AOS: Don't try for 90% of the game, make a fake comeback, clockwork (35-33)

[reload141]

I forgot this was an early game so I didn’t have the hide scores setting on in the NBA app when I woke up (as I’m in Australia and early games are done). So I unintentionally missed watching the game and seeing the scores and posts I have my doubts I’ll go back and watch.

I’m torn on this team and this year. History says teams as young as this are rarely consistent. Couple that with short break between seasons, COVID, lack of continuity and minimal training sessions makes me think I should lower my expectations and make a judgement on the long term next year.

However, it’s extremely hard not to get annoyed at what seems like a lack of effort, even if it is easy to say while sitting on my butt.

There are a lot of positives for the future occurring but still more adjustments need to be made roster wise. I’m hoping it’s a case of a necessary step back to go forward year.

Nevertheless I can’t help myself and will be dreaming about a fairytale run in the playoffs, only to get annoyed by the same damn things.

100%.

P.S. We got robbed against GWS, Hooker should've been paid a free for sure.

[Afam]

Changes are needed. That’s all

[Captain_Caveman]

These are obvious good points, but just a couple points to consider:

We voluntarily chose some discontinuity to rest Kemba for example. Or run a double-big lineup, clearly a terrible lineup, because we didn't want TT or Theis to be butthurt.

Also I would note that some of our biggest competition, such as the Hawks and Heat have had it as bad, if not worse than us. For example, if not for their injuries, the Hawks and Knicks would be even farther ahead of us than they are..

Read on Twitter

We cannot simply spend all summer blaming lost injury games for our struggles. We should be better than we are..

Reverse facts..brilliant..

Doesn't really speak to the point about continuity, though. The Knicks have a 5-man unit that has played 501 minutes together in 37 games. They have another 5-man unit that has played 395 minutes together in 23 games. 4 of the 5 players on those two Knicks units are the same, with the only difference being going to Nerlens Noel after Mitchell Robinson got hurt. So they have 4 guys who have played ~900 minutes together that had to adapt to a single injury to a non-star 5th starter, where the replacement wasn't even a huge drop-off.

That's a totally different situation than we have had IMO. Again, among players currently on the team, our most played 5-man unit only has 111 minutes played together in 10 games.

[Captain_Caveman]

We're now 12-17 when Marcus takes double digit shot attempts. 12-6 when he doesn't.

Yeah, definitely his fault.

It’s just lazy, need to look at who missed those games.

What's wild is... is he even a starter? At full strength, is is him or Fournier? Does anyone even know? Fournier came off the bench when he first got traded here, and when he first got back from COVID. But I kinda think he might be the starter over Smart. Either way, we are never healthy!

[Green89]

We're now 12-17 when Marcus takes double digit shot attempts. 12-6 when he doesn't.

Yeah, definitely his fault.

It’s just lazy, need to look at who missed those games.

Except, it's been year and and year out like that for a good 3 years, maybe more. Our record when he takes those extra shots has never even been .500, no matter who is playing. 30 shots between Tatum and Smart today, 16/14. If that stat is 22/8 Instead, in favor of Tatum, we would have had a tremendously higher chance of winning today. Don't know why it isn't as clear and easy to see that to some.

[Mr_Mojo_Risin]

I forgot this was an early game so I didn’t have the hide scores setting on in the NBA app when I woke up (as I’m in Australia and early games are done). So I unintentionally missed watching the game and seeing the scores and posts I have my doubts I’ll go back and watch.

I’m torn on this team and this year. History says teams as young as this are rarely consistent. Couple that with short break between seasons, COVID, lack of continuity and minimal training sessions makes me think I should lower my expectations and make a judgement on the long term next year.

However, it’s extremely hard not to get annoyed at what seems like a lack of effort, even if it is easy to say while sitting on my butt.

There are a lot of positives for the future occurring but still more adjustments need to be made roster wise. I’m hoping it’s a case of a necessary step back to go forward year.

Nevertheless I can’t help myself and will be dreaming about a fairytale run in the playoffs, only to get annoyed by the same damn things.

100%.

P.S. We got robbed against GWS, Hooker should've been paid a free for sure.

I haven't been able to watch that whole game either as I saw the first quarter and last 5 minutes of the match (at distance in a bar before a flight back to Melbourne) and even at distance I thought it looked like a free.

In some ways though just losing (while trying to win) with a team as young as this that is clearly being coached better and moving in the right direction is better for draft picks.

[Celts17Pride]

Read on Twitter

Celtics losing to Washington in the play in game is probably the most fitting end to this crap of a season

[Captain_Caveman]

Yeah, definitely his fault.

It’s just lazy, need to look at who missed those games.

Except, it's been year and and year out like that for a good 3 years, maybe more. Our record when he takes those extra shots has never even been .500, no matter who is playing. 30 shots between Tatum and Smart today, 16/14. If that stat is 22/8 in favor of Tatum instead, we would have had a tremendously higher chance of winning today. Don't know why it isn't as clear and easy to see that to some.

What is a whole lot clearer is that Smart has been asked to fill in for injured stars several hundred times in the last several years, and has been a key reason why we have won a ridiculously larger share of those shorthanded games than anyone could have reasonably expected. Like dozens of wins a year, including deep in the playoffs. That's absolutely unheard of for a role player filling in for star players.

I honestly don't get the point that people think they are making when they harp on his shooting, which isn't even that bad. Do you guys honestly think you are making some sort of insightful point when you make these posts? Point blank: Smart has filled in spectacularly for missing stars again and again. Anyone who isn't crystal clear about that and expects more out of him is completely out of their mind as far as reasonable expectations for the guy.

[Captain_Caveman]

Read on Twitter

Celtics losing to Washington in the play in game is probably the most fitting end to this crap of a season

Beal is done.

[Ben-N1ce]

It’s just lazy, need to look at who missed those games.

Except, it's been year and and year out like that for a good 3 years, maybe more. Our record when he takes those extra shots has never even been .500, no matter who is playing. 30 shots between Tatum and Smart today, 16/14. If that stat is 22/8 in favor of Tatum instead, we would have had a tremendously higher chance of winning today. Don't know why it isn't as clear and easy to see that to some.

What is a whole lot clearer is that Smart has been asked to fill in for injured stars several hundred times in the last several years, and has been a key reason why we have won a ridiculously larger share of those shorthanded games than anyone could have reasonably expected. Like dozens of wins a year, including deep in the playoffs. That's absolutely unheard of for a role player filling in for star players.

I honestly don't get the point that people think they are making when they harp on his shooting, which isn't even that bad. Do you guys honestly think you are making some sort of insightful point when you make these posts? Point blank: Smart has filled in spectacularly for missing stars again and again. Anyone who isn't crystal clear about that and expects more out of him is completely out of their mind as far as reasonable expectations for the guy.

Marcus Smart is literally one of the worst shooters in NBA history..not that bad lol 37% career shooter 32 % from 3 lmao he's god awful at shooting for a guard. Find me 5 guards in the NBA the last 40 years who shoot that bad and get 20+ minutes a game.

[reload141]

Read on Twitter

Celtics losing to Washington in the play in game is probably the most fitting end to this crap of a season

Depends how long Beal is out for too

[Ill News]

The game was 1am from where I am so I thought I'd tune in to the first half. I turned it off midway through the 2nd, as Miami just bamboozled them with excellent passing and constant movement. Oh, and C's came out lazy again until Nesmith came in. Seriously, it's the most important game of the year and they give up 79 POINTS IN THE FIRST HALF? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

It's pretty clear this team doesn't have many tough-minded players in it. We're night and day compared to the Heat; they just look more poised and mature, and they out-toughed us. Again.

Worst season ever. Yes, even worse than the Kyrie 2019 season, because that one at least had toxic chemistry that you could lay blame to. This team is full of likeable and talented guys, but THEY JUST DON'T CARE. What happened to what Jaylen said a few games ago about playing with urgency? They did for a few games, then of course they reverted back to being lazy asses. Of course.

I've been religiously following the Celtics for 15 years, and I have never felt this infuriated and depressed over a team. I'm worried this hatred might even continue to next season...

[playa-hater]

These are obvious good points, but just a couple points to consider:

We voluntarily chose some discontinuity to rest Kemba for example. Or run a double-big lineup, clearly a terrible lineup, because we didn't want TT or Theis to be butthurt.

Also I would note that some of our biggest competition, such as the Hawks and Heat have had it as bad, if not worse than us. For example, if not for their injuries, the Hawks and Knicks would be even farther ahead of us than they are..

Read on Twitter

We cannot simply spend all summer blaming lost injury games for our struggles. We should be better than we are..

Reverse facts..brilliant..

Doesn't really speak to the point about continuity, though. The Knicks have a 5-man unit that has played 501 minutes together in 37 games. They have another 5-man unit that has played 395 minutes together in 23 games. 4 of the 5 players on those two Knicks units are the same, with the only difference being going to Nerlens Noel after Mitchell Robinson got hurt. So they have 4 guys who have played ~900 minutes together that had to adapt to a single injury to a non-star 5th starter, where the replacement wasn't even a huge drop-off.

That's a totally different situation than we have had IMO. Again, among players currently on the team, our most played 5-man unit only has 111 minutes played together in 10 games.

I am too lazy or uncaring for a longer detailed reply, but the short is, sure some lack of continuity is due to injuries etc. but Brad Stevens exasperated it far worse with his forever revolving 11-13 man rotations, in which he many times used all in a single half.

Of the many many examples I could use, just look at Stevens playing Edwards today. In this game, at this time of year, with the production or lack there of, Edwards has done all year. Times 2 if you include his piss poor defensive ability.

Sorry but not even the GOAT PR person can save Stevens from the heat he deserves to get.
IMO of course.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

Poop²

[Captain_Caveman]

Except, it's been year and and year out like that for a good 3 years, maybe more. Our record when he takes those extra shots has never even been .500, no matter who is playing. 30 shots between Tatum and Smart today, 16/14. If that stat is 22/8 in favor of Tatum instead, we would have had a tremendously higher chance of winning today. Don't know why it isn't as clear and easy to see that to some.

What is a whole lot clearer is that Smart has been asked to fill in for injured stars several hundred times in the last several years, and has been a key reason why we have won a ridiculously larger share of those shorthanded games than anyone could have reasonably expected. Like dozens of wins a year, including deep in the playoffs. That's absolutely unheard of for a role player filling in for star players.

I honestly don't get the point that people think they are making when they harp on his shooting, which isn't even that bad. Do you guys honestly think you are making some sort of insightful point when you make these posts? Point blank: Smart has filled in spectacularly for missing stars again and again. Anyone who isn't crystal clear about that and expects more out of him is completely out of their mind as far as reasonable expectations for the guy.

Marcus Smart is literally one of the worst shooters in NBA history..not that bad lol 37% career shooter 32 % from 3 lmao he's god awful at shooting for a guard. Find me 5 guards in the NBA the last 40 years who shoot that bad and get 20+ minutes a game.

And yet, he has been a major factor in our winning dozens of games a year, usually while shorthanded and often in the playoffs. For role player money. He is our smartest player, our toughest player, our best leader, and is also irrefutably a more complete and less flawed player than either Kemba or Jaylen, both of whom make a ton more money than he does.

There are people who do this for Draymond, and people who used to do it for Rondo and Rodman before him. They aren't people who need to be listened to on the topic of basketball, and that is all there is to it.

More to the point, we know that Smart's FGA are directly correlated to the number of 20-25ppg scorers we are missing at any given time. Where else should those attempts be going, Grant Williams? Romeo?

[Green89]

What is a whole lot clearer is that Smart has been asked to fill in for injured stars several hundred times in the last several years, and has been a key reason why we have won a ridiculously larger share of those shorthanded games than anyone could have reasonably expected. Like dozens of wins a year, including deep in the playoffs. That's absolutely unheard of for a role player filling in for star players.

I honestly don't get the point that people think they are making when they harp on his shooting, which isn't even that bad. Do you guys honestly think you are making some sort of insightful point when you make these posts? Point blank: Smart has filled in spectacularly for missing stars again and again. Anyone who isn't crystal clear about that and expects more out of him is completely out of their mind as far as reasonable expectations for the guy.

Marcus Smart is literally one of the worst shooters in NBA history..not that bad lol 37% career shooter 32 % from 3 lmao he's god awful at shooting for a guard. Find me 5 guards in the NBA the last 40 years who shoot that bad and get 20+ minutes a game.

And yet, he has been a major factor in our winning dozens of games a year, usually while shorthanded and often in the playoffs. For role player money. He is our smartest player, our toughest player, our best leader, and is also irrefutably a more complete and less flawed player than either Kemba or Jaylen, both of whom make a ton more money than he does.

There are people who do this for Draymond, and people who used to do it for Rondo and Rodman before him. They aren't people who need to be listened to on the topic of basketball, and that is all there is to it.

More to the point, we know that Smart's FGA are directly correlated to the number of 20-25ppg scorers we are missing at any given time. Where else should those attempts be going, Grant Williams? Romeo?

How about Nesmith, Tatum, Pritchard. Just because scorers are out, doesn't mean he gets to take shots over much better percentage shooters. Too many momentum killing long threes early in the shot clock. That's terrible basketball, that's not being a warrior and filling in for the injured guys.

[Fencer reregistered]

What is a whole lot clearer is that Smart has been asked to fill in for injured stars several hundred times in the last several years, and has been a key reason why we have won a ridiculously larger share of those shorthanded games than anyone could have reasonably expected. Like dozens of wins a year, including deep in the playoffs. That's absolutely unheard of for a role player filling in for star players.

I honestly don't get the point that people think they are making when they harp on his shooting, which isn't even that bad. Do you guys honestly think you are making some sort of insightful point when you make these posts? Point blank: Smart has filled in spectacularly for missing stars again and again. Anyone who isn't crystal clear about that and expects more out of him is completely out of their mind as far as reasonable expectations for the guy.

Marcus Smart is literally one of the worst shooters in NBA history..not that bad lol 37% career shooter 32 % from 3 lmao he's god awful at shooting for a guard. Find me 5 guards in the NBA the last 40 years who shoot that bad and get 20+ minutes a game.

And yet, he has been a major factor in our winning dozens of games a year, usually while shorthanded and often in the playoffs. For role player money. He is our smartest player, our toughest player, our best leader, and is also irrefutably a more complete and less flawed player than either Kemba or Jaylen, both of whom make a ton more money than he does.

There are people who do this for Draymond, and people who used to do it for Rondo and Rodman before him. They aren't people who need to be listened to on the topic of basketball, and that is all there is to it.

More to the point, we know that Smart's FGA are directly correlated to the number of 20-25ppg scorers we are missing at any given time. Where else should those attempts be going, Grant Williams? Romeo?

I doubt that Smart's 16 points on 7-14 shooting were a principal reason for the loss.

His 6 TOs vs. 4 assists, on the other hand, might have been.

[JHTruth]

These are obvious good points, but just a couple points to consider:

We voluntarily chose some discontinuity to rest Kemba for example. Or run a double-big lineup, clearly a terrible lineup, because we didn't want TT or Theis to be butthurt.

Also I would note that some of our biggest competition, such as the Hawks and Heat have had it as bad, if not worse than us. For example, if not for their injuries, the Hawks and Knicks would be even farther ahead of us than they are..

Read on Twitter

We cannot simply spend all summer blaming lost injury games for our struggles. We should be better than we are..

In addition to showing that the Knicks are one of the healthier teams in the league, that graph in a vacuum doesn't show which players are injured. The Ws have been missing both Klay Thompson and Marquese Chriss all season, but one of those guys is a lot more important. Romeo notwithstanding, our injuries/missed games have been skewed to guys in our top 6. Back to the point about 5-man lineups, it's basically a different combo of guys in that top 6 each game.

You're exactly right. If you read closer, the size of the bubble for the team is the cumulative quality of player games lost to injury. Knicks circle is bigger than ours, which reflects that while they've lost fewer total games due to injury, the quality of those lost games is higher than ours, meaning they had their better players out more than ours

[jfs1000d]

Something is not clicking defensively.

You can't have a guy like Smart be a first team defender and us have a horrible defense. They gave up 79 first half points. Boston doesn't rotate or communicate and cant protect the rim. They also get killed off the dribble.

Is it Kemba? Yes. But smart and Tatum arne't really great on ball defenders anymore and no rim protection out there.

[JHTruth]

These are obvious good points, but just a couple points to consider:

We voluntarily chose some discontinuity to rest Kemba for example. Or run a double-big lineup, clearly a terrible lineup, because we didn't want TT or Theis to be butthurt.

Also I would note that some of our biggest competition, such as the Hawks and Heat have had it as bad, if not worse than us. For example, if not for their injuries, the Hawks and Knicks would be even farther ahead of us than they are..

Read on Twitter

We cannot simply spend all summer blaming lost injury games for our struggles. We should be better than we are..

Reverse facts..brilliant..

Doesn't really speak to the point about continuity, though. The Knicks have a 5-man unit that has played 501 minutes together in 37 games. They have another 5-man unit that has played 395 minutes together in 23 games. 4 of the 5 players on those two Knicks units are the same, with the only difference being going to Nerlens Noel after Mitchell Robinson got hurt. So they have 4 guys who have played ~900 minutes together that had to adapt to a single injury to a non-star 5th starter, where the replacement wasn't even a huge drop-off.

That's a totally different situation than we have had IMO. Again, among players currently on the team, our most played 5-man unit only has 111 minutes played together in 10 games.

"Continuity" only takes one so far though. You can have "continuity" with scrubs. What matters in the NBA is talent. Brooklyn has had their three stars together for what 7 games? And yet they are still the odds on favorite to come out of the East. Being able to effectively manage top-tier NBA talent is a skill Brad has yet to demonstrate. On the contrary our most talented players are usually the ones itching to get out of here, often with bad things to say about the organization (Rozier, Terry). This is a very ominous sign