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Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier!

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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#201 » by GoCeltics123 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 10:33 pm

FWIW I was on Marc Stein's locker room app event and he said there's "some pessimism" that Evan Fournier will be back, but that's it's too early to tell
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#202 » by snowman » Fri Jun 4, 2021 11:11 pm

Hal14 wrote:
snowman wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:
Neither, tbh. Both are empty stats kings. Neither are quality starters on a championship-level team.

But if I had to pick one, it's Fournier. Shooting is the best skill you can have as an NBA player, and it's rare that a team ever has enough quality shooters. We've been talking for the last few years how we needed a quality shooter to play off of the Jays. Fournier is exactly that guy. Plus he's a solid ball mover. Offensively he's just what the doctor ordered. If only he could defend anyone, at all...


Fournier, all day long. We finally have a couple shooters in Fournier and Nesmith, to work with Tatum and Brown. Are we now going to let him walk too ? I resign him for 4 for 80 this off season at 1 min past deadline to sign free agents.

I just feel that Kemba or Smart need to go this summer. One goes, the other starts at pg, along with Fournier, Tatum and a healthy Brown and Timelord. Then we run PP, Langford, Nesmith, Parker and Thompson as out 2nd unit. Thompson is fine as a backup off the bench. I also resign Kornet as the 3rd big. One of Kemba or Smart, along with Edwards and Semi need to go. I agree with the poster that it's time to move on from Waters and Fall. They are not going to make the big league roster. I give G. Will one more year to prove himself or he's gone. Our 1st round pick should take Semi roster spot, and whom ever we trade for between Kemba and Smart can take Edwards roster spot. Yam Mader, our 2nd round pick from last year, can replace Waters as one of the 2 ways and our second round pick this year can take the other spot.

We end up with:
(Kemba / Smart), Fouriner, Brown, Tatum, Timelord
PP, Langford, Nesmith, Parker, Thompson
(Kemba / Smart trade return) (1st rd pick) (FA replacing Edwards), G. Will, Kornet
2 ways:
Mader, (2nd round pick)

I agree with basically everything here.

Especially agree that Fournier and Nesmith give us 2 good shooters on the wings which is super important. Both of them will shoot even better next season since Nesmith will be further along in his development and Fournier will be fully recovered from COVID and also feeling more adjusted to our offense.

Only small thing I disagree with - I'm thinking 3 years, $54 mil for Fournier's contract. There's a post in this thread right after yours where he is quoted saying that he is hoping for a similar deal to his previous one which was $17 mil a year. Also, I'm iffy about giving a 4 year deal to a 28 year old - especially one who's had some injury issues, including missing significant time to injury this past season. Maybe a team option for a 4th year.


If he would take 3 for 54 I'd be all over that. However, I would not lose him for another 2 mil a year, and would go as high as 3 for 60 if needed. Fully agree about not adding a 4th year. Major thing is, we really need to move on from either Kimba or Smart. I don't think the owners will sign Fournier to that kind of money to be a rotating 6th starter. I do think he "fits " Brad's system better than Kemba, and now that Brad's calling the shots, maybe we can get away from the 6'0 and under point guards that are a hindrance to the "switch everything" defense.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#203 » by Celts17Pride » Fri Jun 4, 2021 11:15 pm

GoCeltics123 wrote:FWIW I was on Marc Stein's locker room app event and he said there's "some pessimism" that Evan Fournier will be back, but that's it's too early to tell

Honestly probably hinges on a Kemba trade.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#204 » by GoCeltics123 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 11:17 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
GoCeltics123 wrote:FWIW I was on Marc Stein's locker room app event and he said there's "some pessimism" that Evan Fournier will be back, but that's it's too early to tell

Honestly probably hinges on a Kemba trade.

I agree, he sounded like he really had barely any idea but that it was just rumblings, but looking at it from a salary perspective purely it feels like Kemba has to be gone first.

Also he said, shockingly, we're going to try to trade Kemba
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#205 » by Hal14 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 1:52 am

GoCeltics123 wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:
GoCeltics123 wrote:FWIW I was on Marc Stein's locker room app event and he said there's "some pessimism" that Evan Fournier will be back, but that's it's too early to tell

Honestly probably hinges on a Kemba trade.

I agree, he sounded like he really had barely any idea but that it was just rumblings, but looking at it from a salary perspective purely it feels like Kemba has to be gone first.

Also he said, shockingly, we're going to try to trade Kemba

Yeah, trade Kemba.

Use the rest of the Hayward TPE ($11.5 mil)

Use Kanter TPE (roughly $6 mil)

Use Poirier TPE ($2.5 mil)

With that cap sapce we can hopefully add a star player and resign Fournier.

New star, Fournier, Tatum, Brown and whoever is left. That's our team...
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#206 » by 31to6 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 7:09 pm

Hal14 wrote:
GoCeltics123 wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:Honestly probably hinges on a Kemba trade.

I agree, he sounded like he really had barely any idea but that it was just rumblings, but looking at it from a salary perspective purely it feels like Kemba has to be gone first.

Also he said, shockingly, we're going to try to trade Kemba

Yeah, trade Kemba.

Use the rest of the Hayward TPE ($11.5 mil)

Use Kanter TPE (roughly $6 mil)

Use Poirier TPE ($2.5 mil)

With that cap sapce we can hopefully add a star player and resign Fournier.

New star, Fournier, Tatum, Brown and whoever is left. That's our team...


Can TPEs be combined like that?
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#207 » by Hal14 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 7:35 pm

31to6 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
GoCeltics123 wrote:I agree, he sounded like he really had barely any idea but that it was just rumblings, but looking at it from a salary perspective purely it feels like Kemba has to be gone first.

Also he said, shockingly, we're going to try to trade Kemba

Yeah, trade Kemba.

Use the rest of the Hayward TPE ($11.5 mil)

Use Kanter TPE (roughly $6 mil)

Use Poirier TPE ($2.5 mil)

With that cap space we can hopefully add a star player and resign Fournier.

New star, Fournier, Tatum, Brown and whoever is left. That's our team...


Can TPEs be combined like that?

no. You can't use more than 1 TPE in the same trade. I wasn't saying you do all of those things in same transaction. I'm just saying you do all of those things (multiple transactions though).
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#208 » by cloverleaf » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:04 pm

Hal14 wrote:
GoCeltics123 wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:Honestly probably hinges on a Kemba trade.

I agree, he sounded like he really had barely any idea but that it was just rumblings, but looking at it from a salary perspective purely it feels like Kemba has to be gone first.

Also he said, shockingly, we're going to try to trade Kemba

Yeah, trade Kemba.

Use the rest of the Hayward TPE ($11.5 mil)

Use Kanter TPE (roughly $6 mil)

Use Poirier TPE ($2.5 mil)

With that cap sapce we can hopefully add a star player and resign Fournier.

New star, Fournier, Tatum, Brown and whoever is left. That's our team...


Trade Kemba without a bad salary coming back in return? Which Jay are you including on that one???
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#209 » by JHTruth » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:36 pm

I'm indifferent to Fournhub's return. Didn't think he had much impact on the team. Getting Rob healthy and resigned is a far far bigger priority.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#210 » by greenroom31 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:41 pm

Overpaying role players usually doesn't work out super well. In his limited time here Fournier didn't show me enough to think he is anything more than a role player. I'd pass unless we can sign him cheaply to a "prove it" type deal (2 years, player option on second year type structure). I suspect some other team will pay him more.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#211 » by djFan71 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:55 pm

greenroom31 wrote:Overpaying role players usually doesn't work out super well. In his limited time here Fournier didn't show me enough to think he is anything more than a role player. I'd pass unless we can sign him cheaply to a "prove it" type deal (2 years, player option on second year type structure). I suspect some other team will pay him more.

I'd go over MLE to retain him just so we beat MLE teams. We need above average NBA players, and he is one. But, we can't be paying them $15-20M/year either. Anything less than $15M and I'm on board. He obviously will want more, but I'm not sure it's worth it, unless it's a short deal like you say. But, losing more talent isn't a great option either.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#212 » by Bleeding Green » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:56 pm

If they lose Fournier, they at least need to churn him into another TPE that they can use to acquire something of value later on. it's a joke if they just let him walk; and people should start getting on the owners for being cheap.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#213 » by djFan71 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:07 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:If they lose Fournier, they at least need to churn him into another TPE that they can use to acquire something of value later on. it's a joke if they just let him walk; and people should start getting on the owners for being cheap.

That'd be great if you can't sign him for a good deal and find a team wanting to take the S&T.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#214 » by greenroom31 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:36 pm

djFan71 wrote:
greenroom31 wrote:Overpaying role players usually doesn't work out super well. In his limited time here Fournier didn't show me enough to think he is anything more than a role player. I'd pass unless we can sign him cheaply to a "prove it" type deal (2 years, player option on second year type structure). I suspect some other team will pay him more.

I'd go over MLE to retain him just so we beat MLE teams. We need above average NBA players, and he is one. But, we can't be paying them $15-20M/year either. Anything less than $15M and I'm on board. He obviously will want more, but I'm not sure it's worth it, unless it's a short deal like you say. But, losing more talent isn't a great option either.


Yeah I think $15M annual is my cap for him, and if we went that high I'd like to do either 2 years with the second year a player option or 3 years with the 3rd year a team option.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#215 » by Elrod is Back » Mon Jun 7, 2021 7:16 pm

I;'d do a four year deal, with the fourth year team option, so the Cs can let him go.

21-22--$18m
23-23--$16.6m
23-24--$15.2m
24-25--$15.2m (team option)
total: $49.8m for three years; $65m for four years

This way it is easier to move him down the road, and his salary is less if he remains ion the team in 2024 or 2025 when the dreaded repeater tax kicks in.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#216 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Mon Jun 7, 2021 7:30 pm

Davis Bertans got $16 million/year. Evan Fournier is worth more than him because he’s a better player. He’s not sticking around for $15 million/year. We are going to have to pay him at least the same amount of money Bogdanovic got from Atlanta (4 years, $72 million).
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#217 » by greenroom31 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 7:40 pm

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Davis Bertans got $16 million/year. Evan Fournier is worth more than him because he’s a better player. He’s not sticking around for $15 million/year. We are going to have to pay him at least the same amount of money Bogdanovic got from Atlanta (4 years, $72 million).


You think people believe Bertans is worth $16M/year now? It looks like a terrible overpay, so not sure why that would represent market or that I'd bring him up if I was Fournier's agent.

Bogdanovic is a better target comp for Fournier, but Fournier is significantly worse IMO, hence the rationale to pay him less -- (3 years max instead of 4, $15M average salary instead of $18M). Joe Harris is another similar comp, except he's also better than Fournier (4 years, $75M).
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#218 » by Hal14 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 8:25 pm

greenroom31 wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Davis Bertans got $16 million/year. Evan Fournier is worth more than him because he’s a better player. He’s not sticking around for $15 million/year. We are going to have to pay him at least the same amount of money Bogdanovic got from Atlanta (4 years, $72 million).


You think people believe Bertans is worth $16M/year now? It looks like a terrible overpay, so not sure why that would represent market or that I'd bring him up if I was Fournier's agent.

Bogdanovic is a better target comp for Fournier, but Fournier is significantly worse IMO, hence the rationale to pay him less -- (3 years max instead of 4, $15M average salary instead of $18M). Joe Harris is another similar comp, except he's also better than Fournier (4 years, $75M).

Fournier is significantly worse than Bogdanovic, based on what?

This is what the market looked like for guys who are good role players, with size who can shoot the basketball:

Bertans $16 mil a year
Bogdanovic $18 mil a year
Harris $18.75 mil
Gallinari $20.5 mil

If you look at scoring volume, scoring efficiency, defense, passing, rebounding over the past 3 years, none of these guys are "significantly" better than Fournier. Even before the Nets had a big 3, Harris was a 14 PPG scorer. Now that they have a Big 3 so all of his shots are wide open since defenses are focused on the big 3, he's still a 14 PPG scorer. Fournier averaged more than 14 PPG each of the past 6 years in a row. Fournier is much better than harris at creating offense off the bounce, has more of a versatile offense skill set with spin moves into the lane, floaters, can shoot off the catch or off the dribble. Harris is a spot up shooter. They're about even in terms of defense and passing, Fournier is a better rebounder.

Fournier was quoted recently saying that a contract similar to his last one ($17 mil a year) would be fine for him. I figure we give him $17-$18 mil. Keep in mind he signed that previous contract for $17 mil a year and THEN played the 5 best seasons of his career. So obviously he's going to want at least that much, especially since he's only 28 and still in his prime.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#219 » by cloverleaf » Mon Jun 7, 2021 8:39 pm

I'm pretty sure I saw a $15-20M description from Fournier's camp re: what he'd be looking for annually. I think the C's need to sort out their bigger pieces first, but if they get that done in time, the ability to reup with him could potentially make him a candidate. Of course, a team with a new coach and new key players would be a different (better, I'd guess?) proposition for him as well.
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Re: Welcome to Boston, Evan Fournier! 

Post#220 » by GoCeltics123 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 8:52 pm

cloverleaf wrote:I'm pretty sure I saw a $15-20M description from Fournier's camp re: what he'd be looking for annually. I think the C's need to sort out their bigger pieces first, but if they get that done in time, the ability to reup with him could potentially make him a candidate. Of course, a team with a new coach and new key players would be a different (better, I'd guess?) proposition for him as well.

If we can dump Kemba, I see no reason not to give Fournier around that, it's an easy contract to move in the future
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