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Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier!

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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#181 » by playa-hater » Mon May 10, 2021 3:36 pm

Hal14 wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:It's a fair question to ask. If we run it back with Kemba/Smart/Pritchard/Langford/Fournier/Brown/Tatum/Nesmith are there enough minutes and shots to go around? Especially if you're going to pay up and pay what other teams are going to be willing to pay Fournier (probably $18-$20 mil for 3 years) does it make sense to give him that kind of $ when you have all of these other guys out on the perimeter all fighting for mins, all fighting for shots and you have Nesmith emerging and Langford with the potential to break out?

On one hand, I feel like this season with all of the injuries has shown us that you need the depth to compete so bring them all back. On the other hand, I think it's just not realistic to bring them all back, someone has to go, we'll see..

We need to move on from Kemba. -- Edwards is useless to us, as well.
Waters and Fall, need to be removed, as they don't appear to be able to make the NBA full-roster.

Fournier at $20M does become a questionable re-sign, with Nesmith and Langford in the Wings.
Also, Thompson's position could be upgraded, depending upon R. Williams' situation.

It's all in flux and partially contigent on other factors.
Kemba's money, needs to be freed up for Fournier, and/or to bring in another Center.

And we only need 2 of G. Williams, Ojeleye and Parker.
So, one gotta go.


Proposed 2021-22 Lineup:
Starters: Pritchard - Fournier - Brown - Tatum - R.Williams
Rotation: Smart - Nesmith - Langford - G.Williams - Thompson?

Rookie - Rookie - Ojeleye - Parker - Kornet
Two-Ways: Waters - Fall

Remove
Kemba
Edwards
Thompson?

Agreed that 1 has to go between Grant/Ojeleye/Parker. Agreed that Edwards needs to go. I'm also down with upgrading from Thompson.

But Thompson and Kemba are both under contract for next year. Both are players are on the wrong side of 30, both missed lots of games this year, both have overpriced contracts so trading 1 will be tough..trading both might be damn near impossible.

In your scenario, we are trading Kemba for who exactly? Are we just giving him away to clear cap space?


the Kemba situation is clearly a huge problem without an easy solution. I almost hate trading a pick to clear him from our roster. The only possible solution I see is making Kemba the 6th man. let him feast on 2nd units if he can, if not take him out early. Kemba + Brown + Tatum as starters make it difficult to get all in rhythm. I can imagine if we barely played him, he might get frustrated and opt out the following year. Yeah I know, that won't happen.

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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#182 » by Spin Move » Tue May 11, 2021 2:05 am

thebirdman wrote:Do not see him resigning here. It is a toxic situtation it seems. Horford wanted out, Kyre, Hayward...

Just does not look like guys enjoy playing for Brad anymore...



Horfrod and Hayward did not want out, they were offered more money else where, Kyrie is a nut job, no reason to say it is toxic here JB and JT both re-signed Kemba wanted to come here etc
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#183 » by 31to6 » Tue May 11, 2021 2:15 am

One added challenge to JBs injury is that Fournier’s opportunity to shine and raise his price tag this summer just went up.

I like him and want him back even at fairly big $.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#184 » by ParticleMan » Tue May 11, 2021 8:38 am

^^oorrrrr.... he sucks mightily like he's done in every playoff series he's been in before and drops his value hehe.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#185 » by celtxman » Tue May 11, 2021 11:49 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
He was a bucket away from exceeding his career high. In just his 13th game as a Celtic. Post-COVID. Without much practice time and integration. And without enough plays being set up for him. That's super valuable on a team with ball-dominant stars who attract defensive attention. Even added 8 assists like it was nothing. Gets his in the flow of the offense but doesn't hesitate when he's open. He also doesn't overdribble or overthink. Moves well without the ball and gets others involved when he has the ball.

Hope they can retain him on a decent contract.
I dont think they will be able to find someone like Fournier who may be the perfect fill for the loss of talent with Hayward. He opted in to the $17 million option with Orlando so if he is happy in a situation he might stay. 3 years $70 million, hopefully less but dont lose him.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#186 » by 31to6 » Wed May 12, 2021 2:37 am

Alright, so assume for the sake of discussion that Myles Turner was a real possibility last summer (I know that’s been discussed ad naseum, not trying to reignite that convo).

But who do you prefer for us going forward:
Turner or Fournier?
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier 

Post#187 » by Spin Move » Wed May 12, 2021 6:41 am

31to6 wrote:Alright, so assume for the sake of discussion that Myles Turner was a real possibility last summer (I know that’s been discussed ad naseum, not trying to reignite that convo).

But who do you prefer for us going forward:
Turner or Fournier?



This is tough because Turner is a really flawed player who is an amazing shotblocker and average offenisve player but rebounds poorly for his size. I am firmly in the Nesmith can play camp, and thus since he can be a backup wing and we don't have a great shotblocker who can stay healthy Turner is likley a better fit, however this was not really a choice GH took more money in CHL then Indy was offering. There was no Indy deal to be made as GH chose not to go there.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#188 » by ParticleMan » Wed May 12, 2021 7:39 am

31to6 wrote:Alright, so assume for the sake of discussion that Myles Turner was a real possibility last summer (I know that’s been discussed ad naseum, not trying to reignite that convo).

But who do you prefer for us going forward:
Turner or Fournier?


Neither, tbh. Both are empty stats kings. Neither are quality starters on a championship-level team.

But if I had to pick one, it's Fournier. Shooting is the best skill you can have as an NBA player, and it's rare that a team ever has enough quality shooters. We've been talking for the last few years how we needed a quality shooter to play off of the Jays. Fournier is exactly that guy. Plus he's a solid ball mover. Offensively he's just what the doctor ordered. If only he could defend anyone, at all...
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#189 » by threrf23 » Fri May 14, 2021 6:13 am

31to6 wrote:Alright, so assume for the sake of discussion that Myles Turner was a real possibility last summer (I know that’s been discussed ad naseum, not trying to reignite that convo).



It wasn't just Turner, it was Turner & McDermott.

Myles + McBuckets > TT + Fournier
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#190 » by scottyno » Fri May 14, 2021 8:10 am

threrf23 wrote:
31to6 wrote:Alright, so assume for the sake of discussion that Myles Turner was a real possibility last summer (I know that’s been discussed ad naseum, not trying to reignite that convo).



It wasn't just Turner, it was Turner & McDermott.

Myles + McBuckets > TT + Fournier


You're ignoring that if they make that trade TImelord never emerges as the potential impact player he has because he's stuck behind Turner for the next 2 years, which probably means they would have had a lower ceiling this year and next year.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#191 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri May 14, 2021 9:51 am

I don't understand why people are so down on Fournier's defense. The whole team has been lousy on defense a much too high fraction of the time, but how has Fournier been a particular villain?

For one thing, he's gotten a lot of steals, and I don't recall them as being largely of the gambling variety. Rather, the ones that stood out for me were more along the lines of stopping a guy, then taking the ball from him while he was trying to recover.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#192 » by Hal14 » Fri May 14, 2021 7:26 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:I don't understand why people are so down on Fournier's defense. The whole team has been lousy on defense a much too high fraction of the time, but how has Fournier been a particular villain?

For one thing, he's gotten a lot of steals, and I don't recall them as being largely of the gambling variety. Rather, the ones that stood out for me were more along the lines of stopping a guy, then taking the ball from him while he was trying to recover.

Agreed. He has been solid on D.

Sometimes has been slow on rotations and when closing out on shooters. And has gotten abused at times down low when he's switched onto bigger guys. But overall he's been solid on D and has made some really nice steals (and even blocks) by just straight up getting after it, being pesky/tenacious and making a play.

Plus he said he's still feeling some effects of COVID so that needs to also be factored in.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#193 » by snowman » Fri May 14, 2021 8:44 pm

ParticleMan wrote:
31to6 wrote:Alright, so assume for the sake of discussion that Myles Turner was a real possibility last summer (I know that’s been discussed ad naseum, not trying to reignite that convo).

But who do you prefer for us going forward:
Turner or Fournier?


Neither, tbh. Both are empty stats kings. Neither are quality starters on a championship-level team.

But if I had to pick one, it's Fournier. Shooting is the best skill you can have as an NBA player, and it's rare that a team ever has enough quality shooters. We've been talking for the last few years how we needed a quality shooter to play off of the Jays. Fournier is exactly that guy. Plus he's a solid ball mover. Offensively he's just what the doctor ordered. If only he could defend anyone, at all...


Fournier, all day long. We finally have a couple shooters in Fournier and Nesmith, to work with Tatum and Brown. Are we now going to let him walk too ? I resign him for 4 for 80 this off season at 1 min past deadline to sign free agents.

I just feel that Kemba or Smart need to go this summer. One goes, the other starts at pg, along with Fournier, Tatum and a healthy Brown and Timelord. Then we run PP, Langford, Nesmith, Parker and Thompson as out 2nd unit. Thompson is fine as a backup off the bench. I also resign Kornet as the 3rd big. One of Kemba or Smart, along with Edwards and Semi need to go. I agree with the poster that it's time to move on from Waters and Fall. They are not going to make the big league roster. I give G. Will one more year to prove himself or he's gone. Our 1st round pick should take Semi roster spot, and whom ever we trade for between Kemba and Smart can take Edwards roster spot. Yam Mader, our 2nd round pick from last year, can replace Waters as one of the 2 ways and our second round pick this year can take the other spot.

We end up with:
(Kemba / Smart), Fouriner, Brown, Tatum, Timelord
PP, Langford, Nesmith, Parker, Thompson
(Kemba / Smart trade return) (1st rd pick) (FA replacing Edwards), G. Will, Kornet
2 ways:
Mader, (2nd round pick)
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#194 » by GoCeltics123 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 4:05 pm

The team’s most important free agent is trade deadline acquisition Fournier. If the team chooses to re-sign Fournier, it’ll fly over the tax level. League rumblings have Fournier seeking a similar salary in free agency to what he received this year at $17 million. While that number seems high at first glance, it’s worth noting the three factors in Fournier’s favor in terms of negotiations.

First, about half of the league has potential (keyword being potential, not necessarily likely) to get up to around the $17 million mark in cap space. Seven teams will have very little issue getting to that ballpark, meaning there is a real amount of money on the marketplace.

Second, in a market that has been stripped bare by prior long-term commitments from star players, Fournier has a real case as one of the top-10 unrestricted free agents on the market. Over the last four years, he’s been a consistent 17 point-per-game guy who shoots 38 percent from 3. In theory, he is a good fit in Boston for his role on offense. But he also was lost or overmatched defensively in his time in Boston, a similar situation as to what happened in Orlando. The good news is if Brown is out there, it’s easier to slot Fournier into better defensive matchups.

Finally, and arguably most important in the case of the Celtics, the team has very little in the way of replacing him if he does depart. Boston does still have a trade exception worth slightly more than $11 million, so the Celtics do have options. But they better know what they can get for that exception before deciding to move on from Fournier. Additionally, the team could simply decide to keep Fournier and maintain the exception if they were willing to plunge deep into the luxury tax if they think 2021 was an anomaly. The French wing has the Celtics over a bit of a barrel if they want him to stick around.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#195 » by Hal14 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:42 pm

GoCeltics123 wrote:
The team’s most important free agent is trade deadline acquisition Fournier. If the team chooses to re-sign Fournier, it’ll fly over the tax level. League rumblings have Fournier seeking a similar salary in free agency to what he received this year at $17 million. While that number seems high at first glance, it’s worth noting the three factors in Fournier’s favor in terms of negotiations.

First, about half of the league has potential (keyword being potential, not necessarily likely) to get up to around the $17 million mark in cap space. Seven teams will have very little issue getting to that ballpark, meaning there is a real amount of money on the marketplace.

Second, in a market that has been stripped bare by prior long-term commitments from star players, Fournier has a real case as one of the top-10 unrestricted free agents on the market. Over the last four years, he’s been a consistent 17 point-per-game guy who shoots 38 percent from 3. In theory, he is a good fit in Boston for his role on offense. But he also was lost or overmatched defensively in his time in Boston, a similar situation as to what happened in Orlando. The good news is if Brown is out there, it’s easier to slot Fournier into better defensive matchups.

Finally, and arguably most important in the case of the Celtics, the team has very little in the way of replacing him if he does depart. Boston does still have a trade exception worth slightly more than $11 million, so the Celtics do have options. But they better know what they can get for that exception before deciding to move on from Fournier. Additionally, the team could simply decide to keep Fournier and maintain the exception if they were willing to plunge deep into the luxury tax if they think 2021 was an anomaly. The French wing has the Celtics over a bit of a barrel if they want him to stick around.

Oh nice, he only wants $17 mil. I was thinking we'd have to pay him in the $20-$22 mil range.

Give him a slight bump to $18 mil. 3 years, $54 mil. Maybe a team option for a 4th year. Get it signed as soon as free agency opens up.

I'm iffy about giving 4 years to someone who's 28 years old (and has had a decent amount of injuries over the years, including this past season where he missed significant time to injury).
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#196 » by 31to6 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:50 pm

Hal14 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:I don't understand why people are so down on Fournier's defense. The whole team has been lousy on defense a much too high fraction of the time, but how has Fournier been a particular villain?

For one thing, he's gotten a lot of steals, and I don't recall them as being largely of the gambling variety. Rather, the ones that stood out for me were more along the lines of stopping a guy, then taking the ball from him while he was trying to recover.

Agreed. He has been solid on D.

Sometimes has been slow on rotations and when closing out on shooters. And has gotten abused at times down low when he's switched onto bigger guys. But overall he's been solid on D and has made some really nice steals (and even blocks) by just straight up getting after it, being pesky/tenacious and making a play.

Plus he said he's still feeling some effects of COVID so that needs to also be factored in.


Do we have any defensive metrics about his playoff performance?

To the eye, Harden waltzed right past him, but Harden does that to a lot of guys, so I don't want to overplay it.
Couldn't stay in front of Kyrie a couple of times either, but again, that's par for the course, and he DID call KD a bitch which is pretty $$$ in my book.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#197 » by 31to6 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:54 pm

ParticleMan wrote:^^oorrrrr.... he sucks mightily like he's done in every playoff series he's been in before and drops his value hehe.


not clear which of us was right here.
Shot 43/43/83 for 15ppg in 33mpg.
TS of 56% was his career playoff high by far (in the 46% range previously!) and down just 2% from what he did in the RS with us.
VORP of 0.0 and 0.1 WS in 5 games against BRK is 'meh', but he *looked* like (and was) one of our better players out there, which probably makes him seem more valuable (to us and to some other teams as well).
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#198 » by CelticsPride18 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:56 pm

The team was a mess defensively and I’m not going to criticize him for not being able to guard the 3 of the best ISo players in the NBA. He can a good piece if we retain him in the 14-18 million range. He can easily be a 40 % 3 point shooting with playmaking ability and can score decently on all 3 levels.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#199 » by Hal14 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 7:02 pm

snowman wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:
31to6 wrote:Alright, so assume for the sake of discussion that Myles Turner was a real possibility last summer (I know that’s been discussed ad naseum, not trying to reignite that convo).

But who do you prefer for us going forward:
Turner or Fournier?


Neither, tbh. Both are empty stats kings. Neither are quality starters on a championship-level team.

But if I had to pick one, it's Fournier. Shooting is the best skill you can have as an NBA player, and it's rare that a team ever has enough quality shooters. We've been talking for the last few years how we needed a quality shooter to play off of the Jays. Fournier is exactly that guy. Plus he's a solid ball mover. Offensively he's just what the doctor ordered. If only he could defend anyone, at all...


Fournier, all day long. We finally have a couple shooters in Fournier and Nesmith, to work with Tatum and Brown. Are we now going to let him walk too ? I resign him for 4 for 80 this off season at 1 min past deadline to sign free agents.

I just feel that Kemba or Smart need to go this summer. One goes, the other starts at pg, along with Fournier, Tatum and a healthy Brown and Timelord. Then we run PP, Langford, Nesmith, Parker and Thompson as out 2nd unit. Thompson is fine as a backup off the bench. I also resign Kornet as the 3rd big. One of Kemba or Smart, along with Edwards and Semi need to go. I agree with the poster that it's time to move on from Waters and Fall. They are not going to make the big league roster. I give G. Will one more year to prove himself or he's gone. Our 1st round pick should take Semi roster spot, and whom ever we trade for between Kemba and Smart can take Edwards roster spot. Yam Mader, our 2nd round pick from last year, can replace Waters as one of the 2 ways and our second round pick this year can take the other spot.

We end up with:
(Kemba / Smart), Fouriner, Brown, Tatum, Timelord
PP, Langford, Nesmith, Parker, Thompson
(Kemba / Smart trade return) (1st rd pick) (FA replacing Edwards), G. Will, Kornet
2 ways:
Mader, (2nd round pick)

I agree with basically everything here.

Especially agree that Fournier and Nesmith give us 2 good shooters on the wings which is super important. Both of them will shoot even better next season since Nesmith will be further along in his development and Fournier will be fully recovered from COVID and also feeling more adjusted to our offense.

Only small thing I disagree with - I'm thinking 3 years, $54 mil for Fournier's contract. There's a post in this thread right after yours where he is quoted saying that he is hoping for a similar deal to his previous one which was $17 mil a year. Also, I'm iffy about giving a 4 year deal to a 28 year old - especially one who's had some injury issues, including missing significant time to injury this past season. Maybe a team option for a 4th year.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#200 » by 31to6 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 7:38 pm

CelticsPride18 wrote:The team was a mess defensively and I’m not going to criticize him for not being able to guard the 3 of the best ISo players in the NBA. He can a good piece if we retain him in the 14-18 million range. He can easily be a 40 % 3 point shooting with playmaking ability and can score decently on all 3 levels.


I agree. Evan was really good in the 'budget Hayward' role, which is good because Gordon was overqualified for it. There's a lot of free points available next to the Jays, and EF knocked 'em down at a good rate for us. Plus he's possibly a good mentor for Nesmith (who I'm also fine going with if we don't resign Fournier) in terms of being a knockdown shooter and also diversifying his game a little bit.
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