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Game Thread: Trail Blazers (35-28) @ Celtics (34-30) – 7:30PM, Sun. 05-02-21

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Re: Game Thread: Trail Blazers (35-28) @ Celtics (34-30) – 7:30PM, Sun. 05-02-21 

Post#801 » by The Comedian » Mon May 3, 2021 3:08 am

tlee324 wrote:
The Comedian wrote:To be fair, it took Tatum until mid January of last year to really blow up and take over as the clear cut best player.


At that time, I had JT behind KW and GH but both were obvious health issues. He was never ahead of KI either, in my opinion (still isn't), but he's now the clear cut top guy and on the rise.

A healthy Kemba would be great alongside him though...


I think he’s definitely better than Kyrie now, I think there’s only 8 or 9 better players in the league.

And yeah Kemba being injured has been a killer.
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Re: Game Thread: Trail Blazers (35-28) @ Celtics (34-30) – 7:30PM, Sun. 05-02-21 

Post#802 » by LarryBirdsFingr » Mon May 3, 2021 3:36 am

Bill Bradley wrote:
LarryBirdsFingr wrote:
Higgs Boston wrote:Can someone explain why Brown is shooting so much in a game where he isn't hitting shots and he was questionable but there are games where he is on fire and doesn't even shoot 18 times?

Tatum 60 point game.


Ridiculous.

Ridiculous but true
I don't believe in statistics. There are too many factors that can't be measured. You can't measure a ballplayer's heart. -Red Auerbach

Marcus Smart is an underrated shooter
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Game Thread: Trail Blazers (35-28) @ Celtics (34-30) – 7:30PM, Sun. 05-02-21 

Post#803 » by Captain_Caveman » Mon May 3, 2021 5:14 am

tlee324 wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
tlee324 wrote:
He's been on very restrictive time coming off of surgery; but I recall you calling Kemba our best player (and I agreed at the time) prior to the injury. They want to preserve him for the playoffs the best they can.

But to the original point of the thread, you can be a fan of the Celtics even if you don't like Smart. Just my opinion on it.

I think he's playing pretty well overall, but there's going to be frustrating moments along the way.


Definitely wasn't me. Tatum has been our best player for a few years now, IMO. I had Kemba 4th best last year behind Hayward and Jaylen. This year? Still not top 3. I don't hate him, but he's gloriously overpaid for a scoring specialist who is rarely on. More to the point here, it's pretty crazy that Smart has started 250+ games in the regular season and playoffs, despite never being a starter or being paid like one. He's perpetually having to fill in for guys that make 2-3 times as much, and has done a hell of a job doing it.


Was able to find it, January last year. And like I said, I agreed with you. He'd still be a bit overpaid, but he's a pretty special player when healthy. If we can get that for the playoffs it gives us an honest chance to go far.

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And at that early point of the season, he was. Tatum started the year slow but passed him for good last season just a few weeks later in that big 2OT Clippers game. Hayward ended up being better overall last year as well, IMO. Maybe even Jaylen, although he too started really slow, IIRC.

Not to parse too much, but since you are knowingly or not, I also think there is a clear difference between saying "best player" and "best player this year". I have never, ever felt that Kemba was a better player than Tatum since he signed here, and never said he was. Pretty confident my posts reflect all of this, even if I can also acknowledge when a guy is playing well. I have been saying pretty early on that Kemba is not a very good playmaker and poor defensively.

That's really not too much nuance. We've had similar conversations about IT and Jaylen. We can both agree that I never thought IT was a building block, and felt he was way more net neutral than most realized, but I can still give him props for that amazing 2-month run he had. Similarly I vote Tatum for VC more often than Jaylen because I feel that Tatum is a more complete player who has tougher responsibilities than a player who is more limited than many realize IMO, but I still vote Jaylen 3x as much as any other player on the team.
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Re: Game Thread: Trail Blazers (35-28) @ Celtics (34-30) – 7:30PM, Sun. 05-02-21 

Post#804 » by soxfan2003 » Mon May 3, 2021 5:08 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
tlee324 wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Definitely wasn't me. Tatum has been our best player for a few years now, IMO. I had Kemba 4th best last year behind Hayward and Jaylen. This year? Still not top 3. I don't hate him, but he's gloriously overpaid for a scoring specialist who is rarely on. More to the point here, it's pretty crazy that Smart has started 250+ games in the regular season and playoffs, despite never being a starter or being paid like one. He's perpetually having to fill in for guys that make 2-3 times as much, and has done a hell of a job doing it.


Was able to find it, January last year. And like I said, I agreed with you. He'd still be a bit overpaid, but he's a pretty special player when healthy. If we can get that for the playoffs it gives us an honest chance to go far.

Image


And at that early point of the season, he was. Tatum started the year slow but passed him for good last season just a few weeks later in that big 2OT Clippers game. Hayward ended up being better overall last year as well, IMO. Maybe even Jaylen, although he too started really slow, IIRC.

Not to parse too much, but since you are knowingly or not, I also think there is a clear difference between saying "best player" and "best player this year". I have never, ever felt that Kemba was a better player than Tatum since he signed here, and never said he was. Pretty confident my posts reflect all of this, even if I can also acknowledge when a guy is playing well. I have been saying pretty early on that Kemba is not a very good playmaker and poor defensively.

That's really not too much nuance. We've had similar conversations about IT and Jaylen. We can both agree that I never thought IT was a building block, and felt he was way more net neutral than most realized, but I can still give him props for that amazing 2-month run he had. Similarly I vote Tatum for VC more often than Jaylen because I feel that Tatum is a more complete player who has tougher responsibilities than a player who is more limited than many realize IMO, but I still vote Jaylen 3x as much as any other player on the team.


I completely get your nuance and I try to think with nuance when I am evaluating Celtics/NBA players.

There is a difference between player evaluation in regular season vs how they contribute or are expected to contribute vs high level competition in post season. IT is a great example. I never doubted his contributions to those Celtics teams during regular season even though I didn't think he deserved serious MVP consideration -- people were overlooking his very bad regular season defense -- but I sure thought based upon NBA history and what works in the post season, his lack of size/ability on defense would be further exploited even more by the quality teams. Some IT fans blame the injury but he was going to get exploited on defense even if he was 100% healthy and he was going to have his offense slowed down if not completely stopped as well vs the very good teams that could play a little defense.

Same goes for Kemba....to a lesser extent but still noticeable. So saying Kemba was "the best player this year" or any year during the middle of the regular season isn't saying you or anyone else is expecting him to contribute the most in the post season.

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