Who will coach the Celtics in 2021-22?

[31to6]

I'm not against Billups or Kidd if our front office is sold, but I also don't think their resumes would instantly command the players' respect. IMO the world is changing, and the league is changing, and more than anything else, all else equal, I think it is increasingly ideal to simply be relatively young and/or relatable. Below a threshold perhaps, I don't think accomplishments and status mean as much they used to mean.

IMO Brad was young, not necessarily relatable but a good communicator, and in recent years it felt to me like his actions as coach sometimes ran counter to his statements as coach and that loses respect regardless of who you are. Also, in general I feel like he tended to command respect by working hard and communicating well, and the stresses of the pandemic probably worked against that.

Billups and Kidd aren't real old, but are relatively old school IMO. Kidd was a great floor general, I'm not sure he was ever the leader he gets credit for, and I didn't think he was impressive in his stints as a head coach (I didn't think he was unimpressive either). Billups was a relatively smart guy and a decent if not good leader, but I wouldn't have called him a floor general. Neither player won more than one championship, neither player put up big numbers during their teams' championship run.

Um, Billups was finals MVP in 2004 when a team with 0 superstars beat Shaq/Kobe/Payton/Malone in 5 games.

Billups is 44. Udoka is 43. These are about as young as you're going to get in a HC candidate who's not Brad wonderboy Stevens.
Cassell is 51. Kidd is 48 and a sleaze.

Chauncey seems smart and relatable on TV -- he certainly communicates well -- but who knows in person? His player resume is the best of the bunch other than maybe Kidd (who couldn't' beat Kobe or Duncan), but Kidd is a sleaze.

Which other 'recent' HCs are former players? Ty Lue (bum), Steve Nash (2x MVP), Luke Walton (chump), Nate McMillan (underrated defender but far from a star), uhm.... Larry Bird (GOAT). Phil Jackson if we go back 30 years. Who else?

[playa-hater]

So the reasons I stated way back when I posted in the fire Brad Steves thread 6 months ago are coming true now about Billups. Pats self on back

[ILC]

Reason why I don't want Chauncey is he seems exactly like Bud, Lue, D'Antony etc in terms of stubbornness. Lue singles him out as the guy who worked and insisted the most on Paul George playing as a PG and handling the ball all the time. And I hate systems like that where one guy does everything, especially forcefully. And now Clippers are shocked because all their guys are so dependent on hitting 3s. Unless you're PG or Kawhi you're shooting 3s and running back on defense.

There seems to be a lot of insistence in today's NBA on forcing big wings to play like LeBron. Luka, Harden, PG and Kawhi this year, Giannis etc.

I want a defensive minded coach first and foremost. Defense wins championships and it is the hardest thing to get right. Offense will come along with great talent, but defense can take years to get right.

Always, always, always give me a Thibs or Frank Vogel over D'Antony or Budenholzer.

[threrf23]

Which other 'recent' HCs are former players? Ty Lue (bum), Steve Nash (2x MVP), Luke Walton (chump), Nate McMillan (underrated defender but far from a star), uhm.... Larry Bird (GOAT). Phil Jackson if we go back 30 years. Who else?

I mean, I think a lot of HCs are former NBA players, you just don't realize it because they had short careers and weren't very good. Rick Carlisle, for example. Most are at least former players. Even Brad Stevens holds HS basketball records, was a four year starter at DePaux, and a former team captain there.

[threrf23]

Reason why I don't want Chauncey is he seems exactly like Bud, Lue, D'Antony etc in terms of stubbornness. Lue singles him out as the guy who worked and insisted the most on Paul George playing as a PG and handling the ball all the time. And I hate systems like that where one guy does everything, especially forcefully. And now Clippers are shocked because all their guys are so dependent on hitting 3s. Unless you're PG or Kawhi you're shooting 3s and running back on defense.

There seems to be a lot of insistence in today's NBA on forcing big wings to play like LeBron. Luka, Harden, PG and Kawhi this year, Giannis etc.

I want a defensive minded coach first and foremost. Defense wins championships and it is the hardest thing to get right. Offense will come along with great talent, but defense can take years to get right.

Always, always, always give me a Thibs or Frank Vogel over D'Antony or Budenholzer.

I have generally gotten the same vibe about Billups in the past, I don't know if it's stubborness or something else.

Tho, your last sentence, Thibs arguably had more of an impact defensively as an assistant coach than as a head coach. And Vogel was an Obie protege, he had some good individual defenders to work with in Indy, I wouldn't single him out as a defensive guru.

[MagicBagley18]

Reason why I don't want Chauncey is he seems exactly like Bud, Lue, D'Antony etc in terms of stubbornness. Lue singles him out as the guy who worked and insisted the most on Paul George playing as a PG and handling the ball all the time. And I hate systems like that where one guy does everything, especially forcefully. And now Clippers are shocked because all their guys are so dependent on hitting 3s. Unless you're PG or Kawhi you're shooting 3s and running back on defense.

There seems to be a lot of insistence in today's NBA on forcing big wings to play like LeBron. Luka, Harden, PG and Kawhi this year, Giannis etc.

I want a defensive minded coach first and foremost. Defense wins championships and it is the hardest thing to get right. Offense will come along with great talent, but defense can take years to get right.

Always, always, always give me a Thibs or Frank Vogel over D'Antony or Budenholzer.

I don’t think Chauncey would disregard the defense at all, I think he emphatically preach effort toughness and communication on the defensive end of the floor. Wouldn’t be an issue with him at all imo.

I also think you need to shift how you view the league - at least in the short term. This is an offensive league now, great offensive is more important than a great defense right now. The way the refs call the game favor offense, it’s almost the complete opposite of how it used to be. It’s always been a make miss league but now it’s ridiculous.

You don’t need to be a defensive juggernaut or even really good when you can score the ball at elite levels. The league had historic offenses this year and more guys scoring 25+ points than ever. A team like the nets only needs to play like 8 minutes of solid defense in a game total to win because they can go on a scoring run and put pressure on u.

Chauncey will be a good mix of both offense and defense

[cloverleaf]

Gary Washburn

I like it if true.

Kidd is a sleaze and I'm not sure a 'former player' like Ime Udokah moves the needle much at all. Even Cassell's prime was so long ago, and he was kind of an underrated star in this league anyway. Chauncey is THAT GUY from a team that beat Kobe and Shaq, and there's not many of those guys on this Earth. Want to get Jayson's attention? Hire someone who beat Kobe in his prime. Bonus point for being a Celtic once upon a time. Bonus point for having a strong jawline and a cool name.

Good point. Billups was finals MVP in 2004 when they beat kobe/shaq/payton/malone 4 games to 1.

And he was coached on that team by Larry Brown, who some people think is the GOAT NBA coach. He definitely learned a thing or 2 from Brown as well as Rick Carlisle and George Karl.

That Pistons team was known for its defense, team play and the way they meshed together as a unit. It was like 5 guys truly playing like 1, rather than 5 individuals. That (tougher defense, more of a defense mentality and more togetherness/team chemistry) are all things this celtics team needs badly.

Plus, only 44 years old (7 years younger than cassell) means that billups likely a) can better connect with today's young players and b) his career was more recent so he can probably better understand the new/modern NBA and relate to the way the NBA has changed/evolved over the past 10-15 years. The game is vastly different from when cassell retired - it's almost a different sport. Billups retired 6 years after Cassell, though. Billups retired in 2014 so he was going against guys like Harden, Durant, Westbrook, Curry, Chris Paul, Lebron, Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard, Lillard, etc. he went against those guys quite a bit - a lot more than Cassell did..

Plus, Billups still (at least in 2017 when this article came out) feels disappointed that the celtics weren't more patient with him and we traded him before he developed into a star. Well, here's his chance to make it right. Rather than having the celtics be a franchise that he has bad memories of, and rather than us being his "what if" team, he can come here and change the narrative, and make it so this is now a city where he is beloved. This is his chance to flip the script and have Boston be a city that he thinks of fondness instead of resentment:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/02/04/gary-washburn-chauncey-billups-wishes-celtics-had-been-patient-with-him/1VsmgRC9cuyOU6pXThJxlK/story.html

He can make it right if he coaches here. If he goes to Portland, what then? He wouldn't be making anything right. He would just be another one of Portland's coaches. He has no prior relationship with the Blazers..the only narrative for him there is being able to help a star PG (Lillard) win a title, a guy (Lillard) who he used to play against when Billups was a player. Billups has seen Lillard have a great career, but a ring has eluded him. Billups senses that Lillard is losing faith in Portland - he can go there and save the day, help Lillard win a ring as a star PG like Billups did back in 2004..

Interesting that it has been pointed out repeatedly here that we generally are not supposed to discriminate based on race in hiring, but we also are not supposed to discriminate based on age, which I haven't seen raised as an issue.

[LoquaciousLarry]

The Celtics should hire Sam Cassell. Time to build the SamCassell

[Tatumfor2]

[moonie_mcgee]

I like it if true.

Kidd is a sleaze and I'm not sure a 'former player' like Ime Udokah moves the needle much at all. Even Cassell's prime was so long ago, and he was kind of an underrated star in this league anyway. Chauncey is THAT GUY from a team that beat Kobe and Shaq, and there's not many of those guys on this Earth. Want to get Jayson's attention? Hire someone who beat Kobe in his prime. Bonus point for being a Celtic once upon a time. Bonus point for having a strong jawline and a cool name.

Good point. Billups was finals MVP in 2004 when they beat kobe/shaq/payton/malone 4 games to 1.

And he was coached on that team by Larry Brown, who some people think is the GOAT NBA coach. He definitely learned a thing or 2 from Brown as well as Rick Carlisle and George Karl.

That Pistons team was known for its defense, team play and the way they meshed together as a unit. It was like 5 guys truly playing like 1, rather than 5 individuals. That (tougher defense, more of a defense mentality and more togetherness/team chemistry) are all things this celtics team needs badly.

Plus, only 44 years old (7 years younger than cassell) means that billups likely a) can better connect with today's young players and b) his career was more recent so he can probably better understand the new/modern NBA and relate to the way the NBA has changed/evolved over the past 10-15 years. The game is vastly different from when cassell retired - it's almost a different sport. Billups retired 6 years after Cassell, though. Billups retired in 2014 so he was going against guys like Harden, Durant, Westbrook, Curry, Chris Paul, Lebron, Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard, Lillard, etc. he went against those guys quite a bit - a lot more than Cassell did..

Plus, Billups still (at least in 2017 when this article came out) feels disappointed that the celtics weren't more patient with him and we traded him before he developed into a star. Well, here's his chance to make it right. Rather than having the celtics be a franchise that he has bad memories of, and rather than us being his "what if" team, he can come here and change the narrative, and make it so this is now a city where he is beloved. This is his chance to flip the script and have Boston be a city that he thinks of fondness instead of resentment:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/02/04/gary-washburn-chauncey-billups-wishes-celtics-had-been-patient-with-him/1VsmgRC9cuyOU6pXThJxlK/story.html

He can make it right if he coaches here. If he goes to Portland, what then? He wouldn't be making anything right. He would just be another one of Portland's coaches. He has no prior relationship with the Blazers..the only narrative for him there is being able to help a star PG (Lillard) win a title, a guy (Lillard) who he used to play against when Billups was a player. Billups has seen Lillard have a great career, but a ring has eluded him. Billups senses that Lillard is losing faith in Portland - he can go there and save the day, help Lillard win a ring as a star PG like Billups did back in 2004..

Interesting that it has been pointed out repeatedly here that we generally are not supposed to discriminate based on race in hiring, but we also are not supposed to discriminate based on age, which I haven't seen raised as an issue.

Conservative seniors need to organize . The Conservative Clergy of Color CCC is fighting MLB for moving the AS game from Atlanta to Colorado harming minority owned businesses.

[return2glory]

I’m reading some of the last few pages and scratching my head.

What does a good former NBA have to do with being a good NBA coach? It’s usually the opposite. It’s usually the role players or decent players that became really good coaches, with Bird being the exception.

K.C., Riley, Phil Jackson. A lot of NBA coaches that were successful never played in the NBA.

It’s usually the NBA stars that cant relate to most of their players. Just because Billups was the player player of the bunch other than Kidd, doesn’t mean he will be a good coach. I hope if we hire him, he will be the exception like Bird was.

[31to6]

I’m reading some of the last few pages and scratching my head.

What does a good former NBA have to do with being a good NBA coach? It’s usually the opposite. It’s usually the role players or decent players that became really good coaches, with Bird being the exception.

K.C., Riley, Phil Jackson. A lot of NBA coaches that were successful never played in the NBA.

It’s usually the NBA stars that cant relate to most of their players. Just because Billups was the player player of the bunch other than Kidd, doesn’t mean he will be a good coach. I hope if we hire him, he will be the exception like Bird was.

Agreed that stars often don’t get into coaching or do well at it. Chauncey was a grinder though, a high pick who looked like a busy early and worked his way to finals MVP. I don’t know, I just like him. We’ll see how it plays out.

The way you wrote it has me puzzled — you are aware that KC, Riley and Phil were NBA players, yes?

[batabatuta]

One ring in decades and 13 years still without a ring after that one ring, yup good thing we are talking about looking for a new coach and expectations on a new GM.

[return2glory]

I’m reading some of the last few pages and scratching my head.

What does a good former NBA have to do with being a good NBA coach? It’s usually the opposite. It’s usually the role players or decent players that became really good coaches, with Bird being the exception.

K.C., Riley, Phil Jackson. A lot of NBA coaches that were successful never played in the NBA.

It’s usually the NBA stars that cant relate to most of their players. Just because Billups was the player player of the bunch other than Kidd, doesn’t mean he will be a good coach. I hope if we hire him, he will be the exception like Bird was.

Agreed that stars often don’t get into coaching or do well at it. Chauncey was a grinder though, a high pick who looked like a busy early and worked his way to finals MVP. I don’t know, I just like him. We’ll see how it plays out.

The way you wrote it has me puzzled — you are aware that KC, Riley and Phil were NBA players, yes?

I was referring to those 3 as good role players and staying it’s usually the good former NBA role players that end up being really good coaches with Bird being that exception.

I like Billups too. That’s why I’m hoping if he is our next coach, he will be an exception because he was way more than a role player.

[Triple7]

I just hope they stay away from coaches with red flags. Lloyd pierce, Bud, Kidd, Fizdale etc. but whoever we get, then that is who the players want.

[moonie_mcgee]

I’m reading some of the last few pages and scratching my head.

What does a good former NBA have to do with being a good NBA coach? It’s usually the opposite. It’s usually the role players or decent players that became really good coaches, with Bird being the exception.

K.C., Riley, Phil Jackson. A lot of NBA coaches that were successful never played in the NBA.

It’s usually the NBA stars that cant relate to most of their players. Just because Billups was the player player of the bunch other than Kidd, doesn’t mean he will be a good coach. I hope if we hire him, he will be the exception like Bird was.

Agreed that stars often don’t get into coaching or do well at it. Chauncey was a grinder though, a high pick who looked like a busy early and worked his way to finals MVP. I don’t know, I just like him. We’ll see how it plays out.

The way you wrote it has me puzzled — you are aware that KC, Riley and Phil were NBA players, yes?

I was referring to those 3 as good role players and staying it’s usually the good former NBA role players that end up being really good coaches with Bird being that exception.

I like Billups too. That’s why I’m hoping if he is our next coach, he will be an exception because he was way more than a role player.

KC was a such a good role player he was inducted in the Hall of Fame. How about Wilkens, Nelson, Silas, Westphal...

[greenroom31]

I’m reading some of the last few pages and scratching my head.

What does a good former NBA have to do with being a good NBA coach? It’s usually the opposite. It’s usually the role players or decent players that became really good coaches, with Bird being the exception.

K.C., Riley, Phil Jackson. A lot of NBA coaches that were successful never played in the NBA.

It’s usually the NBA stars that cant relate to most of their players. Just because Billups was the player player of the bunch other than Kidd, doesn’t mean he will be a good coach. I hope if we hire him, he will be the exception like Bird was.

Agreed that stars often don’t get into coaching or do well at it. Chauncey was a grinder though, a high pick who looked like a busy early and worked his way to finals MVP. I don’t know, I just like him. We’ll see how it plays out.

The way you wrote it has me puzzled — you are aware that KC, Riley and Phil were NBA players, yes?

I was referring to those 3 as good role players and staying it’s usually the good former NBA role players that end up being really good coaches with Bird being that exception.

I like Billups too. That’s why I’m hoping if he is our next coach, he will be an exception because he was way more than a role player.

[return2glory]

Agreed that stars often don’t get into coaching or do well at it. Chauncey was a grinder though, a high pick who looked like a busy early and worked his way to finals MVP. I don’t know, I just like him. We’ll see how it plays out.

The way you wrote it has me puzzled — you are aware that KC, Riley and Phil were NBA players, yes?

I was referring to those 3 as good role players and saying it’s usually the good former NBA role players that end up being really good coaches with Bird being that exception.

I like Billups too. That’s why I’m hoping if he is our next coach, he will be an exception because he was way more than a role player.

KC was a such a good role player he was inducted in the Hall of Fame. How about Wilkens, Nelson, Silas, Westphal...

KC was a 7 points per game scorer in the NBA. That’s a good role player.

He was a class act and a born winner with 11 titles.

[Hal14]

I’m reading some of the last few pages and scratching my head.

What does a good former NBA have to do with being a good NBA coach? It’s usually the opposite. It’s usually the role players or decent players that became really good coaches, with Bird being the exception.

K.C., Riley, Phil Jackson. A lot of NBA coaches that were successful never played in the NBA.

It’s usually the NBA stars that cant relate to most of their players. Just because Billups was the player player of the bunch other than Kidd, doesn’t mean he will be a good coach. I hope if we hire him, he will be the exception like Bird was.

Agreed that stars often don’t get into coaching or do well at it. Chauncey was a grinder though, a high pick who looked like a busy early and worked his way to finals MVP. I don’t know, I just like him. We’ll see how it plays out.

The way you wrote it has me puzzled — you are aware that KC, Riley and Phil were NBA players, yes?

These guys are most of the best coaches of the last 50 years:

KC - hall of fame nba player
Lenny Wilkins - hall of fame NBA player
Jerry Sloan - 2x all-star as NBA player
Don Nelson - excellent role player as NBA player
Rick Adelman - good role player as NBA player
Larry Brown - bench warmer player in the pros for 5 years
Tommy Heinsohn - hall of fame NBA player
Bill Russell - hall of fame NBA player
Larry Bird - hall of fame NBA Player
Phil Jackson - excellent role player as NBA player
Pat Riley - bench warmer for 9 years in NBA
Rudy Tomjanovich - role player in NBA
Doc Rivers - 1x NBA all-star as NBA player
Rick Carlisle - bench warmer NBA player
Jack Ramsay - did not play at a high level
Hubie Brown - did not play at a high level
Erik Spoelstra - played college ball but not pro
Gregg Popovich - did not play at a high level
Jeff Van Gundy - did not play at a high level
Billy Cunningham - hall of fame as NBA player
Chuck Daly - did not play at a high level
Steve Kerr - excellent role player as NBA player
George Karl - 5 years as NBA bench warmer

Out of 22 coaches, we've got:

Hall of fame NBA player = 5
NBA all-star = 2
NBA role player = 5
NBA bench warmer = 4
did not play pro basketball = 6

[31to6]

Which other 'recent' HCs are former players? Ty Lue (bum), Steve Nash (2x MVP), Luke Walton (chump), Nate McMillan (underrated defender but far from a star), uhm.... Larry Bird (GOAT). Phil Jackson if we go back 30 years. Who else?

I mean, I think a lot of HCs are former NBA players, you just don't realize it because they had short careers and weren't very good. Rick Carlisle, for example. Most are at least former players. Even Brad Stevens holds HS basketball records, was a four year starter at DePaux, and a former team captain there.

Other 'recent' players-turned-coaches:
Steve Kerr
Doc Rivers
Scott Brooks
Monty Williams
Sam Mitchell

DePauw is a fake university, Brad Stevens made that up, sort of like Romeo Langford