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Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go

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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#101 » by Green89 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:54 pm

Parliament10 wrote:
MrGreenRunsDeep wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:Is this the Pissed off thread?
Cause I'm Pissed Off!!!

I’m with you brother

This Really Sucks!!!

Word is, that Hayward was all ready to take the $100/4yr deal with Indiana.
But Danny haggled over the return. Not agreeing to Turner and McDermott in a S&T.

Now Hayward is gone. And we got zilch.

Danny Screwed it Up!!!


Atrocious if this is how it went down, and a lot of things are pointing to that is how it went down.

I mean, he can't even argue about giving up too much in this scenario. We weren't giving up anything! :banghead:
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#102 » by Parliament10 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:04 am

Player options for that high of an amount are not good things, for the team.
Danny needs to stay away from $34M Player Options.
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#103 » by Turgon » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:10 am

Ainge is getting old, had a couple of health problems and might be getting too comfortable on his role.

Might be time for a 'voluntary' retirement...
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#104 » by Taget » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:10 am

1) Danny is not the best GM in basketball. Right now you'd have say Masai Ujiri who has been hitting it out of the park draft after draft. And has gotten some tremendous value in signings and trades including bringing in Kyle Lowry who was a journeyman few saw as that much more than a decent rotation player. Even then Toronto only won one championship on rather odd circumstances from an odd player who forced a trade while committing that any team he went to was a one year rental.

Toronto despite all that is going to have a tough time repeating. It's tough getting a top "go to" player outside the very top of the draft. It is a cold weather market in a foreign country with a high tax rate (even if a corresponding high standard of living). Even the best GM does not have all the cards they need to get where they want.

Outside of Ujiri you have Buford in San Antonio who without Duncan and now Kawhi is left making moves just good enough to be a treadmill team.

No one else is "acing" the draft much less spotting the Giannis every draft. Sure the Bucks got Giannis. And got (and lost Malcolm Brogdon). Beyond that are any of you jealous of their management? Do you have any confidence that roster can never mind will be fixed?

Danny is more on the level of Pat Riley. Someone who occasionally shows flashes of brilliance. Occasionally makes head scratching moves. And usually has a way of creatively correcting his errors. Riley also has not gotten a ring since Lebron gifted him one.

2) The inmates run the asylum now more than ever. LA Lakers has made dumb move after dumb move. It doesn't matter. Warm weather, media capital. For a better or worse there are factors now that go beyond management. Which is not to say good management does not help. The only rival Red has in the management department is Jerry West. And look what he did when he still had a hand in Golden State. It literally fell to pieces as their players broke. But just as there was only one Red, there is only one Jerry. And given he is 82 not sure even Jerry is Jerry anymore. But Clips are probably still better off having him than no having him.

3) Danny has brought respectability to the Celtics we have not had in a long time. Both Horford and Hayward left. But before them who is the biggest free agent we signed. I mean big at the time they were signed - not over the hill Shaq or Dominique Wilkins. Dana Barros in 1994? No one of note came to Boston. Ever. Players viewed being traded here with dread. While players would initially relent you'd always hear questions whether they wanted to report to Boston. Want to criticize Danny for not getting Kevin Durant? Go ahead. But before him we were never even in contention.

You have to understand we are a team that plays in a cold weather city that is infamous for snowy winters. A state known for high taxes. And a city whether fairly or unfairly has been seen as being hostile towards African-Americans. Boston is also a city where things close earlier than other major metropolitan areas and is not known for an exciting night life. We also have a ravenous sports media that is in league with that of Philadelphia and New York in terms of being impatient and eager to tear down any and all sports figures in our midst. We're not a prime destination. Maybe we should be. Maybe we're misunderstood. But it is what it is.

Danny to his credit has built an organization that players want to play with anyway. Don't be so certain his replacement is going to be able to carry that on given past history.

4) The signing of Horford was a great move. Horford was a good role model and glue player who helped put us on the map and let us be mentioned in the same conversation with other "contenders." His opting out was unexpected and we did the right thing in not signing him. Hayward turned out to be an awful signing. He was constantly injured but good enough that his absences helped put the team on "hold" while has gone. We had to constantly re-adjust to having him and not having him. He has admirably bounced back from injuries but injuries accumulate and tend to compound. He is not worth the risk at the price Charlotte signed him at.

Should we have signed him looking back? No. But given the information we had at the time it was a no-brainer. He was a young player at the cusp of all-stardom. We had no reason to suspect what happened did happen. We took a risk it didn't pan out. Not every risk is going to pan out.

Should we maybe have taken Indiana's offer and not risked Hayward just running off and knee capping us? Maybe. But the same folks condemning Danny for asking too much would be condemning him for asking for too little.

5) The future is still bright because we have Tatum. And Brown ain't bad either. That is enough for us to compete for the top of the east. Those are players we got do to good choices by Danny Ainges. Even as the peanut gallery here was keen on Markelle Fultz and Kris Dunn. They are both imperfect but still improving. We need upgrades to their supporting cast. But the reason why you are upset is because he has gotten us the point where we can see the light at the end of the tunnel and we're eager to get there. Not because we're looking forward to an abyss where we're going to be blown back to zero like Milwaukee faces.
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#105 » by fallguy » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:19 am

Denver is a sneaky great FO.
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#106 » by KGboss » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:22 am

fallguy wrote:Denver is a sneaky great FO.
Not really sneaky theyve always been above average, just never gotten over that hurdle of becoming a legit championship contender

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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#107 » by Writebloc » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:51 am

I take it back, Danny signed a Klutch client.
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#108 » by SichtingLives » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:20 am

Tandem issue, it's at least as much on Brad as anything. Ainge can't realistically deliver the top end firepower for his system to work which is a false qualifier anyway because we run a flawed college system. You can't put as much trust in your 3rd, 4th and 5th options to get you as much as your 1st and 2nd, much less not defer to your 1st and 2nd options, when you run into the elite teams and players in the playoffs who are always going to get theirs. We always look good against good, average and bum teams. Thats not the issue. Putting all that pressure on your non-stars to be perfect at the highest stakes of the season never works. Having an offense where you preach deference over attacking comes back to bite you in the ass in the playoffs. This has been going on for 7 years and its the same thing every time. Good effort, strong showing but when pushed to the mettle our offense $hits a brick because the philosophy doesn't jive with where the league is. Like to see a change there. From Danny, Brad, whoever. It's not gonna happen though.
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#109 » by themoneyteam2 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:30 am

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Even if you want to say he should have done a deal with IND (irrelevant since Hayward took the bag in CHA), Celtics thought signing Thompson for 2 yr/18 was better value than Turner for 3 yr/54 which is hard to disagree with.

Bottom line is losing Hayward for nothing is brutal. No way around that. I just think that's a bit overblown personally since no shot any team was gonna give him the 4 yr/120 he got with the Hornets. That'll look even worse when he's 35.
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#110 » by Jammer » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:49 am

I think Ainge, Mike Zarren and Wyc have done a magnificent job in a covid world. And I did feel that Gordon Hayward was due to continue to have lower body issues. The nerve issues on the left side were not as concerning as someone who sprains his right ankle twice, his right knee, his (I believe) right calf. That type of history suggests something more serious. And even though Hayward was right handed, the fact that he re-broke the same bone in his left hand as in 2016 is also cause for concern. To gain possession of a ball there is a lot of hand smacking in traffic if you are holding the ball. So, that was another risk with Gordon.

132,627,000 = luxury tax threshold
109,140,000 = salary cap

34,379,100 Kemba Walker
23,883,920 Jaylen Brown
13,446,428 Marcus Smart
9,897,120 Jayson Tatum
9,258,000 Tristan Thompson (assumes they used Full Non-Taxpayer MLE)
5,000,000 Daniel Theis
3,631,200 Romeo Langford
3,623,000Jeff Teague (possibly Bi-Annual Exception)
3,458,400 Aaron Nesmith
2,498,760 Grant Williams
2,035,800 Peyton Pritchard
2,029,800 Robert Williams III
1,752,950 Semi Ojeleye
1,517,981 Carsen Edwards
1,517,981 Javonte Green (unguaranteed until well into the season)
1,039,080 Guerschon Yabusele (waived)
92,817 Demetrius Jackson (waived)

The above 15 players total is 119,062,337. No where near the lux tax. They actually get their proportional payment from the lux tax paying teams.

Looks like Tremont Williams and Tacko Fall, who received qualifying offers, will remain 2-way players unless someone gets traded or Green is released before his guarantee date, which in a normal season starting around Nov. 1 would be like Jan. 10.

The rotation looks like (if you disagree, please comment): I think that Nesmith will let Brown get some time in at the SG spot. Third stringers (reserves) normally never play unless a starter or backup is out. I thought Theis and Williams III were better than Thompson. It will be interesting who the starting center is on opening night. Tristan Thompson's 9.2 Million is way more than a backup or reserve normally get. You would almost think that they intend to start Thompson. However, I'd like to see him prove his worth, first. That's why I list him behind Theis and Williams III.

PG: Kemba Walker / Jeff Teague / Payton Pritchard
SG: Marcus Smart / Javonte Green / Romeo Langford / Carsen Edwards
SF: Jaylen Brown / Aaron Nesmith / Romeo Langford
PF: Jayson Tatum / Grant Williams / Semi Ojeleye
C: Daniel Theis / Robert Williams III / Tristan Thompson
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#111 » by Red2 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:52 am

A washed up Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague??? R u kidding me? This is what we have to show for an off season ?? What a disaster!!!
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#112 » by sam_I_am » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:54 am

themoneyteam2 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Even if you want to say he should have done a deal with IND (irrelevant since Hayward took the bag in CHA), Celtics thought signing Thompson for 2 yr/18 was better value than Turner for 3 yr/54 which is hard to disagree with.

Bottom line is losing Hayward for nothing is brutal. No way around that. I just think that's a bit overblown personally since no shot any team was gonna give him the 4 yr/120 he got with the Hornets. That'll look even worse when he's 35.


Paying Hayward maximum money for nothing was brutal. Losing him for nothing it’s pretty uneventful.
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#113 » by Jammer » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:10 am

Red2 wrote:A washed up Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague??? R u kidding me? This is what we have to show for an off season ?? What a disaster!!!


Jeff Teague for the Bi-Annual Exception is brilliant. And they probably didn't have any other options.

If Serge Ibaka would have taken 9.2 Million I am sure that the Celtics would have signed him.

Indiana didn't have anything they wanted to part with that could make it work for the Celtics. What you have to realize is that if Indiana had anything worthwhile, the Celtics might have landed Steven Adams or Danilo Gallinari in a 3-way BUT INDIANA WOULD HAVE HAD TO SEND SOMETHING TO OKC that OKC wanted. Indiana didn't have anything worthwhile that they were coughing up. Not just to the Celtics, but to other teams if the Celtics tried to make it a 3 way. That's how it is, sometimes. Under the circumstances, I think that management did the best that they could. It's all relative. And in a covid environment, I think that the Celtics did well. Glad they got Thompson and Teague. Wish they had traded up last year from 14 to 11 or 12 to jump ahead of Riley and snag Tyler Herro. If I knew the Celtics were targeting Herro (my mom was in the hospital for an extended stay last year, so I really wasn't on the board around draft time last year, even though she is OK now), I would have screamed to offer the 2019 #14 and 2020 Milwaukee AND Celtic picks to move up to #11 or #12. But, they should have known that. They are supposed to be prescient about this sort of stuff, at least someone in the organization should have that level of foresight. Outside of that, there is not much to complain about.
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#114 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:15 am

Jammer wrote:Jeff Teague for $5 Million is brilliant. And they didn't have any other options. They probably used Kanter's 5,005,350 trade exception to sign Teague.


Teague is coming on a S&T?

I guess he has to be if he's getting that much money. (I hadn't seen the figure before.)
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#115 » by SMTBSI » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:16 am

Jammer wrote:
Red2 wrote:A washed up Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague??? R u kidding me? This is what we have to show for an off season ?? What a disaster!!!


Jeff Teague for $5 Million is brilliant. And they didn't have any other options. They probably used Kanter's 5,005,350 trade exception to sign Teague.

Cannot sign a player into a TPE. Got to acquire them via trade.

Teague has be BAE (3.623mil) or vet min. I'm guessing BAE.


Edit: or is the $5mil value actually sourced? That would be weird. S&T? So many moving parts...
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#116 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:28 am

There is no serious basis for not loving what Ainge did pre-Heatles. Over that period, the Celtics were the third-most successful team in the league, and had only one of the Garnett and Perkins injuries happened rather than both, they likely would have beaten the Lakers at least one more time, and at worst been second-best behind only the Spurs.

In the second half of Ainge's tenure to date, the Celtics have lost to Lebron's teams a lot. Still, making the Final Four a few times puts them behind only a few other teams (the ones that have won championships, maybe OKC, and who else?). If Tatum makes it to being a Curry-level player (e.g.a 2x MVP but like Nash on the low end of the multi-MVP winners, although in Tatum's case likely with a more balanced offense/defense mix), the Celtics will likely turn out to have been on track for some more championships. If not, it wil be harder -- but even so, just what is there to be firing-mad at Ainge about?
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#117 » by Jammer » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:28 am

SMTBSI wrote:
Jammer wrote:
Red2 wrote:A washed up Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague??? R u kidding me? This is what we have to show for an off season ?? What a disaster!!!


Jeff Teague for $5 Million is brilliant. And they didn't have any other options. They probably used Kanter's 5,005,350 trade exception to sign Teague.

Cannot sign a player into a TPE. Got to acquire them via trade.

Teague has be BAE (3.623mil) or vet min. I'm guessing BAE.


Edit: or is the $5mil value actually sourced? That would be weird. S&T? So many moving parts...


I can't seem to find it now. Saw it earlier this evening. Would have relayed the source if I could find it. Thought it might have been on the Hoopshype link to twitter feeds from journalists, but to tell the truth, I'm not sure where I saw it. If it's wrong, I'll adjust it. Right now I will continue to search. Since it's not turning up I Will adjust down to Bi-Annual.
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#118 » by Jammer » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:45 am

Well, Serge Ibaka just signed with the Clippers for the same amount as Tristan Thompson. I knew the Celtics would have signed Ibaka if he were interested. Apparently he prefers LA to Boston. Simple as that. I think the Celtic team is better.
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#119 » by Jammer » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:52 am

And instead of going after the front office, it would be more appropriate to go after the coaching staff. I really have a problem with the team's ball protection against presses and double teams. And Tatum dribbles way too high for a guy trying to be a closer. He needs a lower dribble to maintain better control and make it harder to swat the ball away. These are things the coaching staff are supposed to go over weekly. So, there is a diligence issue, or communication issue, and that is not Mr. Ainge's fault. It's the Head Coach and his staff who are responsible for that. And I hold the coaching staff, not Ainge, fully responsible for the Game 2 and Game 4 losses to Miami. Not the players. Because it's obvious that the Celtic players were not EFFECTIVELY coached in turnover minimization.
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Re: Fire Ainge: Thanks Danny, but it's time to go 

Post#120 » by Darth Celtic » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:59 am

So proud we are now officially the raptors board from four years ago.

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