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Our road back to the top

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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#61 » by Bohemian » Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:53 pm

The only bright spot is Jayson Tatum. The kid is just a superstar. But the team is godawful, Ainge has lost his particular chess game with the league and Brad is clueless.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#62 » by GoGreen » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:29 pm

I want Ainge gone yesterday. I'm still on the Brad bandwagon, at least until he has a roster not filled with scrubs. But he's on a short leash, too.

The roster is so bad, and that's on Danny. I don't think this team makes great strides until he's gone. Team needs new vision in the FO. Someone that knows how to construct a roster and draft properly. Not waste assets.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#63 » by Spin Move » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:39 pm

You add KAT, he is the missing piece. It is unlikley that happens but with Brown and Tatum you want an inside out big who can score and rebound and draw the defense. Won't happen his first year as he needs to learn to play defense but if he become available you offer everything not named Tatum and Brown for him. Robert Williams, Smart, Nesmith, Langford 3 firsts.....probably won't be enough.But you get a big 3 and hope that the rest of the rotation comes in cheap...See what Brooklyn lucked into (btw they are winning the title this year) We need an All star Big, AD would be prefered but he is locked in with Lebron, so KAT is the next best thing.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#64 » by Spin Move » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:44 pm

The Comedian wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:1. Trade Kemba
2, Draft well

Look at all of the very good European big men drafted late in the first round or early in the second round: e.g. Jokic, Mark Gasol, Gobert. Ainge needs to find one of those.


Rob easily has Gobert upside. Jokic is such an outlier its like getting struck by lightening. Most euros are massive busts.

We need to get that bigger guard that's a bucket. Like Kemba only bigger and healthy and we're set lol


I love Rob, but saying he easily has Gobert upside is awfully optimistic. Gobert is one of the most dominant defensive big men in modern nba history.

I think Rob is more Bam than Gobert. Which is an all star caliber player, and yes I stole that comparison from SmartWentCrazy.


Rob's best case scenario is a better rebounding Myles Turner. He is not an all star he (not saying he won't ever make one team but he will not be a real star) he is a very good role player like Marcus Smart, that is where he looks to end up I don't see him scoring more then 15 points a game ever but maybe he could be 15 pts 11 boards 4 assists 3 blocks and steal a game where he is a huge force on a winning team. Let's not go crazy though nothing to this pont has shown anything more then slightly above average offensive potential.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#65 » by Ernest » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:50 pm

Spin Move wrote:You add KAT, he is the missing piece. It is unlikley that happens but with Brown and Tatum you want an inside out big who can score and rebound and draw the defense. Won't happen his first year as he needs to learn to play defense but if he become available you offer everything not named Tatum and Brown for him. Robert Williams, Smart, Nesmith, Langford 3 firsts.....probably won't be enough.But you get a big 3 and hope that the rest of the rotation comes in cheap...See what Brooklyn lucked into (btw they are winning the title this year) We need an All star Big, AD would be prefered but he is locked in with Lebron, so KAT is the next best thing.


You have the right idea: a big 3 that you can fill out the roster around them with ring chasers, cheap vets and a solid player or 2 on a rookie deal. The problem for now is Tatum and Brown are just to young for anyone to consider us a ring chaser destination. Who could you add to our team that would have LMA or Blake or Drummond picking us? Hopefully that changes soon.

We are in a super rare NBA situation: A rebuild happened too fast.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#66 » by CelticsPride18 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:19 pm

Go after Beal in the offseason if that doesn’t work out just build the best roster you can around the Jays. At some point we need to give them some stability and stop with the star chasing.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#67 » by Patsfan1081 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:21 pm

Ernest wrote:
Spin Move wrote:You add KAT, he is the missing piece. It is unlikley that happens but with Brown and Tatum you want an inside out big who can score and rebound and draw the defense. Won't happen his first year as he needs to learn to play defense but if he become available you offer everything not named Tatum and Brown for him. Robert Williams, Smart, Nesmith, Langford 3 firsts.....probably won't be enough.But you get a big 3 and hope that the rest of the rotation comes in cheap...See what Brooklyn lucked into (btw they are winning the title this year) We need an All star Big, AD would be prefered but he is locked in with Lebron, so KAT is the next best thing.


You have the right idea: a big 3 that you can fill out the roster around them with ring chasers, cheap vets and a solid player or 2 on a rookie deal. The problem for now is Tatum and Brown are just to young for anyone to consider us a ring chaser destination. Who could you add to our team that would have LMA or Blake or Drummond picking us? Hopefully that changes soon.

We are in a super rare NBA situation: A rebuild happened too fast.


Too fast? I don’t know about this. Ainge brought in vets to win while develope but he really never pocked a lame and stuck with it so now he has a very unbalanced roster. But I don’t think the Jays developed to quickly, they just can’t seem to learn how to play the right way, they should have already with all the opportunities theyve had.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#68 » by JHTruth » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:26 pm

Spin Move wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
Rob easily has Gobert upside. Jokic is such an outlier its like getting struck by lightening. Most euros are massive busts.

We need to get that bigger guard that's a bucket. Like Kemba only bigger and healthy and we're set lol


I love Rob, but saying he easily has Gobert upside is awfully optimistic. Gobert is one of the most dominant defensive big men in modern nba history.

I think Rob is more Bam than Gobert. Which is an all star caliber player, and yes I stole that comparison from SmartWentCrazy.


Rob's best case scenario is a better rebounding Myles Turner. He is not an all star he (not saying he won't ever make one team but he will not be a real star) he is a very good role player like Marcus Smart, that is where he looks to end up I don't see him scoring more then 15 points a game ever but maybe he could be 15 pts 11 boards 4 assists 3 blocks and steal a game where he is a huge force on a winning team. Let's not go crazy though nothing to this pont has shown anything more then slightly above average offensive potential.


Gobert avgs 14.6 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 1.2 asst, and 3 blocks and he is an All-Star and the C on the team with the best record in the league.

If Rob avgs what you claimed he'd be a top 5 C with massive 2-way impact (which he has already). Do you really need KAT if you can get that?
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#69 » by JHTruth » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:28 pm

Spin Move wrote:You add KAT, he is the missing piece. It is unlikley that happens but with Brown and Tatum you want an inside out big who can score and rebound and draw the defense. Won't happen his first year as he needs to learn to play defense but if he become available you offer everything not named Tatum and Brown for him. Robert Williams, Smart, Nesmith, Langford 3 firsts.....probably won't be enough.But you get a big 3 and hope that the rest of the rotation comes in cheap...See what Brooklyn lucked into (btw they are winning the title this year) We need an All star Big, AD would be prefered but he is locked in with Lebron, so KAT is the next best thing.


Serious serious questions about KAT. Feature player on the worst team in the L. Bombed in the one playoff series he's been in. Report after report of laziness, doesn't care. KG couldn't stand him. Not sure he's the guy..
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#70 » by BK_2020 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:01 pm

JHTruth wrote:
Spin Move wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
I love Rob, but saying he easily has Gobert upside is awfully optimistic. Gobert is one of the most dominant defensive big men in modern nba history.

I think Rob is more Bam than Gobert. Which is an all star caliber player, and yes I stole that comparison from SmartWentCrazy.


Rob's best case scenario is a better rebounding Myles Turner. He is not an all star he (not saying he won't ever make one team but he will not be a real star) he is a very good role player like Marcus Smart, that is where he looks to end up I don't see him scoring more then 15 points a game ever but maybe he could be 15 pts 11 boards 4 assists 3 blocks and steal a game where he is a huge force on a winning team. Let's not go crazy though nothing to this pont has shown anything more then slightly above average offensive potential.


Gobert avgs 14.6 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 1.2 asst, and 3 blocks and he is an All-Star and the C on the team with the best record in the league.

If Rob avgs what you claimed he'd be a top 5 C with massive 2-way impact (which he has already). Do you really need KAT if you can get that?

Robert Williams's defensive on/off numbers place him in the lower 20% of the NBA players. He has a massive defensive impact, just not the good kind.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#71 » by JHTruth » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:26 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
Spin Move wrote:
Rob's best case scenario is a better rebounding Myles Turner. He is not an all star he (not saying he won't ever make one team but he will not be a real star) he is a very good role player like Marcus Smart, that is where he looks to end up I don't see him scoring more then 15 points a game ever but maybe he could be 15 pts 11 boards 4 assists 3 blocks and steal a game where he is a huge force on a winning team. Let's not go crazy though nothing to this pont has shown anything more then slightly above average offensive potential.


Gobert avgs 14.6 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 1.2 asst, and 3 blocks and he is an All-Star and the C on the team with the best record in the league.

If Rob avgs what you claimed he'd be a top 5 C with massive 2-way impact (which he has already). Do you really need KAT if you can get that?

Robert Williams's defensive on/off numbers place him in the lower 20% of the NBA players. He has a massive defensive impact, just not the good kind.


To be fair he's played most of his minutes with the worst defensive players on the team like Grant, PP, Teague, Semi, etc.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#72 » by Ernest » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:41 pm

Patsfan1081 wrote:
Ernest wrote:
Spin Move wrote:You add KAT, he is the missing piece. It is unlikley that happens but with Brown and Tatum you want an inside out big who can score and rebound and draw the defense. Won't happen his first year as he needs to learn to play defense but if he become available you offer everything not named Tatum and Brown for him. Robert Williams, Smart, Nesmith, Langford 3 firsts.....probably won't be enough.But you get a big 3 and hope that the rest of the rotation comes in cheap...See what Brooklyn lucked into (btw they are winning the title this year) We need an All star Big, AD would be prefered but he is locked in with Lebron, so KAT is the next best thing.


You have the right idea: a big 3 that you can fill out the roster around them with ring chasers, cheap vets and a solid player or 2 on a rookie deal. The problem for now is Tatum and Brown are just to young for anyone to consider us a ring chaser destination. Who could you add to our team that would have LMA or Blake or Drummond picking us? Hopefully that changes soon.

We are in a super rare NBA situation: A rebuild happened too fast.


Too fast? I don’t know about this. Ainge brought in vets to win while develope but he really never pocked a lame and stuck with it so now he has a very unbalanced roster. But I don’t think the Jays developed to quickly, they just can’t seem to learn how to play the right way, they should have already with all the opportunities theyve had.


Are you high?

I said too fast because after we traded off the KG era big 3, we had like one losing season. The reasonable expectation was we would be a bad team for at least 2-3 years. Probably more. IT came. Then Kyrie. Smart Brown and Tatum all were lotto hits that paid off quick. Rozier too.

We are playing with house money at this point. When we traded away KG and PP if you asked someone where we would be in 2021 they would probaly say about .500. No one would have said at .500 but 3 EFCs.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#73 » by grindtime22 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:33 pm

JHTruth wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
Gobert avgs 14.6 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 1.2 asst, and 3 blocks and he is an All-Star and the C on the team with the best record in the league.

If Rob avgs what you claimed he'd be a top 5 C with massive 2-way impact (which he has already). Do you really need KAT if you can get that?

Robert Williams's defensive on/off numbers place him in the lower 20% of the NBA players. He has a massive defensive impact, just not the good kind.


To be fair he's played most of his minutes with the worst defensive players on the team like Grant, PP, Teague, Semi, etc.


Teague and Ojeleye actually have good on/off defensive numbers. Ojeleye isn't that surprising. He is solid and if he is on the court, you are going away from the double big. Teague..... I don't know how to explain that.

Even if you play with lineups, it is hard to find a positive impact on the defensive end with Timelord. Pairing him with Tatum doesn't even do much. The eye test tells you good things are happening, but I don't think it is clear cut. Part of the problem is that our defensive rebounding plummets. It plummets and teams convert those offensive rebounds at astounding rates. This isn't a new problem for Timelord either. Guys get beat, Timelord challenges (over challenges at times), it leaves an easy offensive rebound putback.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#74 » by moonie_mcgee » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:22 am

Theocy wrote:
moonie_mcgee wrote:If Ainge is building around Tatum it would be malpractice to miss on Beal as he's the league's leading scorer, a pending FA, playing on a losing team, and is arguably Tatum's best friend.



I mean yes, that makes sense but there are 2 major issues there.

a) what do you do with Kemba - Kemba and Beal on paper are a lethal back court but in practice i doubt both fit in a roster. you probaby need a facilitator and a pass first PG and kemba isnt that.
b) how do you sign him - we clearly lack the monies. You most likely need a trade with Wizards and who do you send back ?

If the end game is Beal, Brown and Tatum with Timelord, Smart PP as supporting cast, i could live with that. Realistically speaking we're not a superteam though with that clearly not a title contender - just looks at the Harden, Kyrie, Durant trio . You'd still need Tatum to explode, and Williams to become a very very good post star.


Good points Theocy. I'm thinking Walker's production, and what he contributes, would be clearly unnecessary with the addition of Beal. So moving Walker would make perfect sense. Secondly, I'm not sure Brown is in the calculus. Ainge may choose Tatum, if he decides to roll with just one of our all-star forwards, and use Brown's sky high trade value to get that elite big man. For example, a Beal-Tatum-KAT trio could be a title favorite. I just hope Ainge has the sack to pull one more power play before he moves to the Villages.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#75 » by aussie_pride » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:36 am

grindtime22 wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Robert Williams's defensive on/off numbers place him in the lower 20% of the NBA players. He has a massive defensive impact, just not the good kind.


To be fair he's played most of his minutes with the worst defensive players on the team like Grant, PP, Teague, Semi, etc.


Teague and Ojeleye actually have good on/off defensive numbers. Ojeleye isn't that surprising. He is solid and if he is on the court, you are going away from the double big. Teague..... I don't know how to explain that.

Even if you play with lineups, it is hard to find a positive impact on the defensive end with Timelord. Pairing him with Tatum doesn't even do much. The eye test tells you good things are happening, but I don't think it is clear cut. Part of the problem is that our defensive rebounding plummets. It plummets and teams convert those offensive rebounds at astounding rates. This isn't a new problem for Timelord either. Guys get beat, Timelord challenges (over challenges at times), it leaves an easy offensive rebound putback.

This is not true. Robert Williams is actually 2nd on the team for keeping players to below their shot %; the best is Jaylen Brown who holds players to under 3.9% of their regular shot percentage. Robert Williams comes in at 2%. Also, Robert Williams is coming in at 10th in the league for contested rebound percentage; that suggests that even though his numbers may not be impressive he is 1) grabbing quality rebounds and 2) capable of playing physically. Another thing to consider that if guys are getting beat to the rebound then it is because they are failing to box out their man.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#76 » by moonie_mcgee » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:07 am

BK_2020 wrote:"Pass-first" PG is just a shorthand for PG that can't score.


What about Lonzo Ball? Dude is always pushing it up the floor and looking for teammates. Celts fans could unfortunately forgot what that looks like. Ball could easily score 20+ ppg if it was required.

Cool trivia: Tiny Archibald led the league in scoring AND assists in '71 with Kansas City.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#77 » by moonie_mcgee » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:31 am

Fierce1 wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Trade Jaylen


It's more complicated than that.

Fournier becomes a free-agent after this season ends.

Smart becomes a free-agent in the off-season of 2022.


I can see Smart not getting that 3rd contract withe the Cs as he'll be over 30 during it. Depends on what else happens I guess.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#78 » by Fierce1 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:32 am

moonie_mcgee wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:"Pass-first" PG is just a shorthand for PG that can't score.


What about Lonzo Ball? Dude is always pushing it up the floor and looking for teammates. Celts fans could unfortunately forgot what that looks like. Ball could easily score 20+ ppg if it was required.

Cool trivia: Tiny Archibald led the league in scoring AND assists in '71 with Kansas City.


For a Lonzo Ball to Boston scenario, it would have to be a sign and trade.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#79 » by Fierce1 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:33 am

moonie_mcgee wrote:I can see Smart not getting that 3rd contract withe the Cs as he'll be over 30 during it. Depends on what else happens I guess.


Smart needs to go after the season.

Celts will never win a championship if Smart is the leader of the Celtics.

Nothing will change as long as Smart is around.
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Re: Our road back to the top 

Post#80 » by moonie_mcgee » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:40 am

Bohemian wrote:The team has no roles, anybody steps in and shoots from wherever and it doesn´t matter if there is time left on the clock or not, let alone to check if there´s someone rebounding.

No attack system. No protection of the ball. No passing motion. Players stagnant.

In defense, they are clueless, even Smart looks lost. There is no grit, no sacrifice.

There are no vets to let the youngsters accountable.

The road back to the top would take dramatic changes.


That's on the coach. We'll it's on the players too but the coach sets the tone. Personally he seems to me as too wonky, too overly complicated, too reliant on his system, rather than letting his players play loose and to their strengths. It's really frustrating.
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