Kemba Walker Thread: Celtics seek to Trade Walker

[Theocy]

i dont think anyone is willing to offer anything now for kemba.

IF the medical team thing he's done we probably trade him now at a huge loss to avoid having to trade him later for a 2x huge loss later (or just stick with his contract).

IF the medical team thing he'll bounce back with 1 long summer he will be with us until trade deadline to prove a point.

I still believe in Kemba; the guy has been crazy unlucky it's not the lack of effort.

But if he's good next season by the trade deadline, he may not have much value because he will surely not pick up his option. This is the exact same conundrum the Cs were in with Hayward.

Man I just want him to be a 18ppg 6apg guy helping us progress to ECF and then everything can happen. Don’t know. Just feel bad for the guy.

[31to6]

Nah, it was like 85% tops. There was a contingent (at least here) against it for the exact reasons of what has happened the last 2 years.

As one of the very few dissenters I think that percentage was in the 90s. We should dredge up that thread some time while we wait for Kemba to age and retire.

At the time everyone was sick of Terry and Kyrie, Kyrie had just shafted us along with Al, and the fanbase was overwhelmingly positive about recovering with Kemba. It's simply dishonest for the overwhelming majority of fans to now say they opposed the signing. Just ridiculous

I don't think the overwhelming majority of fans are now saying they opposed the signing. Yes, everyone (organization and fans) at the time wanted the quick 'rebound' with Kemba since we'd just been dumped by Kyrie. I didn't want another high-scoring, no-defense PG and said as much, and hoped they'd go after Vucevic instead, which obviously never happened but I maintain could've been a better move. I rarely toot my own horn on a previous 'take' and if it's annoying I'll stop, because honestly maybe it *was* better to sign Kemba than to do nothing? (nah, I don't agree with that, $40M/yr is crazy)

Anyways djfan is dedicated enough to remember who said what, and I just spent 5 minutes searching the archives and found one post of mine before we signed Kemba, which I don't know how to format at all so this will probably look terrible (sorry) (I'll highlight my main, poorly-stated thesis in blue):

User avatar31to6

Re: Celtics General Off-Season pt 4: Talking Kemba til Septemba
1
Post#1258 » by 31to6 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:23 pm

sully00 wrote:
31to6 wrote:
sully00 wrote:

Kemba has basically gotten better every year in the league there is no real contract year argument to be made.

I think Vuc has been consistent production wise the team used him differently at times in his career his injury history is a bigger red flag half of his career (4 seasons) he has played 65 games or less. How does that get better with age?


I'll admit I haven't looked at his injury history. Good point -- I don't know what those were.

Appreciate your real rebuttals rather than 'Vuc is boring, Kemba will sell jerseys!' -- how did that go with the Kyrie experience?

It amazes me how few people are willing to look beyond superficial stats and highlights. Ironically last fall when Kemba lit us up I was one of the ones calling out people who said "scrubs always go off on us!". Yes he's now a 'star' -- finally, at 29, and poised to cash in. Not sure I want to pay him to take shots from our recent lottery picks for the next four years but if that's what Danny and Co. want then they know better than I do. I hope, for example, they have confidence he can be a better defender, and would be happy playing in a share-the-ball system even if it means a drop to his counting stats.


The other piece with Walker is that Brad has been terrific at getting PGs to take their games to the next level. I think Walker could become a better creator offensively with Boston's weapons and Steven's system. IT and Irving where much better with Brad than without.


Sure but after 5 years of scoring-and-no defense PGs ‘leading’ the team (in ppg) I have to ask is that the system that’s going to get us to the promised land? Because teams led by scoring PGs don’t tend to win titles. (I’d call GS a rather unique situation)

I grew up with DJ as the point guard. Maybe that’s why I want Smart at the point and let all the other wing assets we have slot into major scoring roles. I’ve seen the careers of The Answer, Starbury, Stevie Franchise, etc. and all those guys looked cool doing what they did and sold a lot of jerseys, but again I’m tired of watching teams built like that with Celtics uniforms on because when push comes to shove it’s hugely unlikely to get us where we want to go.

[cloverleaf]

i dont think anyone is willing to offer anything now for kemba.

IF the medical team thing he's done we probably trade him now at a huge loss to avoid having to trade him later for a 2x huge loss later (or just stick with his contract).

IF the medical team thing he'll bounce back with 1 long summer he will be with us until trade deadline to prove a point.

I still believe in Kemba; the guy has been crazy unlucky it's not the lack of effort.

But if he's good next season by the trade deadline, he may not have much value because he will surely not pick up his option. This is the exact same conundrum the Cs were in with Hayward.

Man I just want him to be a 18ppg 6apg guy helping us progress to ECF and then everything can happen. Don’t know. Just feel bad for the guy.

Kemba is a very fortunate young man. There are billions on the planet to feel sorry for before Kemba.

[ZeroTolerance]

But if he's good next season by the trade deadline, he may not have much value because he will surely not pick up his option. This is the exact same conundrum the Cs were in with Hayward.

Man I just want him to be a 18ppg 6apg guy helping us progress to ECF and then everything can happen. Don’t know. Just feel bad for the guy.

Kemba is a very fortunate young man. There are billions on the planet to feel sorry for before Kemba.

I'd just like to see a full time player....sick of part timers...and that goes for "Time Lord" too....what ever became of players playing hurt in big games?

I get the sense that the modern day players don't care about anything except getting paid....Good luck finding a Bird or Parish or DJ in the bunch....Sad commentary on the modern NBA to say the least...

[31to6]

Man I just want him to be a 18ppg 6apg guy helping us progress to ECF and then everything can happen. Don’t know. Just feel bad for the guy.

Kemba is a very fortunate young man. There are billions on the planet to feel sorry for before Kemba.

I'd just like to see a full time player....sick of part timers...and that goes for "Time Lord" too....what ever became of players playing hurt in big games?

I get the sense that the modern day players don't care about anything except getting paid....Good luck finding a Bird or Parish or DJ in the bunch....Sad commentary on the modern NBA to say the least...

I saw it as Rob Williams tried to play hurt and predictably reaggravated his turf toe.

McHale is the guy from the 80s you want to reference -- played the 1987 playoffs on a fractured navicular bone, and knew it, but knew they had a golden opportunity to repeat as champs. I remember DJ missing a lot of time with sprained ankles as he aged, no one avoids injuries in sports. I also remember IT picking one of his teeth up off the court and playing on a bad hip which led to him *not* getting paid, so not all modern NBA players fit your description.

[JHTruth]

Kemba is a very fortunate young man. There are billions on the planet to feel sorry for before Kemba.

I'd just like to see a full time player....sick of part timers...and that goes for "Time Lord" too....what ever became of players playing hurt in big games?

I get the sense that the modern day players don't care about anything except getting paid....Good luck finding a Bird or Parish or DJ in the bunch....Sad commentary on the modern NBA to say the least...

I saw it as Rob Williams tried to play hurt and predictably reaggravated his turf toe.

McHale is the guy from the 80s you want to reference -- played the 1987 playoffs on a fractured navicular bone, and knew it, but knew they had a golden opportunity to repeat as champs. I remember DJ missing a lot of time with sprained ankles as he aged, no one avoids injuries in sports. I also remember IT picking one of his teeth up off the court and playing on a bad hip which led to him *not* getting paid, so not all modern NBA players fit your description.

McHale essentially ruined the rest of his career by playing in '87. He can still barely walk right. That was dumb although you never know if you'll get there again, in their case no.

[Ed Pinkney]

I really like Kemba and when he and Hayward were both healthy the team looked awesome.

But if true, trading him for Jrue Holiday would have been a great move for the Celtics.

[Mr_Mojo_Risin]

I must admit I really dislike it when I read posts that have a go at Kemba for any reason, hate on him or his smile.

I understand and acknowledge he hasn't performed up to hopes after the first few months but there is not one thing I can fault about Kemba the man, his professionalism or will to try and fit in or be better.

It's simply a case of it's best for all if we can find a trade that suits everyone, but that's it. Kemba deserves nothing but love and respect, even if for basketball and injury reasons we hope for him to play elsewhere.

[JimmyPlopper]

I must admit I really dislike it when I read posts that have a go at Kemba for any reason, hate on him or his smile.

I understand and acknowledge he hasn't performed up to hopes after the first few months but there is not one thing I can fault about Kemba the man, his professionalism or will to try and fit in or be better.

It's simply a case of it's best for all if we can find a trade that suits everyone, but that's it. Kemba deserves nothing but love and respect, even if for basketball and injury reasons we hope for him to play elsewhere.

Good post. There are things worth being mad at. Facing an injury while you are an older player is not something where he should be blamed. It sucks but he has done nothing malicious. If anything its a testament to his character how he has handled everything so professionally like you said.

[jfs1000d]

The fact Kemba people upset report is BS. Kemba doesn’t have people. He has his agent and family. Lol. Dude has never had an entourage.

Kemba wasnt thought of as a high major until late in his high school career. He was t some 7th grad prodigy like Kyrie and other guys who were one and done .

He did t have the entourage around him because if that. Actually refreshing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cloverleaf]

As one of the very few dissenters I think that percentage was in the 90s. We should dredge up that thread some time while we wait for Kemba to age and retire.

At the time everyone was sick of Terry and Kyrie, Kyrie had just shafted us along with Al, and the fanbase was overwhelmingly positive about recovering with Kemba. It's simply dishonest for the overwhelming majority of fans to now say they opposed the signing. Just ridiculous

I don't think the overwhelming majority of fans are now saying they opposed the signing. Yes, everyone (organization and fans) at the time wanted the quick 'rebound' with Kemba since we'd just been dumped by Kyrie. I didn't want another high-scoring, no-defense PG and said as much, and hoped they'd go after Vucevic instead, which obviously never happened but I maintain could've been a better move. I rarely toot my own horn on a previous 'take' and if it's annoying I'll stop, because honestly maybe it *was* better to sign Kemba than to do nothing? (nah, I don't agree with that, $40M/yr is crazy)

Anyways djfan is dedicated enough to remember who said what, and I just spent 5 minutes searching the archives and found one post of mine before we signed Kemba, which I don't know how to format at all so this will probably look terrible (sorry) (I'll highlight my main, poorly-stated thesis in blue):

User avatar31to6

Re: Celtics General Off-Season pt 4: Talking Kemba til Septemba
1
Post#1258 » by 31to6 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:23 pm

sully00 wrote:
31to6 wrote:
sully00 wrote:

Kemba has basically gotten better every year in the league there is no real contract year argument to be made.

I think Vuc has been consistent production wise the team used him differently at times in his career his injury history is a bigger red flag half of his career (4 seasons) he has played 65 games or less. How does that get better with age?


I'll admit I haven't looked at his injury history. Good point -- I don't know what those were.

Appreciate your real rebuttals rather than 'Vuc is boring, Kemba will sell jerseys!' -- how did that go with the Kyrie experience?

It amazes me how few people are willing to look beyond superficial stats and highlights. Ironically last fall when Kemba lit us up I was one of the ones calling out people who said "scrubs always go off on us!". Yes he's now a 'star' -- finally, at 29, and poised to cash in. Not sure I want to pay him to take shots from our recent lottery picks for the next four years but if that's what Danny and Co. want then they know better than I do. I hope, for example, they have confidence he can be a better defender, and would be happy playing in a share-the-ball system even if it means a drop to his counting stats.


The other piece with Walker is that Brad has been terrific at getting PGs to take their games to the next level. I think Walker could become a better creator offensively with Boston's weapons and Steven's system. IT and Irving where much better with Brad than without.


Sure but after 5 years of scoring-and-no defense PGs ‘leading’ the team (in ppg) I have to ask is that the system that’s going to get us to the promised land? Because teams led by scoring PGs don’t tend to win titles. (I’d call GS a rather unique situation)

I grew up with DJ as the point guard. Maybe that’s why I want Smart at the point and let all the other wing assets we have slot into major scoring roles. I’ve seen the careers of The Answer, Starbury, Stevie Franchise, etc. and all those guys looked cool doing what they did and sold a lot of jerseys, but again I’m tired of watching teams built like that with Celtics uniforms on because when push comes to shove it’s hugely unlikely to get us where we want to go.

No, not "everyone" wanted the Kemba deal then (or is happy with it now). I keep seeing that claim on this board and it is just not so.

[JediMasterRevan]

At the time everyone was sick of Terry and Kyrie, Kyrie had just shafted us along with Al, and the fanbase was overwhelmingly positive about recovering with Kemba. It's simply dishonest for the overwhelming majority of fans to now say they opposed the signing. Just ridiculous

I don't think the overwhelming majority of fans are now saying they opposed the signing. Yes, everyone (organization and fans) at the time wanted the quick 'rebound' with Kemba since we'd just been dumped by Kyrie. I didn't want another high-scoring, no-defense PG and said as much, and hoped they'd go after Vucevic instead, which obviously never happened but I maintain could've been a better move. I rarely toot my own horn on a previous 'take' and if it's annoying I'll stop, because honestly maybe it *was* better to sign Kemba than to do nothing? (nah, I don't agree with that, $40M/yr is crazy)

Anyways djfan is dedicated enough to remember who said what, and I just spent 5 minutes searching the archives and found one post of mine before we signed Kemba, which I don't know how to format at all so this will probably look terrible (sorry) (I'll highlight my main, poorly-stated thesis in blue):

User avatar31to6

Re: Celtics General Off-Season pt 4: Talking Kemba til Septemba
1
Post#1258 » by 31to6 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:23 pm

sully00 wrote:
31to6 wrote:
sully00 wrote:

Kemba has basically gotten better every year in the league there is no real contract year argument to be made.

I think Vuc has been consistent production wise the team used him differently at times in his career his injury history is a bigger red flag half of his career (4 seasons) he has played 65 games or less. How does that get better with age?


I'll admit I haven't looked at his injury history. Good point -- I don't know what those were.

Appreciate your real rebuttals rather than 'Vuc is boring, Kemba will sell jerseys!' -- how did that go with the Kyrie experience?

It amazes me how few people are willing to look beyond superficial stats and highlights. Ironically last fall when Kemba lit us up I was one of the ones calling out people who said "scrubs always go off on us!". Yes he's now a 'star' -- finally, at 29, and poised to cash in. Not sure I want to pay him to take shots from our recent lottery picks for the next four years but if that's what Danny and Co. want then they know better than I do. I hope, for example, they have confidence he can be a better defender, and would be happy playing in a share-the-ball system even if it means a drop to his counting stats.


The other piece with Walker is that Brad has been terrific at getting PGs to take their games to the next level. I think Walker could become a better creator offensively with Boston's weapons and Steven's system. IT and Irving where much better with Brad than without.


Sure but after 5 years of scoring-and-no defense PGs ‘leading’ the team (in ppg) I have to ask is that the system that’s going to get us to the promised land? Because teams led by scoring PGs don’t tend to win titles. (I’d call GS a rather unique situation)

I grew up with DJ as the point guard. Maybe that’s why I want Smart at the point and let all the other wing assets we have slot into major scoring roles. I’ve seen the careers of The Answer, Starbury, Stevie Franchise, etc. and all those guys looked cool doing what they did and sold a lot of jerseys, but again I’m tired of watching teams built like that with Celtics uniforms on because when push comes to shove it’s hugely unlikely to get us where we want to go.

No, not "everyone" wanted the Kemba deal then (or is happy with it now). I keep seeing that claim on this board and it is just not so.

I wasnt here then, but I hated the deal. I really wanted Danny to pony up the pick that Brooklyn wanted to turn the Kyrie signing into a TPE so that we could then make a trade for Brogdon and a center (*Valanciunis).

Imagine

Brogdon
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Jonas

[Edug27]

Is it me, or are Celtics players involved in trade talk more frequently than others. And given Danny was the king of the "almost trade", this isn't surprising.

This is one reason I'm excited for a change of structure. Hopefully Brad has a much different approach.

[cloverleaf]

Is it me, or are Celtics players involved in trade talk more frequently than others. And given Danny was the king of the "almost trade", this isn't surprising.

This is one reason I'm excited for a change of structure. Hopefully Brad has a much different approach.

Talk doesn't mean much, but the "Trader Danny" reputation was swapped in recent years from accusations that Danny was too complacent and not making trades soon or often enough.

[Red2]

Im not giving up multiple first round picks to move kemba. I think he would help a team like the knicks so maybe theres a fit there. I guess i have to give brad a chance but making him GM is one of the dumbest decisions ive I’ve ever seen

[itrsteve]

Im not giving up multiple first round picks to move kemba. I think he would help a team like the knicks so maybe theres a fit there. I guess i have to give brad a chance but making him GM is one of the dumbest decisions ive I’ve ever seen

Disagree for a few reasons:
1.) He's not married to the decisions of yesterday
2.) If anybody has a read on internal personality mix matches, it's going to be him
3.) I trust his basketball mind to know where the deficiencies are

He has a crap ton of big decisions (or non-decisions) to make, more than happy to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[K For Three]

I have no idea if he's coming or going but I am pretty much done with player names. So I am just going by "K" now.

And K can stand for "kitty" as well so it's a total win/win.

Kyrie, Kemba......I have no idea who is next but I feel bad for him already so I won't doom the poor guy.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Im not giving up multiple first round picks to move kemba. I think he would help a team like the knicks so maybe theres a fit there. I guess i have to give brad a chance but making him GM is one of the dumbest decisions ive I’ve ever seen

Disagree for a few reasons:
1.) He's not married to the decisions of yesterday
2.) If anybody has a read on internal personality mix matches, it's going to be him
3.) I trust his basketball mind to know where the deficiencies are

He has a crap ton of big decisions (or non-decisions) to make, more than happy to give him the benefit of the doubt.

The knowledge of locker room personalities will be out of date very quickly.

He’s got a good basketball mind, but that’s only part of the job. Dealing with agents, targeting free agents, drafting shrewdly, negotiating trades, balancing short and long term planning, managing the cap… Identifying team needs and putting together compatible players is much easier to envision than accomplish.

[itrsteve]

Im not giving up multiple first round picks to move kemba. I think he would help a team like the knicks so maybe theres a fit there. I guess i have to give brad a chance but making him GM is one of the dumbest decisions ive I’ve ever seen

Disagree for a few reasons:
1.) He's not married to the decisions of yesterday
2.) If anybody has a read on internal personality mix matches, it's going to be him
3.) I trust his basketball mind to know where the deficiencies are

He has a crap ton of big decisions (or non-decisions) to make, more than happy to give him the benefit of the doubt.

The knowledge of locker room personalities will be out of date very quickly.

He’s got a good basketball mind, but that’s only part of the job. Dealing with agents, targeting free agents, drafting shrewdly, negotiating trades, balancing short and long term planning, managing the cap… Identifying team needs and putting together compatible players is much easier to envision than accomplish.

Do you think he’s doing all that alone?

[jfs1000d]

Brad is gonna be a good gm. He is a great coach though. But what ya gonna do?


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