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Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles

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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1921 » by sam_I_am » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:22 pm

jirrit wrote:
chrisab123 wrote:
Writebloc wrote:
You obviously have a bias against Ainge, but the Haywards have done this to themselves and made the negotiations harder on Indiana, Ainge being a good business person is not a fault in this situation it is a positive. The Haywards are all in on Indiana, everyone knows it, there's total transparency. He's not going to go to New York for less money, plus he doesn't want to be a Knick, so in this situation where Hayward wants to play in one specific location, and Indiana wants the services of Hayward Ainge has the leverage.

Ainge and the rest of the league know that Indiana wants to trade Turner away, the coach as well as multiple reporters have mentioned this - so Hayward for Turner is a no brainer part of this deal. Since the contracts don't add up Indy needs to give more. As it has also been highlighted Indy has been looking to dump McDermott since they signed his deal. That shouldn't be on Ainge to accept that bad money and as a fan of the team you should be able to respect that. Especially since we drafted a player that likely fits McDermott's role better than McDermott. The Celtics don't want to be in a position where they have to play Doug minutes and disrupt the development of Nesmith just because Indy wants to foist this contract on Boston to make this deal work for the Haywards who are already living in their palatial estate in Indiana,

Ainge has the leverage and that is why he's asking for either Oladipo or Warren. It isn't bargaining in bad faith, it is straight bargaining. Hayward wants his money, and he wants the Pacers. Danny is getting Turner, but the Celtics don't need to take on bad money to make this thing work for the Haywards.


Anyone who believes Danny does anything wrong has an agenda or bias against him. This has been the line on the site since always. You can't criticize "Trader Danny" ever.

So asking for the Pacers two best players for a guy who can literally walk out the door and sign elsewhere is negotiating in good faith? I think Ainge is good at his job in regards to trades. However, this is a different kind of circumstance where the player is able to legitimately control the situation and sign with the Knicks if these trade negotiations draw out. He's operating like that isn't an option. Sure maybe there's something he knows that we all don't but asking the other team for their two best players is not negotiating in good faith at all.


Only leverage Hayward has is that he could just say F it I just sign with Indy for whatever money they can give me. Maybe Robyn has a very bad influence and if he already got a free PS5 he might really consider it.


The Celtics wanted him to opt in. He wanted a long term deal - rumor has it at 100 mil over 4 years. Celtics seem to prefer letting him walk for nothing than paying that money. So why would they be okay paying 25 million to two guys who are less productive? Stats aren’t everything but paying 25 million for 12/6 (McDermott won’t get any PT) when you don’t want to pay that for 18/6/4 is idiotic. I understand Indiana’s viewpoint but it means jack to me. We don’t want two nickels for a quarter even if we might lose the quarter for nothing.
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1922 » by greenroom31 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:22 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:
The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:Doug McDermotts salary isn't that bad BTW. 7.3 for this year and next. It isn't like he has a 20 million dollar contract.

Expiring after this season. Lamb is the one with two years left.


TJ Warren and Lamb both are signed through next year.

Fun fact: the Pacers have 3 guys named TJ on their roster. That is incredible.
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1923 » by ConstableGeneva » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:22 pm

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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1924 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:22 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Drax wrote:
Thats not how it works mate. You have to send out some salary to get someone in return or have cap space. We dont have either, unless you suggested a S&T of Hayward for Adams or trade Kemba for him. Both wouldnt work because OKC dont want long term money.


Good point. If Adams was traded into cap room, then the price to get him while sending empty salary back would likely have been a lot higher.

Presumably it would have been a three-way, with us sending out Hayward and getting Adams (but not Turner), and Indiana sending OKC enough to make them happy with the deal. Tough to see exactly how that would have worked.


Hayward into capspace, NYKs. TPE to Celtics.

Or same with Hawks.

Steven Adams is somewhere around 3x the player Turner is.

Steven Adams has an 8.6 on/off rating greater than Turner.

Myles Turner has had a negative on off rating for the past 2 years.

And every year since his sophmore year his on off rating has fallen. As the league gets more 3 point trick players from the big spot.


Why would Hayward consent to that?
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1925 » by jirrit » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:22 pm

We also missed out on Denzel Valentine...
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1926 » by jmr07019 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:22 pm

ILC wrote:Instead of asking for Warren if I were Danny I'd 'settle' for a 1st round pick along with Turner and McDermott and then reroute the pick and McDermott to HOU or SAC for Tucker or Bjelica.


Yes please!
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1927 » by MagicBagley18 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:23 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
greenroom31 wrote:
Ben-N1ce wrote:This trade Should have already been done if McDermott and Turner where on the table. If he leaves for nothing when they could have gotten a reasonable return he should be fired which he won't of course.


He drives a hard bargain :dontknow:

Hayward probably wants Ainge to push for a more expensive guy than McDermott (i.e. Dipo or Warren) as well, really for two reasons. First, it might mean the Pacers have to pay him more to match salaries. Second, taking a guy like Warren or Dipo out of the picture would mean that Hayward gets to be more of a focal point on offense. So I actually wouldn't be surprised if Hayward wants Ainge to stand firm.


You think Hayward would rather go to a weaker team than a stronger one?


I think he wants Indiana period
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1928 » by The Corey's » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:23 pm

So we're just gonna ignore the variables that turner has had aboslute **** coaching while theis has by all metrics had one of the best?

Not everything can be seen in the math people.
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1929 » by Writebloc » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:24 pm

jirrit wrote:
chrisab123 wrote:
Writebloc wrote:
You obviously have a bias against Ainge, but the Haywards have done this to themselves and made the negotiations harder on Indiana, Ainge being a good business person is not a fault in this situation it is a positive. The Haywards are all in on Indiana, everyone knows it, there's total transparency. He's not going to go to New York for less money, plus he doesn't want to be a Knick, so in this situation where Hayward wants to play in one specific location, and Indiana wants the services of Hayward Ainge has the leverage.

Ainge and the rest of the league know that Indiana wants to trade Turner away, the coach as well as multiple reporters have mentioned this - so Hayward for Turner is a no brainer part of this deal. Since the contracts don't add up Indy needs to give more. As it has also been highlighted Indy has been looking to dump McDermott since they signed his deal. That shouldn't be on Ainge to accept that bad money and as a fan of the team you should be able to respect that. Especially since we drafted a player that likely fits McDermott's role better than McDermott. The Celtics don't want to be in a position where they have to play Doug minutes and disrupt the development of Nesmith just because Indy wants to foist this contract on Boston to make this deal work for the Haywards who are already living in their palatial estate in Indiana,

Ainge has the leverage and that is why he's asking for either Oladipo or Warren. It isn't bargaining in bad faith, it is straight bargaining. Hayward wants his money, and he wants the Pacers. Danny is getting Turner, but the Celtics don't need to take on bad money to make this thing work for the Haywards.


Anyone who believes Danny does anything wrong has an agenda or bias against him. This has been the line on the site since always. You can't criticize "Trader Danny" ever.

So asking for the Pacers two best players for a guy who can literally walk out the door and sign elsewhere is negotiating in good faith? I think Ainge is good at his job in regards to trades. However, this is a different kind of circumstance where the player is able to legitimately control the situation and sign with the Knicks if these trade negotiations draw out. He's operating like that isn't an option. Sure maybe there's something he knows that we all don't but asking the other team for their two best players is not negotiating in good faith at all.


I've criticized Ainge many times in the past, but one only has to read your comments on this page to see your consistent criticism. I have no problem with criticism when it is fair. In this case after analyzing the details of the situation, the criticism is unwarranted. If I was to poll the commenters on this page do you think that they would believe that you don't have an Ainge bias?
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1930 » by celticfan42487 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:24 pm

Drax wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:A cool $13M is the price you pay to see if Turner can do better. :D


But we would have both, so its an upgrade to our big men rotation.


True but ideally you want to trade a strong starter (Hayward) for a strong starter.

But Turner does fit, and we're in a bind.

There's a reason Ainge feels he can demand more because Hayward >> Turner so... he's just trying to get value.
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1931 » by Drax » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:25 pm

jirrit wrote:We also missed out on Denzel Valentine...


Nooooo how terrible ....
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1932 » by celticfan42487 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:25 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Good point. If Adams was traded into cap room, then the price to get him while sending empty salary back would likely have been a lot higher.

Presumably it would have been a three-way, with us sending out Hayward and getting Adams (but not Turner), and Indiana sending OKC enough to make them happy with the deal. Tough to see exactly how that would have worked.


Hayward into capspace, NYKs. TPE to Celtics.

Or same with Hawks.

Steven Adams is somewhere around 3x the player Turner is.

Steven Adams has an 8.6 on/off rating greater than Turner.

Myles Turner has had a negative on off rating for the past 2 years.

And every year since his sophmore year his on off rating has fallen. As the league gets more 3 point trick players from the big spot.


Why would Hayward consent to that?


Because he just opted out of $32 million and is playing on one leg.

AKA because $$$$$$$$$

If winning was a high priority for him, or if he felt he could gamble on his next contract in 2021 he'd take the money this year and would have opted in.

I guess he can go jerk off about getting a lot of shots again too.
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1933 » by jirrit » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:26 pm

The Corey's wrote:So we're just gonna ignore the variables that turner has had aboslute **** coaching while theis has by all metrics had one of the best?

Not everything can be seen in the math people.


We gotta try to indeed watch the bright side regarding Myles. He’s many myles away from being 30 years old is one them at least. Also he might not shy away anymore in some games if they oblige him to constantly look in Larranaga’s eyes.
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1934 » by greenroom31 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:26 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
greenroom31 wrote:
Ben-N1ce wrote:This trade Should have already been done if McDermott and Turner where on the table. If he leaves for nothing when they could have gotten a reasonable return he should be fired which he won't of course.


He drives a hard bargain :dontknow:

Hayward probably wants Ainge to push for a more expensive guy than McDermott (i.e. Dipo or Warren) as well, really for two reasons. First, it might mean the Pacers have to pay him more to match salaries. Second, taking a guy like Warren or Dipo out of the picture would mean that Hayward gets to be more of a focal point on offense. So I actually wouldn't be surprised if Hayward wants Ainge to stand firm.


You think Hayward would rather go to a weaker team than a stronger one?


You mean like leaving Boston to go to Indy? :lol:

Yeah, I think Hayward wants to be one of the main guys, not option #3 or 4.
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1935 » by FakeScreenName123 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:26 pm

31to6 wrote:I wonder how the Education Reform is going in Indiana.



indiana group economics ftw
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1936 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:26 pm

Writebloc wrote:
jirrit wrote:
chrisab123 wrote:
Anyone who believes Danny does anything wrong has an agenda or bias against him. This has been the line on the site since always. You can't criticize "Trader Danny" ever.

So asking for the Pacers two best players for a guy who can literally walk out the door and sign elsewhere is negotiating in good faith? I think Ainge is good at his job in regards to trades. However, this is a different kind of circumstance where the player is able to legitimately control the situation and sign with the Knicks if these trade negotiations draw out. He's operating like that isn't an option. Sure maybe there's something he knows that we all don't but asking the other team for their two best players is not negotiating in good faith at all.


I've criticized Ainge many times in the past, but one only has to read your comments on this page to see your consistent criticism. I have no problem with criticism when it is fair. In this case after analyzing the details of the situation, the criticism is unwarranted. If I was to poll the commenters on this page do you think that they would believe that you don't have an Ainge bias?


Sabonis says Hi.
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1937 » by jirrit » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:27 pm

Drax wrote:
jirrit wrote:We also missed out on Denzel Valentine...


Nooooo how terrible ....


We need to sign stars.
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1938 » by ConstableGeneva » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:27 pm

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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1939 » by Drax » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:29 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:True but ideally you want to trade a strong starter (Hayward) for a strong starter.

But Turner does fit, and we're in a bind.

There's a reason Ainge feels he can demand more because Hayward >> Turner so... he's just trying to get value.


Personally i want to keep Hayward and promote him to the be 2nd option behind Jayson and depending on the night the 3rd option behind Jaylen. I love our three wing line up, it was the most attractive to look at and best performing line up in my opinion.
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Re: Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles 

Post#1940 » by ConstableGeneva » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:29 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
Writebloc wrote:
jirrit wrote:


I've criticized Ainge many times in the past, but one only has to read your comments on this page to see your consistent criticism. I have no problem with criticism when it is fair. In this case after analyzing the details of the situation, the criticism is unwarranted. If I was to poll the commenters on this page do you think that they would believe that you don't have an Ainge bias?


Sabonis says Hi.

I would take Brogdon and Sabonis first before I take Warren, Oladipo, and Turner.

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