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CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion

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Re: CBA minutiae 

Post#41 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:13 pm

sully00 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
grindtime22 wrote:It's nice to duck the tax, we probably should have done it in 18/19. It would be good to get it done this year.

It isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be though. Don't get me wrong... it sucks. If you are barely over the tax, then your tax bill could almost double with the repeater penalty. The real pain is in the level system though, more than the repeater. The Warriors are the extreme. Most of their pain is coming from being so far over the tax. The repeater just adds on to it

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I thought luxury tax repeaters also lost some transaction flexibility, but I'm not finding that now in http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm


If you go through the FAQ when they explain trade rules there are different rules for teams over the tax and and teams under, the rules apply after the trade so you can't trade your self into the tax by exploiting the non tax payer rules.

Using certain exceptions also hard cap teams, meaning you can't become a tax paying team that year if you use either the Non tax payer MLE or acquire a player through S&T.

So GS is not going to be doing a S&T for anyone unless they can unload a ton of salary. Same for BRK and PHI. HOU is close as they sit 3 mil below as of now.

The next team up right now is IND which helps explain why they wouldn't want Hayward on a 34 mil starting salary. They have about 5 mil to play with so any Hayward to IND S&T needs to be revenue neutral or send out salary because they will be hard capped.


That is surely what I was mixing it up with. I seem to make that mistake most years until it's straightened out, AGAIN. :(
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#42 » by Jammer » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:42 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:1. Did you put Nesmith and Pritchard in at 120%. Because virtually every draftee gets that bounce.
Yes.
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#43 » by Elrod is Back » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:53 pm

Today is Daniel Theis's deadline on his $5 million deal for next season. After this year Theis will be an unrestricted free agent though the Cs will hold his Bird rights.

With Hayward leaving, the Cs could use both the MLE and the bi-annual exceptions to get two or more veterans on the roster, and still be a good $10 million below the luxury tax.

Maybe today, before we pick up Theis's contract officially, we should use some of that cap space to proactively extend Theis. maybe offer a a three year $42 deal at $14 million per annum. Something like that. Or have it descend in value so the tax bite will not be too onerous in t e future. Like $16m, $14.8m, $13.6 M over the next three seasons.

After seeing what guys were paid in the past 24 hours, that makes sense to me. Theis might agree, as he makes $11 million more this season than he would otherwise. So if he stayed at $5 million this season he would have to make $20 million each of the next two years to get the same total three year return. That could happen, but he might prefer to play it conservatively.
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#44 » by Curmudgeon » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:05 pm

I'd be looking to give Theis an extension. Winning player.
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#45 » by Bleeding Green » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:01 pm

Theis will be 30 on his next contract and he's a bit of an injury concern. I think he's perfect for what the Celtics do but the risk:reward isn't right for me to just outright give him an extension right now. What if Rob Williams has a monster season this year and outplays Theis? I wouldn't count on it, but it wouldn't surprise me if the 23 year old big got a little healthy and a little more aware of what he's supposed to do on the court. And I'm as pro-Theis as you will find on this board I think.
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#46 » by captain green » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:16 pm

Ok I'm leaving this here because my question is focused on how much tpe do we have and how long do we have to use it?
Also we have full me and biannual?
We always talk about there’s A-to-Z… really, there’s A-to-G or -E,’” Ainge told Celtics.com of a team’s typical offseason agenda. “This year, there’s definitely A-to-Z.” : danny ainge
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#47 » by Resistance » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:21 am

Boston


Exceptions


* Trade Exception (Vincent Poirier, expiring 11/19/21) — $2,619,207
* Mid-Level Exception — $9,258,000
* Bi-Annual Exception — $3,623,000



If there has been a very recent trade (Kanter) that created a TPE, have patience and that web page should be updated fairly soon. With so much player movement, I wouldn't expect realtime updates.
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Re: CBA minutiae 

Post#48 » by Cuban Pete » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:23 am

Bleeding Green wrote:Yeah the repeater tax is insane in the NBA. You can read about it here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q18

If you expect the Celtics to be competitive for the next 5+ seasons and for Tatum to be maxed, Smart re-signed, one of the young players re-signed to a 20mm+ contract, Hayward traded for future salary considerations, etc, it's not hard to, in a few years be staring down at 100+ million in tax for a given year. The Warriors are paying 64 mil in tax this year and they sucked ass last year, will probably be middling this year. Crazy how fast things change. And they have a trade exception from the Iguodala trade, that if they use fully, their tax bill would be like 135 million.

It's not my money, but if the Celtics aren't competing for titles every single year, I wouldn't expect the owners to be OK with chucking 100 million down the drain so their team can lose in the ECF every year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm no expert.


This is why Jaylen Brown will eventually be dealt.

The Lakers laugh at the repeater tax. Ironically, any increase in the repeater tax only helps the Lakers as it kills most other teams.
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#49 » by Cuban Pete » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:26 am

I wonder which 2 players the Cs will sign to Two Way contracts. Each team is only allowed two.
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#50 » by Jammer » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:22 am

132,627,000 = luxury tax threshold
109,140,000 = salary cap

34,379,100 Kemba Walker
23,883,920 Jaylen Brown
13,446,428 Marcus Smart
9,897,120 Jayson Tatum
9,258,000 Tristan Thompson (assumes they used Full Non-Taxpayer MLE)
5,000,000 Daniel Theis
3,631,200 Romeo Langford
3,623,000 Jeff Teague (possibly Bi-Annual Exception)
3,458,400 Aaron Nesmith
2,498,760 Grant Williams
2,035,800 Peyton Pritchard
2,029,800 Robert Williams III
1,752,950 Semi Ojeleye
1,517,981 Carsen Edwards
1,517,981 Javonte Green (unguaranteed until well into the season)
1,039,080 Guerschon Yabusele (waived)
92,817 Demetrius Jackson (waived)

The above 15 players total is 119,062,337. No where near the lux tax. They actually get their proportional payment from the lux tax paying teams.

Not sure how the qualifying offers to Tremont Williams and Tacko Fall factor in. They could be Two-Way players, again. There isn't a roster spot for a 16th guy unless they trade someone like Edwards or they don't keep Green past his guarantee date, which in a normal season would not guarantee until around January 10, which would be around 35 games into the season (in an 82 game schedule starting around November 1).
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#51 » by Darth Celtic » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:33 pm

Cuban Pete wrote:I wonder which 2 players the Cs will sign to Two Way contracts. Each team is only allowed two.
Waters and fall. That was the plan. Why we drafted a stash in the second and signed nobody right after the draft

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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#52 » by Darth Celtic » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:34 pm

Jammer wrote:132,627,000 = luxury tax threshold
109,140,000 = salary cap

34,379,100 Kemba Walker
23,883,920 Jaylen Brown
13,446,428 Marcus Smart
9,897,120 Jayson Tatum
9,258,000 Tristan Thompson (assumes they used Full Non-Taxpayer MLE)
5,000,000 Daniel Theis
3,631,200 Romeo Langford
3,623,000 Jeff Teague (possibly Bi-Annual Exception)
3,458,400 Aaron Nesmith
2,498,760 Grant Williams
2,035,800 Peyton Pritchard
2,029,800 Robert Williams III
1,752,950 Semi Ojeleye
1,517,981 Carsen Edwards
1,517,981 Javonte Green (unguaranteed until well into the season)
1,039,080 Guerschon Yabusele (waived)
92,817 Demetrius Jackson (waived)

The above 15 players total is 119,062,337. No where near the lux tax. They actually get their proportional payment from the lux tax paying teams.

Not sure how the qualifying offers to Tremont Williams and Tacko Fall factor in. They could be Two-Way players, again. There isn't a roster spot for a 16th guy unless they trade someone like Edwards or they don't keep Green past his guarantee date, which in a normal season would not guarantee until around January 10, which would be around 35 games into the season (in an 82 game schedule starting around November 1).
So if we do get sign and trade and tpe we probably stay under 12 m salary. Let's see that could be

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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#53 » by Darth Celtic » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:45 pm

Patrick beverley
T ross
Patty mills
Jj reddick would be the top end. Close to under tax

Justice winslow
Tj warren
Larry nance jr
Dillon brooks
S dimshitty
R covington
Corey joseph
Norman powell
Lonzo ball
Jeremy lamb
Joe ingles
George hill
Thomas bryant
Maxi klieber
Bjelica
Rose
Pj tucker
Lou williams


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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#54 » by ConstableGeneva » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:00 pm

Lots of options for midseason trade if we get that TPE via the Hayward S&T. Let's hope it pushes through. And even if we don't get to use it before the trade deadline, it could come in handy next offseason.
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#55 » by Darth Celtic » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:10 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:Lots of options for midseason trade if we get that TPE via the Hayward S&T. Let's hope it pushes through. And even if we don't get to use it before the trade deadline, it could come in handy next offseason.
Next offseason I heard it's 27m.

Jrue holiday
Horford
Buddy hield
Vucevuc
Harrison barnes
Brogdon
Lavine
Randle
Capella
Gordon
Turner

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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#56 » by Bleeding Green » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:25 pm

Could the Celtics create a massive TPE with a Hayward S+T? Throw CHA a second round fake pick or even a first is worth it if Boston intends to 100 pct use the TPE. I guess Charlotte can just say no, but I don't know why they would. Then you can go get basically anyone in the NBA with a 30 million dollar TPE. I'm not advocating for it, but a Bogdanovic S+T would be viable with the Kings I believe. Or just save it and use it on a better player at the deadline/next offseason.

That should be 3 separate TPEs with Poirier and Kanter already, do they stack? They can S&T for Giannis next year. Easy.

EDIT: Oh I somehow missed the discussion you already had on this lmao, my bad
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#57 » by Darthlukey » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:09 pm

What are the limitations on trading a matched RFA contract? Specifically Bogdan Bogdanović. How long do the Kings need to wait to trade him if he is resigned? Or does it simply require his permission to be traded? Kings would be mad to not match assuming they can eventually move him for something rather than nothing at all by letting him walk.
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#58 » by Bleeding Green » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:17 pm

Well his contract has a 15% trade kicker so I think that makes things difficult for Sacramento if they just want to match and trade.
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Re: CBA/Roster/Trade Rules Discussion 

Post#59 » by captain green » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:09 am

So this is our team?
Kemba, teague, Pritchard
Smart, Langford, Edwarfs
Brown, Nesmith, green
Tatum, g.will, semi
Thompson, thies, timelord
And waters and fall.
That won't win a ring but we can probably over achieve like we always do. Nesmith has to deliver right away because we already know we ain't getting anything from Edwarfs, semi, or Langford and green. We upgraded at center got even to last year pg back up .We somehow managed to keep semi edwarfs and green and get two more rookies. So we lost four players lost 2 of 4 picks.and still didn't get bench depth. Is what it is the tpe is worth less with no roster spots. Definitely a step back but not by much run it and see. The rest of the east upgraded we sat and watched going to be a tough year. I'll root my heart out but my expectations are not high
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Re: Roster / Salary status 

Post#60 » by BostonCouchGM » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:23 am

HondoFave wrote:Can someone confirm my understanding of the roster / salary status:

Kemba 34.4
Smart 13.4
Tatum 9.9
Brown 23
Theis 5
Kanter 5
Romeo 3.6
VP 2.6
G Wms 2.5
R Wms 2
Edwards 1.5
Nesmith 3.5
Pritchard 2
Ojeleye 1.8

Free agents:
Hayward
Wanamaker
Green
Waters
Fall

If this is accurate I think they may be under the cap?


I use this site. It's easy to switch between teams and is usually up to date

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/yearly/cap/

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