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FIX the Celtics thread.

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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#141 » by playa-hater » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:47 pm

GWVan wrote:
playa-hater wrote:Going back 4 years, I have never heard anyone claim Boston had a strong chance to win it all. Not our fans, the Media, Vegas etc..


This is interesting. I understand that each time a person remembers something, that memory is rewritten, influenced by that persons biases and prejudices, meaning the more you think about past events the more distorted to your own reality your memories become.

This means that my blind/loyal, optimistic, apologist who is happy with small victories attitude toward the Celtics may have tainted my view of the last four years. We may, in fact, have never been considered a contender!

So I did a quick search (duck duck go, but you can use google if you don't value your privacy) of "celtics favorite to win it all" and these two links from just a few months ago popped up.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2020/07/16/nba-boston-celtics-most-popular-bet-2020-title-banner-18/

https://fansided.com/2020/06/06/nba-playoffs-2020-5-reasons-boston-celtics-can-win-it-all/

I felt better immediately about my flawed memory, at least in this case.


I did say "I have never heard"

So congrats on your memory being intact.

Doesn't change anything about the main point. No finals in 10+ years. 1 Title in 34. and massively wasting many opportunities to get better.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#142 » by playa-hater » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:49 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:They go to to the ECF ever year. Such a bizarre alternate universe some people live in where being one of the final 4 teams isn't 'competing for a title'. 538 projected Celtics to win the title this year as well.


and NO FINALS appearance in over 10 and 1 in 34.. Nice universe ya got.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#143 » by Bleeding Green » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:54 pm

Yeah I quite like it.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#144 » by playa-hater » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:33 pm

[quote="Bleeding Green"]Yeah I quite like it.[/quote

Fair enough.]
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#145 » by playa-hater » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:36 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:Yeah I quite like it.


So long as Boston wins in either universe I will be happy
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#146 » by Fencer reregistered » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:38 am

I'm of the opinion Ainge's strategy has been almost exactly right.

He's been building one of the best home-grown young cores in the league. Then he's been acquiring talent around that core without giving up much in the way of proven-young-player talent in return.

Most recent champions have followed some version of that path, with the top exceptions being the Lakers (Ingram for Davis) and Celtics (Jefferson for Garnett).
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#147 » by Ernest » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:44 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:I'm of the opinion Ainge's strategy has been almost exactly right.

He's been building one of the best home-grown young cores in the league. Then he's been acquiring talent around that core without giving up much in the way of proven-young-player talent in return.

Most recent champions have followed some version of that path, with the top exceptions being the Lakers (Ingram for Davis) and Celtics (Jefferson for Garnett).


Totally agree. Reading through playa-hata's comments it's like he thinks fans opinions of the team changes the outcome. If only you and me would just get pissed off then the team could win another title.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#148 » by GWVan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:15 pm

Ernest wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:I'm of the opinion Ainge's strategy has been almost exactly right.

He's been building one of the best home-grown young cores in the league. Then he's been acquiring talent around that core without giving up much in the way of proven-young-player talent in return.

Most recent champions have followed some version of that path, with the top exceptions being the Lakers (Ingram for Davis) and Celtics (Jefferson for Garnett).


Totally agree. Reading through playa-hata's comments it's like he thinks fans opinions of the team changes the outcome. If only you and me would just get pissed off then the team could win another title.


Pfft, next you will tell me they can't hear me when i yell at them on the TV
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#149 » by playa-hater » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:48 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:I'm of the opinion Ainge's strategy has been almost exactly right.

He's been building one of the best home-grown young cores in the league. Then he's been acquiring talent around that core without giving up much in the way of proven-young-player talent in return.

Most recent champions have followed some version of that path, with the top exceptions being the Lakers (Ingram for Davis) and Celtics (Jefferson for Garnett).


This alone is comical. Unless blowing numerous trade assets and drafting horribly the last 4 seasons is considered almost exactly right.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#150 » by playa-hater » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:59 pm

Ernest wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:I'm of the opinion Ainge's strategy has been almost exactly right.

He's been building one of the best home-grown young cores in the league. Then he's been acquiring talent around that core without giving up much in the way of proven-young-player talent in return.

Most recent champions have followed some version of that path, with the top exceptions being the Lakers (Ingram for Davis) and Celtics (Jefferson for Garnett).


Totally agree. Reading through playa-hata's comments it's like he thinks fans opinions of the team changes the outcome. If only you and me would just get pissed off then the team could win another title.


Not surprised I guess that someone who doesn't "have time for all this" directly, continues to have time to send subtle jabs all while circling the wagon with his posse of Apologists.

Is it really so hard to recognize the possibility that maybe, just maybe, Stevens and/or Ainge are not anywhere near as good as prescribed by the disciples of his followers. Does the thought of Ainge/Stevens possibly blowing huge opportunities to get better even enter your thoughts?

Blind sheep who always believe all is well.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#151 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:52 am

playa-hater wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:I'm of the opinion Ainge's strategy has been almost exactly right.

He's been building one of the best home-grown young cores in the league. Then he's been acquiring talent around that core without giving up much in the way of proven-young-player talent in return.

Most recent champions have followed some version of that path, with the top exceptions being the Lakers (Ingram for Davis) and Celtics (Jefferson for Garnett).


This alone is comical. Unless blowing numerous trade assets and drafting horribly the last 4 seasons is considered almost exactly right.


I think you're referring to the time span over which Ainge drafted Pritchard and both Williamses, all with late-ish first round picks.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#152 » by playa-hater » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:44 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:I'm of the opinion Ainge's strategy has been almost exactly right.

He's been building one of the best home-grown young cores in the league. Then he's been acquiring talent around that core without giving up much in the way of proven-young-player talent in return.

Most recent champions have followed some version of that path, with the top exceptions being the Lakers (Ingram for Davis) and Celtics (Jefferson for Garnett).


This alone is comical. Unless blowing numerous trade assets and drafting horribly the last 4 seasons is considered almost exactly right.


I think you're referring to the time span over which Ainge drafted Pritchard and both Williamses, all with late-ish first round picks.


Like RW, more than our own coach. Think PP can be a solid championship level PG. GW is just not good IMO even more so when many where hoping to draft Brandon Clarke *Who Boston passed on twice.

The rest of the drafts, in which 15 players were selected with Tatum, only one (Tatum) has done anything remotely significant in the last 2 seasons. Many are not even in the NBA already.

If I extend this to Stevens' hire, 24 players were drafted. 2 in the top 3 (Brown, Tatum) which now, if including PP, RW as solid contributors, leaves us with 4 out of 24 picks successful. I will even hedge this to 6 and hope that Romeo Langford and Nesmith will one day work out. (Though I Don't see any signs of RL being a good shooter, but do believe in Nesmith)

Boston also had the 8th pick in 2018, traded for Kyrie which of course ended in disaster. (though in hindsight most believed in that deal).

But the conclusion is the same. Way too many missed opportunities. At the least, some picks could/should have been used to bolster the bench and overall talent level of this team.

There was a great opportunity to take it up a level or 2. And Boston missed out. Badly IMHO.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#153 » by SichtingLives » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:12 am

Things change very quickly in this league and nearly every fan of the NBA has prisoner of the moment-itis. I don't really gaf about the past at this point I had a theory going into this season that our future hinged on Tatum and Brown taking leaps into Top 20 territory and that's where our ceiling goes. I'm not sure Tatum has made another leap (yet) (not like we play games anymore)(but he's already right there) but Brown certainly looks like he has and that changes things.

We need to stop playing mash unit with our bigs. 4 and 5. Get someone with real fn size who's a legit NBA center. Just for NBA starting C minutes which is like 25. Was this supposed to be Tristan Thompson? ok but I don't trust this guy he looks washed up and not sure how good he was anyway. I feel like Ainge just doesn't want to pay the price for this type of player and we always end up with guys who are close, and a bargain.....but too fn small. This is such a crucial piece when you get into the playoffs. Theis has the skills but he's too small to fill that role in todays league against todays stars/whistle in a big series.

Get a 3/d vet wing with decent size. A pro who can come off the bench and be consistent. Love PP think he will contribute this year, Grant too, Rob too, but we're stretching our rotation where we're going to depend on these young guys too much and if you push them all back into the right roles the whole thing will click.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#154 » by playa-hater » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:29 am

SichtingLives wrote:Things change very quickly in this league and nearly every fan of the NBA has prisoner of the moment-itis. I don't really gaf about the past at this point I had a theory going into this season that our future hinged on Tatum and Brown taking leaps into Top 20 territory and that's where our ceiling goes. I'm not sure Tatum has made another leap (yet) (not like we play games anymore)(but he's already right there) but Brown certainly looks like he has and that changes things.

We need to stop playing mash unit with our bigs. 4 and 5. Get someone with real fn size who's a legit NBA center. Just for NBA starting C minutes which is like 25. Was this supposed to be Tristan Thompson? ok but I don't trust this guy he looks washed up and not sure how good he was anyway. I feel like Ainge just doesn't want to pay the price for this type of player and we always end up with guys who are close, and a bargain.....but too fn small. This is such a crucial piece when you get into the playoffs. Theis has the skills but he's too small to fill that role in todays league against todays stars/whistle in a big series.

Get a 3/d vet wing with decent size. A pro who can come off the bench and be consistent. Love PP think he will contribute this year, Grant too, Rob too, but we're stretching our rotation where we're going to depend on these young guys too much and if you push them all back into the right roles the whole thing will click.


I think RW can be what Boston needs at center. But for the sake of argument, what Center is even possible out there for a trade??

I do like Nikola Vucevic from Orlando a lot on offense. Defensively?? I am not sure.

But he would cost all of our TPE. And I would rather use that on a true BIG Wing' forward hybrid like A Gordon first.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#155 » by playa-hater » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:33 am

I also like Derozan, but do worry he may be too ball dominant with the Js and Kemba to mesh well.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#156 » by SichtingLives » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:36 am

playa-hater wrote:
SichtingLives wrote:Things change very quickly in this league and nearly every fan of the NBA has prisoner of the moment-itis. I don't really gaf about the past at this point I had a theory going into this season that our future hinged on Tatum and Brown taking leaps into Top 20 territory and that's where our ceiling goes. I'm not sure Tatum has made another leap (yet) (not like we play games anymore)(but he's already right there) but Brown certainly looks like he has and that changes things.

We need to stop playing mash unit with our bigs. 4 and 5. Get someone with real fn size who's a legit NBA center. Just for NBA starting C minutes which is like 25. Was this supposed to be Tristan Thompson? ok but I don't trust this guy he looks washed up and not sure how good he was anyway. I feel like Ainge just doesn't want to pay the price for this type of player and we always end up with guys who are close, and a bargain.....but too fn small. This is such a crucial piece when you get into the playoffs. Theis has the skills but he's too small to fill that role in todays league against todays stars/whistle in a big series.

Get a 3/d vet wing with decent size. A pro who can come off the bench and be consistent. Love PP think he will contribute this year, Grant too, Rob too, but we're stretching our rotation where we're going to depend on these young guys too much and if you push them all back into the right roles the whole thing will click.


I think RW can be what Boston needs at center. But for the sake of argument, what Center is even possible out there for a trade??

I do like Nikola Vucevic from Orlando a lot on offense. Defensively?? I am not sure.

But he would cost all of our TPE. And I would rather use that on a true BIG Wing' forward hybrid like A Gordon first.


I honestly have no idea. I love kids like Jarrett Allen but it feels like a wet dream that we ever get a C like that. RW is another guy, he has the skills that he could get there...but he is smaller than they make out and i feel like he's destined to be injury prone. I like him or Theis as a BU but not the main guy. I feel like it's hard to tell visually but we're always running a guy at C whose closer to 6'7" than 7" and we eventually get smashed on by the huge wings that dominate the league
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#157 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:50 am

playa-hater wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
This alone is comical. Unless blowing numerous trade assets and drafting horribly the last 4 seasons is considered almost exactly right.


I think you're referring to the time span over which Ainge drafted Pritchard and both Williamses, all with late-ish first round picks.


Like RW, more than our own coach. Think PP can be a solid championship level PG. GW is just not good IMO even more so when many where hoping to draft Brandon Clarke *Who Boston passed on twice.

The rest of the drafts, in which 15 players were selected with Tatum, only one (Tatum) has done anything remotely significant in the last 2 seasons. Many are not even in the NBA already.

If I extend this to Stevens' hire, 24 players were drafted. 2 in the top 3 (Brown, Tatum) which now, if including PP, RW as solid contributors, leaves us with 4 out of 24 picks successful. I will even hedge this to 6 and hope that Romeo Langford and Nesmith will one day work out. (Though I Don't see any signs of RL being a good shooter, but do believe in Nesmith)

Boston also had the 8th pick in 2018, traded for Kyrie which of course ended in disaster. (though in hindsight most believed in that deal).

But the conclusion is the same. Way too many missed opportunities. At the least, some picks could/should have been used to bolster the bench and overall talent level of this team.

There was a great opportunity to take it up a level or 2. And Boston missed out. Badly IMHO.


If you're going to just wave Smart away as an allegedly useless pick, I'm not going to even try to take your posts seriously.

Even Olynyk was a successful pick, except that most of us feel Ainge did something wrong in passing on Giannis, either not being enough of a risk taker (my secondary interpretation), or not investing heavily enough soon enough in international scouting (currently my main view of the failure).

For that matter, how many picks after Semi were better than Semi? 2, perhaps? (Thomas Bryant/Dillon Brooks)
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#158 » by playa-hater » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:01 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
I think you're referring to the time span over which Ainge drafted Pritchard and both Williamses, all with late-ish first round picks.


Like RW, more than our own coach. Think PP can be a solid championship level PG. GW is just not good IMO even more so when many where hoping to draft Brandon Clarke *Who Boston passed on twice.

The rest of the drafts, in which 15 players were selected with Tatum, only one (Tatum) has done anything remotely significant in the last 2 seasons. Many are not even in the NBA already.

If I extend this to Stevens' hire, 24 players were drafted. 2 in the top 3 (Brown, Tatum) which now, if including PP, RW as solid contributors, leaves us with 4 out of 24 picks successful. I will even hedge this to 6 and hope that Romeo Langford and Nesmith will one day work out. (Though I Don't see any signs of RL being a good shooter, but do believe in Nesmith)

Boston also had the 8th pick in 2018, traded for Kyrie which of course ended in disaster. (though in hindsight most believed in that deal).

But the conclusion is the same. Way too many missed opportunities. At the least, some picks could/should have been used to bolster the bench and overall talent level of this team.

There was a great opportunity to take it up a level or 2. And Boston missed out. Badly IMHO.


If you're going to just wave Smart away as an allegedly useless pick, I'm not going to even try to take your posts seriously.

Even Olynyk was a successful pick, except that most of us feel Ainge did something wrong in passing on Giannis, either not being enough of a risk taker (my secondary interpretation), or not investing heavily enough soon enough in international scouting (currently my main view of the failure).


I referenced to the year after Smart, since I wasn't sure what month Stevens was hired. But with a good Smart pick (at 6) there was also a James Young at 17. A draft in which some really good-great players were drafted after 17.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#159 » by playa-hater » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:06 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
I think you're referring to the time span over which Ainge drafted Pritchard and both Williamses, all with late-ish first round picks.


Like RW, more than our own coach. Think PP can be a solid championship level PG. GW is just not good IMO even more so when many where hoping to draft Brandon Clarke *Who Boston passed on twice.

The rest of the drafts, in which 15 players were selected with Tatum, only one (Tatum) has done anything remotely significant in the last 2 seasons. Many are not even in the NBA already.

If I extend this to Stevens' hire, 24 players were drafted. 2 in the top 3 (Brown, Tatum) which now, if including PP, RW as solid contributors, leaves us with 4 out of 24 picks successful. I will even hedge this to 6 and hope that Romeo Langford and Nesmith will one day work out. (Though I Don't see any signs of RL being a good shooter, but do believe in Nesmith)

Boston also had the 8th pick in 2018, traded for Kyrie which of course ended in disaster. (though in hindsight most believed in that deal).

But the conclusion is the same. Way too many missed opportunities. At the least, some picks could/should have been used to bolster the bench and overall talent level of this team.

There was a great opportunity to take it up a level or 2. And Boston missed out. Badly IMHO.


If you're going to just wave Smart away as an allegedly useless pick, I'm not going to even try to take your posts seriously.

Even Olynyk was a successful pick, except that most of us feel Ainge did something wrong in passing on Giannis, either not being enough of a risk taker (my secondary interpretation), or not investing heavily enough soon enough in international scouting (currently my main view of the failure).

For that matter, how many picks after Semi were better than Semi? 2, perhaps? (Thomas Bryant/Dillon Brooks)


didn't see this part, but after Semi is just a small part. As a whole in the 4, 6 or 7 years (however far back you would like to go) the misses are many. Far too many IMO again.

OH and while Semi is serviceable, he is not a playoff rotation player I think Boston can win Big with.
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Re: FIX the Celtics thread. 

Post#160 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:15 am

playa-hater wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
Like RW, more than our own coach. Think PP can be a solid championship level PG. GW is just not good IMO even more so when many where hoping to draft Brandon Clarke *Who Boston passed on twice.

The rest of the drafts, in which 15 players were selected with Tatum, only one (Tatum) has done anything remotely significant in the last 2 seasons. Many are not even in the NBA already.

If I extend this to Stevens' hire, 24 players were drafted. 2 in the top 3 (Brown, Tatum) which now, if including PP, RW as solid contributors, leaves us with 4 out of 24 picks successful. I will even hedge this to 6 and hope that Romeo Langford and Nesmith will one day work out. (Though I Don't see any signs of RL being a good shooter, but do believe in Nesmith)

Boston also had the 8th pick in 2018, traded for Kyrie which of course ended in disaster. (though in hindsight most believed in that deal).

But the conclusion is the same. Way too many missed opportunities. At the least, some picks could/should have been used to bolster the bench and overall talent level of this team.

There was a great opportunity to take it up a level or 2. And Boston missed out. Badly IMHO.


If you're going to just wave Smart away as an allegedly useless pick, I'm not going to even try to take your posts seriously.

Even Olynyk was a successful pick, except that most of us feel Ainge did something wrong in passing on Giannis, either not being enough of a risk taker (my secondary interpretation), or not investing heavily enough soon enough in international scouting (currently my main view of the failure).


I referenced to the year after Smart, since I wasn't sure what month Stevens was hired. But with a good Smart pick (at 6) there was also a James Young at 17. A draft in which some really good-great players were drafted after 17.


Stevens had coached the Celtics for a full season before Smart was drafted.

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