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CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion

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CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#1 » by Fencer reregistered » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:01 pm

It's probably worth having a CBA thread, all the more because last I heard there was no reliable FAQ for the new deal.

First question from me: If the Celtics avoid vs. non-avoid the luxury tax, what are the ramifications? In particular, does avoiding it for 2020-21 help greatly with avoiding repeater tax problems down the road?
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Re: CBA minutiae 

Post#2 » by Bleeding Green » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:09 pm

Yeah the repeater tax is insane in the NBA. You can read about it here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q18

If you expect the Celtics to be competitive for the next 5+ seasons and for Tatum to be maxed, Smart re-signed, one of the young players re-signed to a 20mm+ contract, Hayward traded for future salary considerations, etc, it's not hard to, in a few years be staring down at 100+ million in tax for a given year. The Warriors are paying 64 mil in tax this year and they sucked ass last year, will probably be middling this year. Crazy how fast things change. And they have a trade exception from the Iguodala trade, that if they use fully, their tax bill would be like 135 million.

It's not my money, but if the Celtics aren't competing for titles every single year, I wouldn't expect the owners to be OK with chucking 100 million down the drain so their team can lose in the ECF every year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm no expert.
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Re: CBA minutiae 

Post#3 » by Jammer » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:59 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:Yeah the repeater tax is insane in the NBA. You can read about it here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q18

....

It's not my money, but if the Celtics aren't competing for titles every single year, I wouldn't expect the owners to be OK with chucking 100 million down the drain so their team can lose in the ECF every year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm no expert.


Yeah, and the benefit of getting to the Eastern Conference Finals was greatly lessened by not having the income from all the playoff games that fans and concessions and parking generate. It was just TV money. And 10 less regular season games last year and this year. They have to be saying "ouch" no matter how rich they are.
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Roster / Salary status 

Post#4 » by HondoFave » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:59 pm

Can someone confirm my understanding of the roster / salary status:

Kemba 34.4
Smart 13.4
Tatum 9.9
Brown 23
Theis 5
Kanter 5
Romeo 3.6
VP 2.6
G Wms 2.5
R Wms 2
Edwards 1.5
Nesmith 3.5
Pritchard 2
Ojeleye 1.8

Free agents:
Hayward
Wanamaker
Green
Waters
Fall

If this is accurate I think they may be under the cap?
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#5 » by Jammer » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:49 pm

Well, they are over the cap, but no where near the lux tax:

34,379,100 Kemba Walker
23,883,920 Jaylen Brown (incentives for making All-Star Team, but probably considered unlikely since he did not make last year)
13,446,428 Marcus Smart
9,897,120 Jayson Tatum
5,005,350 Enes Kanter
5,000,000 Daniel Theis
3,631,200 Romeo Langford
3,458,400 Aaron Nesmith
2,619,207 Vincent Poirier
2,498,760 Grant Williams
2,035,800 Peyton Pritchard
2,029,800 Robert Williams III
1,517,981 Carsen Edwards
1,039,080 Guerschon Yabusele (waived)
92,817 Demetrius Jackson (waived)

The above 13 players total 110,535,083.

Hard to believe that Robert Williams III will have to get off the trainers table for Peyton Pritchard. Maybe rookie's don't have standing there, regardless of whose salary is higher. Then again, Robert could probably just growl at Pritchard.

I don't think they will let Ojeleye's salary guarantee on Saturday (or 6 P.M. Friday) if they can't find a trade for him.

Don't know if the mid-level will get anyone that can help this year. Probably better off with vet minimums. Wonder if DeMarcus Cousins will be considered for one of the last two spots. Of course, if they did that, Poirier would probably be heading out. But I would think that someone would actually want him, even if just for a highly protected second rounder. I have a suspicion that there's more to Poirier than he's shown, but he keeps getting yanked after 2 minutes or only playing in garbage time.

Javonte Green is unguaranteed until well into the season but ethically they should cut him loose if they don't plan to keep him on.

Still wondering about a Hayward S&T if Hayward does not re-sign for something "friendly." But the Knicks just declined enough team options to open up $40 million in cap space. If they can't get their first choice, Russell Westbrook, in a no cost salary dump, the Knicks plan B is to sign Hayward and a point guard like Jeff Teague. The Knicks assistant GM was responsible for Hayward's development in Utah, and may have even advocated drafting him in the first place.

Surprised Edwards was not part of a trade, but then someone (i.e. Indiana, his home state) would have to want him.
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#6 » by HondoFave » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:33 am

thx, Jammer

Appreciate the response
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#7 » by LarryBirdsFingr » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:38 am

The status is *not great*
I don't believe in statistics. There are too many factors that can't be measured. You can't measure a ballplayer's heart. -Red Auerbach

Marcus Smart is an underrated shooter
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#8 » by HondoFave » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:56 am

just got a bit better with the Poirier trade.

Why Oklahoma did this is perplexing
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#9 » by Jammer » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:02 am

HondoFave wrote:just got a bit better with the Poirier trade.

Why Oklahoma did this is perplexing

Because the Celtics included Poirier's entire 2021 salary, plus probably an extra $100,000 for the trouble. The second round pick from OKC is probably Top 55 protected, meaning it will never be delivered.

If Adam's get traded, Poirier will see significant minutes.
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#10 » by captain green » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:02 am

Kemba\ smart\ Pritchard\ waters
Langford\ edwarfs
Brown\ Nesmith
Tatum\ gwill
Thies \ timelord\ tacko
That the team so far
We always talk about there’s A-to-Z… really, there’s A-to-G or -E,’” Ainge told Celtics.com of a team’s typical offseason agenda. “This year, there’s definitely A-to-Z.” : danny ainge
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#11 » by djFan71 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:03 am

HondoFave wrote:just got a bit better with the Poirier trade.

Why Oklahoma did this is perplexing

They most likely took more money than it will cost to waive him and gave us back a fake 2nd that will never be transferred (top 55 protected or something). So, they just made some money.
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#12 » by HondoFave » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:18 am

Jammer - does this mean he is included in the Celtics cap or not?
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#13 » by Jammer » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:24 am

HondoFave wrote:Jammer - does this mean he is included in the Celtics cap or not?


No, now the Celtics are under the cap.

Re-posted below, only 12 players on roster until they guarantee Ojeleye by this week-end or Javonte Green (guarantee date is well into the season).


34,379,100 Kemba Walker
23,883,920 Jaylen Brown (incentives for making All-Star Team, but probably considered unlikely since he did not make last year)
13,446,428 Marcus Smart
9,897,120 Jayson Tatum
5,005,350 Enes Kanter
5,000,000 Daniel Theis
3,631,200 Romeo Langford
3,458,400 Aaron Nesmith
2,498,760 Grant Williams
2,035,800 Peyton Pritchard
2,029,800 Robert Williams III
1,517,981 Carsen Edwards
1,039,080 Guerschon Yabusele (waived)
92,817 Demetrius Jackson (waived)

The above 12 players (now without Poirier) total 107,915,876.
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#14 » by HondoFave » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:36 am

thx, Jammer
was a good day for the C's
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#15 » by djFan71 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:41 am

Jammer wrote:
HondoFave wrote:Jammer - does this mean he is included in the Celtics cap or not?


No, now the Celtics are under the cap.

Re-posted below, only 12 players on roster until they guarantee Ojeleye by this week-end or Javonte Green (guarantee date is well into the season).


34,379,100 Kemba Walker
23,883,920 Jaylen Brown (incentives for making All-Star Team, but probably considered unlikely since he did not make last year)
13,446,428 Marcus Smart
9,897,120 Jayson Tatum
5,005,350 Enes Kanter
5,000,000 Daniel Theis
3,631,200 Romeo Langford
3,458,400 Aaron Nesmith
2,498,760 Grant Williams
2,035,800 Peyton Pritchard
2,029,800 Robert Williams III
1,517,981 Carsen Edwards
1,039,080 Guerschon Yabusele (waived)
92,817 Demetrius Jackson (waived)

The above 12 players (now without Poirier) total 107,915,876.

Where'd you get the rookie #s? If I do 120% of these I don't get the same values:
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2021

I don't know if realgm is up to date with any changes for the new year tho.
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#16 » by Jammer » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:44 am

djFan71 wrote:
Jammer wrote:
HondoFave wrote:Jammer - does this mean he is included in the Celtics cap or not?


No, now the Celtics are under the cap.

Re-posted below, only 12 players on roster until they guarantee Ojeleye by this week-end or Javonte Green (guarantee date is well into the season).


34,379,100 Kemba Walker
23,883,920 Jaylen Brown (incentives for making All-Star Team, but probably considered unlikely since he did not make last year)
13,446,428 Marcus Smart
9,897,120 Jayson Tatum
5,005,350 Enes Kanter
5,000,000 Daniel Theis
3,631,200 Romeo Langford
3,458,400 Aaron Nesmith
2,498,760 Grant Williams
2,035,800 Peyton Pritchard
2,029,800 Robert Williams III
1,517,981 Carsen Edwards
1,039,080 Guerschon Yabusele (waived)
92,817 Demetrius Jackson (waived)

The above 12 players (now without Poirier) total 107,915,876.

Where'd you get the rookie #s? If I do 120% of these I don't get the same values:
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2021

I don't know if realgm is up to date with any changes for the new year tho.


I multipled the RealGM base 2021 number for picks 14 and 26 by 1.2
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#17 » by djFan71 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:50 am

Jammer wrote:
djFan71 wrote:Where'd you get the rookie #s? If I do 120% of these I don't get the same values:
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2021

I don't know if realgm is up to date with any changes for the new year tho.


I multipled the RealGM base 2021 number for picks 14 and 26 by 1.2

lol, so did I but I read your Nesmith one wrong. Twice..... nvm. I get the same ones when I read yours correctly. :)
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Re: CBA minutiae 

Post#18 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:22 am

So the FAQ is back up. I thought otherwise and didn't check. Thanks!

So repeater is based on you having been in the luxury tax 3 of the past 4 seasons. Uh ... I've forgotten which recent years the Cs were or weren't in the luxury tax.

Bleeding Green wrote:Yeah the repeater tax is insane in the NBA. You can read about it here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q18

If you expect the Celtics to be competitive for the next 5+ seasons and for Tatum to be maxed, Smart re-signed, one of the young players re-signed to a 20mm+ contract, Hayward traded for future salary considerations, etc, it's not hard to, in a few years be staring down at 100+ million in tax for a given year. The Warriors are paying 64 mil in tax this year and they sucked ass last year, will probably be middling this year. Crazy how fast things change. And they have a trade exception from the Iguodala trade, that if they use fully, their tax bill would be like 135 million.

It's not my money, but if the Celtics aren't competing for titles every single year, I wouldn't expect the owners to be OK with chucking 100 million down the drain so their team can lose in the ECF every year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm no expert.
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Re: CBA minutiae 

Post#19 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:26 am

Also from the FAQ, pertaining to Tacko and Tremont:

the qualifying offer is a Two-Way contract, with $50,000 guaranteed


So it is NOT a lock that the Cs are planning to bring Tacko onto the roster of 15.

Waters either, except that he's the G-League RoTY and will probably look like a roster lock if the Cs indeed let Wanamaker walk.
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Re: CBA minutiae 

Post#20 » by sully00 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:52 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:So the FAQ is back up. I thought otherwise and didn't check. Thanks!

So repeater is based on you having been in the luxury tax 3 of the past 4 seasons. Uh ... I've forgotten which recent years the Cs were or weren't in the luxury tax.

Bleeding Green wrote:Yeah the repeater tax is insane in the NBA. You can read about it here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q18

If you expect the Celtics to be competitive for the next 5+ seasons and for Tatum to be maxed, Smart re-signed, one of the young players re-signed to a 20mm+ contract, Hayward traded for future salary considerations, etc, it's not hard to, in a few years be staring down at 100+ million in tax for a given year. The Warriors are paying 64 mil in tax this year and they sucked ass last year, will probably be middling this year. Crazy how fast things change. And they have a trade exception from the Iguodala trade, that if they use fully, their tax bill would be like 135 million.

It's not my money, but if the Celtics aren't competing for titles every single year, I wouldn't expect the owners to be OK with chucking 100 million down the drain so their team can lose in the ECF every year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm no expert.


Boston paid 3.8 mil in lux tax in '18-'19 otherwise they have been under.

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