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Fire Brad Stevens.

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Ernest
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#41 » by Ernest » Fri Apr 2, 2021 8:48 am

aussie_pride wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:That's really a coach's #1 job in the NBA. Doc understood that. Brad may be a genius but if he can't get his players to consistently play in his genius system, then what good is it?

That is my no. 1 concern at the moment. It is either a case of Brad not knowing how to make best use of the players he has available or that the players are not listening to him and he has lost the respect of the locker room. Whatever the case, the status quo cannot be maintained. We either need to get rid of the coach or move on the main culprits. Generally speaking, in the modern NBA the coach always seems to be the fall guy as they are expendable; playing talent is a far more valuable commodity. That is why I admire a franchise like San Antonio the model they have in place where Gregg Popovich is judge, jury and executioner. He doesn't take c*** from any player and those who think they are bigger than the team get moved on!


Sure but that's just reading things into it. Maybe MAYBE there are serious locker room problems, but no one is reporting that. A more likely reason for .500 ball is out 2 best players are under 25, most of the team is on rookie deals, we've had lots of people out with injury and "health and safety" and we just made a few trades.

We are on our way to having what SA has. It's a chain really. The owners are solid and will spend to win. They brought in Ainge and let him guy a team that had just went to the ECF. They trust him and he's not going anywhere. Ainge had Doc leave because he was too good for rebuilding. So Ainge went out and found a coach that didn't have a big head. Ainge isn't going to blame Brad or fire Brad. And Brads not going to walk when he sees a better offer or when the team needs to rebuild. Ainge got the guy we wanted.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#42 » by aussie_pride » Fri Apr 2, 2021 9:06 am

Ernest wrote:
aussie_pride wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:That's really a coach's #1 job in the NBA. Doc understood that. Brad may be a genius but if he can't get his players to consistently play in his genius system, then what good is it?

That is my no. 1 concern at the moment. It is either a case of Brad not knowing how to make best use of the players he has available or that the players are not listening to him and he has lost the respect of the locker room. Whatever the case, the status quo cannot be maintained. We either need to get rid of the coach or move on the main culprits. Generally speaking, in the modern NBA the coach always seems to be the fall guy as they are expendable; playing talent is a far more valuable commodity. That is why I admire a franchise like San Antonio the model they have in place where Gregg Popovich is judge, jury and executioner. He doesn't take c*** from any player and those who think they are bigger than the team get moved on!


Sure but that's just reading things into it. Maybe MAYBE there are serious locker room problems, but no one is reporting that. A more likely reason for .500 ball is out 2 best players are under 25, most of the team is on rookie deals, we've had lots of people out with injury and "health and safety" and we just made a few trades.

We are on our way to having what SA has. It's a chain really. The owners are solid and will spend to win. They brought in Ainge and let him guy a team that had just went to the ECF. They trust him and he's not going anywhere. Ainge had Doc leave because he was too good for rebuilding. So Ainge went out and found a coach that didn't have a big head. Ainge isn't going to blame Brad or fire Brad. And Brads not going to walk when he sees a better offer or when the team needs to rebuild. Ainge got the guy we wanted.

Agreed there are definitely some mitigating circumstances. However, what I struggle to comprehend is the style of basketball we are playing, such as continually jacking up pull up threes on nights when they aren't falling. What about the number of iso plays and contested shots that the likes of Tatum and Jaylen Brown resort to? That is something that I thought I would never see in a Brad Stevens coached team and I cannot think of any reasons why Brad has let these guys get away with it for as long as they have. Age is no real excuse for not listening to your coach.

I don't think our model is the same as San Antonio has. Over there Greg Popovich controls everything basketball related and is President. He has a general manager who works under him, who I am assuming handles most of the administrative affairs. With us I am not sure how much say Brad Stevens has over trades, draft picks etc. I've always thought you need to give a coach everything that he wants otherwise he is just a patsy; General Managers are pretty much a useless position. With that being said, I am a massive fan of the European soccer team style of running a sports team.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#43 » by ParticleMan » Fri Apr 2, 2021 9:13 am

I don't think it's necessarily an issue of locker room problems. I think that would happen if Brad was telling them to do one thing but they all refused. I honestly think Brad has a system where he expects players to read and react in a way that best helps the team. He relies on players to understand the game and learn from their mistakes. We saw how he handled Tatum that one year where Tatum thought he was Kobe. Brad gave him a long leash, but then Tatum himself realized the next year that it didn't work. Now, that sort of long-term teaching is great when we have young developing kids. But it takes time, and we're no longer in the development phase. We aim to be competing for a title in the near future, so we don't have time for everyone to learn from their own mistakes. That's why Brad may not be the best fit anymore to coach this roster. I think a lot will depend on the exit interviews this year, whether Ainge feels like the team has learned from the debacle this year.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#44 » by Ill News » Fri Apr 2, 2021 9:16 am

Celts17Pride wrote:This forum is falling apart

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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#45 » by poopship » Fri Apr 2, 2021 9:44 am

I'm not gonna be mad if Brad is fired but I think maybe making some moves in the off-season to get toughness and vet leadership is the first remedy to try and fix this issue with young star players not playing the right way. Easier said than done of course and we like our guys, you know.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#46 » by Drax » Fri Apr 2, 2021 10:26 am

ParticleMan wrote:Brad isn't getting fired midseason; he deserves better and frankly this season is lost anyways. But I agree if this team doesn't have a miraculous turnaround fairly soon and start playing the sort of ball that got them to 3 ECFs in the last 4 years, Brad has to take the fall. The players are here, especially our core guys, they aren't going anywhere. And they have talent, we've seen it. But Brad is the guy who is responsible for getting the most out of players, and getting them to play together. That's really a coach's #1 job in the NBA. Doc understood that. Brad may be a genius but if he can't get his players to consistently play in his genius system, then what good is it?


That's what is frustrating me the most, currently. Brad has in the past shown the ability to do just that.

He overcoached a crap team with barely talent in the 2013/14 season to the #6 pick instead of a top3 pick. Same the following season (14/15) triggering Danny to get more help for a play off push at the deadline by trading for IT. He got Evan Turner the $70 million dollar deal the following offseason (2016).

Brad Stevens got more talent over the years, with different personalities.

2016 offseason: Horford (model Brad Stevens player, great personality and team first mentality embodied), Brown (great personality and work ethic, questional fit for Brads play style)
2017 offseason: Hayward (Brad Stevens poster child, great personality and mostly team first mentality), Irving (great talent, but doesn't fit Brad at all), Morris (bad lockerroom influence and exact opposite of Brads playstyle), Tatum (great talent and personality, bad habbits on the court), Theis (model Brad Stevens player, lacks talent but team first), Baynes (Stevens personality, perfect role player)
2018 offseason: R. Williams (talented player, unpolished in every way), Wannamaker (good personality, bad fit)
2019 offseason: Walker (great personality, mediocre on court fit), Kanter (great personality, bad on court fit)
2020 offseason: Thompson (hard worker, bad on court fit), Teague (solid dude, bad fit)

What i'm trying to say is, Ainge got mostly good character over the years and often more talented players aswell.

But recently talent has gotten worse and the type of players Stevens likes got even fewer. And the few talent players we have are surrounded by bad fit on court for Brads prefered system. If you look at our current roster who'd you call unselfish and doesn't have bad habbits on offense? In the rotation right now probably only Rob Williams and a lesser degree Pritchard. Additionally we don't have any spare defenders anymore we got rid of most + defenders and replaced them by worse players.

If i had to play the blame game its: 50% Danny, 25% Brad, 25% players
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#47 » by Triple7 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 10:29 am

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Fire this clown already!

Seriously, he needs to go. This has gone long enough. We have seen Brad has been stubborn, and will never adapt or change his style. Time to go!
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#48 » by celtics543 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 11:12 am

Brad's style worked for teams to overachieve. I'm out on Brad but I think I'm more out on Jayson Kobe Tatum. Not sure what Brad's supposed to do when his best player just decides he's not going to pass the ball. Not like he can actually threaten to bench him when the alternative is Grant Williams or Romeo "Mystery Man" Langford.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#49 » by Red2 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 11:25 am

This season is lost so how do we get better next year ? I dont think Brad deserves to be fired but we need a change and it’s easier to fire one coach than change the entire roster. I wish we weren’t so dependent on the 3 ball. If theres one part of brad’s system i would criticize that would b it . We need more post play and drives to the badket. We need to get to the line more. We need a couple of physical tough players who are willing to take punishment down low but also dish it on the defensive end . I would love to see us run more and fast bresk more . Kemba has to go and in his place we need a guard with size who can create
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#50 » by jirrit » Fri Apr 2, 2021 11:55 am

He’s such a boring coach. What are we missing? Fire. Has Stevens ever given ‘fire’ besides to a team of overachievers? Overachieving is all he’s good for and I respect him for that but this team needs a coach who can handle stars and Stevens simply cant.

I used to play Football Manager (soccer manager for you Americans) with teams from the lowest division. As soon as I reached the top I needed a new challenge and I would leave my team to start up something new. Stevens is that kinda dude. We tried but nope we never really got there. We always lost our ECFS, we always come back but still lose. I’m tired of it.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#51 » by Triple7 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 12:32 pm

jirrit wrote:He’s such a boring coach. What are we missing? Fire. Has Stevens ever given ‘fire’ besides to a team of overachievers? Overachieving is all he’s good for and I respect him for that but this team needs a coach who can handle stars and Stevens simply cant.

I used to play Football Manager (soccer manager for you Americans) with teams from the lowest division. As soon as I reached the top I needed a new challenge and I would leave my team to start up something new. Stevens is that kinda dude. We tried but nope we never really got there. We always lost our ECFS, we always come back but still lose. I’m tired of it.


Exactly! It’s like you can actually predict his game plan, his starting lineup, his rotations, his offense. It’s so boring and predictable. Teams already plan for it, and he rarely change his style. It’s not like he has a top defensive system in place, which he doesn’t. Our defense is as worse as our offense this season. Players are not motivated at all. This guys need a leader, and Brad ain’t it, and he would never be one. He should just coach a rebuilding team, or just go back to college.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#52 » by Drax » Fri Apr 2, 2021 12:49 pm

Triple7 wrote:Exactly! It’s like you can actually predict his game plan. His starting lineup, his rotations, his offense. It’s so boring and predictable. Teams already plan for it, and he rarely change his style. It’s not like he has a top defensive system in place, which he doesn’t. Our defense is as worse as our offense this season. Players are not motivated at all. This guys need a leader, and Brad ain’t it, and he would never be one. He should just coach a rebuilding team, or just go back to college.


Really? Where does this notion come from? If you want to say Brad is an aweful offensive coach, i won't argue. But defense, we had pretty good defense these past 8 years. With emphasis on transition D and three point defending, exactly what you need in todays NBA. If our defense sucks that's either lack of execution the gameplan or our players straight are garbage defenders. The system is fine.

Defense is 100% on players. Offense though, critics are fine to complain.
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WE WILL

- Sprint to set OUR defense
- Execute OUR defense with multiple efforts to completion
- Be TOUGH with the ball
- Play unselfishly with pace & space to get great shots
- Dominate effort plays
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#53 » by druggas » Fri Apr 2, 2021 12:50 pm

greenroom31 wrote:Well-coached teams play hard and play together. They’re mentally tough and they play good defense. Players know their roles and compete.

Take Brooklyn tonight as an example. No Harden or Durant (or Blake), integrating a new player in Aldridge. Their bench played great — tons of hustle, everyone who came in moved the ball, had energy and was decisive.

How does that compare to the Celtics? Ask yourself: is the problem that every player on the team is selfish, low-energy and iso-prone? Or maybe it’s the coach’s fault.

We have a culture problem. It’s not one guy, it’s everyone... and it’s not like these are a bunch of bad apples. We can replace every player on the team, or we can find a new coach. I’m going with the latter.

Don't give credit to Nash, D'Antoni makes that offense hum. Boston could use an offensive coach like him.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#54 » by itrsteve » Fri Apr 2, 2021 12:59 pm

Assistant coach that can get in their asses, it's that easy. We need a vocal leader that the kids respect.

Evan Turner isn't yelling at anybody.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#55 » by JediMasterRevan » Fri Apr 2, 2021 1:26 pm

I am on board with firing brad.

100%

Poor rotations, plays favorites, zeronplayer accountability
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#56 » by GoCeltics123 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 1:33 pm

Guys give up the KG dream. He has already said publicly that he never wants to coach.
We can be a really good team for 12-18 minutes per game.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#57 » by CeltsfaninDC » Fri Apr 2, 2021 1:50 pm

The Comedian wrote:
Statlanta wrote:The team has regressed twice in the Jay's prime and now that Kyrie Irving is no longer the scapegoat this is what you have?

How about dealing with the reality that players and teams can regress?


23/24 is a few years away from most players prime, so pretty amazing that this is somehow the second time the team has regressed in their prime.

Bring better.


I've said this over and over here, but this team is just too young right now and we need patience in all areas including coaching. I think a better solution to firing Brad is to find some additional quality Asst Coaches since we've lost at least two that I know of and I'm not sure what ET is bringing to the table right now. Find a guy like Thibs who ran the D for Doc, but an offensive version. Similar to a Josh to help Bellichick run the O.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#58 » by LoquaciousLarry » Fri Apr 2, 2021 1:56 pm

i don't think many coaches could do better with this group of trash than Brad has. Be patient with him, he has earned it. Ainge needs to take a hard look in the mirror as far as his talent evaluation.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#59 » by BK_2020 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 2:23 pm

The team takes 90% of its shots from the three or in the paint and of course people come out the wood works whining about shot selection.
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Re: Fire Brad Stevens. 

Post#60 » by robdog_5 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 3:40 pm

Brad is a great coach. I think the issues are more with the guys not executing. But ultimately if the players tune out the coach then it's over. You change the coach or players. I'm not sure that's the case.

I have 2 schools of thought I go back and forth with.

#1 I just want them to not make playoffs. Get a better pick add another asset.

#2 I want them go get in playoffs as 5 seed vs Miami. I would like to see Brad get another shot at Miami in playoffs. I think in playoffs with games spread a bit more you would have more time to gameplan and practice.

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