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Our road back to the top

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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#21 » by darrendaye » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:12 pm

ZeroTolerance wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
ZeroTolerance wrote:
I dunno....Everyone wants that established star....the guy who does the commercials...The "Name guy"...

Luca is the complete player...he does everything well and at his young age, he is not afraid of the limelight...

He gets as many assists or more than most point guards...and he's been scoring north of 30 per game on a regular basis....he rebounds...he defends...gosh he's good!


I honestly think there isn't one player in the league Cuban would trade Luka for.


That could well be....awful to be so envious...but the guy acts Celtic like....I mean a young Larry Bird, Havelcek, even Cousy like... in that he can do it all....somehow he just belongs in Boston!


Yeah, no way they trade Doncic. But there were questions about him in the draft. Would Atlanta have done a Tatum for #3 trade? Or Memphis at 4 with Atlanta doing the Young for Doncic trade subsequently?

But, this is the type of special move scenario that got Red his reputation. Does Ainge have a Brown for pick turned special player opportunity ahead of him? Wildly unlikely, but, never a consideration you should shut down.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#22 » by BK_2020 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:13 pm

Trade for KAT by:
Sending Jaylen to a 3rd team for picks and young assets (players in the 1st 2 years of their rookie deals)
Sending Kemba to a 4th team to dump him OR pay a 4th team to take DLo
Send Nesmith, PP and a million picks to Minny

Minny is probably building around Ant-Man and whoever they pick this year. KAT's not in their timeline. They would want multiple future assets they can use to trade for a 3rd star when Ant-Man and Cade are ready.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#23 » by ZeroTolerance » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:19 pm

darrendaye wrote:
ZeroTolerance wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
I honestly think there isn't one player in the league Cuban would trade Luka for.


That could well be....awful to be so envious...but the guy acts Celtic like....I mean a young Larry Bird, Havelcek, even Cousy like... in that he can do it all....somehow he just belongs in Boston!


Yeah, no way they trade Doncic. But there were questions about him in the draft. Would Atlanta have done a Tatum for #3 trade? Or Memphis at 4 with Atlanta doing the Young for Doncic trade subsequently?

But, this is the type of special move scenario that got Red his reputation. Does Ainge have a Brown for pick turned special player opportunity ahead of him? Wildly unlikely, but, never a consideration you should shut down.


You are so right Darren!... Red was the master and would beg borrow and steal to get his man...Tough to do these days...for one thing, If Danny did go so far out on the limb like Red did, there would be a hundred guys on boards like these that would have his neck for it.....never mind the Boston media base...We have become so conservative....and we question everything....Back in the day, people were not concerned about the business end of the sport....and now, that has become the driving force behind anything that is done....And you are not considered to have any knowledge of the sport unless you can figure how everything fits into the dam cap space....It's really gotten crazy IMO....
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#24 » by Curmudgeon » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:27 pm

1. Trade Kemba
2, Draft well

Look at all of the very good European big men drafted late in the first round or early in the second round: e.g. Jokic, Mark Gasol, Gobert. Ainge needs to find one of those.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#25 » by ZeroTolerance » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:37 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:1. Trade Kemba
2, Draft well

Look at all of the very good European big men drafted late in the first round or early in the second round: e.g. Jokic, Mark Gasol, Gobert. Ainge needs to find one of those.



JMO... but we should have kept Rosier.....but... the "pressure cooker' said otherwise....now we have that name player's salary to swallow.. and no body else wants to gobble him up....It happens!

I have to confess something Crum... it's good to get away from these boards and just watch basketball games....that's what I've been doing....everyone should try it....you enjoy the games more when you form opinions on your own....

I suppose you could call this a weak moment for me! IDK? :D
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#26 » by Gomes3PC » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:45 pm

ZeroTolerance wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:1. Trade Kemba
2, Draft well

Look at all of the very good European big men drafted late in the first round or early in the second round: e.g. Jokic, Mark Gasol, Gobert. Ainge needs to find one of those.



JMO... but we should have kept Rosier.....but... the "pressure cooker' said otherwise....now we have that name player's salary to swallow.. and no body else wants to gobble him up....It happens!

I have to confess something Crum... it's good to get away from these boards and just watch basketball games....that's what I've been doing....everyone should try it....you enjoy the games more when you form opinions on your own....

I suppose you could call this a weak moment for me! IDK? :D

Rozier was toast in Boston when we ran it back with Kyrie for his final year here. Tito burned his way out of here and I can kind of get it - he played well that postseason and then was relegated to a role player come that summer. Don't think there's a world in which Terry would have come back after all that.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#27 » by ZeroTolerance » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:53 pm

Gomes3PC wrote:
ZeroTolerance wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:1. Trade Kemba
2, Draft well

Look at all of the very good European big men drafted late in the first round or early in the second round: e.g. Jokic, Mark Gasol, Gobert. Ainge needs to find one of those.



JMO... but we should have kept Rosier.....but... the "pressure cooker' said otherwise....now we have that name player's salary to swallow.. and no body else wants to gobble him up....It happens!

I have to confess something Crum... it's good to get away from these boards and just watch basketball games....that's what I've been doing....everyone should try it....you enjoy the games more when you form opinions on your own....

I suppose you could call this a weak moment for me! IDK? :D

Rozier was toast in Boston when we ran it back with Kyrie for his final year here. Tito burned his way out of here and I can kind of get it - he played well that postseason and then was relegated to a role player come that summer. Don't think there's a world in which Terry would have come back after all that.


They all have their moments where they have to get by an issue or two....Think Tatum may be in that boat now...and many here questioned Brown's worthiness as well..... that's what developing players have to deal with...and hindsight is 20/20....who knows?

I wasn't Kemba crazy when that all went down....but many here were...People want that moment to be now....nobody wants to be patient and wait.....
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#28 » by Edug27 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:00 pm

You would need Tatum to develop into a legit top 5 player, and then Danny finding the right supporting cast.

I would envision Jaylen being moved, and Kemba being let walk.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#29 » by Ernest » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:03 pm

sprash9802 wrote:I don't see a way to a title with our current setup. We have a very passive GM who has made blunders in both FA and the draft, a coach who lives and dies by limited veterans and routinely gets out maneuvered deep in the playoffs, a flawed roster, lack of FTs and a consistent frontcourt.

We need someone as a GM who doesn't love his own draft picks like Danny does. Someone who isn't afraid of making a big move, or just moves, period. And we may need a coach who is not as passive and late to react like Brad. This org is very content as things stand. You can't win a championship being content.


The hate is strong is this one. We already have a fire everyone thread.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#30 » by Ernest » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:11 pm

Got an idea- hear me out- Kemba for a bad contract and a pick. Or prospect. Then re-sign Fournier. Him plue TT will be the salary for the next trade for a star. Just need to build the assets. I think this might be plan A. Why else use the TPE for an expiring contract. Must think there is a good chance to resign. If we resign Fornier we kind of need to trade Kemba right? His return won't be great and the Jays are still a year or 2 away. So we get another Wally or Raef or Theo.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#31 » by BK_2020 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:12 pm

Even without dumping Kemba we can have a 35% max space by 2022 off-season. Curry, Paul, Kawhi all UFA and like 10 other stars have PO for that off-season. Heck, we might be able to sign Kyrie again.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#32 » by JHTruth » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:07 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:1. Trade Kemba
2, Draft well

Look at all of the very good European big men drafted late in the first round or early in the second round: e.g. Jokic, Mark Gasol, Gobert. Ainge needs to find one of those.


Rob easily has Gobert upside. Jokic is such an outlier its like getting struck by lightening. Most euros are massive busts.

We need to get that bigger guard that's a bucket. Like Kemba only bigger and healthy and we're set lol
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#33 » by 31to6 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:11 pm

JHTruth wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:1. Trade Kemba
2, Draft well

Look at all of the very good European big men drafted late in the first round or early in the second round: e.g. Jokic, Mark Gasol, Gobert. Ainge needs to find one of those.


Rob easily has Gobert upside. Jokic is such an outlier its like getting struck by lightening. Most euros are massive busts.

We need to get that bigger guard that's a bucket. Like Kemba only bigger and healthy and we're set lol


Brogdon or Ball or ...? (draft someone?)
Step down in pure scoring ability, but yeah I predict we get bigger at PG before winning a title.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#34 » by The Comedian » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:12 pm

JHTruth wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:1. Trade Kemba
2, Draft well

Look at all of the very good European big men drafted late in the first round or early in the second round: e.g. Jokic, Mark Gasol, Gobert. Ainge needs to find one of those.


Rob easily has Gobert upside. Jokic is such an outlier its like getting struck by lightening. Most euros are massive busts.

We need to get that bigger guard that's a bucket. Like Kemba only bigger and healthy and we're set lol


I love Rob, but saying he easily has Gobert upside is awfully optimistic. Gobert is one of the most dominant defensive big men in modern nba history.

I think Rob is more Bam than Gobert. Which is an all star caliber player, and yes I stole that comparison from SmartWentCrazy.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#35 » by JHTruth » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:12 pm

BK_2020 wrote:Trade for KAT by:
Sending Jaylen to a 3rd team for picks and young assets (players in the 1st 2 years of their rookie deals)
Sending Kemba to a 4th team to dump him OR pay a 4th team to take DLo
Send Nesmith, PP and a million picks to Minny

Minny is probably building around Ant-Man and whoever they pick this year. KAT's not in their timeline. They would want multiple future assets they can use to trade for a 3rd star when Ant-Man and Cade are ready.


After so many years at the bottom of the League, I think we just have to admit KAT is a big stats on trash teams guy. I mean this is KAT's sixth year and they again are the worst team in the league. Worse than HOU. How can they be so bad if KAT is THAT DUDE
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#36 » by JHTruth » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:15 pm

The Comedian wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:1. Trade Kemba
2, Draft well

Look at all of the very good European big men drafted late in the first round or early in the second round: e.g. Jokic, Mark Gasol, Gobert. Ainge needs to find one of those.


Rob easily has Gobert upside. Jokic is such an outlier its like getting struck by lightening. Most euros are massive busts.

We need to get that bigger guard that's a bucket. Like Kemba only bigger and healthy and we're set lol


I love Rob, but saying he easily has Gobert upside is awfully optimistic. Gobert is one of the most dominant defensive big men in modern nba history.

I think Rob is more Bam than Gobert. Which is an all star caliber player, and yes I stole that comparison from SmartWentCrazy.


OK maybe I went a little wild but if the Celtics get Bam 2.0 at C they will take that and run with it all day. It is a good comparison. Interesting one since they're about the same age and played each other as Freshman in the SEC. Crazy how their paths have crossed again.

I'm not sure Gobert is an ideal fit with the Jays TBH
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#37 » by BK_2020 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:15 pm

JHTruth wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Trade for KAT by:
Sending Jaylen to a 3rd team for picks and young assets (players in the 1st 2 years of their rookie deals)
Sending Kemba to a 4th team to dump him OR pay a 4th team to take DLo
Send Nesmith, PP and a million picks to Minny

Minny is probably building around Ant-Man and whoever they pick this year. KAT's not in their timeline. They would want multiple future assets they can use to trade for a 3rd star when Ant-Man and Cade are ready.


After so many years at the bottom of the League, I think we just have to admit KAT is a big stats on trash teams guy. I mean this is KAT's sixth year and they again are the worst team in the league. Worse than HOU. How can they be so bad if KAT is THAT DUDE

Lebron wouldn't make the playoffs with the Wolves' roster, believe me. And they are focusing on Edwards' development letting him jack up 20 shots a game. If Jaylen was the Wolves' star instead of KAT they wouldn't have won a single game.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#38 » by Gomes3PC » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:38 pm

My biggest issue with the pairing of Tatum and Brown long-term is that there is no offensive synergy between the two of them, at least offensively. You can probably count on one hand the number of times that they have assisted on each other's passes, and rarely do we even run actions combining them. It's very much "your turn/my turn" - now, some of that I just blame on Brad, he needs to be more creative there, but it also speaks to the fact that neither are true "primary initiator" types - both better suited as finishers/scorers than making a teammate better.

Ideally, we find our own primary initiator and let Tatum be the #3 and Brown be an elite #3. The "#1" there doesn't even need to be a true top 10 guy - if we could find a young Kyle Lowry type, even that would work. A guy like DeAaron Fox or the like (CAVEAT, I KNOW THAT FOX IS NOT AVAILABLE). I just don't see how we do that without using one of Tatum or Brown in a package, unless one of our youngsters really blows up.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#39 » by JHTruth » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:56 pm

Gomes3PC wrote:My biggest issue with the pairing of Tatum and Brown long-term is that there is no offensive synergy between the two of them, at least offensively. You can probably count on one hand the number of times that they have assisted on each other's passes, and rarely do we even run actions combining them. It's very much "your turn/my turn" - now, some of that I just blame on Brad, he needs to be more creative there, but it also speaks to the fact that neither are true "primary initiator" types - both better suited as finishers/scorers than making a teammate better.

Ideally, we find our own primary initiator and let Tatum be the #3 and Brown be an elite #3. The "#1" there doesn't even need to be a true top 10 guy - if we could find a young Kyle Lowry type, even that would work. A guy like DeAaron Fox or the like (CAVEAT, I KNOW THAT FOX IS NOT AVAILABLE). I just don't see how we do that without using one of Tatum or Brown in a package, unless one of our youngsters really blows up.


You'd need the Jays to go recruit them and force their way to Boston. Don't think it's going to happen otherwise
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#40 » by Fencer reregistered » Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:12 pm

31to6 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:Internal development.


There will of course be trades/additions/departures, but I wonder how far we could get with this? My rosiest take = 'championship is posssssssibllee!' My worst take is that we can lose in the ECF every year for all eternity. To quote Danny "I like [these] guys":

Tatum = star (best case = Kobe making a shot, worst case = Kobe missing a shot)
Jaylen = star (best case = Pippen, worst case = BCGM)
Robert = above-average impact starter (best case = Rodman, worst-case = Birdman)
Smart = enigma with a hopefully improved fg% (best case = Draymond? Eric Snow? worst-case = Metta Worldpeace)
Kemba = above-average starter (best case = Tony Parker?, worst case = DNP-knee)
Fournier = Grade A bench sniper/spot starter (best case = Lou Williams/Vinny Johnson, worst case = testicular gangrene)
Pritchard = solid bench sparkplug (best case = van Vleet, worst case = Chris Herren)
Nesmith = solid bench shooter/energy guy? (best case = shorter Walter McCarty or Saddiq Bey, worst case = DNP-CD)
Langford = messiah (best case = Larry Bird, worst case = not real)
Wagner = that goofy white guy who danced on LAL (best and worst cases combined)

Thanks to our picks and sudden range of salaries, I do think we can be a player when a star shakes loose. But I do think it's not impossible that we could develop like the old fashioned 'Bad Boy' Pistons did -- from playoff team to title contender (not in terms of personality, this would be the 'Good Guy' Celtics:).


Less jokingly, I'd say:

Tatum value ceiling = all-NBA first team, like older peak Kawhi. Tatum will never be peak Kawhi on defense, but when Kawhi was that he wasn't as great an offensive plyayer yet.

Brown value ceiling = lower-end all-NBA player, like Klay. Almost nobody ever will equal Klay at what he's best at, but Jaylen could be very, very good at the same things and more versatile at both ends of the court.

Rob Williams value ceiling = lower-end all-NBA player. Elite help player at both ends of the court plus very effective if a bit limited point-of-attack one at both ends.

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