ImageImageImage

Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier!

Moderators: ParticleMan, sully00, The Comedian, Parliament10, canman1971, djFan71, Froob

User avatar
CeltsfanSinceBirth
RealGM
Posts: 23,218
And1: 33,320
Joined: Jul 29, 2003
     

Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#221 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Mon Jun 7, 2021 11:42 pm

greenroom31 wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Davis Bertans got $16 million/year. Evan Fournier is worth more than him because he’s a better player. He’s not sticking around for $15 million/year. We are going to have to pay him at least the same amount of money Bogdanovic got from Atlanta (4 years, $72 million).


You think people believe Bertans is worth $16M/year now? It looks like a terrible overpay, so not sure why that would represent market or that I'd bring him up if I was Fournier's agent.


You would be a **** agent if you didn’t bring up Bertans’ deal while negotiating. If some house on your block sold for $1 million, and your house was way better than the one that just sold, wouldn’t you want to use that as a price comp or appraisal for your own house?
Hal14
Veteran
Posts: 2,519
And1: 1,469
Joined: Apr 05, 2019

Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#222 » by Hal14 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 12:23 am

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
greenroom31 wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Davis Bertans got $16 million/year. Evan Fournier is worth more than him because he’s a better player. He’s not sticking around for $15 million/year. We are going to have to pay him at least the same amount of money Bogdanovic got from Atlanta (4 years, $72 million).


You think people believe Bertans is worth $16M/year now? It looks like a terrible overpay, so not sure why that would represent market or that I'd bring him up if I was Fournier's agent.


You would be a **** agent if you didn’t bring up Bertans’ deal while negotiating. If some house on your block sold for $1 million, and your house was way better than the one that just sold, wouldn’t you want to use that as a price comp or appraisal for your own house?

Your post made me curious so I looked it up. Fournier's agent is Bouna Ndiaye. Below is a link to his list of client's, most are international players, and the only guy who really stands out on the list besides Fournier is Rudy Gobert.

https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Bouna-Ndiaye/66

Interestingly, Gobert is also a free agent this offseason:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/utah-jazz/rudy-gobert-13340/
User avatar
greenroom31
Head Coach
Posts: 7,128
And1: 9,221
Joined: Nov 06, 2004

Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#223 » by greenroom31 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 12:36 am

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
greenroom31 wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Davis Bertans got $16 million/year. Evan Fournier is worth more than him because he’s a better player. He’s not sticking around for $15 million/year. We are going to have to pay him at least the same amount of money Bogdanovic got from Atlanta (4 years, $72 million).


You think people believe Bertans is worth $16M/year now? It looks like a terrible overpay, so not sure why that would represent market or that I'd bring him up if I was Fournier's agent.


You would be a **** agent if you didn’t bring up Bertans’ deal while negotiating. If some house on your block sold for $1 million, and your house was way better than the one that just sold, wouldn’t you want to use that as a price comp or appraisal for your own house?


Not sure that analogy really holds up in this context but whatever. We’re not that far off in value and I agree I’m likely below market as I’m not that impressed by Fournier.

I’d rather pay rotation guys cheaply, especially at areas I’ve invested substantially in draft capital over the past few years (Tatum, Brown, Romeo and Nesmith). Would rather focus on trading Kemba and getting a PG or a big than invest in multiple years of Fournier.
User avatar
CeltsfanSinceBirth
RealGM
Posts: 23,218
And1: 33,320
Joined: Jul 29, 2003
     

Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#224 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Tue Jun 8, 2021 12:56 am

Hal14 wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
greenroom31 wrote:
You think people believe Bertans is worth $16M/year now? It looks like a terrible overpay, so not sure why that would represent market or that I'd bring him up if I was Fournier's agent.


You would be a **** agent if you didn’t bring up Bertans’ deal while negotiating. If some house on your block sold for $1 million, and your house was way better than the one that just sold, wouldn’t you want to use that as a price comp or appraisal for your own house?

Your post made me curious so I looked it up. Fournier's agent is Bouna Ndiaye. Below is a link to his list of client's, most are international players, and the only guy who really stands out on the list besides Fournier is Rudy Gobert.

https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Bouna-Ndiaye/66

Interestingly, Gobert is also a free agent this offseason:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/utah-jazz/rudy-gobert-13340/


Nah, Gobert signed a ridiculous extension. Lol
User avatar
GoCeltics123
RealGM
Posts: 13,675
And1: 24,918
Joined: May 05, 2015
         

Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#225 » by GoCeltics123 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 2:39 pm

Forgot the link, but Himmelsbach says re-signing Fournier is likely a major priority (shocker)
THIS TEAM IS RUINING MY LIFE

Read on Twitter
playa-hater
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,792
And1: 3,835
Joined: Aug 29, 2020
 

Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#226 » by playa-hater » Tue Jun 8, 2021 4:20 pm

Not saying I don't want Fournier,I do like his Hayyward like impact. But am wondering can Boston better use his salary elswhere while just promoting more playing time to Nesmith and Romeo??
"I never lose. I either win or learn". Nelson Mandela
User avatar
GoCeltics123
RealGM
Posts: 13,675
And1: 24,918
Joined: May 05, 2015
         

Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#227 » by GoCeltics123 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 5:11 pm

Fournier has indicated he would like to return, and Stevens will be asking whether the veteran wing player, who will get paid handsomely, is worth eating into his precious cap space this summer.
THIS TEAM IS RUINING MY LIFE





Read on Twitter
User avatar
JHTruth
RealGM
Posts: 14,223
And1: 2,482
Joined: Jul 02, 2003
Location: The Big Three are Back..

Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#228 » by JHTruth » Tue Jun 8, 2021 5:57 pm

playa-hater wrote:Not saying I don't want Fournier,I do like his Hayyward like impact. But am wondering can Boston better use his salary elswhere while just promoting more playing time to Nesmith and Romeo??


If we move Kemba, Fournhub and Smart will be like the only guys over 25 on the team. Wonder how much that really appeals to him
cloverleaf
General Manager
Posts: 7,901
And1: 5,051
Joined: Feb 10, 2007

Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#229 » by cloverleaf » Tue Jun 8, 2021 6:37 pm

JHTruth wrote:
playa-hater wrote:Not saying I don't want Fournier,I do like his Hayyward like impact. But am wondering can Boston better use his salary elswhere while just promoting more playing time to Nesmith and Romeo??


If we move Kemba, Fournhub and Smart will be like the only guys over 25 on the team. Wonder how much that really appeals to him


Plus Thompson and whatever vets you know the front office will be looking for. (As you get older that stuff isn't supposed to matter as much anyway...)
djFan71
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 9,871
And1: 12,179
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
 

Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#230 » by djFan71 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:40 am

I don't think we have much issues using Evan as a sign & trade this summer. The salary counting as 50% outgoing won't be a thing.

Questions 92 & 93 are for S&T. In 93:

The rules formerly known as BYC now apply under just one circumstance -- during sign-and-trade transactions (see question number 92). If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater


I read that as if we sign Evan to anything less than 120% of his current deal (ie, $17M * 1.2 => $20.4M), he doesn't trigger this and would count as full outgoing salary in any S&T. Does that sound right?

I doubt anyone is going to sign him to $20M. Even if it's declining by 8% that's 3yr/$57M. But if they wanted to, that would work. Increasing 8% gets you to 3yr/$64M, which is crazy overpay to me. I think all that means we can rely on him counting for his full outgoing salary.

Even if someone wants to go crazy and offer more than $20.4M starting, he'd at least count as his current salary, $17M for us.

Which, means we could sign & trade Fournier to pretty much anyone that can send back appropriate salary.

Am I missing anything? Obviously Evan would have to agree to sign, but cap mechanics-wise I think it's solid.
BostonCouchGM
Starter
Posts: 2,356
And1: 1,702
Joined: Jun 07, 2018

Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#231 » by BostonCouchGM » Yesterday 5:46 am

if we re-sign Fournier for what he can get on the market we are essentially killing any chance of us competing for championships and will lose Tatum. It was a terrible acquisition and throwing good money after bad is what poorly run franchises do. If Langford and Nesmith develop like they should, one of them, if not both, will be good enough to be the starter with the other the backup act the 2 and 3. We're set at PG, SG, SF with starters and depth. Fournier will only take minutes away from the kids and he's not better when you factor in defense. Once you consider the salary, it just makes no sense. It's the type of signing perennial losers make. We desperately need legit 4s and another Robert Williams level prospect at the 5. Fournier doesn't help in either regard. High usage chuckers who don't play defense, on bad teams, put up numbers like Fournier did. They almost never translate to the same production when on good teams. Let other teams sign the Dillon Brooks, Fourniers and Clarksons. Hard pass
sam_I_am
RealGM
Posts: 13,507
And1: 5,204
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#232 » by sam_I_am » Yesterday 5:42 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:if we re-sign Fournier for what he can get on the market we are essentially killing any chance of us competing for championships and will lose Tatum. It was a terrible acquisition and throwing good money after bad is what poorly run franchises do. If Langford and Nesmith develop like they should, one of them, if not both, will be good enough to be the starter with the other the backup act the 2 and 3. We're set at PG, SG, SF with starters and depth. Fournier will only take minutes away from the kids and he's not better when you factor in defense. Once you consider the salary, it just makes no sense. It's the type of signing perennial losers make. We desperately need legit 4s and another Robert Williams level prospect at the 5. Fournier doesn't help in either regard. High usage chuckers who don't play defense, on bad teams, put up numbers like Fournier did. They almost never translate to the same production when on good teams. Let other teams sign the Dillon Brooks, Fourniers and Clarksons. Hard pass


I don’t love Fournier but we need a guy like him and there is no other way to get one. Great teams pay to get shooters on their roster. The Sixers paid 9 million for Seth Curry and he looks great next to 3 stars even though he has been fringe NBA player until now.

We can’t afford to let a 20 million dollar slot evaporate. If there is a way to let him go and have full Gordon Hayward trade exception AND convince another team to give us a good player to use it on.....sure, sign me up. The alternative is to let him go for nothing (no big deal, we only used 2nd round picks to get him) and then sign nobody with our nonexistent cap room.

If we sign him, we can trade him or trade Smart contracts. Trading Kemba is a totally different transaction and it’s irrelevant as to choice with Evan.

I will say this. When he was getting comfortable and all of Tatum, Kemba, Smart and Brown were playing (which was like 3 games) .... our offense looked like it could be special. It never got there but it’s clear that the team badly needs a Joe Harris type to space the floor. I think Evan can be that guy.

Return to Boston Celtics