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It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread

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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1621 » by playa-hater » Wed Apr 7, 2021 11:17 pm

winsomme2 wrote:We desperately need another big. These are the games where the Theis trade is a glaring impact.

You can't be playing Grant at center and expect to have a competitive game. It's demoralizing.

Any word on Olynyk?


LOL we have had all 3 centers last year and this year healthy and Grant Williams was still used many times at center. Brad knows best 8-)
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1622 » by zoyathedestroya » Wed Apr 7, 2021 11:23 pm

playa-hater wrote:
winsomme2 wrote:We desperately need another big. These are the games where the Theis trade is a glaring impact.

You can't be playing Grant at center and expect to have a competitive game. It's demoralizing.

Any word on Olynyk?


LOL we have had all 3 centers last year and this year healthy and Grant Williams was still used many times at center. Brad knows best 8-)

Per cleaningtheglass.com, Celtics haven't played Grant Williams as a center in at least 15 non-garbage time possessions all season.

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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1623 » by robdog_5 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 11:40 pm

Love Smart as role player. Fearful we may see his market price him out. Especially if you feel Langford and possibly Neismith can legitimately start playing next year
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1624 » by keevsnick1 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:25 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
winsomme2 wrote:We desperately need another big. These are the games where the Theis trade is a glaring impact.

You can't be playing Grant at center and expect to have a competitive game. It's demoralizing.

Any word on Olynyk?


LOL we have had all 3 centers last year and this year healthy and Grant Williams was still used many times at center. Brad knows best 8-)

Per cleaningtheglass.com, Celtics haven't played Grant Williams as a center in at least 15 non-garbage time possessions all season.

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I actually think thats part of the problem with Grant this year. He was best really as a small ball five last year. He's fouled too much trying to guard wings this year.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1625 » by zoyathedestroya » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:31 am

keevsnick1 wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
LOL we have had all 3 centers last year and this year healthy and Grant Williams was still used many times at center. Brad knows best 8-)

Per cleaningtheglass.com, Celtics haven't played Grant Williams as a center in at least 15 non-garbage time possessions all season.

Spoiler:
Image


I actually think thats part of the problem with Grant this year. He was best really as a small ball five last year. He's fouled too much trying to guard wings this year.

Yep, agreed. he was more effective as a smallball backup 5 against certain teams last season. But having TT, Theis, Timelord pushed him down a position.

Today, Brad used him against Randle and he was effective. He also closed the game as the 5 so we could switch everything.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1626 » by AKFO » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:39 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:
keevsnick1 wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:Per cleaningtheglass.com, Celtics haven't played Grant Williams as a center in at least 15 non-garbage time possessions all season.

Spoiler:
Image


I actually think thats part of the problem with Grant this year. He was best really as a small ball five last year. He's fouled too much trying to guard wings this year.

Yep, agreed. he was more effective as a smallball backup 5 against certain teams last season. But having TT, Theis, Timelord pushed him down a position.

Today, Brad used him against Randle and he was effective. He also closed the game as the 5 so we could switch everything.

Tough because we suck this year but do wanna say getting Grant minutes at the 4 is important for his development especially if he’s gonna stay with us. He was purely a post player in college but I think he’ll show a little more guard skills over the next few years.

Playoffs I agree that he should mainly be used as a 5 like last year.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1627 » by FlatearthZorro » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:12 am




Coach Nick saying exactly the same stuff I've been saying about our season- Smart/Tatum/our defense/offense.

- He says Smart's value is over exaggerated as he makes way too many dumb plays- early 3s, weird shots at the rim, makes a lots of defensive mistakes, bad turnovers. He says that Smart is a good defender, but he's making a lots of mistakes on defense and calling other people out for it. He also says the one thing that I've found maddening about Smart- he calls people out while he takes no responsibility for his own awful plays. I've been saying it for so long- Smart isn't held accountable for anything and he doesn't hold himself accountable for anything. Imo, Danny should trade him while he has value around the league. I'm willing to bet anything that Smart would get benched for the **** he does on 80 of the other teams in the league.

- Tatum's drives to the basket are a problem as he gains no FTs out of it and he misses a LOTS of lay-ups. He's again shooting long 2s.

- Our defense is awful overall, we're bad at rotating and can't guard the 3 point line at all.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1628 » by aporel18 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 2:12 pm

Come on Danny, you can snag him from the jaws of defeat Raptors

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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1629 » by Celts17Pride » Thu Apr 8, 2021 2:17 pm

aporel18 wrote:Come on Danny, you can snag him from the jaws of defeat Raptors

Read on Twitter


Ainge needs to go out and get this guy. Goodbye Mo Wagner.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1630 » by Celts17Pride » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:20 pm

Read on Twitter


Oh well.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1631 » by Shak_Celts » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:21 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
keevsnick1 wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:Per cleaningtheglass.com, Celtics haven't played Grant Williams as a center in at least 15 non-garbage time possessions all season.

Spoiler:
Image


I actually think thats part of the problem with Grant this year. He was best really as a small ball five last year. He's fouled too much trying to guard wings this year.

Yep, agreed. he was more effective as a smallball backup 5 against certain teams last season. But having TT, Theis, Timelord pushed him down a position.

Today, Brad used him against Randle and he was effective. He also closed the game as the 5 so we could switch everything.


Put his foot in Giannis butt too. He has his moments. Sometimes he receives hate when he plays well. Not nearly as good as Smart but it's like that.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1632 » by TommyForever » Thu Apr 8, 2021 10:02 pm

Tatum could get to the line 100 times a game yet he doesn’t seem to want to. I think he is the one that is overhyped. Doesn’t mean I don’t like him. He’s definitely a bit overrated to me. Not by much but I honestly would trade him before Jaylen or Smart out of the three. Smart, Jaylen, RW, should be the core that we could add a massive star to. Just hypothetical. I’m content waiting for guys to get healthy and gel more this season and think we could make a cool playoff run.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1633 » by robdog_5 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 10:11 pm

If and this is a huge if....Romeo can stay healthy and be the defender we think he can be. We should deal Marcus this offseason. Only 1 season left on deal and maybe we can get a PF or pick

Maybe Maxi Kleber or TJ Warren. Salaries are somewhat close.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1634 » by The Comedian » Thu Apr 8, 2021 10:17 pm

FlatearthZorro wrote:


Coach Nick saying exactly the same stuff I've been saying about our season- Smart/Tatum/our defense/offense.

- He says Smart's value is over exaggerated as he makes way too many dumb plays- early 3s, weird shots at the rim, makes a lots of defensive mistakes, bad turnovers. He says that Smart is a good defender, but he's making a lots of mistakes on defense and calling other people out for it. He also says the one thing that I've found maddening about Smart- he calls people out while he takes no responsibility for his own awful plays. I've been saying it for so long- Smart isn't held accountable for anything and he doesn't hold himself accountable for anything. Imo, Danny should trade him while he has value around the league. I'm willing to bet anything that Smart would get benched for the **** he does on 80 of the other teams in the league.

- Tatum's drives to the basket are a problem as he gains no FTs out of it and he misses a LOTS of lay-ups. He's again shooting long 2s.

- Our defense is awful overall, we're bad at rotating and can't guard the 3 point line at all.


Hard to take Coach Nick seriously if he says Tatum misses a lot of layups and is again shooting long 2s.

Tatum shoots 72% at the rim, for comparisons sake, Jaylen is at 70%. He is also taking less shots from 16-3PT than he did last year, it’s the short mid range shots that he’s increased. If Tatum is a big issue with the offense, it sure doesn’t show up in the stats. Here is the teams offensive ratings for when the following players are on and off the court.

Tatum: 114/106.8, +7.2
Jaylen: 112.5/110.6 +1.9
Kemba: 112.8/111.6 +1.2
Smart: 112.3/112.2 +.1

Coach Nick is a clown.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1635 » by Patsfan1081 » Fri Apr 9, 2021 12:09 am

robdog_5 wrote:Love Smart as role player. Fearful we may see his market price him out. Especially if you feel Langford and possibly Neismith can legitimately start playing next year


He is a good role player, however he doesn’t believe himself to be one. Should have moved him when his value peaked, loosing another good player for nothing would be very frustrating.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1636 » by GoGreen » Fri Apr 9, 2021 4:45 am

Smart gone? Fine with me. Trading him for Lonzo would be fantastic.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1637 » by keevsnick1 » Fri Apr 9, 2021 5:22 am

The Comedian wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:


Coach Nick saying exactly the same stuff I've been saying about our season- Smart/Tatum/our defense/offense.

- He says Smart's value is over exaggerated as he makes way too many dumb plays- early 3s, weird shots at the rim, makes a lots of defensive mistakes, bad turnovers. He says that Smart is a good defender, but he's making a lots of mistakes on defense and calling other people out for it. He also says the one thing that I've found maddening about Smart- he calls people out while he takes no responsibility for his own awful plays. I've been saying it for so long- Smart isn't held accountable for anything and he doesn't hold himself accountable for anything. Imo, Danny should trade him while he has value around the league. I'm willing to bet anything that Smart would get benched for the **** he does on 80 of the other teams in the league.

- Tatum's drives to the basket are a problem as he gains no FTs out of it and he misses a LOTS of lay-ups. He's again shooting long 2s.

- Our defense is awful overall, we're bad at rotating and can't guard the 3 point line at all.


Hard to take Coach Nick seriously if he says Tatum misses a lot of layups and is again shooting long 2s.

Tatum shoots 72% at the rim, for comparisons sake, Jaylen is at 70%. He is also taking less shots from 16-3PT than he did last year, it’s the short mid range shots that he’s increased. If Tatum is a big issue with the offense, it sure doesn’t show up in the stats. Here is the teams offensive ratings for when the following players are on and off the court.

Tatum: 114/106.8, +7.2
Jaylen: 112.5/110.6 +1.9
Kemba: 112.8/111.6 +1.2
Smart: 112.3/112.2 +.1

Coach Nick is a clown.


Its kind of funny because he got the issue almost backwards. With Tatum its not his shooting percentage at the rim thats the issue, its the relatively low frequency he gets there. And with his long twos its not the frequency he shoots them, it's that he's just not particularly good at that shot. He's shooting right around 40% on shots between the paint and 3 point line. The year before he shot just under 40% on those shots. Plenty of star wing types shoot a higher percentage of their shots in that mid range, but also shoot 45%+ so its worth it. Combine both those things with relatively low free throw rate and you get Tatum.

But that said those all that stuff is fixable, he's still a very good to great offensive player even as he is, and part of it is related to the relative lack of offensive talent around him. I think both him and Brown who shares the getting to the rim/FTAr issue, would benefit from not having played half the year with two bigs and/or surrounded by guys who can't do anything but occasionally hit a spot up three.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1638 » by Captain_Caveman » Fri Apr 9, 2021 5:39 am

Patsfan1081 wrote:
robdog_5 wrote:Love Smart as role player. Fearful we may see his market price him out. Especially if you feel Langford and possibly Neismith can legitimately start playing next year


He is a good role player, however he doesn’t believe himself to be one. Should have moved him when his value peaked, loosing another good player for nothing would be very frustrating.


I'll keep pointing out the obvious. 60-70% of the games Marcus has played in the last 4.5 years, we are missing one or more All-Star caliber 20-25ppg scorers. He has repeatedly been asked to step up above and beyond what he should have been, and we have won a ridiculously larger share of those games than we had any business doing, especially in the playoffs. The other 30-40% of the time, he stays in his lane. Overall, he is one of the very best players in the league at his price (non-rookie scale), and been a primary reason in winning dozens of games a year for several seasons now. In the two years we had Kyrie, Smart was more valuable. In the three years we had Hayward, Smart was more valuable. In the year and a half we've had Kemba, Smart has been more valuable.

100% of the problem with this team for years now is that we do not have elite talent on par with the elite teams. It's the lack of quality (and availability) among our stars, not our role players or coach. Period. Underline it. Read it again and again and again if needed, until it sinks in.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1639 » by Curmudgeon » Fri Apr 9, 2021 5:45 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
Patsfan1081 wrote:
robdog_5 wrote:Love Smart as role player. Fearful we may see his market price him out. Especially if you feel Langford and possibly Neismith can legitimately start playing next year


He is a good role player, however he doesn’t believe himself to be one. Should have moved him when his value peaked, loosing another good player for nothing would be very frustrating.


I'll keep pointing out the obvious until it sinks in. 60-70% of the games Marcus has played in the last 4.5 years, we are missing one or more All-Star caliber 20-25ppg scorers. He has been asked to step up above and beyond what he should have been, and we have won a ridiculously larger share of those games than we had any business doing, especially in the playoffs. The other 30-40% of the time, he stays in his lane. Overall, he is one of the very best players at his price (non-rookie scale), and been a primary reason in winning dozens of games a year for several seasons now. In the two years we had Kyrie, Smart was more valuable. In the three years we had Hayward, Smart was more valuable. In the year and a half we've had Kemba, Smart has been more valuable.

100% of the problem with this team for years now is that we do don't have elite talent. It's the lack of quality (and availability) among our stars, not our role players or coach. Period. Underline it. Read it again and again and again if needed, until it sinks in.


Great post +1 Smart makes winning plays, many of which do not show up in the box score.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1640 » by Captain_Caveman » Fri Apr 9, 2021 5:53 am

Curmudgeon wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Patsfan1081 wrote:
He is a good role player, however he doesn’t believe himself to be one. Should have moved him when his value peaked, loosing another good player for nothing would be very frustrating.


I'll keep pointing out the obvious until it sinks in. 60-70% of the games Marcus has played in the last 4.5 years, we are missing one or more All-Star caliber 20-25ppg scorers. He has been asked to step up above and beyond what he should have been, and we have won a ridiculously larger share of those games than we had any business doing, especially in the playoffs. The other 30-40% of the time, he stays in his lane. Overall, he is one of the very best players at his price (non-rookie scale), and been a primary reason in winning dozens of games a year for several seasons now. In the two years we had Kyrie, Smart was more valuable. In the three years we had Hayward, Smart was more valuable. In the year and a half we've had Kemba, Smart has been more valuable.

100% of the problem with this team for years now is that we do don't have elite talent. It's the lack of quality (and availability) among our stars, not our role players or coach. Period. Underline it. Read it again and again and again if needed, until it sinks in.


Great post +1 Smart makes winning plays, many of which do not show up in the box score.


Thanks. As with Stevens, Smart is neither the solution nor the problem. We could watch a Tatum/Jaylen/Kemba team from now until the end of time, and it just isn't good enough. At least when we had Hayward, there was a possibility that we could somehow overcome our lack of top-tier talent with a preponderance of 2nd and 3rd tier talent. That's over now. This team is average in a 30-team league where 5-6 teams don't even try, and it has little to do with the coach or role players.

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