Decision Time With Kemba

[Hal14]

We've now lost 5 in a row when Kemba sits on the 2nd night of a back to back. He's our 3rd best scorer - we need him in there playing to have a chance. Not only that, but think about the issues this team has had with lack of ball movement and lack of consistency. I'd argue that one reason for both of those is the inconsistency of Kemba being in the lineup.

Here's Kema's season so far:
-Sat out first 11 games
-Played in 4 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 3 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 4 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 2 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 3 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 7 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 2 games then sat out the next game

Notice how inconsistent that is? The other guys on the team, they need to play one way when Kemba is in the lineup and they play a different way when he sits. Different rotation when he plays compared to when he sits, too.

To be a consistent team, you need the lineup and the rotation to be consistent. You can't have consistency when your 3rd best scorer plays 4 games then sits out the next one, then he plays 3 games and then sits out the next one, plays 2 games then sits out the next one, that's a recipe for disaster.

We've got 30 games left in the season. 7 of those 30 games are 2nd night of back to backs. Which means Kemba will sit 7 more games over the course of the rest of the season (those 7 games are vs Grizzlies, OKC, Nets, Hornets, Cavs and 2 games vs Knicks). This means he will only play in 23/30 games rest of the way, which is only 76% of our games. You need your 3rd best scorer playing over 90% of your games. 76% will not cut it.

I think at the point the team needs to make a decision here. Here's what you do. You talk to the team doctors about Kemba's knee and you talk to Kemba about how the knee feels (I'm sure these discussions have already been going on). You figure out whether the guy can handle playing back to backs or not. From there you're left with 3 possible scenarios:

1) Kemba is cleared to play back to backs. So you go for it. You play him every game and you get the consistency that you need, you get the shooting, you get the ball movement plus we're obviously deeper when he plays. What else do you do? You go for it - you make a trade at the deadline to use the TPE to improve this team and make them as competitive as possible so this team can go as far in the playoffs as possible. In this scenario you also might get a little more aggressive with increasing Robert Williams minutes.

2) Kemba is not cleared to play back to backs. You don't make a trade at the deadline - instead you keep your draft picks, you keep your young guys. Just use the TPE over the offseason. Keep being more conservative with limiting Robert Williams' minutes, keep him healthy so that he is ready to go day 1 of next season playing big mins as the starting center. Plus you're still being conservative with Kemba in not playing him back to backs so he is fresh and ready to go as your day 1 starting PG next season, when he'll ideally be playing every game (plus next year won't be a crazy COVID season so there will be far fewer back to backs anyways).

3) Kemba is not cleared to play back to backs. So you trade him. That's right, you trade Kemba Walker now, you have until the March 25 deadline. Get rid of him, he's damaged goods. 30 years old, he'll be 31 in less than 2 months. Can't play back to back nights, can't play defense, inconsistent shooter, plus he's one of the most overpaid players in the league, making $34 mil a year, has 2 years left on his contract after this year and the amount we'd have to pay him actually increases each year after this one, lol. You find someone, anyone who's willing to take Kemba in a trade. 1 rumor I've heard is send him to Orlando (along with a young player + 1st round pick) and we get both Gordon + Fournier, another rumor is trade him to New Orleans for Lonzo Ball, another rumor I've hard is trade him to Dallas for Porzingis, the other rumor I've heard is trade him to OKC for Horford + George Hill. You try to find a good offer for Kemba and you trade him, now! That way we get rid of his overpriced contract, we get rid of a guy who can't play defense and we get rid of a guy who can't play the 2nd night of back to backs.


P.S. let me know if this should go in the Trades & Transactions forum instead and I can move it..

[aussie_pride]

We've now lost 5 in a row when Kemba sits on the 2nd night of a back to back. He's our 3rd best scorer - we need him in there playing to have a chance. Not only that, but think about the issues this team has had with lack of ball movement and lack of consistency. I'd argue that one reason for both of those is the inconsistency of Kemba being in the lineup.

Here's Kema's season so far:
-Sat out first 11 games
-Played in 4 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 3 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 4 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 2 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 3 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 7 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 2 games then sat out the next game

Notice how inconsistent that is? The other guys on the team, they need to play one way when Kemba is in the lineup and they play a different way when he sits. Different rotation when he plays compared to when he sits, too.

To be a consistent team, you need the lineup and the rotation to be consistent. You can't have consistency when your 3rd best scorer plays 4 games then sits out the next one, then he plays 3 games and then sits out the next one, plays 2 games then sits out the next one, that's a recipe for disaster.

We've got 30 games left in the season. 7 of those 30 games are 2nd night of back to backs. Which means Kemba will sit 7 more games over the course of the rest of the season (those 7 games are vs Grizzlies, OKC, Nets, Hornets, Cavs and 2 games vs Knicks). This means he will only play in 23/30 games rest of the way, which is only 76% of our games. You need your 3rd best scorer playing over 90% of your games. 76% will not cut it.

I think at the point the team needs to make a decision here. Here's what you do. You talk to the team doctors about Kemba's knee and you talk to Kemba about how the knee feels (I'm sure these discussions have already been going on). You figure out whether the guy can handle playing back to backs or not. From there you're left with 3 possible scenarios:

1) Kemba is cleared to play back to backs. So you go for it. You play him every game and you get the consistency that you need, you get the shooting, you get the ball movement plus we're obviously deeper when he plays. What else do you do? You go for it - you make a trade at the deadline to use the TPE to improve this team and make them as competitive as possible so this team can go as far in the playoffs as possible. In this scenario you also might get a little more aggressive with increasing Robert Williams minutes.

2) Kemba is not cleared to play back to backs. You don't make a trade at the deadline - instead you keep your draft picks, you keep your young guys. Just use the TPE over the offseason. Keep being more conservative with limiting Robert Williams' minutes, keep him healthy so that he is ready to go day 1 of next season playing big mins as the starting center. Plus you're still being conservative with Kemba in not playing him back to backs so he is fresh and ready to go as your day 1 starting PG next season, when he'll ideally be playing every game (plus next year won't be a crazy COVID season so there will be far fewer back to backs anyways).

3) Kemba is not cleared to play back to backs. So you trade him. That's right, you trade Kemba Walker now, you have until the March 25 deadline. Get rid of him, he's damaged goods. 30 years old, he'll be 31 in less than 2 months. Can't play back to back nights, can't play defense, inconsistent shooter, plus he's one of the most overpaid players in the league, making $34 mil a year, has 2 years left on his contract after this year and the amount we'd have to pay him actually increases each year after this one, lol. You find someone, anyone who's willing to take Kemba in a trade. 1 rumor I've heard is send him to Orlando (along with a young player + 1st round pick) and we get both Gordon + Fournier, another rumor is trade him to New Orleans for Lonzo Ball, another rumor I've hard is trade him to Dallas for Porzingis, the other rumor I've heard is trade him to OKC for Horford + George Hill. You try to find a good offer for Kemba and you trade him, now! That way we get rid of his overpriced contract, we get rid of a guy who can't play defense and we get rid of a guy who can't play the 2nd night of back to backs.


P.S. let me know if this should go in the Trades & Transactions forum instead and I can move it..

I can sense a lot of frustration in your post and I do empathise because I want nothing more than to see Kemba Walker back on the floor. However, I think it is important to acknowledge the fact that he is being guided by medical experts who are making informed decisions. Remember, knee injuries are pretty serious, especially for a basketball, so it is important that they are managed correctly. With all that being said, it is important that we do not lose sight of the fact that Kemba Walker is a talented player and one of the best point guards in the league, who is finding his way back after a long-term injury. History has shown us, with Gordon Hayward, that players have the ability to bounce back; they just need time to find their feet again.

The other issue at hand is the ethics of trading a big name free agent who decided to come to Boston and is currently feeling his way back after injury. The franchise does not exactly have the best reputation for treating big name players with respect when they elect to come to the Celtics. The predicaments of Gordon Hayward, Kyrie Irving and Isaiah Thomas come to mind. In particular, the treatment of Isaiah Thomas was the reason why one of the reasons why Anthony Davis chose not come to the Celtics. Therefore, politics does play an important part in this.

I know that Boston is one of those teams that demands instant success but I'm a massive believer in player development, continuity and ultimately team cohesion. There seems to be this trend in the NBA of wanting to "gut" a roster and "blow" things up as soon as you do not make the playoffs or fail to get out of the conference finals. For me that is always overkill and I think the LA Clippers with Blake Griffin, Chris Paul and Deandre Jordan is a great example; they did not need to overhaul things and could have kept all three pieces and still been successful. The roster we have is still young with plenty of talent. I'm not saying its perfect but I think we have the cornerstones for success if we stick with what we have.

[Hal14]

We've now lost 5 in a row when Kemba sits on the 2nd night of a back to back. He's our 3rd best scorer - we need him in there playing to have a chance. Not only that, but think about the issues this team has had with lack of ball movement and lack of consistency. I'd argue that one reason for both of those is the inconsistency of Kemba being in the lineup.

Here's Kema's season so far:
-Sat out first 11 games
-Played in 4 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 3 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 4 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 2 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 3 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 7 games then sat out the next game
-Played in 2 games then sat out the next game

Notice how inconsistent that is? The other guys on the team, they need to play one way when Kemba is in the lineup and they play a different way when he sits. Different rotation when he plays compared to when he sits, too.

To be a consistent team, you need the lineup and the rotation to be consistent. You can't have consistency when your 3rd best scorer plays 4 games then sits out the next one, then he plays 3 games and then sits out the next one, plays 2 games then sits out the next one, that's a recipe for disaster.

We've got 30 games left in the season. 7 of those 30 games are 2nd night of back to backs. Which means Kemba will sit 7 more games over the course of the rest of the season (those 7 games are vs Grizzlies, OKC, Nets, Hornets, Cavs and 2 games vs Knicks). This means he will only play in 23/30 games rest of the way, which is only 76% of our games. You need your 3rd best scorer playing over 90% of your games. 76% will not cut it.

I think at the point the team needs to make a decision here. Here's what you do. You talk to the team doctors about Kemba's knee and you talk to Kemba about how the knee feels (I'm sure these discussions have already been going on). You figure out whether the guy can handle playing back to backs or not. From there you're left with 3 possible scenarios:

1) Kemba is cleared to play back to backs. So you go for it. You play him every game and you get the consistency that you need, you get the shooting, you get the ball movement plus we're obviously deeper when he plays. What else do you do? You go for it - you make a trade at the deadline to use the TPE to improve this team and make them as competitive as possible so this team can go as far in the playoffs as possible. In this scenario you also might get a little more aggressive with increasing Robert Williams minutes.

2) Kemba is not cleared to play back to backs. You don't make a trade at the deadline - instead you keep your draft picks, you keep your young guys. Just use the TPE over the offseason. Keep being more conservative with limiting Robert Williams' minutes, keep him healthy so that he is ready to go day 1 of next season playing big mins as the starting center. Plus you're still being conservative with Kemba in not playing him back to backs so he is fresh and ready to go as your day 1 starting PG next season, when he'll ideally be playing every game (plus next year won't be a crazy COVID season so there will be far fewer back to backs anyways).

3) Kemba is not cleared to play back to backs. So you trade him. That's right, you trade Kemba Walker now, you have until the March 25 deadline. Get rid of him, he's damaged goods. 30 years old, he'll be 31 in less than 2 months. Can't play back to back nights, can't play defense, inconsistent shooter, plus he's one of the most overpaid players in the league, making $34 mil a year, has 2 years left on his contract after this year and the amount we'd have to pay him actually increases each year after this one, lol. You find someone, anyone who's willing to take Kemba in a trade. 1 rumor I've heard is send him to Orlando (along with a young player + 1st round pick) and we get both Gordon + Fournier, another rumor is trade him to New Orleans for Lonzo Ball, another rumor I've hard is trade him to Dallas for Porzingis, the other rumor I've heard is trade him to OKC for Horford + George Hill. You try to find a good offer for Kemba and you trade him, now! That way we get rid of his overpriced contract, we get rid of a guy who can't play defense and we get rid of a guy who can't play the 2nd night of back to backs.


P.S. let me know if this should go in the Trades & Transactions forum instead and I can move it..

I can sense a lot of frustration in your post and I do empathise because I want nothing more than to see Kemba Walker back on the floor. However, I think it is important to acknowledge the fact that he is being guided by medical experts who are making informed decisions. Remember, knee injuries are pretty serious, especially for a basketball, so it is important that they are managed correctly. With all that being said, it is important that we do not lose sight of the fact that Kemba Walker is a talented player and one of the best point guards in the league, who is finding his way back after a long-term injury. History has shown us, with Gordon Hayward, that players have the ability to bounce back; they just need time to find their feet again.

The other issue at hand is the ethics of trading a big name free agent who decided to come to Boston and is currently feeling his way back after injury. The franchise does not exactly have the best reputation for treating big name players with respect when they elect to come to the Celtics. The predicaments of Gordon Hayward, Kyrie Irving and Isaiah Thomas come to mind. In particular, the treatment of Isaiah Thomas was the reason why one of the reasons why Anthony Davis chose not come to the Celtics. Therefore, politics does play an important part in this.

I know that Boston is one of those teams that demands instant success but I'm a massive believer in player development, continuity and ultimately team cohesion. There seems to be this trend in the NBA of wanting to "gut" a roster and "blow" things up as soon as you do not make the playoffs or fail to get out of the conference finals. For me that is always overkill and I think the LA Clippers with Blake Griffin, Chris Paul and Deandre Jordan is a great example; they did not need to overhaul things and could have kept all three pieces and still been successful. The roster we have is still young with plenty of talent. I'm not saying its perfect but I think we have the cornerstones for success if we stick with what we have.

The voice of reason here..I get where you're coming from..

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

PGs the size of Kemba - when their athleticism disappears, they are useless. How often has Kemba used his signature move, the step back, this season? I have seen it only a handful of times. Why doesn’t he do it anymore? Because of how bad his knee is. Gotta deal him now.

And to your point about the Clippers - that team needed to be blown up because CP3 and Griffin hated each other. Listen to All the Smoke where Doc Rivers is the guest. He and Matt Barnes (who was on that Clippers team) talk about how those 2 guys were so passive aggressive towards each other and would do sneaky **** in the locker room to undermine the other.

[jfs1000d]

I think it is precautions. Not necessity. The schedule is so brutal because of Covid. If he is around next year, I think we will see him okay more back then backs. Also, our depth sucks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[celticfan42487]

Nothing to panic about, we're not expected to contend for a ring.

You sell him now you're selling him low. Might as well see how he does rest of the season and start of next year with a real off season. Only start to think about moving him at the next trade deadline.

Worst comes to worse he has the same value then as he does now, but there's a chance it's a lot higher next year than it is this year if he figures things out.

And there's also a chance if he gets back to form you won't want to sell him anyways. It isn't like we have an abundance of all-star level PGs laying around here. Or LeBron level wings that can run an entire offense on their own.

[31to6]

at last a Kemba Walker thread

[Topbins]

Trade him. He won't be the same player

[Dangit]

I'm ready to move completely on from the volume shooter point guard all together...
Kemba is a disaster on the floor and if he's not scoring he literally is killing us ...
IF we are going forward with Tatum and Brown they need a distributor like Paul or Rondo (easier said then done ) ... hopefully some team takes a chance on Walker and we get lucky.

[playa-hater]

at last a Kemba Walker thread

LOL. But does it really exist. or is it in our imagination

sorry can't help it

[31to6]

at last a Kemba Walker thread

LOL. But does it really exist. or is it in our imagination

sorry can't help it

glad you're getting a kick out of my existential crisis.
the non-existence of Romeo Langford has mind- **** me.
I really thought we'd drafted a lanky wing with some promise but it turns out it was just like the Polar Express or some ****.
maybe there is no "Kemba Walker"

Spoiler:

on the 2nd night of B2Bs amirite?

[LoquaciousLarry]

Give me Otto Porters expiring for him and a future first and cut your losses on Kemba.

[Hal14]

I'm ready to move completely on from the volume shooter point guard all together...
Kemba is a disaster on the floor and if he's not scoring he literally is killing us ...
IF we are going forward with Tatum and Brown they need a distributor like Paul or Rondo (easier said then done ) ... hopefully some team takes a chance on Walker and we get lucky.

This is why I want the Celtics to trade for Lonzo Ball.

a) Rapidly emerging as an ideal pass-first point guard in the modern NBA - sees the whole floor, keeps his head up, finds the open man, looks for his teammates before looking for his own shot while at the same time being a deadly spot up shooter and also deadly when dishing to open teammate off the pick n roll

b) Age 23 so fits the timeline perfectly with Tatum (23) and Brown (24)

[aussie_pride]

I'm ready to move completely on from the volume shooter point guard all together...
Kemba is a disaster on the floor and if he's not scoring he literally is killing us ...
IF we are going forward with Tatum and Brown they need a distributor like Paul or Rondo (easier said then done ) ... hopefully some team takes a chance on Walker and we get lucky.

This is my point. You need to be very careful how you evaluate his skillset and you need to take into consideration how he is being used. The problem is not Kemba! The issue is the style of basketball that is being played around him which causes him to be maligned. Boston has the tendency to run a lot of isolation plays, especially with Tatum, who is 7th in the league for isolation possessions per game. This was the reason why Gordon Hayward chose to leave - his skillset was not being put to best use. I lost count of the number of times I would see Hayward stuck on the wing watching while Tatum would score in one on one situations.

Kemba is actually a brilliant option for running the offense through and is a capable and willing passer. Look at his last season in Charlotte - he was first on the team for assists, first on the team for potential assists (which refers to the possibility of an assist being awarded if the player had scored) and first of the team for secondary assists (which refers to passes which lead to an assist). Keep in mind too that he was also Charlottes first choice scorer so those stats will probably not rank as high as a player who is a pure passing point guard.

[aussie_pride]

I'm ready to move completely on from the volume shooter point guard all together...
Kemba is a disaster on the floor and if he's not scoring he literally is killing us ...
IF we are going forward with Tatum and Brown they need a distributor like Paul or Rondo (easier said then done ) ... hopefully some team takes a chance on Walker and we get lucky.

This is why I want the Celtics to trade for Lonzo Ball.

a) Rapidly emerging as an ideal pass-first point guard in the modern NBA - sees the whole floor, keeps his head up, finds the open man, looks for his teammates before looking for his own shot while at the same time being a deadly spot up shooter and also deadly when dishing to open teammate off the pick n roll

b) Age 23 so fits the timeline perfectly with Tatum (23) and Brown (24)

The problem with bringing in a pure passing point guard is that you are sort of giving free reign to Tatum to continue what he is doing. Everyone is going to have their opinions on this but my view is that it is bad basketball and history has proven this. Teams that are propped up by pure scoring players inevitably fail; just look at Jordan and his Bulls teams of the late 80s! While he was undoubtedly a phenomenon it was only when he learned to integrate and play with his team mates that he began winning championships. Basketball is a team game and you need everyone contributing in as many aspects of the game as possible.

This leads me to my second point. If you are relying on one or two players to generate all of your points, especially those who have similar styles, then you take a huge risk when faced with adverse situations. For instance, what happens if they get injured or if they have a bad shooting night? Furthermore, its a lot easier to devise a defensive game plan for teams who rely on one or two players for scoring as opposed to sharing the load. Hence, I think Kemba does have his part to play and is a multidimensional player. We just need to accept that his role and influence is not going to be as great as what it was in his Charlotte days.

[sully00]

Give me Otto Porters expiring for him and a future first and cut your losses on Kemba.

But Boston becomes a very bad basketball team. If Marcus Smart or Payton Pritchard could become Kemba Walker overnight this would make sense. But either they can't or they are very stupid. We are not the 50 win team we expected partly because Kemba isn't who he usually is. The fact that it matters is that Marcus Smart isn't the player we hoped he would become.

[batabatuta]

Deal with him now. Boston Celtics ain't a rehab center. It's a basketball team and we expect all players to perform at NBA level and all max players at elite level.... consistently.

[GoGreen]

I am still on the Kemba for Horf bandwagon.

[LoquaciousLarry]

Give me Otto Porters expiring for him and a future first and cut your losses on Kemba.

But Boston becomes a very bad basketball team. If Marcus Smart or Payton Pritchard could become Kemba Walker overnight this would make sense. But either they can't or they are very stupid. We are not the 50 win team we expected partly because Kemba isn't who he usually is. The fact that it matters is that Marcus Smart isn't the player we hoped he would become.

Kemba hardly plays anyways right now so adding Porter helps take away Semi/Grant minutes and you add a future first. Get out of Kembas deal as he's an undersized guard who plays no defense and will continue to depreciate. Not worth the money for a 1 way player.

I'd prefer to get a package of an Oladipo, Aaron Gordon, Terrence Ross for Kemba, TT, filler and a 1st but we'll see.

This roster needs some flexibility. Would love to add Bagley and Lonzo for bargain values in other deals.

[RB34]

I'm ready to move completely on from the volume shooter point guard all together...
Kemba is a disaster on the floor and if he's not scoring he literally is killing us ...
IF we are going forward with Tatum and Brown they need a distributor like Paul or Rondo (easier said then done ) ... hopefully some team takes a chance on Walker and we get lucky.

This is why I want the Celtics to trade for Lonzo Ball.

a) Rapidly emerging as an ideal pass-first point guard in the modern NBA - sees the whole floor, keeps his head up, finds the open man, looks for his teammates before looking for his own shot while at the same time being a deadly spot up shooter and also deadly when dishing to open teammate off the pick n roll

b) Age 23 so fits the timeline perfectly with Tatum (23) and Brown (24)

And he can defend!!