to earn a spot on the team, you give him a chance to earn minutes and you don't just take him out of the game and send him to G-league the first time he makes a mistake. And you let the chips fall where they may. That's all I'm sayin.

5) You really should take it easy with all of the usage of shouty caps letters. I'm not saying he is definitely going to be as good as Tony parker. But he has the potential to be. The footage supports that claim, as explained above. And what's with this nonsense about what I want to happen? lol, I just want to see the Celtics win games - that's all. And based on what I have seen and researched, Madar has the potential to significantly improving the Celtics chances of winning games for the foreseeable future if they bring him over and develop him. Again, I don't have a horse in the race. I have no agenda. Just a Celtics fan, so chill.


If that's what you're getting, then let me clarify. I'm not suggesting that he will be a 3rd string guy for his career here. There's no way for me to know that. I like a lot of what I see from the kid, his makeup and I see a lot of what you are seeing in him as well. And you make a good argument. I actually don't think you and I disagree that much here. What I am suggesting is that Brad and Danny when he comes here will probably put a plan in place that will gradually bring him along and hopefully put him in a position to be successful longterm. And the G-League isn't a punishment. It's an opportunity for young players to get as much minutes as possible to hone their craft. I don't see that as a punishment. I think his development may even be better served getting 30+ minutes his first year up in Maine than 5-6 minutes here and there in Boston. For all we know, he could end up really good in a year or 2. I just don't think Brad will put the pressure for him to be there right away and I think they will have other options that they will go with for next year. After that, who knows. He could be awesome. I am totally on board with your feelings on his potential. If I clouded that with anything I said, let me make it clear. he's got the kind of skillset that makes him a very intriguing prospect that Brad could do a lot with and I hope he does.
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#191 » by Justin33 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:36 am

Latest game
;ab_channel=TomaszKordylewski
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#192 » by cloverleaf » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:53 am

Dogen wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:The Yamster looking good.


Bring on the Yaminator! :reporter:


Ha ha.
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#193 » by Hal14 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:47 pm

Justin33 wrote:Latest game
;ab_channel=TomaszKordylewski

Good stuff once again. This guy plays hard. He really gets after it on D, pressuring the ball and even blocking the shot of bigger guys.. He's quick, always keeps his head up with the ball in his hands, sees the whole floor, looks to find open teammate while also looking to score himself if it's there.

Looks like his shooting was a little off this game but he still was solid..
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#194 » by Justin33 » Sun May 2, 2021 8:16 pm

5-1-21
;ab_channel=Bllen
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#195 » by 31to6 » Sun May 2, 2021 9:25 pm

Green eggs and YAM
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#196 » by cloverleaf » Sun May 2, 2021 10:19 pm

Justin33 wrote:5-1-21
;ab_channel=Bllen


Would somebody please feed that young man some cheeseburgers and fries?
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#197 » by 24istheLAW » Mon May 3, 2021 12:04 am

James Young can't even get off the bench for Hapoel Tel Aviv
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#198 » by bucknersrevenge » Mon May 3, 2021 12:44 am

Justin33 wrote:5-1-21
;ab_channel=Bllen


The kid has some shake in his game for sure. Love what I'm seeing.
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#199 » by Hal14 » Mon May 3, 2021 3:51 pm

Justin33 wrote:5-1-21
;ab_channel=Bllen

Good stuff again from Yam. One thing I picked up on in this vid was his catch and shoot motion. Let's look specifically at the shot at the 2:12 mark of this vid. Before the pass even gets to him, while the pass is on its way to him in mid-air, Madar is already squaring up and stepping into the shot, so that way he catches the pass and just goes straight up into his shot, all in 1 motion ...which was especially important that he was able to do that on this play, since he had a defender closing out hard on him and put a hand right in his face. He had to get that shot off quick or there's no way he would have gotten it off. No question in my mind, Pritchard doesn't make the shot in that situation.

Same thing on the catch and shoot 3 Madar makes at the 2:27 mark. If you pause it at 2:29 you can see how Madar is moving his body towards the basket, already stepping into the shot before the ball even gets to him so that way he's able to catch the pass and go right up into the shot, all in 1 fluid motion. His release is a tiny bit slower on this shot than the previous one, but he also gets up higher, uses his legs and gets a higher release since he shot it from a little further away this time. Still a quicker release than Pritchard.

Now, compare that to Pritchard. Look at this video at the :10 mark. Pritchard with good form on the catch-and-shoot and hits the shot, but seems slow. For him to catch that pass, gather it in, square up to the basket and go up with the shot - it was slower and less fluid than what you see from Madar.



Pritchard doesn't catch and shoot all in 1 motion. He catches, gathers it in, squares up and then shoots and with a slower release. Plus gets less elevation on his shot (doesn't jump as high), plus is 2 inches shorter than Madar so it's harder for Pritchard to shoot over the top of taller defenders, which is why a lot of the 3's you see Pritchard take are from 2, 3 or even 4 feet behind the 3 point line, because if he was right behind the line he'd have a big defender right up on him and it'd be harder to get his shot off over a big defender with slow release. Of course, the downside of shooting it from 2, 3 or even 4 feet behind the line is those are tougher, lower % shots to make.
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Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#200 » by neno » Mon May 3, 2021 9:47 pm

24istheLAW wrote:James Young can't even get off the bench for Hapoel Tel Aviv

Playing to his strength

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