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The Fournier Future

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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#41 » by greenroom31 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:23 pm

If we re-sign Fournier and don't trade Kemba or Smart we will have the following guys to find minutes for next year (barring injuries, which seem pretty likely given this crew):

Kemba / Smart / Pritchard
Fournier / Romeo / Nesmith

From a minutes breakdown it would probably look like:

PG: Kemba (28), Pritchard (12), Smart (8)
SG: Smart (22), Fournier (20), Romeo/Nesmith (6)
SF: Jaylen (32), Fournier (10), Romeo/Nesmith (6)
PF: Tatum (34), Semi/Grant (12), Jaylen (2)
C: RW3 (28), TT (12), Kornet (8)

Totals:
Tatum: 34
Jaylen: 34
Fournier: 30
Smart: 30
Kemba: 28
RW3: 28
Pritchard: 12
TT: 12
Romeo/Nesmith: 12
Semi/Grant: 12
Kornet: 8


That's an 11 man rotation assuming everyone stays healthy. 1 of Romeo or Nesmith and 1 of Semi and Grant wouldn't play (probably Semi since he'll be a FA anyway), so the odd man out would be either Romeo or Nesmith.

Biggest roster weaknesses are backup SF/PF, true stretch 5 (if Kornet isn't reliable), true starting PG. I'd actually like to see Smart / Fournier / Jaylen / Tatum / RW3 as a unit with Kemba off the bench but doubt that Brad would do it.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#42 » by cloverleaf » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:39 pm

greenroom31 wrote:If we re-sign Fournier and don't trade Kemba or Smart we will have the following guys to find minutes for next year (barring injuries, which seem pretty likely given this crew):

Kemba / Smart / Pritchard
Fournier / Romeo / Nesmith

From a minutes breakdown it would probably look like:

PG: Kemba (28), Pritchard (12), Smart (8)
SG: Smart (22), Fournier (20), Romeo/Nesmith (6)
SF: Jaylen (32), Fournier (10), Romeo/Nesmith (6)
PF: Tatum (34), Semi/Grant (12), Jaylen (2)
C: RW3 (28), TT (12), Kornet (8)

Totals:
Tatum: 34
Jaylen: 34
Fournier: 30
Smart: 30
Kemba: 28
RW3: 28
Pritchard: 12
TT: 12
Romeo/Nesmith: 12
Semi/Grant: 12
Kornet: 8


That's an 11 man rotation assuming everyone stays healthy. 1 of Romeo or Nesmith and 1 of Semi and Grant wouldn't play (probably Semi since he'll be a FA anyway), so the odd man out would be either Romeo or Nesmith.

Biggest roster weaknesses are backup SF/PF, true stretch 5 (if Kornet isn't reliable), true starting PG. I'd actually like to see Smart / Fournier / Jaylen / Tatum / RW3 as a unit with Kemba off the bench but doubt that Brad would do it.


I think their best lineup would have JT up at the 4 with Rob at the 5, but there are bound to be more changes. Thompson IMO will likely to traded. They'll probably add a beefier backup 4/5. One of Kemba or Smart could well be gone plays the right way through the end of the year and wants to stay, they could well work that out. And will they be able to re-sign Fournier without finishing this season with him in the starting lineup? Probably only if they really load up on minutes and shots for him in his 6th-man role. But in that situation, he could well feel like Hayward, that he doesn't want to sign up for a repeat of that position for his next contract.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#43 » by 31to6 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:22 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Fourier isn't quite as good all around as Hayward, but he's not bad-- and he's a better shooter than Hayward.


Hayward was overqualified for his role with us.
Fournier may be just right for it.

Killed me when GH would get a wide open 3 and clank it.
As long as Evan keeps making all of his attempts, I think we’ll like him!
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#44 » by Ernest » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:39 pm

I'm not a stats guy but it feels like Fournier hit more 3s in the last 2 games than Hayward did his whole time here.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#45 » by sportfan6197 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:52 pm

Fournier is not an elite shooter but he’s far more consistent than a Hayward


In 7 of his 9 seasons he’s shot between 38-41% from 3 (and that 41% is his rookie year with least minutes)


2 other years in Orlando he floated at 35% when they were the worst offense in the league.


A lot of the “good” shooters have huge fluctuations over seasons, I think it’s a big positive than Evan doesn’t
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#46 » by bisme37 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 5:01 pm

sportfan6197 wrote:Fournier is not an elite shooter but he’s far more consistent than a Hayward


In 7 of his 9 seasons he’s shot between 38-41% from 3 (and that 41% is his rookie year with least minutes)


2 other years in Orlando he floated at 35% when they were the worst offense in the league.


A lot of the “good” shooters have huge fluctuations over seasons, I think it’s a big positive than Evan doesn’t


Plus Evan went up against a lot of top defenders in Orlando on account of no one else on that team could score.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#47 » by JHTruth » Mon Apr 5, 2021 5:13 pm

31to6 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Fourier isn't quite as good all around as Hayward, but he's not bad-- and he's a better shooter than Hayward.


Hayward was overqualified for his role with us.
Fournier may be just right for it.

Killed me when GH would get a wide open 3 and clank it.
As long as Evan keeps making all of his attempts, I think we’ll like him!


Fournier to me is equal to Hayward overall. Hayward was often passive, not sure what he should be doing.

Fournier is almost as skilled but without all the mental baggage of Hayward in Boston where there was always armchair psychology going on. Fournier is an upgrade over Hayward at this point on their careers
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#48 » by Hal14 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 5:15 pm

RickyDizzle wrote:
LoquaciousLarry wrote:I gave the move a D. I like Fournier as a player but don't understand the model of team building. The Celtics continue to use all of their assets to acquire SG's. I felt this was the proper time to unload Smart.

If they lock up Fournier long term, they'll have to find a way to consolidate the roster. Smart heads into his contract year next year and with so much money tied into the position, I can't see both being on the roster next year.

Whether moving one or a few of Smart, Langford, Nesmith, Carsen Edwards, or JB they have an obsession with SG's while neglecting the Power Forward position. I don't think Evan has Gordons ability to defend, rebound and may be a step or two below Hayward as a playmaker but he's definitely a good player.

I didn't think Fournier addressed their biggest needs and is a bit redundant if they expect Langford and Nesmith to be players in the big picture. If they both suck, I guess I should give this a better grade and continue to be disappointed in Ainge's drafting. Fournier adds another ball handler capable in the pick and roll and a floor spacer. He immediately becomes our 4th best player (JB, JT, RW).

I didn't like losing Theis and Teague for two cans in Kornet and Wagner.

To me, Ainge did well as a last resort to do something at the deadline in acquiring Fournier, but I'm hard pressed to think he was Bostons #1 target and they continue to make middling moves. This move was enough to make the playoffs but not to contend. What I would have given a C became a D when losing a starting caliber player (Theis) for two guys that should be in the G League.


Fournier for a couple 2nds when we have a deep bench of a million late 1st and 2nd round guys that generally need to be consolidated anyway was solid. Adding Jeff Teague into that deal was good too. He had 3 good games all year and Id rather Pritchard or someone else get his time.

Good move but not without risk. If Fournier plays a couple months and there is no deep playoff run... He likely goes to the highest bidder with no particular allegience to the celtics. If he builds some chemistry, feels valued, and views us as a positive winning environment, he may stick around.

Now... The Theis deal. I get it we needed to get under the tax... But Theis is a good player, fit well, and other playoff teams should have wanted to him. I find it hard to believe the deal wasnt rushed and their wasnt something better out there. Kornet and Wagner? No 2nds even!? I wouldve thought Theis plus our 2nd couldve gotten a late first from a playoff team. That was bad. I also value Theis's bird rights. Lets say we unload Kemba in the offseason, resigning Theis as a rotational big wouldve been great.

The move I wouldve liked to see was trading Thompson and minor assets Ojeyele, Edwards, a 2nd to anyone that would take it for nothing or an expiring deal.

Then you keep Theis and sign him to Thompsons money next year....

Obviously Ainge would have rather traded Thompson and not Theis. Theis is younger, better chemistry with the team, cheaper contract and overall having a slightly better season. But that's exactly why. no team wanted to trade for Thompson - but there was a team willing to trade for Theis. You can't just snap your fingers and trade Thompson instead of Theis, it's not that easy. You need the other team to actually agree to the deal.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#49 » by Hal14 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 5:18 pm

JHTruth wrote:
31to6 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Fourier isn't quite as good all around as Hayward, but he's not bad-- and he's a better shooter than Hayward.


Hayward was overqualified for his role with us.
Fournier may be just right for it.

Killed me when GH would get a wide open 3 and clank it.
As long as Evan keeps making all of his attempts, I think we’ll like him!


Fournier to me is equal to Hayward overall. Hayward was often passive, not sure what he should be doing.

Fournier is almost as skilled but without all the mental baggage of Hayward in Boston where there was always armchair psychology going on. Fournier is an upgrade over Hayward at this point on their careers

I think Hayward is overall a slightly better player (better rebounder, better passer) but when you factor in Hayward being more injury prone, 3 years older, on a MUCH more expensive contract, and willingness to to take on a lesser role, Fournier is the preferred guy for this team.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#50 » by sam_I_am » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:26 pm

31to6 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Fourier isn't quite as good all around as Hayward, but he's not bad-- and he's a better shooter than Hayward.


Hayward was overqualified for his role with us.
Fournier may be just right for it.

Killed me when GH would get a wide open 3 and clank it.
As long as Evan keeps making all of his attempts, I think we’ll like him!


If Fournier is open for a second at 3 pt line he’s letting it rip. He will never head fake away the open look to drive for a midrange shot. He may not be the defender or rebounder that GH is but defenders stick to him like glue and that is opening up the floor for everybody. I have no problem with team paying him. I think there was too much pressure on GH here with leaving Utah, getting hurt many times, getting shade from teammates when he got starter minutes when he wasn’t 100% etc. Fournier is just fun for team and fans alike.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#51 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:32 pm

5 years, $100 million. Find a way to dump Kemba, and give some of his money to Timelord.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#52 » by ddb » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:38 pm

Fournier is a good fit in Boston. If his number isn't too crazy then I would look to lock him up. If he prefers to start then Boston isn't the place for him, but if he embraces the 6th man role he can win 6th Man of the Year awards while playing for really good Celtics teams moving forward.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#53 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:38 pm

bisme37 wrote:I really want his nickname to be The Fournicator.


Done. I’ve floated it out onto WCT. This has to happen.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#54 » by JHTruth » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:42 pm

ddb wrote:Fournier is a good fit in Boston. If his number isn't too crazy then I would look to lock him up. If he prefers to start then Boston isn't the place for him, but if he embraces the 6th man role he can win 6th Man of the Year awards while playing for really good Celtics teams moving forward.


Don't see him signing up for 6th man role. They are going to move Kemba and extend Rob and resign Fournier. Probably move TT if they can.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#55 » by playa-hater » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:56 pm

greenroom31 wrote:If we re-sign Fournier and don't trade Kemba or Smart we will have the following guys to find minutes for next year (barring injuries, which seem pretty likely given this crew):

Kemba / Smart / Pritchard
Fournier / Romeo / Nesmith

From a minutes breakdown it would probably look like:

PG: Kemba (28), Pritchard (12), Smart (8)
SG: Smart (22), Fournier (20), Romeo/Nesmith (6)
SF: Jaylen (32), Fournier (10), Romeo/Nesmith (6)
PF: Tatum (34), Semi/Grant (12), Jaylen (2)
C: RW3 (28), TT (12), Kornet (8)

Totals:
Tatum: 34
Jaylen: 34
Fournier: 30
Smart: 30
Kemba: 28
RW3: 28
Pritchard: 12
TT: 12
Romeo/Nesmith: 12
Semi/Grant: 12
Kornet: 8


That's an 11 man rotation assuming everyone stays healthy. 1 of Romeo or Nesmith and 1 of Semi and Grant wouldn't play (probably Semi since he'll be a FA anyway), so the odd man out would be either Romeo or Nesmith.

Biggest roster weaknesses are backup SF/PF, true stretch 5 (if Kornet isn't reliable), true starting PG. I'd actually like to see Smart / Fournier / Jaylen / Tatum / RW3 as a unit with Kemba off the bench but doubt that Brad would do it.


all of this and a potential teen/20 level first RD pick.. I see a 12 man rotation coming.. :o :-?
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#56 » by Hal14 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:12 pm

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:5 years, $100 million. Find a way to dump Kemba, and give some of his money to Timelord.

Not realistic.

Kemba is arguably the worst, most overpriced contract in the NBA. No one is going to trade for him. He's still got another 2 years left on it after this one at ascending $, $36 mil next year and $38 mil the year after that. That type of $ for a guy with bad knees, can't play 2nd night of back to backs, can't play defense and is on the wrong side of 30 years old.

You do the best you can with Kemba as the starting PG until his contract runs out - after all, he's not all bad, really good team chemistry guy, positive vibes on the team, a solid 3rd scoring option getting you 17/18 a game, still has a couple more good years left and last night made one of the best passes I've seen in awhile with that insane kick out to Brown while being defended under the basket by 3 guys.

Then in the 2023 offseason when Kemba's. contract is up, you have 2 choices:
a) Let Kemba walk as a free agent
b) resign him for only like $6-$8 mil a year, maybe a 2 year contract?

Either way, Kemba is no longer the starting PG. You promote Pritchard to be starting PG (grooming him to take over the job between now and then) and you've got over $30 mil coming off the books with Kemba's contract all done. You can use that $30 mil to sign an all-star free agent.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#57 » by ParticleMan » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:53 pm

a big reason for staying out of the tax this year is to avoid the repeater. but that means next year we can go into the tax. i'd love to dump kemba but it's not realistic. maybe if we added a pick and took back horford in return... which i'd be happy to do, but that wouldn't save much salary. i'd keep Fournier for 4/80 if he keeps playing like he has.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#58 » by JHTruth » Mon Apr 5, 2021 9:15 pm

ParticleMan wrote:a big reason for staying out of the tax this year is to avoid the repeater. but that means next year we can go into the tax. i'd love to dump kemba but it's not realistic. maybe if we added a pick and took back horford in return... which i'd be happy to do, but that wouldn't save much salary. i'd keep Fournier for 4/80 if he keeps playing like he has.


Kemba is completely dumpable. He's still a really good player, he's just an ill-fit on our squad now. Trading him for depth is the course of action they should/will take..
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#59 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Mon Apr 5, 2021 9:19 pm

Hal14 wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:5 years, $100 million. Find a way to dump Kemba, and give some of his money to Timelord.

Not realistic.

Kemba is arguably the worst, most overpriced contract in the NBA. No one is going to trade for him. He's still got another 2 years left on it after this one at ascending $, $36 mil next year and $38 mil the year after that. That type of $ for a guy with bad knees, can't play 2nd night of back to backs, can't play defense and is on the wrong side of 30 years old.

You do the best you can with Kemba as the starting PG until his contract runs out - after all, he's not all bad, really good team chemistry guy, positive vibes on the team, a solid 3rd scoring option getting you 17/18 a game, still has a couple more good years left and last night made one of the best passes I've seen in awhile with that insane kick out to Brown while being defended under the basket by 3 guys.

Then in the 2023 offseason when Kemba's. contract is up, you have 2 choices:
a) Let Kemba walk as a free agent
b) resign him for only like $6-$8 mil a year, maybe a 2 year contract?

Either way, Kemba is no longer the starting PG. You promote Pritchard to be starting PG (grooming him to take over the job between now and then) and you've got over $30 mil coming off the books with Kemba's contract all done. You can use that $30 mil to sign an all-star free agent.


Not realistic is thinking that Pritchard is a starting PG. Any team who starts Pritchard at PG is not a contender. He is a career backup, even though I really like the kid.
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Re: The Fournier Future 

Post#60 » by Curmudgeon » Mon Apr 5, 2021 9:33 pm

Hal14 wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:5 years, $100 million. Find a way to dump Kemba, and give some of his money to Timelord.

Not realistic.

Kemba is arguably the worst, most overpriced contract in the NBA. No one is going to trade for him.


I bet you could trade him for Al Horford if you threw in a small sweetner. I'd also keep my eye on Dennis Schroeder, who reportedly turned down a max extension from the Lakers. Kemba and an unprotected pick for a resigned and traded Schroeder. Kemba and LeBron can retire together.
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