Hal’s Draft Thread

[BostonCouchGM]

Just watched Adam Spinella's scouting video on Luka Garza. I had previously said that I thought his positives outweigh his negatives, but I have to take that back. Yes, he is a decent shooter/scorer, and a good rebounder, but his lack of athleticism is a huge negative, particularly as a defender. Lumbering is the word that comes to mind. If he ever sees the court in an NBA game, he will be picked on relentlessly, as he is marginally better than a chair. He will be abused. Players will blow past him at will.

So then no different than every other center? Jokic is horrific on that end and he just won MVP. Doncic is among the leagues worst yet people want to make him the new face of the league. Defense is an afterthought. Even supposed great defenders like Kawhi and George barely give effort and get abused.
There aren’t more than a few bigs as skilled as Garza. The “scouts” are predictably getting it wrong again. They fail to see the player he’d be if he got into shape. I’m not saying that will for sure happen but if he does he can be effective and certainly worth taking a chance on with a later pick

[Half-Full]

Just watched Adam Spinella's scouting video on Luka Garza. I had previously said that I thought his positives outweigh his negatives, but I have to take that back. Yes, he is a decent shooter/scorer, and a good rebounder, but his lack of athleticism is a huge negative, particularly as a defender. Lumbering is the word that comes to mind. If he ever sees the court in an NBA game, he will be picked on relentlessly, as he is marginally better than a chair. He will be abused. Players will blow past him at will.

So then no different than every other center? Jokic is horrific on that end and he just won MVP. Doncic is among the leagues worst yet people want to make him the new face of the league. Defense is an afterthought. Even supposed great defenders like Kawhi and George barely give effort and get abused.
There aren’t more than a few bigs as skilled as Garza. The “scouts” are predictably getting it wrong again. They fail to see the player he’d be if he got into shape. I’m not saying that will for sure happen but if he does he can be effective and certainly worth taking a chance on with a later pick

I know that the majority of centers are not noted for their defense, but Garza looks especially bad. Did you watch the video?

[Hal14]

Looking at the playoffs (Nets Clippers especially) makes me want a NON center even more in RD1. We can get a pure center in RD 2 for sure. I want another floor spacing forward (not 2-3 combo) with shooting and switch-ability.

I am not opposed to a lineup of Smart - Nesmith - Brown -Tatum + RW. to start. The worst defenses are ones that you always have top cover for and get caught up in rotations. If Romeo continues to improve his shooting I wouldn't mind him being 6th man.

"Switching everything" works great when there are no glaring mismatches (Kemba Fournier TT etc.)

But I don't want anyone that can't shoot at a respectable clip either. I no Longer want Tatum and/or Brown to be crowded every time. I want the most make you pay type of players. Will look again at my top 5 choices tonight.

I know you mentioned BJ Boston a few pages back - I'm checking him out him more now and think he could be a sleeper.

6'7", insanely athletic, moves fluid and with good bounce. Plays above the rim. Really hustles/good tenacity attacking the basket and crashing offensive boards. Only shot 35% FG and 30% from 3 but he was a freshman playing in the SEC - I don't think there was very many freshman in a Big 6 conference shooting well over 30% from 3. His shooting form is smooth/fluid though and he shot 78% from FT line. He's really more of a 2/3 though so probably not the best fit for the Celtics - although at the 7:54 mark here you see a bigger guy try backing him down in the post, Boston defends it nicely and forces the missed shot:

Watch on YouTube

I'm seeing a top 20 talent, maybe top 15. But he's projected to go early-mid 2nd round so def seems underrated. If Boston is still there for us in the 2nd round we'd have to be stupid not to at least take a flier on him. The talent Boston has though, I'd be shocked if he's still there with the 45th pick..would be cool for Boston to draft a guy named Boston, lol

Your criteria is a little tricky, though. Most of the really switchable guys who can defend bigs and defend out on the perimeter (Wagner, Garuba, Robinson-Earl), aren't great outside shooters. Most of the great outside shooters (Cazalon, Kispert, Springer, Davion Mitchell, Hyland) are smaller guys who can't really defend bigs inside - or they're weaker defenders.

I suppose 1 guy who's an exception is Kai Jones. Good switchability and shot 38% from 3. He's obviously a guy who could be a good fit on the celtics. Jalen Johnson is a switchable defender and shot 40% from 3 but on a small sample size - many people say outside shooting is one of his areas he needs to work on.

Back to BJ Boston - this other video shows a bunch of defensive plays and you see some really good perimeter D, especially off the ball jumping passing lanes for deflections and steals as well as a little bit of interior D where he comes over from help side to block a shot at the rim, so he definitely has switchability potential:

Watch on YouTube

[KJStark23]

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[playa-hater]

Looking at the playoffs (Nets Clippers especially) makes me want a NON center even more in RD1. We can get a pure center in RD 2 for sure. I want another floor spacing forward (not 2-3 combo) with shooting and switch-ability.

I am not opposed to a lineup of Smart - Nesmith - Brown -Tatum + RW. to start. The worst defenses are ones that you always have top cover for and get caught up in rotations. If Romeo continues to improve his shooting I wouldn't mind him being 6th man.

"Switching everything" works great when there are no glaring mismatches (Kemba Fournier TT etc.)

But I don't want anyone that can't shoot at a respectable clip either. I no Longer want Tatum and/or Brown to be crowded every time. I want the most make you pay type of players. Will look again at my top 5 choices tonight.

I know you mentioned BJ Boston a few pages back - I'm checking him out him more now and think he could be a sleeper.

6'7", insanely athletic, moves fluid and with good bounce. Plays above the rim. Really hustles/good tenacity attacking the basket and crashing offensive boards. Only shot 35% FG and 30% from 3 but he was a freshman playing in the SEC - I don't think there was very many freshman in a Big 6 conference shooting well over 30% from 3. His shooting form is smooth/fluid though and he shot 78% from FT line. He's really more of a 2/3 though so probably not the best fit for the Celtics - although at the 7:54 mark here you see a bigger guy try backing him down in the post, Boston defends it nicely and forces the missed shot:

Watch on YouTube

I'm seeing a top 20 talent, maybe top 15. But he's projected to go early-mid 2nd round so def seems underrated. If Boston is still there for us in the 2nd round we'd have to be stupid not to at least take a flier on him. The talent Boston has though, I'd be shocked if he's still there with the 45th pick..would be cool for Boston to draft a guy named Boston, lol

Your criteria is a little tricky, though. Most of the really switchable guys who can defend bigs and defend out on the perimeter (Wagner, Garuba, Robinson-Earl), aren't great outside shooters. Most of the great outside shooters (Cazalon, Kispert, Springer, Davion Mitchell, Hyland) are smaller guys who can't really defend bigs inside - or they're weaker defenders.

I suppose 1 guy who's an exception is Kai Jones. Good switchability and shot 38% from 3. He's obviously a guy who could be a good fit on the celtics. Jalen Johnson is a switchable defender and shot 40% from 3 but on a small sample size - many people say outside shooting is one of his areas he needs to work on.

Back to BJ Boston - this other video shows a bunch of defensive plays and you see some really good perimeter D, especially off the ball jumping passing lanes for deflections and steals as well as a little bit of interior D where he comes over from help side to block a shot at the rim, so he definitely has switchability potential:

Watch on YouTube

good write up Hal, and I easily agree.

* a side not to my Not wanting a 2-3 type, BJ at 6'7 (if he really is) with some long arms might be big enough to be a true 3 man.

Nesmith and Romeo are closer to 6'6 and 6'4 therefor not quite enough size. But at 6'7 BJ could play with a Tatum-Brown-BJ + RW and Smart and would give Boston my desired switch-ability with at least some respectable size.

Imagine having Mikal Bridges who is only 6'7 rotating with our guys. Maybe BJ Boston can be our M Bridges.

[playa-hater]

maybe the most realistic/possible trade scenario taken from the trade thread.

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
I think my best hope is Kemba and 16 for Horford, 35 and 36

Getting a serviceable shooting Big in Horford. and still having 3 second rders to gamble on may be best for us. OKC doesn't need all of those seconds. They have very little roster spots as of now with a ton of picks coming.

will add 3 good 2nd rd choices later..

[playa-hater]

maybe the most realistic/possible trade scenario taken from the trade thread.

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
I think my best hope is Kemba and 16 for Horford, 35 and 36

Getting a serviceable shooting Big in Horford. and still having 3 second rders to gamble on may be best for us. OKC doesn't need all of those seconds. They have very little roster spots as of now with a ton of picks coming.

will add 3 good 2nd rd choices later..

Using this scenario as an example these would be some excellent 2nd round selections for us

Jeremiah Robinson Earl
Roku
BJ Boston

With Horford's addition..

Size versatility defense and shooting would be Greatly improved for our bench in my opinion

[return2glory]

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A few of you have mentioned Zaire. This is a guy that impresses me a lot. He is so smooth offensively. He was inconsistent in his freshman year and needs to put on a good 15-20 lbs ASAP, but his ceiling to me is really high.

[return2glory]

I'm hoping at least one of Jalen Johnson, Kai Jones and/or Ziaire Williams is still there at 16.

[playa-hater]

I'm hoping at least one of Jalen Johnson, Kai Jones and/or Ziaire Williams is still there at 16.

that is so close if not dead on my top 3 right now. As I have already declared Z Williams "Tatum Lite"

One year of heavy training, Tatum and/or Giannis style in the weight room and Bam! another star. How many draft picks have that true "star" potential.

[return2glory]

Watch on YouTube

Another guy I would consider taking at 16. Most mock drafts have Roko around late 1st round, early 2nd rounder but I feel he will move up.

I like the way he can create is own shot, love that we has a high release on his shot and can create separation. He is also explosive and has a good feel for the game at only 18. Good passing skills as well.

[return2glory]

I'm hoping at least one of Jalen Johnson, Kai Jones and/or Ziaire Williams is still there at 16.

that is so close if not dead on my top 3 right now. As I have already declared Z Williams "Tatum Lite"

One year of heavy training, Tatum and/or Giannis style in the weight room and Bam! another star. How many draft picks have that true "star" potential.

Yes, Ziaire has a Tatum like game. That's a good call.

[threrf23]

Another guy I would consider taking at 16. Most mock drafts have Roko around late 1st round, early 2nd rounder but I feel he will move up.

I like he way he can create is own shot, love that we has a high release on his shot and can create separation. He is also explosive and has a good feel for the game at only 18. He also has good passing skills.

I like Roko, statistically passable, scouting reports I've seen point out no real red flags, one of the youngest players in the draft. Amongst Adriatic League players with more than 500 minutes played this season, he ranked fourth in rebounds per 36, which is key IMO.

I've seen him referred to as a "below the rim player," and playing in the Adriatic league limitations might not be exposed. That video helps sell me though. He looks fluid and capable.

[threrf23]

This guy will be draft eligible next year, at worst will make a cool 2nd round pick just due to his name.

Read on Twitter

[playa-hater]

Watch on YouTube

Another guy I would consider taking at 16. Most mock drafts have Roko around late 1st round, early 2nd rounder but I feel he will move up.

I like the way he can create is own shot, love that we has a high release on his shot and can create separation. He is also explosive and has a good feel for the game at only 18. Good passing skills as well.

I also like him quite a bit. will be a pretty good shooter as well. My questions are if he is tough + "switchy" enough on defense.. So hard to tell in Europe sometimes.

And before someone complains my ancestors are of European Origins.

He is in my top 2nd tier at 16. my top tier remains Jalen Johnson and Kai Jones. I have Giddy, Zaire Williams, Garuba, Roko definitely in my top 4 of 6 for 2nd tier group of players for 16.

This includes only players that are currently "around" our draft spot at the moment.

[playa-hater]

This guy will be draft eligible next year, at worst will make a cool 2nd round pick just due to his name.

Read on Twitter

Europeans are becoming Pro's at a very young age and getting more training and experience than our college kids. So many potential sleepers over seas.

[Curmudgeon]

Roko's bust potential is too high for me. I prefer Garuba or Sengun, both of whom have NBA bodies already.

[return2glory]

Watch on YouTube

Another guy I would consider taking at 16. Most mock drafts have Roko around late 1st round, early 2nd rounder but I feel he will move up.

I like the way he can create is own shot, love that we has a high release on his shot and can create separation. He is also explosive and has a good feel for the game at only 18. Good passing skills as well.

I also like him quite a bit. will be a pretty good shooter as well. My questions are if he is tough + "switchy" enough on defense.. So hard to tell in Europe sometimes.

And before someone complains my ancestors are of European Origins.

He is in my top 2nd tier at 16. my top tier remains Jalen Johnson and Kai Jones. I have Giddy, Zaire Williams, Garuba, Roko definitely in my top 4 of 6 for 2nd tier group of players for 16.

This includes only players that are currently "around" our draft spot at the moment.

I feel like he can be a good defender because he shows quick feet, at least on the offensive end and is 6’9 with a 7’0 wingspan.

[playa-hater]

Roko's bust potential is too high for me. I prefer Garuba or Sengun, both of whom have NBA bodies already.

Roko's body is pretty solid for 18/19 year old. Not sure what he has as a bust more than any other player. What player picked in the mid-late first RD doesn't have bust potential?

I am not high on Sengun because I think he will be "hunted" on switches by other teams. He looks like a more skillful Kanter to me, and that is not an insult. Just hard for me to justify a center who is neither a rim protector or switchable IMO.

[Hal14]

I'm hoping at least one of Jalen Johnson, Kai Jones and/or Ziaire Williams is still there at 16.

that is so close if not dead on my top 3 right now. As I have already declared Z Williams "Tatum Lite"

One year of heavy training, Tatum and/or Giannis style in the weight room and Bam! another star. How many draft picks have that true "star" potential.

Ziaire and BJ Boston are very similar. Both were top 10 recruits coming out of high school. Both had somewhat disappointing freshman seasons compared to what the expectations were for them. Both had poor FG and 3 point shooting percentages but both have really smooth/fluid shooting form and releases combined with really high FT% which leads you to believe that both will improve their FG and 3 point percentages, especially since they're only 19 so still lots of time to develop.

Both have insane/freakish athleticism and really good length and ability to make highlight reel dunks and highlight reel shots off the dribble. Ziaire is 1 inch taller at 6'8", but he has a 6'10.5" wingspan compared to a 6'11" wingspan for Boston. Also, they're both 185 lbs. Both obviously need to bulk up and add strength but I'm more worried about Ziaire having to bulk up because a) he's 6'8", 185 compared to Boston who's 6'7", 185 lbs which means Ziaire is a little more frail and b) Boston plays bigger - he is better at going down low, getting his nose dirty in the paint and grabbing offense boards as well as better at finishing strong through contact - even scoring at the rim over bigger defenders.

Ziaire shot 29% from 3. Boston shot 30% from 3, so basically the same but Boston shot 33.7% from 3 after December 1 - and his form/stroke nice really nice from 3. Ziaire has a nice stroke in the mid-range area but he seems to struggle from 3 moreso than Boston.

Defensively they're both solid, but Boston seems a little better at a) jumping the passing lanes for steals when defending perimeter and b) blocking shots from the weak side whereas Ziare seems a little better defending on the ball so I'd give a slight edge on D tio Boston.

Boston has slightly longer wingspan and seems a tad quicker. Both have those long strides which allows them to cover more ground with less effort, especially when driving to the rim.

Both show good flashes as a play maker.

Boston, I see a little more of that "it" factor, like I could seriously see him turning into a star in this league. Ziaire I can see it too, but not as much - and with Ziaire I feel like his success in the NBA is more dependent on being able to add strength/bulk up - Boston could certainly stand to hit the weight room as well but the lack of strength doesn't seem to be as much of a hindrance to him.

Overall, I'd rank Boston slightly higher. I think Boston could end up being better than both Nesmith and Langford - and Boston is taller/longer than both of them. Just not sure if it's a good idea for us to draft him or Ziaire, given that we already do have Langford and Nesmith on the team and just drafted them with our last 2 lottery picks.

Also, when looking at the 3 point percentages of Boston and Ziare being low, keep in mind Nesmith only shot 33.7% from 3 his freshman year (same thing Boston shot after December 1) . Nesmith also averaged just 11 PPG his freshman year, same thing Boston and Ziaire averaged this season, while playing in a tougher conference than Nesmith played in. Nesmith improved a lot from freshman year to sophomore year - Ziaire and Boston could see similar development next season.

Both Ziaire and Boston look like they could use another year in college to develop their game and develop their physique. 16 might be a reach for either. Somewhere late in the 1st round I would take them for sure..

Then you have Malcolm Cazalon. Similar measurements to Boston and Ziare. Cazalon is 6'6", 186 lbs so not quite as frail as Boston and Ziaire but also not as tall. Cazalon does have a 6'11" wingspan so similar to Boston and Ziaire in terms of length. Cazalon is atheltic but definitely not as freakishly athletic as Boston and Ziaire. All 3 of these guys are 19 years old. Cazalon however is by far the best shooter of the 3. Cazalon is shooting 41% from 3 this season, so MUCH higher than Boston or Ziaire. And Cazalon did that facing tougher competition professionally in europe. Cazalon is a lefty with a beautiful shooting stroke, smooth as butter. He seems very poised out there for a 19 year old.

Defensively, Cazalon looks average. He's scrappy and he'll battle you. But seems like at times he gets beat off the dribble when defending quicker guards/wings and but does do a decent job holding his own when he switches onto bigger guys who try scoring on him down low.

Cazalon appears to be slightly better defensively than Kispert and both of them are 2 of the better shooters in the draft at over 40% from 3 but Cazalon did it vs tougher competition, without a top 3 pick in the draft feeding him the ball (Jalen suggs feeding ball to kispert) and Cazalon is 3 years younger. I'm not sure where I'd rank Cazalon in relation to Boston and Ziaire (Cazalon is more udner the radar so there's not as much footage on him on youtube) but I would definitely rank Cazalon over Kispert.