ImageImageImage

Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar!

Moderators: Froob, sully00, ParticleMan, The Comedian, canman1971, Parliament10, djFan71

themoneyteam2
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,389
And1: 7,153
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
   

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#481 » by themoneyteam2 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:19 pm

Hal14 wrote:
themoneyteam2 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Feel better now? Now that you trashed a 20 yr old guy on the internet, a guy who has put his blood, sweat and tears into playing the game of basketball and trying to be the best player he can be so he can try and reach his dream of playing in the NBA - a guy who's far better at basketball than you'll ever be.

I hope trashing him makes you feel better about yourself.


Lol it’s not that deep bro. Dude just basically said Yam is being overhyped and simply isn’t that good for the NBA. Sure he has worked his whole life for it and has a strong work ethic but shows how hard it is to be a player in the league

2 summer league games where he only played 16 mins a game coming off the bench is not even close to a large enough sample size to come to such a conclusion.

Not to mention Madar is playing with guys he had only practiced with for a week (whereas some of them like Edwards and Langford have been playing together for 2 yrs) while playing in a foreign country, against players you've never gone against while at times playing out of position (sometimes when he was out there they had Pritchard at the 1 and Madar at the 2).

Still, out of the 2 games he's played, 1 of them he actually played really well. It's funny how everyone is just writing him off after a rough game vs Denver, completely dismissing how good and how electric he was in the first game vs ATL..


Lol I’m not writing him off because of a summer league game. He was the 47th pick and is coming over to a roster loaded with depth at point guard. Very few late 2nd round picks stay in the league and become consistent contributors. I just don’t see much difference between Tremont Waters and Yam but apparently that’s “hating” for saying Yam is being overhyped and isn’t that good for the NBA. It just goes to show how hard it is to stick in the NBA. Even Tremont Waters was a superior prospect to Yam and high level producer at LSU but is having trouble sticking and being an actual contributor. Summer league doesn’t change my opinion on Yam...
User avatar
Half-Full
Pro Prospect
Posts: 794
And1: 1,157
Joined: Jul 10, 2016
       

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#482 » by Half-Full » Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:30 pm

Hal14 wrote:
LarryBirdsFingr wrote:Cya later, or more than likely never again. Waste of time.

Feel better now? Now that you trashed a 20 yr old guy on the internet, a guy who has put his blood, sweat and tears into playing the game of basketball and trying to be the best player he can be so he can try and reach his dream of playing in the NBA - a guy who's far better at basketball than you'll ever be.

I hope trashing him makes you feel better about yourself.


Yeah, that's a harsh take, and totally unwarranted. A negative assessment that is based on what? Sad.
Hal14
Analyst
Posts: 3,720
And1: 2,485
Joined: Apr 05, 2019

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#483 » by Hal14 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:31 pm

themoneyteam2 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
themoneyteam2 wrote:
Lol it’s not that deep bro. Dude just basically said Yam is being overhyped and simply isn’t that good for the NBA. Sure he has worked his whole life for it and has a strong work ethic but shows how hard it is to be a player in the league

2 summer league games where he only played 16 mins a game coming off the bench is not even close to a large enough sample size to come to such a conclusion.

Not to mention Madar is playing with guys he had only practiced with for a week (whereas some of them like Edwards and Langford have been playing together for 2 yrs) while playing in a foreign country, against players you've never gone against while at times playing out of position (sometimes when he was out there they had Pritchard at the 1 and Madar at the 2).

Still, out of the 2 games he's played, 1 of them he actually played really well. It's funny how everyone is just writing him off after a rough game vs Denver, completely dismissing how good and how electric he was in the first game vs ATL..


Lol I’m not writing him off because of a summer league game. He was the 47th pick and is coming over to a roster loaded with depth at point guard. Very few late 2nd round picks stay in the league and become consistent contributors. I just don’t see much difference between Tremont Waters and Yam but apparently that’s “hating” for saying Yam is being overhyped and isn’t that good for the NBA. It just goes to show how hard it is to stick in the NBA. Even Tremont Waters was a superior prospect to Yam and high level producer at LSU but is having trouble sticking and being an actual contributor. Summer league doesn’t change my opinion on Yam...

Ugh, people still have this stigma they attach to Madar because he was the 47th pick in the draft.

Allow me to explain why people need to stop judging Madar based on where he was drafted.

1) International players typically get picked way later than they should. Dirk, Giannis, Jokic, Ginobili, Sengun, Garuba, Tony Parker. Hell, even Doncic. All of them got picked later than they should have if a re-draft was done. Most of them got picked WAY later than they should have.

2) 2019-2020 season overseas for Madar at age 19 he averaged 10 PPG and 28% from 3. That was the last season he played before getting drafted. Also, at the time he was extremely unknown. Barely anybody in the US knew who he was at the time of the 2020 draft.

Then he gets drafted in 2020 with 47th pick.

THEN in the 2020-2021 season at age 20 he averages 17 PPG and 41% shooting from 3, winning his league's Most Improved Player Award. Along the way, during this past season his video footage was all over YouTube, he became a sensation. Everyone was talking about him. He was getting tons of hype on social media.

Obviously, if madar was drafted in 2021 (AFTER his big season where he improved a ton and was literally a completely different player than the season prior) rather than being drafted in 2020, he would have gotten drafted much higher than 47th. And even then, with these international players, you really have to take their draft position with a grain of salt because of how they get drafted way later than they should almost every time.

It's like if Nesmith entered the draft after his freshman year. Where do you think he would have been drafted? I can guarantee you it wouldn't have been 14th. Let's look at his college stats:

2018-2019 = 11 PPG, 33.7% from 3
2019-2020 = 23 PPG, 52.2% from 3

See the insane improvement he made from freshman season at age 19 to sophomore season at age 20? He came out for the draft after the season where he made a huge improvement and he got picked 14th. If he came out after his freshman season though, he probably wouldn't have even been drafted. He would have MAYBE been the 47th pick. You see where I'm going with this?
MagicBagley18
RealGM
Posts: 11,802
And1: 15,584
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
   

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#484 » by MagicBagley18 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:34 pm

Hal14 wrote:
themoneyteam2 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:2 summer league games where he only played 16 mins a game coming off the bench is not even close to a large enough sample size to come to such a conclusion.

Not to mention Madar is playing with guys he had only practiced with for a week (whereas some of them like Edwards and Langford have been playing together for 2 yrs) while playing in a foreign country, against players you've never gone against while at times playing out of position (sometimes when he was out there they had Pritchard at the 1 and Madar at the 2).

Still, out of the 2 games he's played, 1 of them he actually played really well. It's funny how everyone is just writing him off after a rough game vs Denver, completely dismissing how good and how electric he was in the first game vs ATL..


Lol I’m not writing him off because of a summer league game. He was the 47th pick and is coming over to a roster loaded with depth at point guard. Very few late 2nd round picks stay in the league and become consistent contributors. I just don’t see much difference between Tremont Waters and Yam but apparently that’s “hating” for saying Yam is being overhyped and isn’t that good for the NBA. It just goes to show how hard it is to stick in the NBA. Even Tremont Waters was a superior prospect to Yam and high level producer at LSU but is having trouble sticking and being an actual contributor. Summer league doesn’t change my opinion on Yam...

Ugh, people still have this stigma they attach to Madar because he was the 47th pick in the draft.

Allow me to explain why people need to stop judging Madar based on where he was drafted.

1) International players typically get picked way later than they should. Dirk, Giannis, Jokic, Ginobili, Sengun, Garuba, Tony Parker. Hell, even Doncic. All of them got picked later than they should have if a re-draft was done. Most of them got picked WAY later than they should have.

2) 2019-2020 season overseas for Madar he averaged 10 PPG and 28% from 3. That was the last season he played before getting drafted. Also, at the time he was extremely unknown. Barely anybody in the US knew who he was at the time of the 2020 draft.

Then he gets drafted in 2020 with 47th pick.

THEN in the 2020-2021 season he averages 17 PPG and 41% shooting from 3, winning his league's Most Improved Player Award. Along the way, during this past season his video footage was all over YouTube, he became a sensation. Everyone was talking about him. He was getting tons of hype on social media.

Obviously, if madar was drafted in 2021 (AFTER his big season where he improved a ton and was literally a completely different player than the season prior) rather than being drafted in 2020, he would have gotten drafted much higher than 47th. And even then, with these international players, you really have to take their draft position with a grain of salt because of how they get drafted way later than they should almost every time.


Just follow him in Israel for another year that’s where he belongs not here- not yet. waste of time for the Celtics and him this season.
themoneyteam2
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,389
And1: 7,153
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
   

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#485 » by themoneyteam2 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:35 pm

Hal14 wrote:
themoneyteam2 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:2 summer league games where he only played 16 mins a game coming off the bench is not even close to a large enough sample size to come to such a conclusion.

Not to mention Madar is playing with guys he had only practiced with for a week (whereas some of them like Edwards and Langford have been playing together for 2 yrs) while playing in a foreign country, against players you've never gone against while at times playing out of position (sometimes when he was out there they had Pritchard at the 1 and Madar at the 2).

Still, out of the 2 games he's played, 1 of them he actually played really well. It's funny how everyone is just writing him off after a rough game vs Denver, completely dismissing how good and how electric he was in the first game vs ATL..


Lol I’m not writing him off because of a summer league game. He was the 47th pick and is coming over to a roster loaded with depth at point guard. Very few late 2nd round picks stay in the league and become consistent contributors. I just don’t see much difference between Tremont Waters and Yam but apparently that’s “hating” for saying Yam is being overhyped and isn’t that good for the NBA. It just goes to show how hard it is to stick in the NBA. Even Tremont Waters was a superior prospect to Yam and high level producer at LSU but is having trouble sticking and being an actual contributor. Summer league doesn’t change my opinion on Yam...

Ugh, people still have this stigma they attach to Madar because he was the 47th pick in the draft.

Allow me to explain why people need to stop judging Madar based on where he was drafted.

1) International players typically get picked way later than they should. Dirk, Giannis, Jokic, Ginobili, Sengun, Garuba, Tony Parker. Hell, even Doncic. All of them got picked later than they should have if a re-draft was done. Most of them got picked WAY later than they should have.

2) 2019-2020 season overseas for Madar he averaged 10 PPG and 28% from 3. That was the last season he played before getting drafted. Also, at the time he was extremely unknown. Barely anybody in the US knew who he was at the time of the 2020 draft.

Then he gets drafted in 2020 with 47th pick.

THEN in the 2020-2021 season he averages 17 PPG and 41% shooting from 3, winning his league's Most Improved Player Award. Along the way, during this past season his video footage was all over YouTube, he became a sensation. Everyone was talking about him. He was getting tons of hype on social media.

Obviously, if madar was drafted in 2021 (AFTER his big season where he improved a ton and was literally a completely different player than the season prior) rather than being drafted in 2020, he would have gotten drafted much higher than 47th. And even then, with these international players, you really have to take their draft position with a grain of salt because of how they get drafted way later than they should almost every time.


Ok it’s clear we disagree on how good Yam is and his future in this league.
User avatar
Half-Full
Pro Prospect
Posts: 794
And1: 1,157
Joined: Jul 10, 2016
       

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#486 » by Half-Full » Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:40 pm

themoneyteam2 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
LarryBirdsFingr wrote:Cya later, or more than likely never again. Waste of time.

Feel better now? Now that you trashed a 20 yr old guy on the internet, a guy who has put his blood, sweat and tears into playing the game of basketball and trying to be the best player he can be so he can try and reach his dream of playing in the NBA - a guy who's far better at basketball than you'll ever be.

I hope trashing him makes you feel better about yourself.


Lol it’s not that deep bro. Dude just basically said Yam is being overhyped and simply isn’t that good for the NBA. Sure he has worked his whole life for it and has a strong work ethic but shows how hard it is to be a player in the league


Here's how to say he is being overhyped: "Let's not get carried away about what Yam can bring. I haven't seen anything thus far to indicate that he will make it in the NBA, but I've been wrong before." That's a big contrast to saying that he is a "waste of time," which is the polar opposite of overhyping, and needlessly harsh.
themoneyteam2
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,389
And1: 7,153
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
   

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#487 » by themoneyteam2 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:56 pm

Half-Full wrote:
themoneyteam2 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Feel better now? Now that you trashed a 20 yr old guy on the internet, a guy who has put his blood, sweat and tears into playing the game of basketball and trying to be the best player he can be so he can try and reach his dream of playing in the NBA - a guy who's far better at basketball than you'll ever be.

I hope trashing him makes you feel better about yourself.


Lol it’s not that deep bro. Dude just basically said Yam is being overhyped and simply isn’t that good for the NBA. Sure he has worked his whole life for it and has a strong work ethic but shows how hard it is to be a player in the league


Here's how to say he is being overhyped: "Let's not get carried away about what Yam can bring. I haven't seen anything thus far to indicate that he will make it in the NBA, but I've been wrong before." That's a big contrast to saying that he is a "waste of time," which is the polar opposite of overhyping, and needlessly harsh.


Lol it’s an online message board. People are free to type what they want and if that’s what he believes, that’s his right.
Hal14
Analyst
Posts: 3,720
And1: 2,485
Joined: Apr 05, 2019

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#488 » by Hal14 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:01 pm

themoneyteam2 wrote:
Half-Full wrote:
themoneyteam2 wrote:
Lol it’s not that deep bro. Dude just basically said Yam is being overhyped and simply isn’t that good for the NBA. Sure he has worked his whole life for it and has a strong work ethic but shows how hard it is to be a player in the league


Here's how to say he is being overhyped: "Let's not get carried away about what Yam can bring. I haven't seen anything thus far to indicate that he will make it in the NBA, but I've been wrong before." That's a big contrast to saying that he is a "waste of time," which is the polar opposite of overhyping, and needlessly harsh.


Lol it’s an online message board. People are free to type what they want and if that’s what he believes, that’s his right.

While that's true, we can all try to level up this particular message board by holding ourselves to a higher standard, and having more maturity and being less amateur-ish with our discourse.

Simply calling a guy a "waste of time" or saying "he'll never play in the NBA" with nothing of substance to back it up..about a 19 or 20 yr old kid after 2 summer league games is more on the amateur side (as well as some of the other baiting/trolling I've seen on here lately) is stuff you'd be more likely to see on one of the Celtics facebook groups or on Reddit.

I come here for what usually is more civil, knowledgable conversation.
User avatar
Half-Full
Pro Prospect
Posts: 794
And1: 1,157
Joined: Jul 10, 2016
       

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#489 » by Half-Full » Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:18 pm

themoneyteam2 wrote:
Half-Full wrote:
themoneyteam2 wrote:
Lol it’s not that deep bro. Dude just basically said Yam is being overhyped and simply isn’t that good for the NBA. Sure he has worked his whole life for it and has a strong work ethic but shows how hard it is to be a player in the league


Here's how to say he is being overhyped: "Let's not get carried away about what Yam can bring. I haven't seen anything thus far to indicate that he will make it in the NBA, but I've been wrong before." That's a big contrast to saying that he is a "waste of time," which is the polar opposite of overhyping, and needlessly harsh.


Lol it’s an online message board. People are free to type what they want and if that’s what he believes, that’s his right.


Of course. I was doing the same thing.
User avatar
grindtime22
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,031
And1: 4,471
Joined: Jan 30, 2012
     

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#490 » by grindtime22 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:12 pm

I'd like to see him get some run with Bruno in the next couple of games. I think everybody is having a rough time "running the team" with someone like Auguste on the court. The ball screens don't do anything and there is no roll threat to run traditional NBA offense. When it was left to Romeo or Madar to run the offense, Bruno was mostly on the bench (from my bad memory anyway).
return2glory
RealGM
Posts: 14,916
And1: 7,306
Joined: Feb 24, 2005

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#491 » by return2glory » Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:01 am

Yam hasn't gotten much of a chance in SL so far. I wanted Pritchard to play 2 games and shut it down. But we are 3-0 now and I want Pritchard to keep playing in SL.

However, I would want Yam to start one game and run the point. That's where he excels.

As far as this season, with the addition of Shroder, I don't think we have room for Yam this year. He would be playing behind Smart, Schoder, and Pritchard this season. We still have Dunn but the Celtics could and should be looking to trade him.
User avatar
Larry_Russell
Sophomore
Posts: 243
And1: 244
Joined: Jun 23, 2021

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#492 » by Larry_Russell » Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:33 am

I still think there is room on the roster for yam as a 2wp.

I want him working with nba coaches, not the guys he uses now.
hugepatsfan
Starter
Posts: 2,382
And1: 1,862
Joined: May 28, 2020
       

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#493 » by hugepatsfan » Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:20 pm

I'm pretty sure the NBA only allows a team to contribute $750K to a player's buyout overseas. Anything in excess of that, the player needs to pay himself.

IDK what Mader's buyout would be, but I'm pretty sure a 2-way contract is only like $80K. So let's say his buyout is $1M. If we can only pay $750K then he has to pay the $250K himself but a 2 way deal is only $80K. It wouldn't make sense for him to come over for a 2 way deal if those are the numbers.

And then from the front office side, looking at the cap math for next year, it would behoove the front office to not have his money on the books to start. The math is reaaaaaaaaaaaaaal tight on a max salary slot already just clearing the roster and using rookie minimum roster spot cap holds.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2112365

I did the math in that thread. If Mader is on the books at the 2nd year player minimum next year, the difference between that and a rookie minimum cap hold would leave us juuuuuuuuust shy of a max slot next year for Beal unless we pay assets to dump Horford vs waiving him and stretching the dead money.

I get the excitement, but just overall I think it makes the most sense to wait another year for him.
User avatar
Larry_Russell
Sophomore
Posts: 243
And1: 244
Joined: Jun 23, 2021

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#494 » by Larry_Russell » Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:26 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:I'm pretty sure the NBA only allows a team to contribute $750K to a player's buyout overseas. Anything in excess of that, the player needs to pay himself.

IDK what Mader's buyout would be, but I'm pretty sure a 2-way contract is only like $80K. So let's say his buyout is $1M. If we can only pay $750K then he has to pay the $250K himself but a 2 way deal is only $80K. It wouldn't make sense for him to come over for a 2 way deal if those are the numbers.

And then from the front office side, looking at the cap math for next year, it would behoove the front office to not have his money on the books to start. The math is reaaaaaaaaaaaaaal tight on a max salary slot already just clearing the roster and using rookie minimum roster spot cap holds.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2112365

I did the math in that thread. If Mader is on the books at the 2nd year player minimum next year, the difference between that and a rookie minimum cap hold would leave us juuuuuuuuust shy of a max slot next year for Beal unless we pay assets to dump Horford vs waiving him and stretching the dead money.

I get the excitement, but just overall I think it makes the most sense to wait another year for him.



At this point, imo, its between him and edwards.
Drop edwards frees the money to have him on salary and still get a max contract.
hugepatsfan
Starter
Posts: 2,382
And1: 1,862
Joined: May 28, 2020
       

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#495 » by hugepatsfan » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:19 pm

Larry_Russell wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:I'm pretty sure the NBA only allows a team to contribute $750K to a player's buyout overseas. Anything in excess of that, the player needs to pay himself.

IDK what Mader's buyout would be, but I'm pretty sure a 2-way contract is only like $80K. So let's say his buyout is $1M. If we can only pay $750K then he has to pay the $250K himself but a 2 way deal is only $80K. It wouldn't make sense for him to come over for a 2 way deal if those are the numbers.

And then from the front office side, looking at the cap math for next year, it would behoove the front office to not have his money on the books to start. The math is reaaaaaaaaaaaaaal tight on a max salary slot already just clearing the roster and using rookie minimum roster spot cap holds.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2112365

I did the math in that thread. If Mader is on the books at the 2nd year player minimum next year, the difference between that and a rookie minimum cap hold would leave us juuuuuuuuust shy of a max slot next year for Beal unless we pay assets to dump Horford vs waiving him and stretching the dead money.

I get the excitement, but just overall I think it makes the most sense to wait another year for him.



At this point, imo, its between him and edwards.
Drop edwards frees the money to have him on salary and still get a max contract.


Math on that actually juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust fits. I already had Carsen off next year's cap sheet with his option declined though. But here's the math:

If we waive and stretch Horford, that's $4,833,333 of dead money next year. Add in Demetrius Jackson and right off the bat we have $4,926,190 of dead money.

Tatum/Brown/Nesmith/Pritchard are on the books for a combined $65,136,411. So add in the dead money and we are now at $70,062,601 with 4 roster spots filled.

Next year's cap is projected at $119M which means Beal's max would be $41,650,000. That brings us to $111,712,601 in salaris with 5 spots filled.

You have to factor in roster space holds to get us up to the minimum 12 spots. Those are for the rookie minimum of $953,000 each. Add in 7 of those ($6,671,000) and we are at $118,383,601. Just below the $119M cap. We have $616,399 of wiggle room.

Next year's 2nd year player minimum is $1,534,000. So an extra $581K to take on. If we have Madar on the roster at that number we can take away one of the cap holds and we fit it all under the cap with $35,399 under the cap.

So we can sign Madar if we want, but anything more than the minimum and now you've complicated things to at least some degree. Granted, if Beal is turning down the higher raises with WAS to sign here it probably wouldn't be an issue to get him to accept $100K less in year 1. But it'd be nice to have the full slot open.
User avatar
Parliament10
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 33,356
And1: 36,304
Joined: Jul 24, 2009
       

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#496 » by Parliament10 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:42 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:I'm pretty sure the NBA only allows a team to contribute $750K to a player's buyout overseas. Anything in excess of that, the player needs to pay himself.

IDK what Mader's buyout would be, but I'm pretty sure a 2-way contract is only like $80K. So let's say his buyout is $1M. If we can only pay $750K then he has to pay the $250K himself but a 2 way deal is only $80K. It wouldn't make sense for him to come over for a 2 way deal if those are the numbers.

And then from the front office side, looking at the cap math for next year, it would behoove the front office to not have his money on the books to start. The math is reaaaaaaaaaaaaaal tight on a max salary slot already just clearing the roster and using rookie minimum roster spot cap holds.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2112365

I did the math in that thread. If Mader is on the books at the 2nd year player minimum next year, the difference between that and a rookie minimum cap hold would leave us juuuuuuuuust shy of a max slot next year for Beal unless we pay assets to dump Horford vs waiving him and stretching the dead money.

I get the excitement, but just overall I think it makes the most sense to wait another year for him.

Actually, a Two-Way Deal for 2021-22 = Salary is 50% of a rookie minimum ($462,629).
And I think that Madar's team was asking for at most $700K.

https://www.blazersedge.com/2021/7/18/22582714/nba-two-way-contracts-changes-how-they-work-playoffs-converting-contract
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/07/nba-to-carry-over-most-of-new-two-way-rules-to-2021-22.html
"It's not about me, it's about the Team."
~ Marcus Smart
hugepatsfan
Starter
Posts: 2,382
And1: 1,862
Joined: May 28, 2020
       

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#497 » by hugepatsfan » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:52 pm

Parliament10 wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:I'm pretty sure the NBA only allows a team to contribute $750K to a player's buyout overseas. Anything in excess of that, the player needs to pay himself.

IDK what Mader's buyout would be, but I'm pretty sure a 2-way contract is only like $80K. So let's say his buyout is $1M. If we can only pay $750K then he has to pay the $250K himself but a 2 way deal is only $80K. It wouldn't make sense for him to come over for a 2 way deal if those are the numbers.

And then from the front office side, looking at the cap math for next year, it would behoove the front office to not have his money on the books to start. The math is reaaaaaaaaaaaaaal tight on a max salary slot already just clearing the roster and using rookie minimum roster spot cap holds.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2112365

I did the math in that thread. If Mader is on the books at the 2nd year player minimum next year, the difference between that and a rookie minimum cap hold would leave us juuuuuuuuust shy of a max slot next year for Beal unless we pay assets to dump Horford vs waiving him and stretching the dead money.

I get the excitement, but just overall I think it makes the most sense to wait another year for him.

Actually, a Two-Way Deal for 2021-22 = Salary is 50% of a rookie minimum ($462,629).
And I think that Madar's team was asking for at most $700K.

https://www.blazersedge.com/2021/7/18/22582714/nba-two-way-contracts-changes-how-they-work-playoffs-converting-contract
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/07/nba-to-carry-over-most-of-new-two-way-rules-to-2021-22.html


Nice, good stuff. That takes care of it on the Madar side as far as bein worth it to come over. And my last post shows that it worked on the team side for him to come over financially as long as he's signing for the minimum.

Last question is just if it's worth starting the clock. It seems there's no playing time for him this year but he'd benefit from being over here. But that puts him a year closer to free agency compared to waiting until next year where there's more of a role to carve out for him. So what's the cost-benefit analysis of that aspect is the question really.
User avatar
Parliament10
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 33,356
And1: 36,304
Joined: Jul 24, 2009
       

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#498 » by Parliament10 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:56 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:I'm pretty sure the NBA only allows a team to contribute $750K to a player's buyout overseas. Anything in excess of that, the player needs to pay himself.

IDK what Mader's buyout would be, but I'm pretty sure a 2-way contract is only like $80K. So let's say his buyout is $1M. If we can only pay $750K then he has to pay the $250K himself but a 2 way deal is only $80K. It wouldn't make sense for him to come over for a 2 way deal if those are the numbers.

And then from the front office side, looking at the cap math for next year, it would behoove the front office to not have his money on the books to start. The math is reaaaaaaaaaaaaaal tight on a max salary slot already just clearing the roster and using rookie minimum roster spot cap holds.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2112365

I did the math in that thread. If Mader is on the books at the 2nd year player minimum next year, the difference between that and a rookie minimum cap hold would leave us juuuuuuuuust shy of a max slot next year for Beal unless we pay assets to dump Horford vs waiving him and stretching the dead money.

I get the excitement, but just overall I think it makes the most sense to wait another year for him.

Actually, a Two-Way Deal for 2021-22 = Salary is 50% of a rookie minimum ($462,629).
And I think that Madar's team was asking for at most $700K.

https://www.blazersedge.com/2021/7/18/22582714/nba-two-way-contracts-changes-how-they-work-playoffs-converting-contract
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/07/nba-to-carry-over-most-of-new-two-way-rules-to-2021-22.html


Nice, good stuff. That takes care of it on the Madar side as far as bein worth it to come over. And my last post shows that it worked on the team side for him to come over financially as long as he's signing for the minimum.

Last question is just if it's worth starting the clock. It seems there's no playing time for him this year but he'd benefit from being over here. But that puts him a year closer to free agency compared to waiting until next year where there's more of a role to carve out for him. So what's the cost-benefit analysis of that aspect is the question really.

The Cost-Analysis is a good question, for Madar. -- The road to Begarin, is much less complicated.
It will be interesting to see which one gets here, at least on a Two-Way.
"It's not about me, it's about the Team."
~ Marcus Smart
User avatar
Spin Move
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 9,852
And1: 1,663
Joined: Sep 22, 2004
     

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#499 » by Spin Move » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:07 pm

Parliament10 wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:Actually, a Two-Way Deal for 2021-22 = Salary is 50% of a rookie minimum ($462,629).
And I think that Madar's team was asking for at most $700K.

https://www.blazersedge.com/2021/7/18/22582714/nba-two-way-contracts-changes-how-they-work-playoffs-converting-contract
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/07/nba-to-carry-over-most-of-new-two-way-rules-to-2021-22.html


Nice, good stuff. That takes care of it on the Madar side as far as bein worth it to come over. And my last post shows that it worked on the team side for him to come over financially as long as he's signing for the minimum.

Last question is just if it's worth starting the clock. It seems there's no playing time for him this year but he'd benefit from being over here. But that puts him a year closer to free agency compared to waiting until next year where there's more of a role to carve out for him. So what's the cost-benefit analysis of that aspect is the question really.

The Cost-Analysis is a good question, for Madar. -- The road to Begarin, is much less complicated.
It will be interesting to see which one gets here, at least on a Two-Way.


To bring in a star we are going t basically have to clean house next offseason, at most 1 of Smart or R williams wil be here, decent chance horford gets traded along with a 1st (this will have to happen if we re-up smart) Richardson is expiring, the only players not on rookie contracts for next season currently are Tatum Brown and Horford, if we use another 1st to move horford then we will really be needing bodies the next few years it makes alot more sense to keep them both oversees and keep team control going forward so when they are a little older they can be useful players for more of their contracts.

We are a star player short of being a contender and every doller is going count next offseason.
Hal14
Analyst
Posts: 3,720
And1: 2,485
Joined: Apr 05, 2019

Re: Welcome to Virtual Boston, Yam Madar! 

Post#500 » by Hal14 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:53 pm

Spin Move wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:
Nice, good stuff. That takes care of it on the Madar side as far as bein worth it to come over. And my last post shows that it worked on the team side for him to come over financially as long as he's signing for the minimum.

Last question is just if it's worth starting the clock. It seems there's no playing time for him this year but he'd benefit from being over here. But that puts him a year closer to free agency compared to waiting until next year where there's more of a role to carve out for him. So what's the cost-benefit analysis of that aspect is the question really.

The Cost-Analysis is a good question, for Madar. -- The road to Begarin, is much less complicated.
It will be interesting to see which one gets here, at least on a Two-Way.


To bring in a star we are going t basically have to clean house next offseason, at most 1 of Smart or R williams wil be here, decent chance horford gets traded along with a 1st (this will have to happen if we re-up smart) Richardson is expiring, the only players not on rookie contracts for next season currently are Tatum Brown and Horford, if we use another 1st to move horford then we will really be needing bodies the next few years it makes alot more sense to keep them both oversees and keep team control going forward so when they are a little older they can be useful players for more of their contracts.

We are a star player short of being a contender and every doller is going count next offseason.

My question is this. In terms of starting the clock and getting closer to free agency, how does that work with a 2-way contract? Cause 2-way contract is different than a rookie deal, right? Regardless of whether it's Begarin or Madar, could we theoretically give 1 of them a 2-way contract for 2021-2022, then give them a rookie contract next summer and start the clock on their rookie deal in the 2022-2023 season? If the answer is no, I think it's absolutely best to keep both of them overseas for another year. They're both a year away from being good contributors off the bench on a playoff team so mine as well wait a year and start the clock next year.

Unless a 2-way contract doesn't "start the clock" because for 1 of them at least, being on a 2-way might be better for their development than going back overseas..

Return to Boston Celtics