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Trade Brown for who Poll?

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Trade Brown for :

Bradley Beal
30
15%
Dame Lillard
49
25%
A Sabonis
9
5%
K.A.T
30
15%
Donovan Mitchell
13
7%
No keep Brown
56
29%
*Other - explain
8
4%
 
Total votes: 195

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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#181 » by Celts17Pride » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:06 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:
Are we really arguing that 7 points per game is not an upgrade?
Also difficulty and increase in ppg do not scale linearly. It is much harder to go from 7 ppg to 14 ppg, than it is to go from 24.7 ppg to 31.3 ppg.

Don't forget the usage and FGA

Usage and FGA don't scale linearly. Semi is a 4.6 ppg scorer on 3.9 FGA per game. That doesn't mean he will become a 23 ppg scorer if you give him 20 FGA per game. He will be taking harder shots.

Brown is close to a 50% shooter with a pretty high usage. It's perfectly reasonable to think if Brown got 4 more FGA per game his average would be 4-5 points higher which puts him at 28-29 ppg.
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#182 » by Triple7 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:06 pm

ddb wrote:I love Jaylen Brown. He seems like a really good guy, he's incredibly talented, he works hard, and continues to improve each season. But with that said, Jayson Tatum is the franchise. The Celtics need to do whatever they can to build a Championship contender while also keeping Jayson engaged/happy.
As we all know the NBA is a business. Difficult decisions need to be made. I just feel like one of the difficult decisions that Brad ought to make is moving Jaylen Brown in a deal that lands Boston Bradley Beal. Then from there he has a lot more work to do. Beal is the more natural scorer VS Jaylen. Beal has the really close relationship with Tatum. Beal/Tatum will push each other, be marketable, and have enough star power to recruit other players to join them in Boston.
Beal/Tatum will play off each other much better. For as good as Tatum/Brown are, they really don't play that well off each other. Beal is a natural guard. Jaylen is a Forward playing Guard. Beal is the much better ball handler. Beal has the better mid-range game. Beal gets to the basket easier.

I just think we all overthink this. It's not everyday you have a special player like Tatum. And it's not everyday you have a wonderful asset like Jaylen Brown who's value is strong enough to help you land another superstar. And make no mistake about it, Jaylen Brown is NOT a superstar. He's a very good player. He may be a 4-5X all-Star. But he is not Tatum or Beal. He is not Dame.

I'm telling everyone right now. File this post for a date down the line. If the Celtics hang on to Jaylen Brown instead of trading him for a superstar, it could get ugly in the years to come. It'll be VERY difficult to build up this roster to contender status without moving Brown. He's the ticket to go out and really make a bold move. And if Boston stays a middle of the pack playoff team for next few years then Tatum will be gone right as he's hitting his prime years. He'll go elsewhere to win. Don't for a second think he wouldn't leave. These kids these days just want to win and be happy. This isn't the 90's anymore.

Get Beal and figure out how to build around them.


Totally agree with this! Jayson with Beal would be dynamic. A better fit. Much easier to put the pieces together. Just need a legit defensive big and an additional shooter and we’re set.
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#183 » by BK_2020 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:07 pm

Stan34 wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:I mean just to play devil's advocate:

Beal 31.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.4 apg, 23.0 FGA, .485 FG, .349 3PT, 22.81 PER, 27 years old, $33,724,200
Brown 24.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.4 apg, 19.2 FGA, .484 FG, .397 3PT, 19.95 PER, 24 years old, $25,312,500

Really isn't a huge upgrade here in my opinion. I personally don't think it moves the needle much and the Celtics have all the same problems and less money and assets to solve them. The only reason I would even consider a trade like this is if Jayson Tatum requested it.


Are we really arguing that 7 points per game is not an upgrade?
Also difficulty and increase in ppg do not scale linearly. It is much harder to go from 7 ppg to 14 ppg, than it is to go from 24.7 ppg to 31.3 ppg.
Jaylen went from 20 to 25 without loosing a bit

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His overall TS+ relative to the league dropped by 1 point. His 3PAr and FTAr both dropped significantly. He was also boosted by an almost certainly unsustainable shooting from the midrange.
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#184 » by Stan34 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:10 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
Stan34 wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:
Are we really arguing that 7 points per game is not an upgrade?
Also difficulty and increase in ppg do not scale linearly. It is much harder to go from 7 ppg to 14 ppg, than it is to go from 24.7 ppg to 31.3 ppg.
Jaylen went from 20 to 25 without loosing a bit

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His overall TS+ relative to the league dropped by 1 point. His 3PAr and FTAr both dropped significantly. He was also boosted by an almost certainly unsustainable shooting from the midrange.
Just stop. He played last games injured and his % dropped because of wrist. And he had to fight with bad knee tendone. You are a jaylen hater just as some other here.

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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#185 » by MagicBagley18 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:23 pm

Stan ; the term means a very overzealous and obsessed fan of a celebrity / band/ cast of a show or movie


https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Stan
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#186 » by ddb » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:39 pm

Stan34 wrote:
ddb wrote:
Stan34 wrote:So Bradley Beal became a superstar just because he is a Tatum's friend. Interesting

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31.3

REB
4.7

AST
4.4

PER
22.81
Stats? Playing with Westbrook in Washington. A team that play no defense where the average scoring is 130 points. He is a great player but dont make teammats better. He is a scorer. Stop. The infatuation for Beal is because he is a Tatum friend.

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I've always liked Beal since his Gator days. The dude can flat out play and deserves a better situation. He and Tatum have a good connection and that shouldn't be overlooked, but they would also compliment each other far better than Tatum/Brown currently do.

It's obviously a long-shot to happen, and it would be even better if Stevens could somehow acquire Beal without giving up Brown, but at the end of the day he's exactly the type of guy you want to bring in....he's also at the point of his career you want to bring a guy in. his best seasons are the next 4. four letters describe Beal....STUD
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#187 » by ddb » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:41 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
ddb wrote:
Stan34 wrote:So Bradley Beal became a superstar just because he is a Tatum's friend. Interesting

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31.3

REB
4.7

AST
4.4

PER
22.81

I mean just to play devil's advocate:

Beal 31.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.4 apg, 23.0 FGA, .485 FG, .349 3PT, 22.81 PER, 27 years old, $33,724,200
Brown 24.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.4 apg, 19.2 FGA, .484 FG, .397 3PT, 19.95 PER, 24 years old, $25,312,500

Really isn't a huge upgrade here in my opinion. I personally don't think it moves the needle much and the Celtics have all the same problems and less money and assets to solve them. The only reason I would even consider a trade like this is if Jayson Tatum requested it.


Brown is terrific. I'm not arguing against that. Stats wise I understand that there's no real leap....IDK man. It's just the eye test and being around the game for so long..Beal is a guy you're afraid of when he gets going. Brown is not. Beal manufactures buckets much easier...and don't overlook his defense. I'm not even looking at stats but I know that when he wants to he can lock people up. he locked up Tatum a bunch of times as well
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#188 » by ddb » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:44 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:I mean just to play devil's advocate:

Beal 31.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.4 apg, 23.0 FGA, .485 FG, .349 3PT, 22.81 PER, 27 years old, $33,724,200
Brown 24.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.4 apg, 19.2 FGA, .484 FG, .397 3PT, 19.95 PER, 24 years old, $25,312,500

Really isn't a huge upgrade here in my opinion. I personally don't think it moves the needle much and the Celtics have all the same problems and less money and assets to solve them. The only reason I would even consider a trade like this is if Jayson Tatum requested it.


Something that has to be taken into account when comparing numbers, Beal did that while being the primary focus of the other teams defense, which just isn’t the case with Jaylen. What would Beal’s numbers look like in that scenario? Similar points, way higher efficiency I’d guess.

I'm not saying Brown is better than Beal. I'm just saying for the additional assets that you have to give up with Brown to get Beal it's just not that much of an upgrade. Celtics have glaring needs all over the place and replacing Brown with Beal you still would have all the same problems but less money and assets to have at your fingertips to address those needs. It isn't worth it to me. Just my opinion.


the difference between Jaylen Brown and Bradley Beal....both terrific players. Beal in a winning situation, perhaps Boston, is capable of being a league MVP. Jaylen Brown is not capable of being a league MVP. Tatum/Beal could BOTH be league MVP candidates in the years coming. on the same damn team.
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#189 » by luckycharms » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:22 pm

ddb is spot on here. I loves me some Jaylen Brown but the unfortunate fact is that you have to give up someone decent to make trades. It has to be at least reasonably tempting with some upside for the other team. Anyone on the Spurs that we covet because it seems to me Pops was pretty high on Jaylen? Need some rumors!!
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#190 » by Patsfan1081 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:15 pm

ddb wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:
ddb wrote:
31.3

REB
4.7

AST
4.4

PER
22.81

I mean just to play devil's advocate:

Beal 31.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.4 apg, 23.0 FGA, .485 FG, .349 3PT, 22.81 PER, 27 years old, $33,724,200
Brown 24.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.4 apg, 19.2 FGA, .484 FG, .397 3PT, 19.95 PER, 24 years old, $25,312,500

Really isn't a huge upgrade here in my opinion. I personally don't think it moves the needle much and the Celtics have all the same problems and less money and assets to solve them. The only reason I would even consider a trade like this is if Jayson Tatum requested it.


Brown is terrific. I'm not arguing against that. Stats wise I understand that there's no real leap....IDK man. It's just the eye test and being around the game for so long..Beal is a guy you're afraid of when he gets going. Brown is not. Beal manufactures buckets much easier...and don't overlook his defense. I'm not even looking at stats but I know that when he wants to he can lock people up. he locked up Tatum a bunch of times as well



Where people afraid of Beal going off when he was Brown’s age though?
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#191 » by Saint Lazarus » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:44 am

ddb wrote:I love Jaylen Brown. He seems like a really good guy, he's incredibly talented, he works hard, and continues to improve each season. But with that said, Jayson Tatum is the franchise. The Celtics need to do whatever they can to build a Championship contender while also keeping Jayson engaged/happy.
As we all know the NBA is a business. Difficult decisions need to be made. I just feel like one of the difficult decisions that Brad ought to make is moving Jaylen Brown in a deal that lands Boston Bradley Beal. Then from there he has a lot more work to do. Beal is the more natural scorer VS Jaylen. Beal has the really close relationship with Tatum. Beal/Tatum will push each other, be marketable, and have enough star power to recruit other players to join them in Boston.
Beal/Tatum will play off each other much better. For as good as Tatum/Brown are, they really don't play that well off each other. Beal is a natural guard. Jaylen is a Forward playing Guard. Beal is the much better ball handler. Beal has the better mid-range game. Beal gets to the basket easier.

I just think we all overthink this. It's not everyday you have a special player like Tatum. And it's not everyday you have a wonderful asset like Jaylen Brown who's value is strong enough to help you land another superstar. And make no mistake about it, Jaylen Brown is NOT a superstar. He's a very good player. He may be a 4-5X all-Star. But he is not Tatum or Beal. He is not Dame.

I'm telling everyone right now. File this post for a date down the line. If the Celtics hang on to Jaylen Brown instead of trading him for a superstar, it could get ugly in the years to come. It'll be VERY difficult to build up this roster to contender status without moving Brown. He's the ticket to go out and really make a bold move. And if Boston stays a middle of the pack playoff team for next few years then Tatum will be gone right as he's hitting his prime years. He'll go elsewhere to win. Don't for a second think he wouldn't leave. These kids these days just want to win and be happy. This isn't the 90's anymore.

Get Beal and figure out how to build around them.



You wrote a lot but Beal ain’t a superstar lol
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#192 » by Saint Lazarus » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:49 am

The Comedian wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:
ddb wrote:
31.3

REB
4.7

AST
4.4

PER
22.81

I mean just to play devil's advocate:

Beal 31.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.4 apg, 23.0 FGA, .485 FG, .349 3PT, 22.81 PER, 27 years old, $33,724,200
Brown 24.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.4 apg, 19.2 FGA, .484 FG, .397 3PT, 19.95 PER, 24 years old, $25,312,500

Really isn't a huge upgrade here in my opinion. I personally don't think it moves the needle much and the Celtics have all the same problems and less money and assets to solve them. The only reason I would even consider a trade like this is if Jayson Tatum requested it.


Something that has to be taken into account when comparing numbers, Beal did that while being the primary focus of the other teams defense, which just isn’t the case with Jaylen. What would Beal’s numbers look like in that scenario? Similar points, way higher efficiency I’d guess.


Beal might be 10-15% better than Brown?

I’d rather wait a year and have Beal demand a trade here, then we just trade them spare parts and a few picks. Then that’s when you trade Brown for a superstar or a better fitting star.

Beal for Brown is an inefficient L of epic proportions.
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#193 » by moonie_mcgee » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:13 am

Celts should be able to get Beal without trading Brown if Beal won't go anywhere else. Hey other teams and stars do this why not us. I'd offer Smart, RWilliams, Langford and picks. I'd rather keep Smart and sub in Fournier but I believe that's not allowed. Too bad.
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#194 » by threrf23 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:06 am

Patsfan1081 wrote:

Where people afraid of Beal going off when he was Brown’s age though?


He was an all-star at Jaylen's age (as Jaylen was this season).
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#195 » by ZeroTolerance » Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:51 pm

Stan34 wrote:So Bradley Beal became a superstar just because he is a Tatum's friend. Interesting

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Is is interesting.....I'm sure there are a few Beal fanboys on this board.....Not pointing any fingers here...but the younger crowd tends to narrow the overall focus a might.....

I won't be disappointed if Beal wanted to sign here or wanted to be traded here...

But this team needs a guy who has some "fire in the belly" that becomes contagious through out the whole team....I'm not at all sure a "Tatum friend" is the answer...

This team needs more players who have a heart....and care more about winning than making money....

That's a rare find in the modern NBA....
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#196 » by CelticFaninLBC » Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:19 pm

Trading Beal for Brown does not move the needle enough. Sure Beal is a somewhat better than Brown now, but this team is still a really good player away from winning it all... Also, Brown's just 24 and has improved a lot over the past few years, and I see no reason why he can't continue improving, whereas Beal may be at his peak...

The best move is to be patient and hope Beal tries to force his way to Boston by the deadline. Hopefully either Nesmith or Langford have taken a big jump by the deadline, and Stevens can package them with picks, and possibly Rob Williams and others...
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#197 » by cloverleaf » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:56 pm

CelticFaninLBC wrote:Trading Beal for Brown does not move the needle enough. Sure Beal is a somewhat better than Brown now, but this team is still a really good player away from winning it all... Also, Brown's just 24 and has improved a lot over the past few years, and I see no reason why he can't continue improving, whereas Beal may be at his peak...

The best move is to be patient and hope Beal tries to force his way to Boston by the deadline. Hopefully either Nesmith or Langford have taken a big jump by the deadline, and Stevens can package them with picks, and possibly Rob Williams and others...


A team with the Jays, Beal, and Kemba would be a hot mess.
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#198 » by cl2117 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:51 pm

Dame is the only one I didn't flinch on.

Mitchell I think I would as well. Not a massive gap there, but Mitchell is somewhere between Tatum and Brown in terms of talent, I'd make the swap.

KAT I'm not sure I believe in, but there are some trades with Minnesota where I think the C's rework the roster enough to make things interesting.

Beal I think I would in the grand scheme of things, but alternatively I still think the C's could get that deal done without moving Brown. If Wizards are trading Beal it's because they have to not because they want to. Most teams aren't gonna unload the clip unless they know he'll re-sign and we've got the Beal/Tatum connection. I think a boatload of firsts/swaps and rookie scale guys can get there as long as they don't get cute.

My pipedream if we were to trade Brown is KAT/Rubio/Beasley for Brown/Kemba/Timelord. Then go to WAS and say you can have everyone but Tatum and KAT plus the picks/swaps. Core of Tatum/KAT/Beal. On paper it feels really balanced/easy to fill out.

Sabonis I say no. I just think Jaylen has a higher ceiling.

I think the only other guys I'd consider trading him for are guys that aren't ever going to be available anyway (Luka/Zion/Ball etc.).

I'm not looking to move Brown though. He's made such an impressive progression I'd hold out to see if he continues to rise and potentially either plays his way into the "untradeable territory" or just more value. He's smart enough to learn he's got to take off his blinders offensively and when/if he does he's going to get to the next level.
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#199 » by Brett43 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:33 pm

I think that if you trade Jaylen, you trade for someone that brings something you don't have. You trade for a high quality power forward (Sabonis, Randle) or Center. If you trade for a Sabonis, you are arguably trading for an inferior player, so maybe you get something extra out of that trade. And in the case of power forward, you do have Jabari Parker on board, though he is a question mark. He is still young - how good can he be if fully integrated with the C's offense?
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Re: Trade Brown for who Poll? 

Post#200 » by Hal14 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:25 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:I mean just to play devil's advocate:

Beal 31.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.4 apg, 23.0 FGA, .485 FG, .349 3PT, 22.81 PER, 27 years old, $33,724,200
Brown 24.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.4 apg, 19.2 FGA, .484 FG, .397 3PT, 19.95 PER, 24 years old, $25,312,500

Really isn't a huge upgrade here in my opinion. I personally don't think it moves the needle much and the Celtics have all the same problems and less money and assets to solve them. The only reason I would even consider a trade like this is if Jayson Tatum requested it.


Are we really arguing that 7 points per game is not an upgrade?
Also difficulty and increase in ppg do not scale linearly. It is much harder to go from 7 ppg to 14 ppg, than it is to go from 24.7 ppg to 31.3 ppg.

Don't forget the usage and FGA

Exactly. Need to look at usage and FGA.

Beal takes more shots and is on a crappier team - that's why he averaged 6.5 PPG more. Also, players typically peak at age 27, which is where Beal is now. Brown is only 24 so he will only get better and better. Beal has no more room to improve..

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