Trade Brown for who Poll?

[cloverleaf]

How is that half the teams in the league? 7 or 8 teams in the west + the celtics in the east = 8 or 9 teams. That's less than 1/3 of the teams in the league, LOL

Championship team or contender, who really knows what the OP said. Who the hell even knows who the OP even is, this thread like 14 pages long, lol

Once more disingenuous--the criteria by which you classified half the West as contenders surely included more than just the C's in the East that year. You brought up the C's specifically of course because this is a Celtics board.

The west was loaded that year, in 2008. 9 teams won 50+ games and they were all bunched up in the standings, it was a dog fight which is why pretty much all 9 of then could be considered contenders.

The east was the total opposite.

"the criteria by which you classified half the West as contenders surely included more than just the C's in the East that year. You brought up the C's specifically of course because this is a Celtics board." You're making that assumption and i don't know why. Again, the west was loaded that year, the east was not. Obviously there wasn't nearly as many contenders that year in the east. I mentioned the celtics NOT because this is a celtics board but because we won the title that year so obviously we were a contender, lol

Oh and people have been using the term "contender" rather than championship team, see below:

It is fools gold to think you can build a real contender with a bunch of above average players as opposed to doing whatever you can to put elite players on your roster. Anyone who's followed this team (or NBA) the last 8 years knows this. This org has to do whatever it takes to pair another legit stud with Tatum and Brown is on the short list of bait you can use for that

(and yes I'm saying Brown is too limited to be a high level 2nd option for a contender, maybe he proves wrong but I doubt it)

The quoted post above also uses the term "2nd option" which implies second scoring option rather than 2nd best player on the team.

And that wasn't the OP like you said it was. The OP of this thread was playa-hater, and I don't believe he has posted in this thread in the past several pages..

It's pretty clear you wiggle in and around arguments by misquoting and miscomparing--just look at this thread alone. The OP eventually said he backed his position on Brown re: 2nd option, after that was how you turned around his original claim of "2nd best player", as a way of emphasizing the strength of his original take. Now you are claiming that in a year when the Pistons won more games than any team in the West, there were 9 "contenders" in the West, but the Pistons weren't a contender? A rather ridiculous position, but even if we take that ridiculous claim at this point, you are now arguing that a third of the teams in the NBA that year were "contenders".

[cloverleaf]

Brown for Zion? (With whatever to make the salaries match.)

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/262995/Zion-Williamsons-Family-Members-Want-To-See-Him-On-Another-Team

[SichtingLives]

There were a hard three contenders in 2008. Who was the 4th? 5th? 6th? 7th? 8th? 9th? lol you don't even remember that year do you, you literally just pulled up team records. Credibility and you, oil and water.

Also if you're going to pitch a histrionic fit, report posts, threaten to block posters because you can't support your inane rambling against being called out on it...don't turn around and quote those same people. Makes you come off like your word means nothing. Not my rules, thats another one of those commonly accepted things that you lost your mind trying to understand last time.

[Hal14]

There were a hard three contenders in 2008. Who was the 4th? 5th? 6th? 7th? 8th? 9th?

The west was literally WIDE open that year with 9 teams who won 50+ games. You say there was only 3 contenders that year? LMAO. Which team(s) from the west were included in that? I guarantee that team(s) was in a dog fight all year battling it out in the west with a bunch of other teams who were also contenders.

Since there was 9 teams who won 50+ games that year who were all bunched up together, in a dog fight, not much at all separating any of them. Plus Celtics and Pistons that's 11. So I'm actually being conservative in saying there was 8 or 9 contenders that year.

But again, whether a team is a contender or not...and how many teams were a contender during a given season is subjective. And this thread is getting a little ridiculous at this point with much of the debate becoming about semantics and splitting hairs.

Also if you're going to pitch a histrionic fit, report posts, threaten to block posters because you can't support your inane rambling against being called out on it...don't turn around and quote those same people. Makes you come off like your word means nothing. Not my rules, thats another one of those commonly accepted things that you lost your mind trying to understand last time.

Cool story bro. I'll keep that in mind but you mind want to leave the whole bossing people around about what/how they should be posting to, you know, um...moderators.

[Feed Your Head]

There were a hard three contenders in 2008. Who was the 4th? 5th? 6th? 7th? 8th? 9th?

The west was literally WIDE open that year with 9 teams who won 50+ games. You say there was only 3 contenders that year? LMAO. Which team(s) from the west were included in that? I guarantee that team(s) was in a dog fight all year battling it out in the west with a bunch of other teams who were also contenders.

Since there was 9 teams who won 50+ games that year who were all bunched up together, in a dog fight, not much at all separating any of them. Plus Celtics and Pistons that's 11. So I'm actually being conservative in saying there was 8 or 9 contenders that year.

But again, whether a team is a contender or not...and how many teams were a contender during a given season is subjective. And this thread is getting a little ridiculous at this point with much of the debate becoming about semantics and splitting hairs.

Also if you're going to pitch a histrionic fit, report posts, threaten to block posters because you can't support your inane rambling against being called out on it...don't turn around and quote those same people. Makes you come off like your word means nothing. Not my rules, thats another one of those commonly accepted things that you lost your mind trying to understand last time.

Cool story bro. I'll keep that in mind but you mind want to leave the whole bossing people around about what/how they should be posting to, you know, um...moderators.

Have a good one, troll.

If you’re going to try to change everyone’s mind, you’re going to get a ton of pushback. I told one poster to chill in response to you, but this is what will always happen on a forum, when a poster has an opinion that most disagree with.

[SichtingLives]

There were a hard three contenders in 2008. Who was the 4th? 5th? 6th? 7th? 8th? 9th?

The west was literally WIDE open that year with 9 teams who won 50+ games. You say there was only 3 contenders that year? LMAO. Which team(s) from the west were included in that? I guarantee that team(s) was in a dog fight all year battling it out in the west with a bunch of other teams who were also contenders.

you didn't even follow that season and you just admitted it. Because if you did you'd know that no one in the league had a shot in hell beating the Lakers, Pistons and Celtics in 7 game series (and what to do you know, only one of those teams actually took out the other two contenders, not any of your phony baloney teams) Full stop - you don't know what "contender" means, clearly. can't discuss a topic with someone who doesn't do the coursework. moving on...

Since there was 9 teams who won 50+ games that year who were all bunched up together, in a dog fight, not much at all separating any of them. Plus Celtics and Pistons that's 11. So I'm actually being conservative in saying there was 8 or 9 contenders that year.

No what you're doing here is just doubling down on boasting about not understanding something. Eleven is it? Wanna try 16? You're so close to "every team that makes the playoffs is a contender" you should just go the extra 28% and be done with it.

But again, whether a team is a contender or not

got to know what it means thoooo...

and how many teams were a contender during a given season is subjective.

objective if you follow the season but point understood, you didn't and don't, think this one is fit for burial moving on

And this thread is getting a little ridiculous at this point with much of the debate becoming about semantics and splitting hairs.

yikes....literally you doing that and no one else. diverting, tangents, goalposts, making things up and lashing out with insults.... all of it. self awareness is a virtue

Cool story bro. I'll keep that in mind but you mind want to leave the whole bossing people around about what/how they should be posting to, you know, um...moderators.

Have a good one, troll.

You quoted me, bobo. Twice. You brought me into your manic tizzy then got mad when I responded. Told me you "blocked" me (lul) I don't even know who you are, and jmo but of all the known posters here you don't even rate, just another passerthru who will be gone like many before and probably just another pbp with an axe to grind. You can post however you want. But if your posts stink don't get mad at the people holding their noses.

Now make your case that the Nuggets were contenders in 08. You were so sure of it. I WANT DETAILS.

[Hal14]

you are claiming that in a year when the Pistons won more games than any team in the West, there were 9 "contenders" in the West, but the Pistons weren't a contender? A rather ridiculous position, but even if we take that ridiculous claim at this point, you are now arguing that a third of the teams in the NBA that year were "contenders".

1) I never claimed the Pistons weren't a contender that year, just that the west had 9 teams who won 50+ games that year who were all bunched up in a dogfight and that at least 7 or 8 of those 9 teams could be considered a contender + celtics since they won the title. That's it, that's all I said, I didn't say anything about whether the pistons were or were not contenders - you seem to keep making assumptions and jumping to conclusions
2) The Pistons may have won more games than some of those 50+ win teams in the west but that's because they were playing in the far weaker east which means they had a far easier schedule than the teams out west. You can't just say Team A was better than Team B simply because team A had a better record, especially if team Team A played in a much easier conference so they played a much easier schedule
3) 8 or 9 teams out of 30 is a 1/3 of the teams? Hmm, that's some interesting math, lol
4) Admittedly 2008 was a little bit of an outlier year, with more really good teams than most years - which is why in one of my posts I said how typically there's 4-7 teams who could be considered a contender (there was at least 7 this year)...

[OBisHalJordan]

I love Brown and wouldn't trade him for anyone listed in the poll, especially Lillard (who I like) but I'm done with scoring PGs especially one that's 30.

That said, if I was Stevens I'd call up New Orleans right now see if there's any legs to those Zion Williamson rumors. Maybe start with Brown, Smart, R. Williams for Williamson and Adams?

[ddb]

I love Brown and wouldn't trade him for anyone listed in the poll, especially Lillard (who I like) but I'm done with scoring PGs especially one that's 30.

That said, if I was Stevens I'd call up New Orleans right now see if there's any legs to those Zion Williamson rumors. Maybe start with Brown, Smart, R. Williams for Williamson and Adams?

Worth a phone call. In all likelihood NOLA keeps Zion and works to repair the relationship. No reason to trade him just yet. However, a phone call never hurts. NOLA would most likely want Tatum in return. Boston wouldn't do that. The package from Boston would have to start with Brown/Smart/Nesmith and multiple first round picks. I just can't see any sort of deal happening this early in Zion's tenure in NOLA. They will let this play out further. Winning cures and they have a lot of talent down there. Just need to tweak a few things, make a couple moves, and they could be the next Suns within a year or two.

[MagicBagley18]

9 contenders

[MagicBagley18]

1) You're just guessing. You have nothing of substance to base that opinion on. Tatum signed a 4 year extension which begins next season so he's under contract for 4 more years. So if you think he's "outta here" in 3 years, that means you think he will request a trade. You say that as if it's a forgone conclusion, as if no NBA player has ever stayed loyal to the team they started out with. But you're wrong - here's a few stars who stayed with their team past the age of 26 (Tatum will be 26 in 3 years and you are saying that without question tatum will request a trade in 3 years if we're not serious contenders)

Dirk - didn't request a trade, stayed with Dallas, got to the finals at age 27
Jordan - didn't request a trade, stayed with bulls, got to the finals at age 27
Lillard - didn't request a trade, still in Portland at age 30
Ewing - didn't request a trade, stayed with knicks, got to the finals at age 31
Pierce - didn't request a trade, stayed with celtics, got to the finals at age 30
Barkley - requested a trade out of Philly because they couldn't give him a good enough supporting cast but it wasn't until he was 29 (Tatum has 6 more years to go!)
Payton - didn't request a trade, stayed with sonics, got to the finals at age 27
Reggie Miller - didn't request a trade, stayed with pacers, got to the finals at age 34
David Robinson - didn't request a trade, stayed with spurs, got to the finals at age 33
Karl Malone - didn't request a trade, stayed with Jazz, got to the finals at age 34
Westbrook - requested a trade out of Oklahoma City but it wasn't until he was 30 (Tatum has 7 more years to go!)
Garnett - requested a trade out of Minnesota because they couldn't give him a good enough supporting cast but it wasn't until he was 30 (Tatum has 7 more years to go!)
Beal - didn't request a trade, still in washington at age 27. You're saying Tatum will request a trade at age 26 if the team is nto a serious contender so by your logic Beal would have requested a trade a year ago - but he didn't - and tatum has already had much more playoff success than Beal has had, so what makes you think Beal stays until 27 but Tatum requests a trade at age 26?

2) I also never said that I don't think the Celtics could be contenders in any of the next 3 seasons, like you're implying. I absolutely think they can..we were contenders just last season and we're not far off from getting back there..


Huh?

Did you mean to say "2nd best player on a title team"? Yes, I think he could be and already listed off a bunch of examples of players who were 2nd best player on a title team that Brown is either as good as or better than.

I'm really just saying you keep Brown/Tatum together and add a 3rd star. Whether that 3rd star is better than Tatum or not, or if he's better than Brown or not, IDK..Depending on who the 3rd star is and how the rest of the roster looks, yes Brown could be the 2nd best player on a title team - or we get a 3rd star who's better than Brown and Brown is the 3rd guy, either way could work..

But you need 3 stars and if we trade Brown for a slightly better star, we're still left with only 2 - and that won't move the needle enough - especially given all the additional assets we'd have to include along with Brown to acquire a star that is slightly better than Brown..

Too long didn’t read

Thanks for yet another valuable, insightful contribution.

I'll be sure to dumb it down next time to accommodate your 3rd grade reading level

Speaking of 3rd grade why don’t u go report some more people

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

9 contenders

I think there are at least 16 contenders every year. People seem to forget that 22 years ago the Knicks made it to the finals as an 8th seed. Anything is possible that is why every single team that makes the playoffs should be considered contenders.

[MambaForever]

Thinking about Zion and Tatum playing together gives me wicked Shaq and Kobe vibes, but closer in age and both Dukies. For some reason I could see Brad making a godfather type offer this off-season. Would definitely be a Red type or move.

Brown, Langford, Edwards and 3 unprotected 1sts and 2 pick swaps for Zion and Bledsoe... Try to keep Prichard, Nesmith and Williams. They’d be perfect compliments for Tatum and Zion long term

[FlatearthZorro]

Brown for Horford.

Hear me out. You move Nesmith to the starting lineup, resign Fournier, and have Horford as the backup because Williams can't stay healthy.

Walker
Smart
Nesmith
Fournier
TT

Horford
PP
Langford
Williams


That's a solid rotation.

Unless the Thunder are coughing out 2-3 top 5 picks, I'm not trading Brown to them and especially not for Horfie. Brown is very tal;ented.

[Triple7]

Brown for Horford.

Hear me out. You move Nesmith to the starting lineup, resign Fournier, and have Horford as the backup because Williams can't stay healthy.

Walker
Smart
Nesmith
Fournier
TT

Horford
PP
Langford
Williams


That's a solid rotation.

Unless the Thunder are coughing out 2-3 top 5 picks, I'm not trading Brown to them and especially not for Horfie. Brown is very tal;ented.

I agree! Brown for Old man horford???? Oh boy! Our team is young, but we don’t need to get that old lol. Plus any lineup with Smart and Kemba together, is average at best.
Horford is one minor injury away from retirement. If Rob can’t play 90percent of games next season, then i don’t want any part of him at all. Most especially not a starter.

[FlatearthZorro]

Brown for Horford.

Hear me out. You move Nesmith to the starting lineup, resign Fournier, and have Horford as the backup because Williams can't stay healthy.

Walker
Smart
Nesmith
Fournier
TT

Horford
PP
Langford
Williams


That's a solid rotation.

Unless the Thunder are coughing out 2-3 top 5 picks, I'm not trading Brown to them and especially not for Horfie. Brown is very tal;ented.

I agree! Brown for Old man horford???? Oh boy! Our team is young, but we don’t need to get that old lol. Plus any lineup with Smart and Kemba together, is average at best.
Horford is one minor injury away from retirement. If Rob can’t play 90percent of games next season, then i don’t want any part of him at all. Most especially not a starter.

Now, I'd do Kemba plus protected first for Horfie. That I would do. But I wont do Brown, who's averaging 25 a game. Prestie would carry Horfie on his back to Boston if that deal is on the table.

I might think about Shai for Brown as Shai is more of a PG. Shai + one of them good first rounders the Thunder have for Brown, maybe, just maybe.

[Triple7]

Unless the Thunder are coughing out 2-3 top 5 picks, I'm not trading Brown to them and especially not for Horfie. Brown is very tal;ented.

I agree! Brown for Old man horford???? Oh boy! Our team is young, but we don’t need to get that old lol. Plus any lineup with Smart and Kemba together, is average at best.
Horford is one minor injury away from retirement. If Rob can’t play 90percent of games next season, then i don’t want any part of him at all. Most especially not a starter.

Now, I'd do Kemba plus protected first for Horfie. That I would do. But I wont do Brown, who's averaging 25 a game. Prestie would carry Horfie on his back to Boston if that deal is on the table.

I might think about Shai for Brown as Shai is more of a PG. Shai + one of them good first rounders the Thunder have for Brown, maybe, just maybe.

At this point, any player that can help us and won’t be a liablity would be better than kemba. Yup kemba for horf would be fine. We need a star level player if we are to trade Brown. and a big NO to ben “can’t shoot ass” simmons! We can’t have a player that’s a liablity to end games. Even with his talent, i would still pass on him.

[chrisab123]

Unless the Thunder are coughing out 2-3 top 5 picks, I'm not trading Brown to them and especially not for Horfie. Brown is very tal;ented.

I agree! Brown for Old man horford???? Oh boy! Our team is young, but we don’t need to get that old lol. Plus any lineup with Smart and Kemba together, is average at best.
Horford is one minor injury away from retirement. If Rob can’t play 90percent of games next season, then i don’t want any part of him at all. Most especially not a starter.

Now, I'd do Kemba plus protected first for Horfie. That I would do. But I wont do Brown, who's averaging 25 a game. Prestie would carry Horfie on his back to Boston if that deal is on the table.

I might think about Shai for Brown as Shai is more of a PG. Shai + one of them good first rounders the Thunder have for Brown, maybe, just maybe.

Thats a pretty good tank trade. Where is Tatum in the original scenario or is this Brown trade after they deal Tatum for Porzingis straight up?

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

I would have traded Brown for Horford but whatever at least we got our guy.

[BK_2020]

Now trade Brown for Olynik sign and trade.
Tatum - Olynik - Horford - Timelord - Moses Brown