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Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game?

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Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#1 » by celticfan42487 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 2:19 pm

So this is a classic I watched a game post.

But as I was watching the Mavs game last night, Luka was getting infinite no contest free floaters by getting the man on his back after a pick and roll (and this was against Kawhi or PG13 or Rondo in pick and rolls) and the defense being unsure if he was going to drive or not and not wanting to close out due to fear of lobs.

And with all these WIDE open, ZERO contact easy look shots being sunk in... I wondered why we don't see Tatum do more of this himself.

Luka playing in a pro league since he was a teenager may have lead him to develop this early (and growing up in a different basketball culture) but all of Tatum's looks are extremely difficult high talent moves. Triple Allen Iverson cross over fade away, spin move into a Kobe fade, drive to the basket to either euro and lean away from the defense or having to throw their jump off for a no contest layup.

But more and more now we want Tatum to have the ball in his hands as our main ballhandler. I think next year we may be transitioning away from a PG being the main ball handler and having Tatum be a facilitator like a true MVP kind of player would be for his team.

And I'm not saying our PF is going to be able to pass like one of the best PGs in the league, but from the man on his back position Tatum has shown passing ability in other situations that would translate to the same scenario he would have with his man on his back. Namely consistently over the past couple of years he is willing and capable to pass to a wide open man from a double (really drove this home this second half the season how good he's getting at this) which if someone steps up when he has his defender on his back a player on his team is just as open as if a double was covering him and even since his rookie year he's show the ability to throw a lob with great success and accuracy on drives.

So is this the next evolution for Tatum? Is him working on his floater with the man to his back the way he can keep the ball in his hands and generate easy looks that the doesn't generate now [url]for himself[/url] or for his team unless he's on fire and being doubled as our main ballhandler? I truly think it is.

I don't want him to stop doing his bread and butter and extremely difficult high talent level crossovers and fades, but this way he can get easy looks without using all his energy during a game and utilize his height and touch to take the defense out of the equation. And I think he's just as tall and strong as Luka. I think this just like how Luka was using it to destroy the Clippers defense is a goto move for the 2020s rules as a ballhandler of what you can and can't do on defense.
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#2 » by BK_2020 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 2:25 pm

Couldn't hurt, I guess.
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#3 » by darylbe » Thu Jun 3, 2021 2:44 pm

I never thought of JT as a super strong dude, but he is. I feel like his game is super taxing, but he powers through it. (ie why he starts with poor efficiency IMO). Now he has a full offseason, I'm not sure what or how, but Im 100% confident he will level up, and I hope it's via improved efficiency and less taxing offense.

I'd love a great passer at the 1. Not that I don't have confidence in JT, I just want to make it easier for him
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#4 » by cloverleaf » Thu Jun 3, 2021 3:00 pm

How about LeBron's power and pass to make your teammates better game?
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#5 » by The Comedian » Thu Jun 3, 2021 3:02 pm

It’s a shot he should use more, he improved a ton this year with it, but he needs to get better.

He went 13-17 on floaters off the glass, Luka went 25-34. Tatum went 31-76 on regular floaters (40.8%), Luka went 75-144 (52%).

Last year Tatum went 16-59 on them, 27%. So he already did it more often and jumped 13% in hitting them. I’d expect another sizable bump next year, like with his finishing this year.
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#6 » by celticfan42487 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 3:50 pm

cloverleaf wrote:How about LeBron's power and pass to make your teammates better game?


So I feel like LeBron's game that makes this successful is his inhuman athleticism, strength, and passing game.

With Luka's putting guys "in jail" behind him move and looking for floaters. That reduces the passing talent down to (if help comes, pass to open man if not take an uncontested floater, stop and start and fish for fouls for free throws if the defender behind you is too close).

It also reduces the reliance on a super fast first step or a power through and rise above athleticism like Wade or LeBron and reduces it to a methodical the defense is at a disadvantage and in 2020 they can't touch me. So you better hope I just miss or I don't throw the lob or I don't throw it to the man in the corner your using to try and cover my wide open floater.

I just feel that kind of passing skill and shooting touch Tatum has shown in spades and it's important for him to generate a lot more easy looks. Open floaters, or if the man is too close then jump backwards into him and get some free free throws. All without spending much energy doing so just using his god given talent to its most strategically advantageous zenith.

Tatum has done great doing it the super hard way though and I don't want him to abandon that... but I'd think he should be doing this at least 50% of the time whereas Luka seems to be doing it 90% of the time against the Clippers and even with some of the best perimeter defenders in the league the can't do ****.

Obviously Tatum could also transition out of it into a wide open step back 3 like Luka does too if the man doesn't stay behind him. That's like his legit calling card as a superstar move (sure it's a side step 3 but a wide open 3 is a wide open 3 for him he legit shot 39% last year and 40% this year with a healthy diet of step back or side step 3s)
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#7 » by 31to6 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 3:59 pm

The Comedian wrote:It’s a shot he should use more, he improved a ton this year with it, but he needs to get better.

He went 13-17 on floaters off the glass, Luka went 25-34. Tatum went 31-76 on regular floaters (40.8%), Luka went 75-144 (52%).

Last year Tatum went 16-59 on them, 27%. So he already did it more often and jumped 13% in hitting them. I’d expect another sizable bump next year, like with his finishing this year.


Thanks for these stats -- I was thinking by the last game against the Nets that "wow, Tatum's floaters mostly go in now!"
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#8 » by celticfan42487 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 4:02 pm

Of course this also would require a significant step back in the offense from Smart, Kemba, and Brown.

It's not quite a triangle offense but these are set plays that are organized to space out and center around Tatum running the offense and getting either a non physical easy look or an easy pass.

So you would only get the ball if they try to take away the easy shot from Tatum.

I'm sure Kemba wouldn't mind since he got paid and is a team player. Brown might not be thrilled with the idea he will get at best half of set plays called for him that he gets now when Tatum is on the floor.

I'm a bit worried Smart will really resent the idea of having almost all ball handling duties removed from him and only getting shots when his man helps on Tatum and Tatum passes it to him. Specifically in a contract year... he's trying to get paid too and will want to have a high number of FGAs and assists. He's not going to get paid from shooting a ton of wide open 3s at a 32% clip. We could try to mitigate this to keep him happy by agreeing for him to be on the floor every second Tatum isn't and have him be the PG to keep his ball possession number a little higher... but they will suffer from this new system a lot and it will cost him money.

But yeah it would require a whole off season to set up this system and set plays to work correctly. You can't just audible into it and expect players to move to the right spots at the right time.

But it's time we set up a system solely based on Tatum to the detriment of other players numbers if need be. It's time for him to be put in the position to win an MVP.
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#9 » by sam_I_am » Thu Jun 3, 2021 4:15 pm

I’d rather he steal Luka’s willingness and ability to quickly identify wide open teammates and move the ball the way Luka does. I think he is getting better at that and believe he will get better at it even if he never reaches Luka’s level.
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#10 » by playa-hater » Thu Jun 3, 2021 4:47 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:So this is a classic I watched a game post.

But as I was watching the Mavs game last night, Luka was getting infinite no contest free floaters by getting the man on his back after a pick and roll (and this was against Kawhi or PG13 or Rondo in pick and rolls) and the defense being unsure if he was going to drive or not and not wanting to close out due to fear of lobs.

And with all these WIDE open, ZERO contact easy look shots being sunk in... I wondered why we don't see Tatum do more of this himself.

Luka playing in a pro league since he was a teenager may have lead him to develop this early (and growing up in a different basketball culture) but all of Tatum's looks are extremely difficult high talent moves. Triple Allen Iverson cross over fade away, spin move into a Kobe fade, drive to the basket to either euro and lean away from the defense or having to throw their jump off for a no contest layup.

But more and more now we want Tatum to have the ball in his hands as our main ballhandler. I think next year we may be transitioning away from a PG being the main ball handler and having Tatum be a facilitator like a true MVP kind of player would be for his team.

And I'm not saying our PF is going to be able to pass like one of the best PGs in the league, but from the man on his back position Tatum has shown passing ability in other situations that would translate to the same scenario he would have with his man on his back. Namely consistently over the past couple of years he is willing and capable to pass to a wide open man from a double (really drove this home this second half the season how good he's getting at this) which if someone steps up when he has his defender on his back a player on his team is just as open as if a double was covering him and even since his rookie year he's show the ability to throw a lob with great success and accuracy on drives.

So is this the next evolution for Tatum? Is him working on his floater with the man to his back the way he can keep the ball in his hands and generate easy looks that the doesn't generate now [url]for himself[/url] or for his team unless he's on fire and being doubled as our main ballhandler? I truly think it is.

I don't want him to stop doing his bread and butter and extremely difficult high talent level crossovers and fades, but this way he can get easy looks without using all his energy during a game and utilize his height and touch to take the defense out of the equation. And I think he's just as tall and strong as Luka. I think this just like how Luka was using it to destroy the Clippers defense is a goto move for the 2020s rules as a ballhandler of what you can and can't do on defense.


yes and no to this question. A floater is a skill for sure. But I like it more when Tatum attacks the rim and draws fouls. Also remember a poster saying Tatum has really improved his 5ft away from the rim FG pct. second or third behind Giannis and maybe someone else.

There is only ONE skill that Luka has the Tatum needs, and that is recognizing the double team faster and getting rid of the ball better. But part of that Problem is the Kobe factor (his idol)
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#11 » by BostonCouchGM » Fri Jun 4, 2021 5:04 am

celticfan42487 wrote:So this is a classic I watched a game post.

But as I was watching the Mavs game last night, Luka was getting infinite no contest free floaters by getting the man on his back after a pick and roll (and this was against Kawhi or PG13 or Rondo in pick and rolls) and the defense being unsure if he was going to drive or not and not wanting to close out due to fear of lobs.

And with all these WIDE open, ZERO contact easy look shots being sunk in... I wondered why we don't see Tatum do more of this himself.

Luka playing in a pro league since he was a teenager may have lead him to develop this early (and growing up in a different basketball culture) but all of Tatum's looks are extremely difficult high talent moves. Triple Allen Iverson cross over fade away, spin move into a Kobe fade, drive to the basket to either euro and lean away from the defense or having to throw their jump off for a no contest layup.

But more and more now we want Tatum to have the ball in his hands as our main ballhandler. I think next year we may be transitioning away from a PG being the main ball handler and having Tatum be a facilitator like a true MVP kind of player would be for his team.

And I'm not saying our PF is going to be able to pass like one of the best PGs in the league, but from the man on his back position Tatum has shown passing ability in other situations that would translate to the same scenario he would have with his man on his back. Namely consistently over the past couple of years he is willing and capable to pass to a wide open man from a double (really drove this home this second half the season how good he's getting at this) which if someone steps up when he has his defender on his back a player on his team is just as open as if a double was covering him and even since his rookie year he's show the ability to throw a lob with great success and accuracy on drives.

So is this the next evolution for Tatum? Is him working on his floater with the man to his back the way he can keep the ball in his hands and generate easy looks that the doesn't generate now [url]for himself[/url] or for his team unless he's on fire and being doubled as our main ballhandler? I truly think it is.

I don't want him to stop doing his bread and butter and extremely difficult high talent level crossovers and fades, but this way he can get easy looks without using all his energy during a game and utilize his height and touch to take the defense out of the equation. And I think he's just as tall and strong as Luka. I think this just like how Luka was using it to destroy the Clippers defense is a goto move for the 2020s rules as a ballhandler of what you can and can't do on defense.


first of all, he gets past his man via an illegal moving screen or using a blatant carry to get the defender to commit to challenging the shot he's legally supposed to go up with but doesn't. Keeping the defender on his back is usually accomplished by committing an offensive foul by pushing off with his off hand. And if he misses the floater the refs will call a foul and send him to the line. The game is broken with this being allowed and it's obvious the league protects Luka so he can be the next face of the league.
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#12 » by celticfan42487 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:44 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:.


first of all, he gets past his man via an illegal moving screen or using a blatant carry to get the defender to commit to challenging the shot he's legally supposed to go up with but doesn't. Keeping the defender on his back is usually accomplished by committing an offensive foul by pushing off with his off hand. And if he misses the floater the refs will call a foul and send him to the line. The game is broken with this being allowed and it's obvious the league protects Luka so he can be the next face of the league.


In that case I want Tatum to take all these advantages too.

Even in this series we've seen Tatum drive into defenders and have PGs swipe the ball out of him on drives and tie him up trying to power through or elevate over better atheltes and in the NBA his ball control isn't that of a Kawhi or LeBron type hands. It's great but it's not MVP of the NBA level like his side step 3s skill.

Luka looks like a 50 year old fat guy at a Boston bar and is able to be as effective as Wade or LeBron who do it through pure physical forces of nature and Luka is merely using this pick and roll put my man in jail set play system to the same effect.

I get that Luka is far heavier than Tatum and that helps this style, but Tatum is taller and more athletic.

Let's have Tatum take advantage of the rules. This guy got 17 FTAs on his 50 point playoff game and whines every time like he's LeBron so you can't tell me the refs are bias against Tatum either.

I know he's not a PG he's a PF... but I think we can do this and have 85% of all plays run through Tatum for this team next year with enough time and a new coach to install this system. And I want to see it.

It's time for Tatum to get these 28 and 9 and 9 seasons instead of 26 and 7 and 3/4 seasons. I think he can do this strategy albeit differently but in just as good as a way of Luka.

His version might looks more like 34 10 and 6 instead of 28 9 and 9 because I purely think Tatum is a better shooter than Luka and a better finisher at the rim because unlike Luka he can actually jump a little bit.
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#13 » by ZeroTolerance » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:46 pm

I'd like it if Tatum stole Lucka's fire in the belly....He should flat out punch guys like Kyrie and KD in the mouth and walk away...He's too dam timid to ever be a leader...And a leader is what he needs to be....Did he even have one single tech all season? ...Or even in his entire career to date?
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#14 » by Mr_Mojo_Risin » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:47 am

I'd like it most if Tatum stole Luka from the Mavs.
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#15 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:02 am

Mr_Mojo_Risin wrote:I'd like it most if Tatum stole Luka from the Mavs.


I mean, I think one of the more underappreciated things about Tatum is while yes he blossomed as an ISO scorer with the ball in his hands he actually still is at his best off ball and doesn't at all need the ball in his hands to get in rhythm.

So he'd actually fit with any ball dominate PG.

Not a lot of stars can say that and I think PG13 has been showing on the Clippers the past couple of years he's only a 50% yes and no kind of guy of if he can keep his touch without the ball in his hands. I'm sure there are others but besides like Irving and Kawhi and Klay there's not a ton out there.

It makes something like a Jaylen Brown for Damien Lillard something that wouldn't be an issue at all, whereas with a lot of players at Tatum's current level that would be a question of fit (that said Irving/Harden Nets tell me to go **** myself with worrying about fit haha).
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Re: Should Tatum steal Luka's floater game? 

Post#16 » by dans1230 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:26 pm

ZeroTolerance wrote:I'd like it if Tatum stole Lucka's fire in the belly....He should flat out punch guys like Kyrie and KD in the mouth and walk away...He's too dam timid to ever be a leader...And a leader is what he needs to be....Did he even have one single tech all season? ...Or even in his entire career to date?

I dont know if this is the reaction of playing with Kyrie as a rookie and having him in his ear, but Tatum definately needs to act like he belongs out there amongst fellow all star players. Seems like he wants everyone to like him and invite him to parties or something. He needs to start by leading his own team and make players want to play with him.

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