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Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31)

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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#121 » by BK_2020 » Mon May 3, 2021 1:04 pm

JHTruth wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
JHTruth wrote:Brad with another disaster coaching job. Started TT (who was -20 tonight). Went away from the Nesmith, PP, Rob combo that was about the only thing that worked tonight.

Amazing this guy has the job security he has.

Now it's just pray the Jays are OK


Brad obviously made the decision to have TT rather than Time Lord guard Nurkic. That's reasonable, whether or not it worked.

Another option was to play Grant and Time Lord together, with Grant on Nurkic, much as in the Denver game. But that would have been hard to stomach given how the other reserves were playing. (Romeo did get 14 minutes, however ...)

Brad also doesn't want to play Time Lord vs. small ball. What's his low confidence in Rob on defense based on?


He's an idiot? Every advanced metric says Rob is every bit the defender TT if not better and far far better on offense. Tonight's game was a perfect example of their relative impact. It's simply inexcusable at this point


Defensive on/off:
TT = -1.3 (60th percentile) ....... RW = +4.2 (18th percentile)

D-RAPTOR
TT = -0.6 overall ...... RW = -0.4 overall

D-LEBRON
TT= 1.25 ...... RW = 1.23

D-RPM (ESPN)
TT = 0.10 (33rd Center) ...... RW = -1.86 (84th Center)
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#122 » by Red2 » Mon May 3, 2021 1:31 pm

This season has sucked . Im really tired of watching marcus smart shoot 4-17 or 1-9 on 3’s. Snd he can say all he wants about his D but he’s definitely lost a step there. I love his fight and hustle but if you could get a legit starting point guard or shooting guard or a young Big by trading him i would do it.
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#123 » by bucknersrevenge » Mon May 3, 2021 1:46 pm

Just think if it was Tatum and Harden surrounded by Fournier, Nesmith, and Pritchard!

Just kidding.

But for real, it's been cool to get a glimpse of what this team could possibly be with those spacing the floor for Tatum. Their emergence is something we can definitely take solace in. They're becoming the complements we hoped they could be. But again to get back into the thick of it. Tatum is absolutely capable of being a hub and playmaking for others, but Brown isn't. And yet we still treat Brown like he is a focal point on offense when Tatum isn't in which is an issue. Brown is great at finishing plays off Tatum's gravity like the other guys are. But you give Brown the ball with 18 seconds left on the shot clock and it's a death sentence to ball movement on that possession because he's not giving the ball up. So everyone just gets a front row seat of watching him dribble himself into an inevitable 1 on 3 which likely ends in a turnover or at best, a bad shot that he somehow gets to go down. The play needs to run through whoever is the primary ballhandler (Smart, Kemba, Pritchard) whenever Tatum isn't on the floor and we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot when that doesn't happen. And if you wanna nitpick, Tatum could do to give the ball up a bit more and move to get the ball a bit. Kemba would be the answer to all these problems if we could count on him to play in all the games maybe but too bad.
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#124 » by BK_2020 » Mon May 3, 2021 1:48 pm

I'd be happy with Jaylen learning to move away from Tatum so his defender doesn't get to hedge and double for free.
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#125 » by RondoToKG » Mon May 3, 2021 2:27 pm

I know they don't want Smart to lose his confidence, but someone needs to tell him once he goes 1/5 from behind the 3pt line it's time to stop shooting those shots until the next one.. idk what the box score was yesterday but it feels like this is a consistent thing.
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#126 » by bobbutts » Mon May 3, 2021 3:15 pm

Bench guys stepping up and playoff intensity. Sucks that we lost and sucks even more about the injuries but if we can play like that we have a chance against the better teams. I know it's not a formula for winning a championship but it's better than I thought we were a few weeks ago.
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#127 » by bisme37 » Mon May 3, 2021 3:45 pm

I'm noticing people are very upset that Nesmith didn't play more minutes but I'm wondering if y'all missed that he had 5 fouls...
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#128 » by JHTruth » Mon May 3, 2021 3:53 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Brad obviously made the decision to have TT rather than Time Lord guard Nurkic. That's reasonable, whether or not it worked.

Another option was to play Grant and Time Lord together, with Grant on Nurkic, much as in the Denver game. But that would have been hard to stomach given how the other reserves were playing. (Romeo did get 14 minutes, however ...)

Brad also doesn't want to play Time Lord vs. small ball. What's his low confidence in Rob on defense based on?


He's an idiot? Every advanced metric says Rob is every bit the defender TT if not better and far far better on offense. Tonight's game was a perfect example of their relative impact. It's simply inexcusable at this point


Defensive on/off:
TT = -1.3 (60th percentile) ....... RW = +4.2 (18th percentile)

D-RAPTOR
TT = -0.6 overall ...... RW = -0.4 overall

D-LEBRON
TT= 1.25 ...... RW = 1.23

D-RPM (ESPN)
TT = 0.10 (33rd Center) ...... RW = -1.86 (84th Center)


The two metrics teams care about are DBPM and LEBRON. As you noted they are about the same in LEBRON.

DBPM:

TT: -1/1
RW: 3.2

As we can see Rob is AT LEAST as good a defender as TT. Offense isn't close
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#129 » by BK_2020 » Mon May 3, 2021 4:04 pm

So what you meant by "Every advanced metric" was...exactly two advanced stats I arbitrarily like?
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#130 » by Shak_Celts » Mon May 3, 2021 4:18 pm

Watched this one again, it was uglier than I remember in that second half, and I'm not talking about Brown who was already pegged as bad! The first half was really good by most of the guys but don't mistake what went on the second half, mainly 4th, it was a bunch of mess! Nesmith should have gotten more minutes at the end of the 4th when it was clear Brown didn't have it! I don't know if CBS would do that to one of his key players b/c he hasn't in the past but it likely would have helped, we needed more buckets/energy out of him (yeah he had 5 fouls but in the NBA you get 6)!

I enjoyed watching it more than many of our other losses, guys we need to be rounding into form are doing just that! I'd prefer a game with great defense but it was so fun watching Fourny go flames and Nesmith continued his great shooting and overall good play!

Pritch is so solid, he hit the rookie wall for a little bit but I think that knee really messed his rhythm up! I love that he keeps giving us bench contribution even during times he was the only one or one of 2 depending on who of TT or Rob was good that night and coming off! He is a rookie but he has been our most consistently competent one in a while, who wasn't a top pick! We have been through a lot of picks surrounding the Jays and most have been bust/really bad or very inconsistently ok-ish (Grant and Semi)! Rob hasn't been healthy over the years but he was the only one prior to Pritch who gave us much of anything (hope)! Grant had his moment year one and a few this season but we can't count on him at all. You can't give up on these young guys that we still have but man, we have not had much luck with drafting for years now (non Jays picks)! All I hope is that we are finally coming out of that and that we have found 2 gems in Pritch and Nesmith, if both continue to get better, that could vault us another level!

If our rooks keep their play up, Fourny keeps rounding into bball shape, and the team gets and stays healthy we will be a tough out! I don't care what team y'all call out, they don't want to see us!
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#131 » by moonie_mcgee » Mon May 3, 2021 4:45 pm

Ima still watching the game. Left off near the end of the 3rd. First half was incredible, 71-71, are you kidding me. Tremendous pace. Tatum, Fournier, Pritch and Nesmith shooting well. Defense wasn't bad, just better offense. Felt like a playoff game. Loved the TL, Pritch, Nesmith combo. Love the center committee as both TT and TL have strengths and weaknesses that IMO offset each other. Other than the short slow start the two teams were evenly matched a battling hard. I'll watch the rest tonight to see what the hell happened. I don't watch ANY pregame or post game crap. Just the game, and I'll form my own opinion (for better or worse - usually worse lol)
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#132 » by Fencer reregistered » Mon May 3, 2021 8:12 pm

Smitty's take on the game is excellent. And I share his general view of the Celtics offense.

Bonus points because he lives in Orlando and has great knowledge of Fournier.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/5/3/22417218/boston-loses-a-shootout-10-takeaways-from-boston-celtics-portland-trail-blazers
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#133 » by BFitzMoney » Mon May 3, 2021 9:33 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:I will say as Nesmith and Pritchard get minutes and Fournier gets comfortable, we're rounding into shape as we head to the playoffs. All the different rotations and Jaylen in particular being awful on defense are imho the main reasons why we've struggled defensively as a team all season. If Brad can just settle into the proper rotation for the last handful of games so everyone knows their roles, we have a chance to beat anyone. That rotation, as I've said all along, should be:

Pritchard-Kemba
Nesmith-Smart
Brown-Fournier
Tatum-Langford
Williams-TT

Substitute the whole team with 4 min left in the 1st and 3rd quarters, brining the starters back in with 7 min left in the 2nd and 4th. The starting unit has incredible shooting, length, and good enough defense if everyone is putting in their best effort. Then our second unit plays against scrubs and Kemba and Fournier provide the offense with Smart and TT a PnR combo plus defense and Langford a glue guy. They don't need to win games, just don't lose them. And being all veterans except RL, they'd do that. This would leave us very rested and everyone playing with high energy. Brad won't do it because he has no balls though. But if he did, we'd be golden with our best chance to win. Hopefully this is how it'll be next season at least.


I agree 100%.
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#134 » by BFitzMoney » Mon May 3, 2021 9:35 pm

KingofTheClay wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
KingofTheClay wrote:Cool I don’t care. Maybe that’s true.

Atleast I’m not delusional.

Browns absolutely HORRIBLE defensively. He’s also a black hole.


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We get it dude. You don't like Brown. No one cares. Can you just chill?

Yes let’s chill when Jaylen Brown is the crux of the teams problem and everyone is too blinded by their green tinted glasses to see.

Hope Brown is OK but the team is in a MUCH better shape now that he’s injured.


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Not only do you post the same thing non-stop through the entire thread. But you double down on the ridiculous take that the team is better without Jaylen Brown, an all-star. Wow.
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#135 » by BostonCouchGM » Mon May 3, 2021 9:56 pm

Red2 wrote:This season has sucked . Im really tired of watching marcus smart shoot 4-17 or 1-9 on 3’s. Snd he can say all he wants about his D but he’s definitely lost a step there. I love his fight and hustle but if you could get a legit starting point guard or shooting guard or a young Big by trading him i would do it.


We already have that legit starting PG and SG in PP and Nesmith. The easiest
way to fix this is for Smart to go to 6th man role he’s suited for and tough coaching to get him to stop shooting. Sadly Brad doesn’t have the balls
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#136 » by moonie_mcgee » Mon May 3, 2021 11:57 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:
Red2 wrote:This season has sucked . Im really tired of watching marcus smart shoot 4-17 or 1-9 on 3’s. Snd he can say all he wants about his D but he’s definitely lost a step there. I love his fight and hustle but if you could get a legit starting point guard or shooting guard or a young Big by trading him i would do it.


We already have that legit starting PG and SG in PP and Nesmith. The easiest
way to fix this is for Smart to go to 6th man role he’s suited for and tough coaching to get him to stop shooting. Sadly Brad doesn’t have the balls


I'd imagine Smart might gracefully come off the bench but Kemba could be a much longer putt. Kemba might go along if it's attributed to his medical situation. That might help him save face a bit. It might also be the opening volley to which he's moved in the offseason with 2 years remaining on his contract. What it would take for that I don't know (pick, player, both) but I personally believe that Pritch is starting NBA talent and makes Kemba obsolete if not a soon to materialize upgrade.
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#137 » by moonie_mcgee » Tue May 4, 2021 12:15 am

BFitzMoney wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:I will say as Nesmith and Pritchard get minutes and Fournier gets comfortable, we're rounding into shape as we head to the playoffs. All the different rotations and Jaylen in particular being awful on defense are imho the main reasons why we've struggled defensively as a team all season. If Brad can just settle into the proper rotation for the last handful of games so everyone knows their roles, we have a chance to beat anyone. That rotation, as I've said all along, should be:

Pritchard-Kemba
Nesmith-Smart
Brown-Fournier
Tatum-Langford
Williams-TT

Substitute the whole team with 4 min left in the 1st and 3rd quarters, brining the starters back in with 7 min left in the 2nd and 4th. The starting unit has incredible shooting, length, and good enough defense if everyone is putting in their best effort. Then our second unit plays against scrubs and Kemba and Fournier provide the offense with Smart and TT a PnR combo plus defense and Langford a glue guy. They don't need to win games, just don't lose them. And being all veterans except RL, they'd do that. This would leave us very rested and everyone playing with high energy. Brad won't do it because he has no balls though. But if he did, we'd be golden with our best chance to win. Hopefully this is how it'll be next season at least.


I agree 100%.


That Pritch, Nesmith, Timlord combo was really good. Pritch is no longer deferring to Smart and Brown, and taking it himself. Nesmith woke up one day this past month, looked in the mirror, and said damn I'm a stud. He's playing with great confidence. I predict Romie will show up in camp with that confidence too (but he'll have to prove it on the floor, in a game). TL is a game changer for sure BUT he doesn't body up, position and battle in traffic, and rotate on D as well as TT. He'll get there but I still like the 2 sharing the C spot. As a side note, I'm not sold on Founier for that expected, big contact. Personally I dont think he's think that strong physically and he certainly doesnt play very physically. If I wanted a wing I'd rather get one that's more prototypical for today game. Fournier ain't it IMHO.
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#138 » by exculpatory » Tue May 4, 2021 1:06 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:Smitty's take on the game is excellent. And I share his general view of the Celtics offense.

Bonus points because he lives in Orlando and has great knowledge of Fournier.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/5/3/22417218/boston-loses-a-shootout-10-takeaways-from-boston-celtics-portland-trail-blazers


Excellent+ analysis.

Either Smitty or someone at Celtics Blog should proof read his stuff.
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#139 » by Fencer reregistered » Tue May 4, 2021 1:16 am

moonie_mcgee wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:
Red2 wrote:This season has sucked . Im really tired of watching marcus smart shoot 4-17 or 1-9 on 3’s. Snd he can say all he wants about his D but he’s definitely lost a step there. I love his fight and hustle but if you could get a legit starting point guard or shooting guard or a young Big by trading him i would do it.


We already have that legit starting PG and SG in PP and Nesmith. The easiest
way to fix this is for Smart to go to 6th man role he’s suited for and tough coaching to get him to stop shooting. Sadly Brad doesn’t have the balls


I'd imagine Smart might gracefully come off the bench but Kemba could be a much longer putt. Kemba might go along if it's attributed to his medical situation. That might help him save face a bit. It might also be the opening volley to which he's moved in the offseason with 2 years remaining on his contract. What it would take for that I don't know (pick, player, both) but I personally believe that Pritch is starting NBA talent and makes Kemba obsolete if not a soon to materialize upgrade.


Imagine the extreme in which the starting unit is populated with athletically gifted guys the Celtics drafted:

Smart/Nesmith/Brown/Tatum/RobWill

while the reserves are experienced vets and savvy young players, some of whom can score:

Kemba/Pritchard/Fournier/Grant/Thompson

I think Brad could coach the hell out of that.
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Re: Post-Game Notes: POR 129, BOS 119 (34-31) 

Post#140 » by moonie_mcgee » Tue May 4, 2021 1:44 am

I think I was being a bit harsh on Fournier. He may not be that strong physically compared to other wings he was certainly scrappy out there last night. That play in the back court was awesome. If we sign him I hope he works on his body bc he'll need to if he's a starting SG. The turning point in the game was the missed goaltending for sure. Kinda messed with our momentum. That said, Blazers played great with the lead. That's not something we can say too often. We tend to panic a bit both holding the lead and when we're behind in tight games. Not sure why. It's about poise and execution and we have as much experience as most teams.
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