It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread

[Celts17Pride]

Brown and Rob Williams for Towns. Who says no?

Right now, Minnesota, Even if Towns were to declare he wanted out, they just extended him. And they haven't even had a chance to see what a core of DAW/Edwards/Beasley/Juancho/Towns can do yet for any stretch of time. They have zero incentive to move him right now.

I agree. Russell will be moved before Towns. Towns is signed up for 3 more years.

[bucknersrevenge]

What will be interesting to me is if the Celtics sign anyone to longer than a two year deal this off-season. I personally believe that Ainge is going to be setting up to add a max free agent in 2023-2024. That means some very tough decisions on Smart and Fournier. Ainge keeps adding players on rookie year contracts which sets up nicely to make a major splash in 2023-2024. R Williams is the only player on a rookie year deal that will be up for an extension before 2023-2024. Shouldn't impact the Celtics going after a max free agent.

Again the summer is going to tell you a lot about the vision of Danny Ainge and the Celtics starting with what the Celtics do with Smart and Fournier. Wouldn't be shocked if Ainge moved Smart for a draft pick and another rookie scale contract.

Could even be 2022-2023 if Kemba declines his option (I doubt it)

We will see.

So much this.

I think when FournHub comes back he's gonna provide so much spacing and scoring that Danny will have no choice but to lock him up. Any growth from Romeo just adds more leverage. This will force his hand with his current backcourt. Even if Danny can move on from Kemba, I'm still calling this season Marcus' last in Green. Danny has to maintain flexibility for exactly what you suggest yet at the same time get some assets for Marcus before he walks. If I were a betting man, I'd be the house that both guys are gone when next season begins.

[Celts17Pride]

What will be interesting to me is if the Celtics sign anyone to longer than a two year deal this off-season. I personally believe that Ainge is going to be setting up to add a max free agent in 2023-2024. That means some very tough decisions on Smart and Fournier. Ainge keeps adding players on rookie year contracts which sets up nicely to make a major splash in 2023-2024. R Williams is the only player on a rookie year deal that will be up for an extension before 2023-2024. Shouldn't impact the Celtics going after a max free agent.

Again the summer is going to tell you a lot about the vision of Danny Ainge and the Celtics starting with what the Celtics do with Smart and Fournier. Wouldn't be shocked if Ainge moved Smart for a draft pick and another rookie scale contract.

Could even be 2022-2023 if Kemba declines his option (I doubt it)

We will see.

So much this.

I think when FournHub comes back he's gonna provide so much spacing and scoring that Danny will have no choice but to lock him up. Any growth from Romeo just adds more leverage. This will force his hand with his current backcourt. Even if Danny can move on from Kemba, I'm still calling this season Marcus' last in Green. Danny has to maintain flexibility for exactly what you suggest yet at the same time get some assets for Marcus before he walks. If I were a betting man, I'd be the house that both guys are gone when next season begins.

Not saying it will happen but I wouldn't be shocked if it did happen. If that happens then everyone will know the plan is for 2023-2024 free agency.

[djFan71]

Could Siakam and Timelord play together? I know we have double-big PTSD, but I think it was mainly the wrong bigs, not necessarily the concept. Siakam's 3 pt % cratered this year, but hope he bounces back.

Assuming Lowry's gone, that team doesn't need to be paying a max to anyone. He's probably not worth it, but he's close. Something around Kemba to the Knicks, TT, Nesmith, Knox, 1st to TOR???

Smart, Jaylen, Tatum, Siakam, Rob
PP, Romeo, Fournier, Grant

Fill out with another PG and a banger big.

They are not giving us Siakam for Nesmith and 1st lol.

I think that only happens if Toronto wants out of Siakam's contract.

Yeah, that was my thought. I'd pay more, but was more wondering about people's thoughts on the fit, than the actual trade. It was just a starting point.

[Fierce1]

Yeah, that was my thought. I'd pay more, but was more wondering about people's thoughts on the fit, than the actual trade. It was just a starting point.

I think Harrison Barnes will be a better fit with Boston than Siakam.

There's still a chance Ainge will pursue Barnes in the off-season.

[djFan71]

Yeah, that was my thought. I'd pay more, but was more wondering about people's thoughts on the fit, than the actual trade. It was just a starting point.

I think Harrison Barnes will be a better fit with Boston than Siakam.

There's still a chance Ainge will pursue Barnes in the off-season.

Due to price? Isn't Siakam like everything you want Barnes to be and more so (if he regains his 3pt touch)?

[Half-Full]

One huge problem right now is that the ball is in the Js hands too much and they are not great ballhandlers or facilitators. If we had a real floor general type, we'd be waaaay more efficient in the half court and in transition. Jaylen and Tatum are extremely careless with the basketball.

This. So much this. The Jays are too dominant, and it seems as if everyone must bow down to them (give them the ball). Having a true facilitator would go a long way. In the meantime, I would like to see Brad put out a lineup that does not feature the Jays, at least every now and then. Now that we have Romeo back, and Evan Fournier, it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a combo that works.

How about:

Pritchard, Romeo, Fournier, Mo Wagner, and Timelord? or

Pritchard, Smart, Fournier, Semi, TT? or

Smart, Romeo, Fournier, TT, Kornet?

On days when the ball is dropping for the Jays, give them their usual minutes. On those days when it isn't, and their energy is not looking good, where's the harm in trying to find a combo that can move the ball, bring a different energy, and see if someone else might have a hot hand?

[MagicBagley18]

Biggest worry I’d have with KAT and Tatum is the temperament and of lack of fire. Would they be passionate enough to make each other better? Idk.

I could see Tatum listening to beal who he looks up to as a brother more than a kat.

in that scenario, what is Beal going to say to him, though? "Let's go do what we do in our shared-trainer mix-tapes"?

Tatum needs to want it himself. Needs to have that FIRE himself -- even if he's 'the ICE guy'.

This year, while painful, is a step towards him realizing that.

No, but when it comes from someone you look up to, trust, grew up with, took you under their wing and train with whom you also look at as a mentor it certainly can carry more weight than a player who you have no relationship with at all.

If you’ve played basketball or any sport we’ve all had people who when they speak you listen or when they say something it carries more weight than someone else. Of course it will have to come from within but yes hearing it from your family member /best friend could accelerate that process.

When beal says “attack” or “yo they can’t stop you” or “stop bitching at the refs” I’m not sure there’s anyone else whose a possibility in the league that Tatum would listen to more

[MagicBagley18]

Minnesota has zero incentive to trade KAT and if he doesn’t ask out - probably won’t but if they land a top 3 pick and can build around a draft pick, edwards and KAT comes to them and says trade me they can also build around whatever haul that gets them.

What we need to realize and it’s unfortunate for us having studs on long term deals.... but it doesn’t matter anymore how many years are left on a deal. Players but more importantly agents run the league. If KAT wants out he’ll get out and if they did it this offseason with 3 years left that means a team gets a full 2 years before that important walk year.

We’ve seen with harden which many people didn’t wanna do and used as a counterpoint that 2 years is really 1 year because then the player can leverage you and or walk. You could argue this offseason is the year to trade him

[GoGreen]

Getting rid of Kemba and Smart should be top priorities imo this offseason. Use that money for Lonzo, sign Fournier and add a vet big. Someone with size to add depth at the 4. It may not be perfect, but you solve facilitation issues, get a better defender in Ball imo, and keep that much needed scoring of Evan.

[Ernest]

One huge problem right now is that the ball is in the Js hands too much and they are not great ballhandlers or facilitators. If we had a real floor general type, we'd be waaaay more efficient in the half court and in transition. Jaylen and Tatum are extremely careless with the basketball.

This. So much this. The Jays are too dominant, and it seems as if everyone must bow down to them (give them the ball). Having a true facilitator would go a long way. In the meantime, I would like to see Brad put out a lineup that does not feature the Jays, at least every now and then. Now that we have Romeo back, and Evan Fournier, it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a combo that works.

How about:

Pritchard, Romeo, Fournier, Mo Wagner, and Timelord? or

Pritchard, Smart, Fournier, Semi, TT? or

Smart, Romeo, Fournier, TT, Kornet?

On days when the ball is dropping for the Jays, give them their usual minutes. On those days when it isn't, and their energy is not looking good, where's the harm in trying to find a combo that can move the ball, bring a different energy, and see if someone else might have a hot hand?

Because no one would score the ball. I agree they both suck at setting up teammates. But we need the scoring. One of them has to be out there. The real solution is that they get better at passing.

[bucknersrevenge]

One huge problem right now is that the ball is in the Js hands too much and they are not great ballhandlers or facilitators. If we had a real floor general type, we'd be waaaay more efficient in the half court and in transition. Jaylen and Tatum are extremely careless with the basketball.

This. So much this. The Jays are too dominant, and it seems as if everyone must bow down to them (give them the ball). Having a true facilitator would go a long way. In the meantime, I would like to see Brad put out a lineup that does not feature the Jays, at least every now and then. Now that we have Romeo back, and Evan Fournier, it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a combo that works.

How about:

Pritchard, Romeo, Fournier, Mo Wagner, and Timelord? or

Pritchard, Smart, Fournier, Semi, TT? or

Smart, Romeo, Fournier, TT, Kornet?

On days when the ball is dropping for the Jays, give them their usual minutes. On those days when it isn't, and their energy is not looking good, where's the harm in trying to find a combo that can move the ball, bring a different energy, and see if someone else might have a hot hand?

Hear what you're saying but if you'll forgive me, from what I'm reading here, the issue is not their dominance, it's maybe you think they're inefficient with their Usage. Your best players should be dominant. You should want the ball to be in the hands of your best players more often than not. But they need to make good decisions when they have it. Which means they need to take good shots. They need to pass the ball when it's appropriate and they need the players they pass it to to be able to knock down shots when it's their turn. I'm not sure how it helps us to put out lineups without our best players unless you're specifically trying to punish them and/or the team.

[Half-Full]

One huge problem right now is that the ball is in the Js hands too much and they are not great ballhandlers or facilitators. If we had a real floor general type, we'd be waaaay more efficient in the half court and in transition. Jaylen and Tatum are extremely careless with the basketball.

This. So much this. The Jays are too dominant, and it seems as if everyone must bow down to them (give them the ball). Having a true facilitator would go a long way. In the meantime, I would like to see Brad put out a lineup that does not feature the Jays, at least every now and then. Now that we have Romeo back, and Evan Fournier, it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a combo that works.

How about:

Pritchard, Romeo, Fournier, Mo Wagner, and Timelord? or

Pritchard, Smart, Fournier, Semi, TT? or

Smart, Romeo, Fournier, TT, Kornet?

On days when the ball is dropping for the Jays, give them their usual minutes. On those days when it isn't, and their energy is not looking good, where's the harm in trying to find a combo that can move the ball, bring a different energy, and see if someone else might have a hot hand?

Because no one would score the ball. I agree they both suck at setting up teammates. But we need the scoring. One of them has to be out there. The real solution is that they get better at passing.

Well, Fournier is a scorer. Pritchard can be counted on to score more if he was asked to, I'm sure. Romeo? We haven't seen him so much, but I'm sure he can score too, he just needs to know that it's OK to look to score, especially when the Jays are not on the court. The main thing however is to go out and play hard, bring some energy, play good defense. That can turn a game around.

[jmr07019]

Brown and Rob Williams for Towns. Who says no?

Right now, Minnesota, Even if Towns were to declare he wanted out, they just extended him. And they haven't even had a chance to see what a core of DAW/Edwards/Beasley/Juancho/Towns can do yet for any stretch of time. They have zero incentive to move him right now.

That's how I see it too but I do think it's a significant enough offer to make Minni think and say call us again in a year if we don't show any improvement. It's a substantial offer but what it would take to land a young all star center like Towns.

What we need to realize and it’s unfortunate for us having studs on long term deals.... but it doesn’t matter anymore how many years are left on a deal.

I don't think that's accurate. If anything recent history says the opposite. What stars have gotten traded with multiple years left on their deal recently?

A Davis - traded with 1 year left on his deal
Harden - traded with 2 years left on his deal
Kawhi - traded with 1 year left on his deal

I forget what Paul George's contract situation was on each of his trades.

Westbrook wasn't demanding a trade.

CP3 is great but at the time of his trades he wasn't in the Kawhi, Harden, Davis tier of players. I'm also not sure what his contract situation was.

Dipo - 1 year left on deal. Borderline star. Clearly not in that elite tier.
Melo (this was a long time ago) - traded with 1 year left

So if anything I think recent history says the opposite. Stars won't get moved with a lot of years left on their deal. As someone who thinks we should be targeting Towns this isn't great news.

[jmr07019]

Could Siakam and Timelord play together? I know we have double-big PTSD, but I think it was mainly the wrong bigs, not necessarily the concept. Siakam's 3 pt % cratered this year, but hope he bounces back.

Assuming Lowry's gone, that team doesn't need to be paying a max to anyone. He's probably not worth it, but he's close. Something around Kemba to the Knicks, TT, Nesmith, Knox, 1st to TOR???

Smart, Jaylen, Tatum, Siakam, Rob
PP, Romeo, Fournier, Grant

Fill out with another PG and a banger big.

Moving Kemba and getting Siakam in the same deal would be phenomenal. I believe Theis and Timelord was a lot better pairing than Theis and Thompson. That starting 5 would be great defensively. Offensively it might lack a little shooting but it would still be a huge step in the right direction.

[MagicBagley18]

Brown and Rob Williams for Towns. Who says no?

Right now, Minnesota, Even if Towns were to declare he wanted out, they just extended him. And they haven't even had a chance to see what a core of DAW/Edwards/Beasley/Juancho/Towns can do yet for any stretch of time. They have zero incentive to move him right now.

That's how I see it too but I do think it's a significant enough offer to make Minni think and say call us again in a year if we don't show any improvement. It's a substantial offer but what it would take to land a young all star center like Towns.

What we need to realize and it’s unfortunate for us having studs on long term deals.... but it doesn’t matter anymore how many years are left on a deal.

I don't think that's accurate. If anything recent history says the opposite. What stars have gotten traded with multiple years left on their deal recently?

A Davis - traded with 1 year left on his deal
Harden - traded with 2 years left on his deal
Kawhi - traded with 1 year left on his deal

I forget what Paul George's contract situation was on each of his trades.

Westbrook wasn't demanding a trade.

CP3 is great but at the time of his trades he wasn't in the Kawhi, Harden, Davis tier of players. I'm also not sure what his contract situation was.

Dipo - 1 year left on deal. Borderline star. Clearly not in that elite tier.
Melo (this was a long time ago) - traded with 1 year left

So if anything I think recent history says the opposite. Stars won't get moved with a lot of years left on their deal. As someone who thinks we should be targeting Towns this isn't great news.

Disagree with this entirely. I know all the scenarios and past trades but I did appreciate the history lesson and walk down memory lane. player movement and empowerment is relatively in it’s real infancy stages. It will start to be the norm of seeing guys demand trades and getting where they want regardless of years left on deals.

Harden just got exactly where he wanted with 2 years and an option on his deal and Brooklyn had nowhere near the best package. Another reason Houston was reluctant on Simmons was because they didn’t want klutch to get Simmons out of Houston even tho he had multiple years on his deal. Comparing today’s nba to carmelo’s trade demand is ancient history.

If KAT wants out he’ll get out because players and agents dominate the league and this will become clearer and clearer. If Tatum wants out with 2 or 3 years left he’ll be able to get out too. The only thing an extension represents is players finally cashing in on a big deal and the start of an actual hour glass ticking down the minutes players can leave a situation they aren’t happy in and real pressure for the organization to put a winning situation around a player.

[jmr07019]

Disagree with this entirely. I know all the scenarios and past trades but I did appreciate the history lesson and walk down memory lane. player movement and empowerment is relatively in it’s real infancy

Harden just got exactly where he wanted with 2 years and an option on his deal and Brooklyn had nowhere near the best package. Another reason Houston was reluctant on Simmons was because they didn’t want klutch to get Simmons out of Houston even tho he had multiple years on his deal. Comparing today’s nba to carmelo’s trade demand is ancient history.

If KAT wants out he’ll get out because players and agents dominate the league and this will become clearer and clearer. If Tatum wants out with 2 or 3 years left he’ll be able to get out too. The only thing an extension represents is players finally cashing in on a big deal and the start of an actual hour glass ticking down the minutes players can leave a situation they aren’t happy in and real pressure for the organization to put a winning situation around a player.

If players had that much power Towns would have traded himself at the deadline

[Fierce1]

Yeah, that was my thought. I'd pay more, but was more wondering about people's thoughts on the fit, than the actual trade. It was just a starting point.

I think Harrison Barnes will be a better fit with Boston than Siakam.

There's still a chance Ainge will pursue Barnes in the off-season.

Due to price? Isn't Siakam like everything you want Barnes to be and more so (if he regains his 3pt touch)?

Yeah, due to price.

[MagicBagley18]

Disagree with this entirely. I know all the scenarios and past trades but I did appreciate the history lesson and walk down memory lane. player movement and empowerment is relatively in it’s real infancy

Harden just got exactly where he wanted with 2 years and an option on his deal and Brooklyn had nowhere near the best package. Another reason Houston was reluctant on Simmons was because they didn’t want klutch to get Simmons out of Houston even tho he had multiple years on his deal. Comparing today’s nba to carmelo’s trade demand is ancient history.

If KAT wants out he’ll get out because players and agents dominate the league and this will become clearer and clearer. If Tatum wants out with 2 or 3 years left he’ll be able to get out too. The only thing an extension represents is players finally cashing in on a big deal and the start of an actual hour glass ticking down the minutes players can leave a situation they aren’t happy in and real pressure for the organization to put a winning situation around a player.

If players had that much power Towns would have traded himself at the deadline

No he wouldn’t and players absolutely have that much power and btw almost every single player u named on that list got to the destination they wanted. Ad got a ring where he wanted to go, harden showed up 50 pounds overweight, fought his team, didnt shoot and is in the mvp race- if anything recent events show how much control players can have and have empowered them further setting the stage for what’s to come.

These guys finally realize the power they wield and the organizations realizes it’s a terrible look to hold guys hostage who don’t wanna be there.

[bucknersrevenge]

Smart is worth keeping imo.
6th man and spot starter.

or have him surrounded by healthy talent that keeps him firmly in his 4th/5th option role.

Him trying to pick up the slack and being the 3rd, sometimes 2nd option will never work.

Worth keeping but "at what cost?" is what I keep coming back to? What do you have his value at on a re-sign right now? I think he's priced himself out of our financial maneuverability and beyond his current value.

I think he gets 18-21 million per season.

He is still going to miss games
he is still going to miss shots
but he is an excellent glue guy do whatever is needed type.

I think that is high pay for that type of guy.

And when we finally get off of Kemba it will be fine.

So on a team that is not yet a title contender, you're comfortable paying a 6th man and spot starter 20M per?