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Why the Pessimism?

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Why the Pessimism? 

Post#1 » by HondoFave » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:43 pm

last year the C's made the ECF (granted they got lucky someone knocked off the Bucks) in large part without Hayward

They have upgraded bigs with TT (Kanter) and point guard with JT (Brad W)

Stands to reason Smart, Tatum and Brown will all be better than last year as they approach their peak years.

Grant and Timelord will be useful. Theis is good.

So if one of Langford or Nesmith is actually good - just one of them - the Celtics should be in the mix.

And Ainge may not be done yet.

So I ask: why so much pessimism?? And what did you want Ainge to do (be realistic). And not looking for a referendum of his tenure but from end of season until now.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#2 » by crimsonandblue » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:55 pm

Just wait until the regular season starts. Anyone who talks bad on the team is shunned
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#3 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:08 pm

There's one flaw in the argument "We did fine when he was hurt". Next year, somebody else important might be hurt, while he remains healthy. In that case, it will be a pity not to have him.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#4 » by Taget » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:11 pm

Our dismantling by Miami was a surprise left hook no one expected and we're still disoriented. Reality is we still have great pieces to contend with. Also that the bubble mini-season was it's own beast separate from a normal regular NBA season. The lockdown through everything off. For example our 4th quarter woes were from players being exhausted which goes right to conditioning. Not surprising when players were locked down in their homes with varied resources available to all of them to stay in shape.

We're going to have a regular season with 82 games to get ready for the playoffs. Every player and every team is going to be on the same footing. Our players will prosper if they put in the work. Tatum and Brown are young and continue to get better and better.

The other part is people were hopeful for some miracle off season move where Danny was going to turn Hayward into KAT or something. And instead just got a ho-hum players from what is seen as a really weak draft among players teams never really got a chance to adequately evaluate.

We're fine. Could be better. Sure. I'm not pessimistic even I continue to be snarky as always.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#5 » by darrendaye » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:16 pm

In short, strategy for path to championship was the 90's Pistons model of 4-5 all-stars team might topple 2 megastar team. When Kyrie left, Horford left, and now Hayward, and only getting Kemba back, it diminishes that formula. Additionally, not getting at least a draft pick compensation for them leaving, it reduces the opportunity to potentially hit on a pick to find that additional star.

While you might be able to argue to puncher's chance idea still with the current team, it's weakened at the top no matter how you slice it.

The direction now is likely to take another swing this year, then try to shed Walker's salary and create salary space next offseason or the following to try to lure another star free agent to sign. Might also mean trading Smart or Brown.

But that's where we are.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#6 » by celticfan42487 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:27 pm

The only thing that will lead to optimism is Ainge's picks coming through.

His signing of Teague is probably a sign that Edwards and the rest of the guard picks from the season prior are ****. And isn't the greatest sign that he thinks Pritchard is even backup PG level worthy.

So let's see what Romeo and Nesmith can do. If both look to be good bench pieces people will be optimistic again.

I also guess theoretically the TimeLord could play half the season this go around and that would boost his stock. Right now he averages about 30 games a year. But I think Ainge also doesn't have much faith in him and hence why he went to get TT to play his minutes.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#7 » by Ernest » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:32 pm

a lot fo the "fire Ainge" posts are just russian trolls and bots. Wake up people.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#8 » by jfs1000d » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:33 pm

People like to see trades and player movement. Philly got d12. Meh. Nets got Jeff Green? Meh. Milwaukee got Jrue. Good, not great.

We are freaking out about Harden to Philly or Brooklyn. Who cares. That will blow up and those players are 2-3 year window.


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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#9 » by jfs1000d » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:34 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:The only thing that will lead to optimism is Ainge's picks coming through.

His signing of Teague is probably a sign that Edwards and the rest of the guard picks from the season prior are ****. And isn't the greatest sign that he thinks Pritchard is even backup PG level worthy.

So let's see what Romeo and Nesmith can do. If both look to be good bench pieces people will be optimistic again.

I also guess theoretically the TimeLord could play half the season this go around and that would boost his stock. Right now he averages about 30 games a year. But I think Ainge also doesn't have much faith in him and hence why he went to get TT to play his minutes.

I disagree with the Teague signing as a sign we don’t believe those guys aren’t good. You need a vet guard on every team.


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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#10 » by brackdan70 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:36 pm

I am pretty optimistic myself. I love Hayward but due to his injuries it just didn’t work out. Great player but his best is behind him. I’m totally fine with him leaving. Folks that think we will magically get a useful piece back are living in some sort of weird myopia. Maybe we do but that’s not likely.

TT and Teague are solid additions. Kemba is getting older but still very good and we have a top tier star and a borderline star In Tatum and Brown that are under 25 years old. We have X factor in Smart and now a good bench and a decent big rotation.

This team even if nothing else happens is nicely balanced and our best team since the first 5 min of game one in 2017-18.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#11 » by celticfan42487 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:51 pm

jfs1000d wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:The only thing that will lead to optimism is Ainge's picks coming through.

His signing of Teague is probably a sign that Edwards and the rest of the guard picks from the season prior are ****. And isn't the greatest sign that he thinks Pritchard is even backup PG level worthy.

So let's see what Romeo and Nesmith can do. If both look to be good bench pieces people will be optimistic again.

I also guess theoretically the TimeLord could play half the season this go around and that would boost his stock. Right now he averages about 30 games a year. But I think Ainge also doesn't have much faith in him and hence why he went to get TT to play his minutes.

I disagree with the Teague signing as a sign we don’t believe those guys aren’t good. You need a vet guard on every team.


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Well in order to be good more than a vet guard you need to actually play.

If a great player sits on the bench and doesn't pay... it's the same thing as people hearing a tree fall in a forest that's thousands of miles away from the closest human.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#12 » by ParticleMan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:00 pm

i am definitely optimistic. i think we're in a good position to make the finals this year. but i agree we're not the favorites. and even if we did we'd probably face the lebron/AD steamroller.

our hopes basically lie in tatum establishing himself as a superstar, jaylen as an allstar, and kemba staying healthy. the rest is mostly noise. not getting myles turner is just not a big deal, i'd frankly rather have tristan at half the price. a lot of contracts in the NBA are negative value deals, and ainge avoids them like the plague; turner is basically neutral value. i'll agree the hayward situation wasn't ainge's finest hour, i wish he could have gotten something, but it wasn't any kind of disaster. and it's not even clear he had any control over it anyways.

everyone loves trades because they project the best possible outcome for the shiny new toy. remember when we signed horford? hayward? boo ya, these guys were going to put us over the top! welp, here we are. meanwhile teams that have continuity are the ones that tend to overachieve, especially ones that are young with upside. but i get it, that's so boring.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#13 » by SMTBSI » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:07 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:His signing of Teague is probably a sign that Edwards and the rest of the guard picks from the season prior are ****. And isn't the greatest sign that he thinks Pritchard is even backup PG level worthy.

While I'm not personally high on any of Pritchard / Edwards / Waters, it really doesn't mean that. Ainge always errs on the side of more PG and C depth.

It just made sense to go get a vet here. If one of the young PGs steps up, you DNP Teague without a second thought. If no one does, then you've got the vet to lean on. You're fine either way.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#14 » by CelticsLV » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:19 pm

As long as Celtics can avoid injuries and Bucks they still have a very good chance of making finals.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#15 » by HondoFave » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:26 pm

thx for the feedback guys - and good to see optimism is on the rise
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#16 » by bisme37 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:49 pm

I think this team is better than last year. People are acting like Gordon actually played. We lost an injured guy and added TT, Teague, and sharpshooting rookies. Plus the Jays will be even better. Go C's.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#17 » by KL78192020 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:56 pm

I think your team is a 1 or 2 seed in the east. Depending on how the Nets stars comeback. I don't see the bucks being all that much better than last year. Miami didn't really get much better either. Biggest issue in Boston is not having any luck in 1st round picks outside of the lottery. Thats where you get your cheap steady bench players
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#18 » by ConstableGeneva » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:56 pm

Tried reading one of our game threads? Don't even have to stay past halftime.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#19 » by celticfan42487 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:18 pm

KL78192020 wrote:I think your team is a 1 or 2 seed in the east. Depending on how the Nets stars comeback. I don't see the bucks being all that much better than last year. Miami didn't really get much better either. Biggest issue in Boston is not having any luck in 1st round picks outside of the lottery. Thats where you get your cheap steady bench players


Depends on our youth.

The entire perception of Miami flipped on a dime when Herro broke out post break last year. Before then everyone would cite them exaclty where they were... 5th seed.

Based on minutes availability, it looks like we're pinning our hopes on Romeo and Nesmith breaking out.

If they do the entire leagues perception of our team changes, and so it does on this board for objective posters.

Right now we're a little bit of a question mark and probably somewhere below a Bucks, 76ers, Nets tier. But even the 76ers could **** it up and be in our tier.

It's a lot like last year except the Nets have Durant and we lost Hayward for nothing.
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Re: Why the Pessimism? 

Post#20 » by BostonCouchGM » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:21 pm

Danny hit it out of the park with the first two draft picks as well. But he could have had the best draft of his career if he kept the #30 pick and used the #47 pick on someone who filled a need and was available to us immediately. We still might get something from the Hayward situation so that remains too early to call, votes keep miraculously coming in on that one. Signing TT and Teague, combined with Nesmith and Pritchard improve our depth considerably. Our lack of a bench may have cost us a trip to the Finals so this is a very good thing.

I considered us a 3 or 4 seed before we started and that's where we remain as we stand today imo. There's been a lot of understandable consternation around losing a player as good as Hayward for seemingly nothing. Seeing rivals making substantial moves while we tread water doesn't inspire confidence. So that's why there's some negativity imo. I might be alone but I don't think there's much more upside to Tatum and Jaylen. I don't think Tatum has the elite athleticism that will ever allow him to be much more than what he is which is a top 8-12 player. Jaylen is too limited with his handle and BBIQ to be more than a 3 and D. So anyone expecting either to be capable of making a major leap above where they were at the end of the season will be disappointed. Both, especially Tatum, have a little more upside as playmakers but NBA players, for the most part are near finished products year 4 in the league. After that, the only thing that changes are numbers because they're given more touches.

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