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New rotations going forward!?!?

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Re: New rotations going forward!?!? 

Post#21 » by playa-hater » Tue May 4, 2021 4:20 pm

ballup wrote:
playa-hater wrote:I don't now if Nesmith could stay out of Foul trouble for long, but I would Love Nesmith to play 30+ min per game. His energy and production are unreal since Stevens finally gave him a chance 3 games ago. that and his FIT with everyone is near flawless.
You know that's mathematically impossible unless there's an injury or you're cutting major minutes from Fournier/Pritchard



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Too lazy to make the mathematics work right now, but since we are speaking mathematics, there is a 98.8 % probability that Boston will not be injury free. Sooo Nesmith gets his 30 :wink:
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Re: New rotations going forward!?!? 

Post#22 » by Ernest » Tue May 4, 2021 6:21 pm

Hal14 wrote:
Ernest wrote:It is interesting that Waters has got some minutes as of late. He may have overtaken Edwards as the break in case of emergency point guard.

Waters has been the emergency PG all year, getting the PG mins behind Kemba/Smart/Pritchard/Teague when he was here. Edwards can't play PG, he's a SG. Edwards has gotten the emergency SG mins all year..


I guess but I doubt pg vs sg really matters anymore let alone for the deep bench guys. For either on of them to play we'd need 2 of Kemba Smart and PP to be out. Maybe 3.

Even if all 3 wen't down, you could still have basically anyone on the team other than TT and RWill taking the ball up and starting the offense. It's not like we (or any team) is running complex plays where lots of things are happening before the first pass. It's a pass to a wing and then a pick set for him or an iso.

(Sadly) the traditional pg role has really started to disappear in today's game.
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Re: New rotations going forward!?!? 

Post#23 » by Hal14 » Tue May 4, 2021 6:59 pm

Ernest wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
Ernest wrote:It is interesting that Waters has got some minutes as of late. He may have overtaken Edwards as the break in case of emergency point guard.

Waters has been the emergency PG all year, getting the PG mins behind Kemba/Smart/Pritchard/Teague when he was here. Edwards can't play PG, he's a SG. Edwards has gotten the emergency SG mins all year..


I guess but I doubt pg vs sg really matters anymore let alone for the deep bench guys. For either on of them to play we'd need 2 of Kemba Smart and PP to be out. Maybe 3.

Even if all 3 wen't down, you could still have basically anyone on the team other than TT and RWill taking the ball up and starting the offense. It's not like we (or any team) is running complex plays where lots of things are happening before the first pass. It's a pass to a wing and then a pick set for him or an iso.

(Sadly) the traditional pg role has really started to disappear in today's game.

Agreed that the PG role is not what it used to be. And also agree that positions matter a little bit less for guys that far down the bench.

But, one thing that hasn't changed is the PG needs to be able to bring the ball up the court and set up / initiate the offense, often having to do so against tough defensive pressure. Edwards trying that do that, scares the sh^t out of me. Waters doing that is much less scary. Then again, if I need a guy to come in, not play the point but instead play off the ball and try coming in for a few mins and give us some instant offense off the bench, maybe hit a few quick shots - then Edwards is the guy I'm putting in and not Waters. They're just different types of players..both really small, but Waters has shown to be less of a liability on D with his scrappiness on that end of the floor..
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Re: New rotations going forward!?!? 

Post#24 » by cloverleaf » Thu May 6, 2021 12:52 pm

Yeah, it was in garbage time against a JV team last night, but still--Tacko with blocks on 4 straight defensive possessions!

I really think Brad missed an opportunity to put him in as a run stopper all year. There sure were a lot of runs that could have used some stopping this season and his presence down there does force opponents to think and alter their approach. With that added game experience, he might have proven to have more general change-of-pace value, particularly against the big, beefy centers they otherwise have no answer for. (He's at +21.5 per 100 possessions on the year, with some of his best appearances in his rare non-garbage use.)
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Re: New rotations going forward!?!? 

Post#25 » by Ernest » Thu May 6, 2021 4:42 pm

cloverleaf wrote:Yeah, it was in garbage time against a JV team last night, but still--Tacko with blocks on 4 straight defensive possessions!

I really think Brad missed an opportunity to put him in as a run stopper all year. There sure were a lot of runs that could have used some stopping this season and his presence down there does force opponents to think and alter their approach. With that added game experience, he might have proven to have more general change-of-pace value, particularly against the big, beefy centers they otherwise have no answer for. (He's at +21.5 per 100 possessions on the year, with some of his best appearances in his rare non-garbage use.)


I'm sure all coaches miss things. I don't think you miss the 8 foot tall guy. If there was anyway he could have possibly been good enough to play rotation minutes all year they would have found it. The upside of him just getting to average on different skills is huge. But he would just get killed out there. Sad but true. I think he had 1 real game where with injuries he played real meaningful NBA minutes. And he did ok. I still think he would just get killed and there is no possible way he could have been playing all year.
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Re: New rotations going forward!?!? 

Post#26 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri May 7, 2021 1:29 pm

Let's see if we can even come up with minutes allocations we'd agree make sense. Rounding everything to a multiple of 6, and assuming playoff workloads, that could start with:

36 Tatum
36 Brown
30 Walker
30 Fournier
30 Smart
24 RobWill
24 Thompson

That leaves 30 to be split between Nesmith and Pritchard. If one of the 30-minute guys is out, split his minutes among the other 2 plus Nesmith and Pritchard. If more than one of them is, or a Jay is, we're screwed anyway.

Other front court guys can get run situationally.

Obviously, this is all approximate; at least Tatum (currently healthier than Brown) would likely play a little more than 36 minutes. But basically it all kind of fits.
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Re: New rotations going forward!?!? 

Post#27 » by cloverleaf » Fri May 7, 2021 1:36 pm

Ernest wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:Yeah, it was in garbage time against a JV team last night, but still--Tacko with blocks on 4 straight defensive possessions!

I really think Brad missed an opportunity to put him in as a run stopper all year. There sure were a lot of runs that could have used some stopping this season and his presence down there does force opponents to think and alter their approach. With that added game experience, he might have proven to have more general change-of-pace value, particularly against the big, beefy centers they otherwise have no answer for. (He's at +21.5 per 100 possessions on the year, with some of his best appearances in his rare non-garbage use.)


I'm sure all coaches miss things. I don't think you miss the 8 foot tall guy. If there was anyway he could have possibly been good enough to play rotation minutes all year they would have found it. The upside of him just getting to average on different skills is huge. But he would just get killed out there. Sad but true. I think he had 1 real game where with injuries he played real meaningful NBA minutes. And he did ok. I still think he would just get killed and there is no possible way he could have been playing all year.


I disagree with you. Certainly with the "no possible way" statement. I also discovered last night a clip of Perk on nbcsportsboston noting how the impact of Tacko on the court has been positive whenever he's been put in to play. I think Perk has a pretty good understanding of the NBC center role.
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Re: New rotations going forward!?!? 

Post#28 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri May 7, 2021 2:05 pm

As for adjacencies and separations:
-- If we're going with max talent, then the Jays are the only PFs, so one should be on the floor at all times. (There are other reasons too.)
-- Walker and Fournier seem to be hitting it off, and probably should play together as much as possible.
-- Kemba should also get the best roll man, i.e. Rob. That also gets him the best defensive eraser.

That's most of what I've got.
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Re: New rotations going forward!?!? 

Post#29 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat May 8, 2021 3:39 am

Grant and TT were by far our two most effective healthy centers tonight, which would put them top 3 on the team overall along with Rob. Luke isn't living up to his early success with us.
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Re: New rotations going forward!?!? 

Post#30 » by cloverleaf » Sat May 8, 2021 4:21 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:Grant and TT were by far our two most effective healthy centers tonight, which would put them top 3 on the team overall along with Rob. Luke isn't living up to his early success with us.


An unfortunate night for Tacko.
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Re: New rotations going forward!?!? 

Post#31 » by playa-hater » Sun May 9, 2021 1:59 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:Grant and TT were by far our two most effective healthy centers tonight, which would put them top 3 on the team overall along with Rob. Luke isn't living up to his early success with us.


Not sure I understand this. If looking at a review of the game and only looking at all opportunities offensively, defensively and rebounding for what each of TT Luke and Grant did in every opportunity that was presented. Luke actually did badly except miss his only shot, a 3 and allowed Vuc to score once while in comparison TT continued to force shots not pass, get beat on the glass repeatedly and almost never stepped out of the lane to oppose shooters.. Grant was regularly beaten off the dribble and may have only once or twice guarded a center.

If I missed anything please provide, but Kornet while not great for sure was at least not as horrible as TT and Grant.
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Re: New rotations going forward!?!? 

Post#32 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun May 9, 2021 2:41 am

playa-hater wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:Grant and TT were by far our two most effective healthy centers tonight, which would put them top 3 on the team overall along with Rob. Luke isn't living up to his early success with us.


Not sure I understand this. If looking at a review of the game and only looking at all opportunities offensively, defensively and rebounding for what each of TT Luke and Grant did in every opportunity that was presented. Luke actually did badly except miss his only shot, a 3 and allowed Vuc to score once while in comparison TT continued to force shots not pass, get beat on the glass repeatedly and almost never stepped out of the lane to oppose shooters.. Grant was regularly beaten off the dribble and may have only once or twice guarded a center.

If I missed anything please provide, but Kornet while not great for sure was at least not as horrible as TT and Grant.


Traditional big men, when playing the perimeter, do little to actually stop an opponent from driving. Rather, they stay with them and hope to bother the shot. Grant plays more like a traditional perimeter defender; he's harder to get by, but if you do get by him he won't bother your shot any further.

Against the Bulls, whether defending a man or just generally guarding the paint, Luke seemed to backpedal against drives without offering much resistance to the driver's eventual shot.

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