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Crazy plan: Pelicans sign and trade Lonzo ball. They’re a young team that’s not all in yet, and Kemba could help their guys develop. They could use his expiring in a few years if they want to go all in and into the tax. We end up overpaying Lonzo by a lot, but we don’t have to give up any major assets and he can definitely play with the Js

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makubesu wrote:Crazy plan: Pelicans sign and trade Lonzo ball. They’re a young team that’s not all in yet, and Kemba could help their guys develop. They could use his expiring in a few years if they want to go all in and into the tax. We end up overpaying Lonzo by a lot, but we don’t have to give up any major assets and he can definitely play with the Js

Smart for Lonzo would be an interesting shake-up

Gomes3PC wrote:Honestly, the move you gotta do is call up Presti and center a deal around a Horford-Kemba swap. It probably means dealing a 1st plus a young guy like Grant or Romeo but you gotta do it.

Not only is Horford just flat-out better than Kemba at this point, he helps in a number of facets:

1. Shorter money
2. Gives us a legit center to pair with Timelord
3. Brings much needed passing/playmaking to a roster lacking ball movement
4. His time resting probably means he will look as good as he possibly can coming into next year

Then figure out a way to move Tristan for a wing or guard. He's at a reasonable enough number you can probably find some market for him on a 1-year deal.

Doesn’t get us better. Horford is done. I like Al. But I don’t think he is viable.

That is a salary dump. Where do we replace kembas scoring?

I would call Charlotte and get rozier back.


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jfs1000d wrote:

Gomes3PC wrote:Honestly, the move you gotta do is call up Presti and center a deal around a Horford-Kemba swap. It probably means dealing a 1st plus a young guy like Grant or Romeo but you gotta do it.

Not only is Horford just flat-out better than Kemba at this point, he helps in a number of facets:

1. Shorter money
2. Gives us a legit center to pair with Timelord
3. Brings much needed passing/playmaking to a roster lacking ball movement
4. His time resting probably means he will look as good as he possibly can coming into next year

Then figure out a way to move Tristan for a wing or guard. He's at a reasonable enough number you can probably find some market for him on a 1-year deal.

Doesn’t get us better. Horford is done. I like Al. But I don’t think he is viable.

That is a salary dump. Where do we replace kembas scoring?

I would call Charlotte and get rozier back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no deal where we are getting a real asset back for Kemba, and honestly he's less done than Kemba is. He had a nice year for OKC and while he's not a 34 MPG player anymore, for 20-25 MPG paired with Timelord, he will still be a net positive (especially if he's going against 2nd units). Think of him like how Gasol was for Toronto.

What this deal effectively gets is a rebalancing of the roster and cap to reload faster. Kemba's knee is never getting better, and we have no shot at a title with him carrying $36M+ of salary on the books.

makubesu wrote:Crazy plan: Pelicans sign and trade Lonzo ball. They’re a young team that’s not all in yet, and Kemba could help their guys develop. They could use his expiring in a few years if they want to go all in and into the tax. We end up overpaying Lonzo by a lot, but we don’t have to give up any major assets and he can definitely play with the Js

I can see interest from NOP but it would have to involve taking Bledsoe back, which would be painful to accept. Something like Adams+Bledsoe for Kemba is much more likely. Bledsoe's contract is only partially guaranteed in 22-23 so that would be the biggest benefit, as well as the fact as both of those contracts are smaller and a bit easier to package in a 2nd trade.

Kemba would be a really interesting fit with the Clippers. Balmer has deep pockets, so he can handle the money. Kembas deal is only 2 more seasons. It's not a bad gamble for them if they can't find another guy

Lonzo Ball is almost surely a base-year compensation guy. it will be next to impossible to do a sign and trade for him.

I think there is going to be a shakeup in Miami, and guys like Iguodala, Dragic and Dedmon will be shopped.

Gomes3PC wrote:

jfs1000d wrote:

Gomes3PC wrote:Honestly, the move you gotta do is call up Presti and center a deal around a Horford-Kemba swap. It probably means dealing a 1st plus a young guy like Grant or Romeo but you gotta do it.

Not only is Horford just flat-out better than Kemba at this point, he helps in a number of facets:

1. Shorter money
2. Gives us a legit center to pair with Timelord
3. Brings much needed passing/playmaking to a roster lacking ball movement
4. His time resting probably means he will look as good as he possibly can coming into next year

Then figure out a way to move Tristan for a wing or guard. He's at a reasonable enough number you can probably find some market for him on a 1-year deal.

Doesn’t get us better. Horford is done. I like Al. But I don’t think he is viable.

That is a salary dump. Where do we replace kembas scoring?

I would call Charlotte and get rozier back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no deal where we are getting a real asset back for Kemba, and honestly he's less done than Kemba is. He had a nice year for OKC and while he's not a 34 MPG player anymore, for 20-25 MPG paired with Timelord, he will still be a net positive (especially if he's going against 2nd units). Think of him like how Gasol was for Toronto.

What this deal effectively gets is a rebalancing of the roster and cap to reload faster. Kemba's knee is never getting better, and we have no shot at a title with him carrying $36M+ of salary on the books.

Someone please explain why 50 year old Horford's 14-6.7-3 on .538 TS% is a nice year but 31 year old Kemba's 19-4-5 on .558 TS% equals franchise-crushing albatross contract.

BK_2020 wrote:

Gomes3PC wrote:

jfs1000d wrote:Doesn’t get us better. Horford is done. I like Al. But I don’t think he is viable.

That is a salary dump. Where do we replace kembas scoring?

I would call Charlotte and get rozier back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no deal where we are getting a real asset back for Kemba, and honestly he's less done than Kemba is. He had a nice year for OKC and while he's not a 34 MPG player anymore, for 20-25 MPG paired with Timelord, he will still be a net positive (especially if he's going against 2nd units). Think of him like how Gasol was for Toronto.

What this deal effectively gets is a rebalancing of the roster and cap to reload faster. Kemba's knee is never getting better, and we have no shot at a title with him carrying $36M+ of salary on the books.

Someone please explain why 50 year old Horford's 14-6.7-3 on .538 TS% is a nice year but 31 year old Kemba's 19-4-5 on .558 TS% equals franchise-crushing albatross contract.

There may not be a huge difference, but realistically there may not be better options to part with Kemba. I guess I give the edge to Horford because his is a position of need around here. Also, his (and Hayward's) presence on the floor was a guarantee of better ball movement, the absence of which hurt us this year.

Gomes3PC wrote:

makubesu wrote:Crazy plan: Pelicans sign and trade Lonzo ball. They’re a young team that’s not all in yet, and Kemba could help their guys develop. They could use his expiring in a few years if they want to go all in and into the tax. We end up overpaying Lonzo by a lot, but we don’t have to give up any major assets and he can definitely play with the Js

I can see interest from NOP but it would have to involve taking Bledsoe back, which would be painful to accept. Something like Adams+Bledsoe for Kemba is much more likely. Bledsoe's contract is only partially guaranteed in 22-23 so that would be the biggest benefit, as well as the fact as both of those contracts are smaller and a bit easier to package in a 2nd trade.

As you said, Bledsoe is essentially an expiring so it would not be that painful to accept IMO

BK_2020 wrote:

Gomes3PC wrote:

jfs1000d wrote:Doesn’t get us better. Horford is done. I like Al. But I don’t think he is viable.

That is a salary dump. Where do we replace kembas scoring?

I would call Charlotte and get rozier back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no deal where we are getting a real asset back for Kemba, and honestly he's less done than Kemba is. He had a nice year for OKC and while he's not a 34 MPG player anymore, for 20-25 MPG paired with Timelord, he will still be a net positive (especially if he's going against 2nd units). Think of him like how Gasol was for Toronto.

What this deal effectively gets is a rebalancing of the roster and cap to reload faster. Kemba's knee is never getting better, and we have no shot at a title with him carrying $36M+ of salary on the books.

Someone please explain why 50 year old Horford's 14-6.7-3 on .538 TS% is a nice year but 31 year old Kemba's 19-4-5 on .558 TS% equals franchise-crushing albatross contract.

I think the biggest issue to me is Kemba isn't good at anything else besides scoring. So he's a negative player in anything where he is not shooting or actually creating his own shot. He doesn't pass well, he's not a great off ball player, he doesn't defend well in fact you have to cover for him. And the thing Kemba does best takes away from Jaylen and Jayson.

Al is not a great player. But he does almost everything decent. He sets screens, can play D, moves ball well. Doesn't need ball in his hands..

So essentially to me it comes back down to fit. Imo kemba isn't a good fit. Horford isn't a better player by himself then Kemba but a better fit with our roster IMO.

SuperDeluxe wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:

Gomes3PC wrote:There is no deal where we are getting a real asset back for Kemba, and honestly he's less done than Kemba is. He had a nice year for OKC and while he's not a 34 MPG player anymore, for 20-25 MPG paired with Timelord, he will still be a net positive (especially if he's going against 2nd units). Think of him like how Gasol was for Toronto.

What this deal effectively gets is a rebalancing of the roster and cap to reload faster. Kemba's knee is never getting better, and we have no shot at a title with him carrying $36M+ of salary on the books.

Someone please explain why 50 year old Horford's 14-6.7-3 on .538 TS% is a nice year but 31 year old Kemba's 19-4-5 on .558 TS% equals franchise-crushing albatross contract.

There may not be a huge difference, but realistically there may not be better options to part with Kemba. I guess I give the edge to Horford because his is a position of need around here. Also, his (and Hayward's) presence on the floor was a guarantee of better ball movement, the absence of which hurt us this year.

Respectfully disagree. There's a huge difference in production between a center who has hovered around .538 TS% for two years and a point guard who dipped to .558 TS% for the first time in years while scoring 5 more points per game. There's no point in dumping Kemba to get back another huge long-term contract guy who is much worse. Either trade Kemba for expirings or for an upgrade.

robdog_5 wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:

Gomes3PC wrote:There is no deal where we are getting a real asset back for Kemba, and honestly he's less done than Kemba is. He had a nice year for OKC and while he's not a 34 MPG player anymore, for 20-25 MPG paired with Timelord, he will still be a net positive (especially if he's going against 2nd units). Think of him like how Gasol was for Toronto.

What this deal effectively gets is a rebalancing of the roster and cap to reload faster. Kemba's knee is never getting better, and we have no shot at a title with him carrying $36M+ of salary on the books.

Someone please explain why 50 year old Horford's 14-6.7-3 on .538 TS% is a nice year but 31 year old Kemba's 19-4-5 on .558 TS% equals franchise-crushing albatross contract.

I think the biggest issue to me is Kemba isn't good at anything else besides scoring. So he's a negative player in anything where he is not shooting or actually creating his own shot. He doesn't pass well, he's not a great off ball player, he doesn't defend well in fact you have to cover for him. And the thing Kemba does best takes away from Jaylen and Jayson.

Al is not a great player. But he does almost everything decent. He sets screens, can play D, moves ball well. Doesn't need ball in his hands..

So essentially to me it comes back down to fit. Imo kemba isn't a good fit. Horford isn't a better player by himself then Kemba but a better fit with our roster IMO.

A 50 year old center is a much worse defensive liability than a bad defensive point guard. It would be difficult to find ways to trade Kemba and make the team worse defensively but you guys are somehow making it happen.

BK_2020 wrote:

robdog_5 wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:Someone please explain why 50 year old Horford's 14-6.7-3 on .538 TS% is a nice year but 31 year old Kemba's 19-4-5 on .558 TS% equals franchise-crushing albatross contract.

I think the biggest issue to me is Kemba isn't good at anything else besides scoring. So he's a negative player in anything where he is not shooting or actually creating his own shot. He doesn't pass well, he's not a great off ball player, he doesn't defend well in fact you have to cover for him. And the thing Kemba does best takes away from Jaylen and Jayson.

Al is not a great player. But he does almost everything decent. He sets screens, can play D, moves ball well. Doesn't need ball in his hands..

So essentially to me it comes back down to fit. Imo kemba isn't a good fit. Horford isn't a better player by himself then Kemba but a better fit with our roster IMO.

A 50 year old center is a much worse defensive liability than a bad defensive point guard. It would be difficult to find ways to trade Kemba and make the team worse defensively but you guys are somehow making it happen.

I have no idea how Al looked last year at Center on D, I do know he was once a very good defender who talks, communicates and could defend his position. I know the last 2 years have felt like forever but I'm not sure he's 50 yet

BK_2020 wrote:

Gomes3PC wrote:

jfs1000d wrote:Doesn’t get us better. Horford is done. I like Al. But I don’t think he is viable.

That is a salary dump. Where do we replace kembas scoring?

I would call Charlotte and get rozier back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no deal where we are getting a real asset back for Kemba, and honestly he's less done than Kemba is. He had a nice year for OKC and while he's not a 34 MPG player anymore, for 20-25 MPG paired with Timelord, he will still be a net positive (especially if he's going against 2nd units). Think of him like how Gasol was for Toronto.

What this deal effectively gets is a rebalancing of the roster and cap to reload faster. Kemba's knee is never getting better, and we have no shot at a title with him carrying $36M+ of salary on the books.

Someone please explain why 50 year old Horford's 14-6.7-3 on .538 TS% is a nice year but 31 year old Kemba's 19-4-5 on .558 TS% equals franchise-crushing albatross contract.

Because they play wildly different positions? Horford is a capable defender and Kemba is a total liability? And Horford didn't need to get rested constantly only to still get hurt when the playoffs came? Plus, Kemba makes $8M more than Al.

robdog_5 wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:

Gomes3PC wrote:There is no deal where we are getting a real asset back for Kemba, and honestly he's less done than Kemba is. He had a nice year for OKC and while he's not a 34 MPG player anymore, for 20-25 MPG paired with Timelord, he will still be a net positive (especially if he's going against 2nd units). Think of him like how Gasol was for Toronto.

What this deal effectively gets is a rebalancing of the roster and cap to reload faster. Kemba's knee is never getting better, and we have no shot at a title with him carrying $36M+ of salary on the books.

Someone please explain why 50 year old Horford's 14-6.7-3 on .538 TS% is a nice year but 31 year old Kemba's 19-4-5 on .558 TS% equals franchise-crushing albatross contract.

I think the biggest issue to me is Kemba isn't good at anything else besides scoring. So he's a negative player in anything where he is not shooting or actually creating his own shot. He doesn't pass well, he's not a great off ball player, he doesn't defend well in fact you have to cover for him. And the thing Kemba does best takes away from Jaylen and Jayson.

Al is not a great player. But he does almost everything decent. He sets screens, can play D, moves ball well. Doesn't need ball in his hands..

So essentially to me it comes back down to fit. Imo kemba isn't a good fit. Horford isn't a better player by himself then Kemba but a better fit with our roster IMO.

Saying Kemba is not good at anything but scoring is a bit inaccurate. As I've said before in other threads, he is a very capable passer and a pesky defender. Personally, I do not know why people give him such a hard time about his defence. He is much better defender than Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving. With that being said, there are very few top quality defensive point guards in the league. The other thing that people overlook is how selfless and much of a good team mate he is - that counts for a lot!

The problem with having Kemba on the team is that you need him to be taking a lot of shots and handling in a lot of possession in order to justify his salary. Given that Tatum and Brown have emerged as dominant scorers we really can't afford to have an All-Star guard on the team. If we do then we are: a) not going to get good value out of them because they are going to command a high salary, b) going to be an unappealing prospect for a lot of players because they are going to see their involvement reduced c) run the risk of of causing locker room problems and upsetting Tatum and Brown and/or d) going to need a point guard who has a pass first mentality and is willing to accept taking between 5 and 15 shots a game.

I wouldn't necessarily write of Kemba just yet. He needs to get himself healthy in order for us to evaluate him properly. Remember, during the first half of last season he was a averaging 25 points a game before he got injured. It seems to be a common theme in this league that as soon as someone gets injured then they are automatically written off without anyone taking the time to assess the nature of the injury and the player's willingness to fight back.

The last thing that you want to do at this stage is trade Kemba for players who are not of superior quality. Where does it leave you if you do that? You are much better off putting faith in him given that he is a 4 x All Star. In any case, it is hard to trade an injured player on a high salary so I do not think that this situation will eventuate. Brining Horford back in would be a bad move unless he is coming off the bench. While he is a good player, he is old and injury prone and we should be moving on from him.

Celtics should have been shopping Kemba for a while. Hopefully they can get a good deal in return but most likely they'll have to give up a first and take on an expiring contract like the Bruins did when getting rid of David Backes.

If it comes to having to give up too much to dump Kemba I'd hang on to him and play him as a 6th man (I know that depends on the coach, etc.), he did improve the second half of the season before the bone bruise. Ideally moving on (and I like Kemba a lot) is the best thing but not at the cost of making the team worse or giving up too many future assets. It's definitely not a trade or bust situation for me, if he can stay healthy until the trade deadline his value goes up, next year he is an expiring, etc. His value compared to his contract is less likely to go down as at least the contract will continually be getting shorter.