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OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread.

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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#81 » by SuperDeluxe » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:24 pm

titlebound1 wrote:Make it a national holiday so it's easier for people to vote.

Where I originally come from (Argentina), all election days are holidays. There's a cost to this of course, but a fully functioning democracy is more valuable than a lost day of work. Here in Canada, however, election day is a working day (but employers are obligated to let people go vote and still pay for their time).

As for the voter ID, back in Argentina (as opposed to the US or Canada), everybody has a personal ID that you always carry in your wallet. You use that ID for everything, including voting. When I moved to Canada, I was surprised to see that there wasn't a similar piece of ID here. I use my driver's license in Canada as my ID for most things, but am aware that many people don't drive so I have no idea how they ID themselves -- I guess with their health card?

Do people in the US have an official card with their SSN? If so, couldn't that card be used as a voter ID?
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#82 » by LoquaciousLarry » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:32 pm

SuperDeluxe wrote:
titlebound1 wrote:Make it a national holiday so it's easier for people to vote.

Where I originally come from (Argentina), all election days are holidays. There's a cost to this of course, but a fully functioning democracy is more valuable than a lost day of work. Here in Canada, however, election day is a working day (but employers are obligated to let people go vote and still pay for their time).

As for the voter ID, back in Argentina (as opposed to the US or Canada), everybody has a personal ID that you always carry in your wallet. You use that ID for everything, including voting. When I moved to Canada, I was surprised to see that there wasn't a similar piece of ID here. I use my driver's license in Canada as my ID for most things, but am aware that many people don't drive so I have no idea how they ID themselves -- I guess with their health card?

Do people in the US have an official card with their SSN? If so, couldn't that card be used as a voter ID?


Yes, we do have social security cards that would serve the purpose but not with a photo. Some states require photo ID while others would be fine with just the social security card. There are other states without any ID laws as well.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#83 » by nic4747 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:42 pm

djFan71 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:I think maybe what is getting lost in this communication is that talking about privilege is not a sales pitch. It's not even an introduction into the real conversation. You keep saying to avoid that and get to the real convo. What I keep telling you is that WE CAN'T. And we are trying, man. Believe me, we are TRYING. Whenever we try to skip the "blame" part and avoid pointing fingers we are met with people who tell us that the issues we have are not really issues. It's like we're talking in circles here! lol

I don't want to speak for nic, but I'm definitely not trying to trivialize things as a sales pitch, and I don't think he is either. My branding thing was obviously a poor choice of words. But, what I was trying to get across is that I'm out there trying too. Talking to friends, family, bandmates, etc about these issues and the white privilege term makes it harder some times. That's all. Not saying it's not true by any means - it definitely is. Just that in my experience, if I avoid that term and talk about the systemic things and say we need more equal education funding, etc, I can get somewhere. If the conversations starts with white privilege, it's a lot harder to.

You don't have to avoid assigning blame, and I think the term brings attention to the issue, which is sorely needed. And, I'm definitely not trying to telling you or Shak or anyone in this thread how to talk about these things. Just relating my experience when I do.


Yeah I hope that using terms like those don't come across as trying to minimalize the importance of the issue. Words like "branding", "sales pitch", etc. might not be a perfect fit here but stuff like this is really important to think about when trying to communicate a concept or convincing someone to broaden their perspective.

djFan71 wrote:We've heard for years, but where was any actual proof? Republican secretaries of states approved the votes, the Attorney General investigated and found no widespread fraud. There were something like 70 course cases - all of which were dismissed before trial, or lost during trial. Literally no verifiable proof was found and accredited. I think most people take voter fraud very serious on both sides of the aisle, but there has to be substance behind the claims - just repeating them for years doesn't make them true.


The issue with a voter ID requirement is that ~10% of the population doesn't have an ID and in some cases it can be hard to get an ID if you don't have one. Sometimes you need a birth certificate which can involve traveling to the hospital you were at born and sometimes paying hundreds of dollars in document fees. So it ends up becoming a barrier that suppresses some votes.

I don't think there's an actual problem with widespread voter fraud, but I do think there is a perceived problem thanks to the previous president who undermined confidence in the voting system because he couldn't stand the thought of losing. I'm not overly receptive to the idea of fixing a fake problem but a lot of people seem to want it so perhaps there's an opportunity here.

A voter ID requirement could work if there was a federal ID that people could use to vote if they don't have any other ID. There would need to be a campaign to make this ID as easy as possible to get (e.g. when census workers go door to door for the census, have them also get people setup with this ID if they need one). If there was consensus that this ID requirement wasn't a barrier, and if you could bundle the voting ID requirement legislation with something else like the Justice in Policing Act legislation then I would support it.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#84 » by Curmudgeon » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:59 pm

SuperDeluxe wrote:
Do people in the US have an official card with their SSN? If so, couldn't that card be used as a voter ID?


Yes, but it doesn't have a picture on it.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#85 » by bucknersrevenge » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:32 pm

Tyakack wrote:Can someone explain white privilege to me? What are white people able to do today that I'm not just as easily able to do myself if I wanted? Are there certain laws in place I don't know about that makes it hard for me as a black male to succeed? I keep being told I'm at a disadvantage. Which is funny to me because I never once thought that growing up. The white kids didn't get special treatment. They didn't play by different rules. They were just like me.

To me that is more offensive than anything else. You're basically, in a sense, calling me inferior but, "Don't worry. We are here to help and make it right." That is the vibe I'm getting and it's almost comical to me. I'm not a victim. I don't need or want pity. I live in a wonderful country with endless opportunities for me. Nothing is stopping me from going out and being what I wanna be and doing what I wanna do. I can walk out this door right now and do whatever my heart desires. I love America.

America is so racist they elected a black president, twice *Half black but still*. Even though black people make up such a small portion of the population. Explain that to me. How did racist America allow that to happen?

Apparently the system is made to keep black people at the bottom of the ladder? It doesn't get much more at the top than President of the United States. This isn't against anyone in particular by the way but... This whole narrative that America is so racist, I just don't see it. Like, anywhere. That's my ramble on the topic for today. Bye now.


LoquaciousLarry wrote:I love this post. I was shut down from a work conference with students for trying to inspire minority students not to have a victim mentality but to look at it that if they have had a harder road with more obstacles, how much stronger and more prepared they'll be than others because of their abilities to take on and overcome amazing challenges. Without conflict, character cannot be built. I agree we should be focused on equity and equality in this country. I'm also proud to be an American where we can protest and have freedom of speech so everyone's feelings and opinions can be heard.



So...racism is now a hurdle to be overcome by minorities. An "amazing challenge" that builds character when you overcome it. :noway: ZERO African-Americans are victims. They are SURVIVORS of generational trauma and oppression. And despite being the human scaffolding and collateral damage upon which this country was built. African-Americans continue to excel, and contribute in every industry despite the obstacles that they have to overcome that most do not.[/quote]

LoquaciousLarry wrote:Racism has always existed and still does in many countries on far more egregious levels than here in the states. While it is still a major problem that needs to be addressed and continuously worked on, I feel the United States has been at the forefront of leading the charge in regard to pushing for equality. It won't happen overnight but I feel like this country has made a ton of progression over the years with leaders such as MLK JR among many others. Pandering and getting rid of Biblical standards has caused a deterioration of moral values in my opinion.


They killed those guys bro. They murdered them in front of their friends and families. And let's be clear about Martin Luther King, White people by in large were not mourning him when he was shot. A poll conducted just before his death rated him as one of the most hated men in America. But the Bible, IIRC does have some pretty strict standards about murdering people so you may be onto something there.

LoquaciousLarry wrote:I'm white but I know there are plenty of bad white people and plenty of great white people. The same for every other race as well as genders. Rather than judging on the basis of skin or sex, we should all push not to judge and if we do judge we need to base it off the content of one's character. This country is literally bringing segregation back with critical race theory etc. We should all unite and be as one and stop looking so much at the exterior of people but really focus on the interior and who people are and the qualities and skills that they represent. Also, we should teach of the progression this country has made and will continue to make rather than trying to tear down the efforts of many folks who are no longer with us that sacrificed a lot to continue the push to eliminate racism and raise awareness of the struggles we have in this country.


I hate to keep picking but this is Exhibit A on why nothing changes. You keep wanting to make it about good or bad people. White, Black, Brown, Yellow, Purples, it doesn't matter who's good or who's bad. Racism has approximately d**k to do with one's character. Racism is about power dynamics, social hierarchy, and most importantly, it's about money. Being a racist or not being a racist is a condition, not a character trait. And it's not immutable. It's a choice. Whether you benefit from it or not, whether you mean to or not, it's your choice whether or not to ACTIVELY work to subvert racism, or you don't. It couldn't be more simple.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#86 » by Andrew McCeltic » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:46 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
Tyakack wrote:Can someone explain white privilege to me? What are white people able to do today that I'm not just as easily able to do myself if I wanted? Are there certain laws in place I don't know about that makes it hard for me as a black male to succeed? I keep being told I'm at a disadvantage. Which is funny to me because I never once thought that growing up. The white kids didn't get special treatment. They didn't play by different rules. They were just like me.

To me that is more offensive than anything else. You're basically, in a sense, calling me inferior but, "Don't worry. We are here to help and make it right." That is the vibe I'm getting and it's almost comical to me. I'm not a victim. I don't need or want pity. I live in a wonderful country with endless opportunities for me. Nothing is stopping me from going out and being what I wanna be and doing what I wanna do. I can walk out this door right now and do whatever my heart desires. I love America.

America is so racist they elected a black president, twice *Half black but still*. Even though black people make up such a small portion of the population. Explain that to me. How did racist America allow that to happen?

Apparently the system is made to keep black people at the bottom of the ladder? It doesn't get much more at the top than President of the United States. This isn't against anyone in particular by the way but... This whole narrative that America is so racist, I just don't see it. Like, anywhere. That's my ramble on the topic for today. Bye now.


The black experience is not a monolith sir.

But since you asked. Here's a video of a White woman explaining it. Hope it helps.



Enjoying the optics of an old white lady explaining to a black man why he’s disadvantaged, completely contradicting his “lived experience” (which is usually treated as sacred).
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#87 » by Curmudgeon » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:50 pm

Maybe she could be the next coach of the Celtics. About time the NBA hired a female head coach.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#88 » by LoquaciousLarry » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:51 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
LoquaciousLarry wrote:
Tyakack wrote:Can someone explain white privilege to me? What are white people able to do today that I'm not just as easily able to do myself if I wanted? Are there certain laws in place I don't know about that makes it hard for me as a black male to succeed? I keep being told I'm at a disadvantage. Which is funny to me because I never once thought that growing up. The white kids didn't get special treatment. They didn't play by different rules. They were just like me.

To me that is more offensive than anything else. You're basically, in a sense, calling me inferior but, "Don't worry. We are here to help and make it right." That is the vibe I'm getting and it's almost comical to me. I'm not a victim. I don't need or want pity. I live in a wonderful country with endless opportunities for me. Nothing is stopping me from going out and being what I wanna be and doing what I wanna do. I can walk out this door right now and do whatever my heart desires. I love America.

America is so racist they elected a black president, twice *Half black but still*. Even though black people make up such a small portion of the population. Explain that to me. How did racist America allow that to happen?

Apparently the system is made to keep black people at the bottom of the ladder? It doesn't get much more at the top than President of the United States. This isn't against anyone in particular by the way but... This whole narrative that America is so racist, I just don't see it. Like, anywhere. That's my ramble on the topic for today. Bye now.



I love this post. I was shut down from a work conference with students for trying to inspire minority students not to have a victim mentality but to look at it that if they have had a harder road with more obstacles, how much stronger and more prepared they'll be than others because of their abilities to take on and overcome amazing challenges. Without conflict, character cannot be built. I agree we should be focused on equity and equality in this country. I'm also proud to be an American where we can protest and have freedom of speech so everyone's feelings and opinions can be heard.



So...racism is now a hurdle to be overcome by minorities. An "amazing challenge" that builds character when you overcome it. ZERO African-Americans are victims. They are SURVIVORS of generational trauma and oppression. And despite being the human scaffolding and collateral damage upon which this country was built. African-Americans continue to excel, and contribute in every industry despite the obstacles that they have to overcome that most do not.





If someone feels like their race is what's holding them back from having a fair opportunity or adequate privilege, then yes it would be a hurdle they'd have to overcome. African Americans are definitely victims in some cases. There are Mexican-Americans, Asian-Americans, White Americans that go through lots of struggles too. In my opinion having a victim mentality is never a positive thing and if you can inspire someone to overcome, that's what success is all about. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, as it is very prevalent in almost every culture in human history, but I cannot play God and make everything right in this world. I call out racism when I see it but I don't see other cultures or races as lesser than my own, thus I agreed with the African-American poster who seemed to have a similar mindset as myself.

Yeah the Bible is an amazing book, has some radicalism but also standards that were fought for and lots of valuable lessons. I don't think God ever wants a just person to be murdered or killed but thats just my interpretation. I think doing good deeds and treating everyone fairly is good practice.

As far as me being exhibit A on why nothing ever changes, I could say the same about your attitude as you view opposite cultures as less than or victims when I view them as being just as good if not better and my equal. We won't see eye to eye so have a great day.

I understand in America there are benefits for many for being white but I understand its a much more complex issue on a case by case basis. i think we should all be proud of our backgrounds and respect one another's heritage while seeing each other as brothers and sisters. My grandfather was an Italian immigrant who worked in New York City while going to school before fighting in WWII, he definitely didn't have it as well off as I do now. The Irish were extremely racist against him but as the country has progressed I never faced a fraction of what he did. There's a long way to go but America is a melting pot of many different cultures which is a beautiful thing to be a part of but needs to continue to be worked on by coming together to overcome things rather than segregating.

The best thing in my opinion is for people to hold each other accountable whether its me telling a black person not to use a racial slur against a Jewish person or Asian person or telling a white person to shut up and stop being racist when mistreating an Afican-American, Mexican, Japanese person etc. I respect your opinions though, I know on this board I'll be one of the few with this viewpoint but thats why I moved to Texas anyways haha
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#89 » by bucknersrevenge » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:02 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
Tyakack wrote:Can someone explain white privilege to me? What are white people able to do today that I'm not just as easily able to do myself if I wanted? Are there certain laws in place I don't know about that makes it hard for me as a black male to succeed? I keep being told I'm at a disadvantage. Which is funny to me because I never once thought that growing up. The white kids didn't get special treatment. They didn't play by different rules. They were just like me.

To me that is more offensive than anything else. You're basically, in a sense, calling me inferior but, "Don't worry. We are here to help and make it right." That is the vibe I'm getting and it's almost comical to me. I'm not a victim. I don't need or want pity. I live in a wonderful country with endless opportunities for me. Nothing is stopping me from going out and being what I wanna be and doing what I wanna do. I can walk out this door right now and do whatever my heart desires. I love America.

America is so racist they elected a black president, twice *Half black but still*. Even though black people make up such a small portion of the population. Explain that to me. How did racist America allow that to happen?

Apparently the system is made to keep black people at the bottom of the ladder? It doesn't get much more at the top than President of the United States. This isn't against anyone in particular by the way but... This whole narrative that America is so racist, I just don't see it. Like, anywhere. That's my ramble on the topic for today. Bye now.


The black experience is not a monolith sir.

But since you asked. Here's a video of a White woman explaining it. Hope it helps.



Enjoying the optics of an old white lady explaining to a black man why he’s disadvantaged, completely contradicting his “lived experience” (which is usually treated as sacred).


That's one way you could look at it I suppose. Don't know if you watched the video or not but she never references disadvantage. She's the person who coined the term "White privilege" and frames the definition from the standpoint of what advantages she benefits from because of her color, not from who is disadvantaged by it. And lived experience has crap to do with defining specific terms, and you know that.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#90 » by Andrew McCeltic » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:03 pm

I know it doesn’t work to say “don’t have a victim mentality” because it dismisses the injustice of not having a level playing field. But at the same time… don’t be a victim? It is absolutely a healthier and more adaptive attitude on a personal level. Don’t be a victim, AND fight for social justice.

On college campuses there are massive increases in mental health problems and an observed decline in resiliency - it doesn’t seem impossible that’s connected to the way we’ve started encouraging people to understand themselves, their group identities, and the strains of life..
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#91 » by Andrew McCeltic » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:09 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
The black experience is not a monolith sir.

But since you asked. Here's a video of a White woman explaining it. Hope it helps.



Enjoying the optics of an old white lady explaining to a black man why he’s disadvantaged, completely contradicting his “lived experience” (which is usually treated as sacred).


That's one way you could look at it I suppose. Don't know if you watched the video or not but she never references disadvantage. She's the person who coined the term "White privilege" and frames the definition from the standpoint of what advantages she benefits from because of her color, not from who is disadvantaged by it. And lived experience has crap to do with defining specific terms, and you know that.


Right, but that was my criticism earlier - why encourage white people to reflect, “I’m so privileged, now I’m conscious of it, such a social problem”? Why not encourage white people to extend “privileges” to everyone? So that people of color don’t have to worry about being under suspicion when they’re shopping, or getting substandard health care? Privilege discourse very often seems like a way for white people to become self-involved and guilty - “I’m doing the work and trying to be better” - instead of talking about, or working for, making amends.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#92 » by bucknersrevenge » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:09 pm

LoquaciousLarry wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
LoquaciousLarry wrote:

I love this post. I was shut down from a work conference with students for trying to inspire minority students not to have a victim mentality but to look at it that if they have had a harder road with more obstacles, how much stronger and more prepared they'll be than others because of their abilities to take on and overcome amazing challenges. Without conflict, character cannot be built. I agree we should be focused on equity and equality in this country. I'm also proud to be an American where we can protest and have freedom of speech so everyone's feelings and opinions can be heard.



So...racism is now a hurdle to be overcome by minorities. An "amazing challenge" that builds character when you overcome it. ZERO African-Americans are victims. They are SURVIVORS of generational trauma and oppression. And despite being the human scaffolding and collateral damage upon which this country was built. African-Americans continue to excel, and contribute in every industry despite the obstacles that they have to overcome that most do not.





If someone feels like their race is what's holding them back from having a fair opportunity or adequate privilege, then yes it would be a hurdle they'd have to overcome. African Americans are definitely victims in some cases. There are Mexican-Americans, Asian-Americans, White Americans that go through lots of struggles too. In my opinion having a victim mentality is never a positive thing and if you can inspire someone to overcome, that's what success is all about. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, as it is very prevalent in almost every culture in human history, but I cannot play God and make everything right in this world. I call out racism when I see it but I don't see other cultures or races as lesser than my own, thus I agreed with the African-American poster who seemed to have a similar mindset as myself.

Yeah the Bible is an amazing book, has some radicalism but also standards that were fought for and lots of valuable lessons. I don't think God ever wants a just person to be murdered or killed but thats just my interpretation. I think doing good deeds and treating everyone fairly is good practice.

As far as me being exhibit A on why nothing ever changes, I could say the same about your attitude as you view opposite cultures as less than or victims when I view them as being just as good if not better and my equal. We won't see eye to eye so have a great day.

I understand in America there are benefits for many for being white but I understand its a much more complex issue on a case by case basis. i think we should all be proud of our backgrounds and respect one another's heritage while seeing each other as brothers and sisters. My grandfather was an Italian immigrant who worked in New York City while going to school before fighting in WWII, he definitely didn't have it as well off as I do now. The Irish were extremely racist against him but as the country has progressed I never faced a fraction of what he did. There's a long way to go but America is a melting pot of many different cultures which is a beautiful thing to be a part of but needs to continue to be worked on by coming together to overcome things rather than segregating.

The best thing in my opinion is for people to hold each other accountable whether its me telling a black person not to use a racial slur against a Jewish person or Asian person or telling a white person to shut up and stop being racist when mistreating an Afican-American, Mexican, Japanese person etc. I respect your opinions though, I know on this board I'll be one of the few with this viewpoint but thats why I moved to Texas anyways haha


No sir. You keep missing it. NOBODY believes their race is "holding them back". People feel like those in power (read= rich White men) are holding THEM back solely because of their race. Big difference. And viewing matters on a case by case basis never address the roots of the issue. Which by the way has less to do with slurs or anecdotal mistreatments. I'm starting to become a broken record here so I need to stop before I say something I can't take back. It's about the systems of power and oppression that make it okay for a person to say those things without being punished for it.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#93 » by bucknersrevenge » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:14 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:
Enjoying the optics of an old white lady explaining to a black man why he’s disadvantaged, completely contradicting his “lived experience” (which is usually treated as sacred).


That's one way you could look at it I suppose. Don't know if you watched the video or not but she never references disadvantage. She's the person who coined the term "White privilege" and frames the definition from the standpoint of what advantages she benefits from because of her color, not from who is disadvantaged by it. And lived experience has crap to do with defining specific terms, and you know that.


Right, but that was my criticism earlier - why encourage white people to reflect, “I’m so privileged, now I’m conscious of it, such a social problem”? Why not encourage white people to extend “privileges” to everyone? So that people of color don’t have to worry about being under suspicion when they’re shopping, or getting substandard health care? Privilege discourse very often seems like a way for white people to become self-involved and guilty - “I’m doing the work and trying to be better” - instead of talking about, or working for, making amends.


You mean like the voting rights act? Or the Justice in Policing Act? Or making the lynching of Blacks a federal crime? Or eliminating things like "Stop and Frisk"? You're preaching to the choir man. Tell a friend why don't you?
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#94 » by LoquaciousLarry » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:16 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
LoquaciousLarry wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:

So...racism is now a hurdle to be overcome by minorities. An "amazing challenge" that builds character when you overcome it. ZERO African-Americans are victims. They are SURVIVORS of generational trauma and oppression. And despite being the human scaffolding and collateral damage upon which this country was built. African-Americans continue to excel, and contribute in every industry despite the obstacles that they have to overcome that most do not.





If someone feels like their race is what's holding them back from having a fair opportunity or adequate privilege, then yes it would be a hurdle they'd have to overcome. African Americans are definitely victims in some cases. There are Mexican-Americans, Asian-Americans, White Americans that go through lots of struggles too. In my opinion having a victim mentality is never a positive thing and if you can inspire someone to overcome, that's what success is all about. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, as it is very prevalent in almost every culture in human history, but I cannot play God and make everything right in this world. I call out racism when I see it but I don't see other cultures or races as lesser than my own, thus I agreed with the African-American poster who seemed to have a similar mindset as myself.

Yeah the Bible is an amazing book, has some radicalism but also standards that were fought for and lots of valuable lessons. I don't think God ever wants a just person to be murdered or killed but thats just my interpretation. I think doing good deeds and treating everyone fairly is good practice.

As far as me being exhibit A on why nothing ever changes, I could say the same about your attitude as you view opposite cultures as less than or victims when I view them as being just as good if not better and my equal. We won't see eye to eye so have a great day.

I understand in America there are benefits for many for being white but I understand its a much more complex issue on a case by case basis. i think we should all be proud of our backgrounds and respect one another's heritage while seeing each other as brothers and sisters. My grandfather was an Italian immigrant who worked in New York City while going to school before fighting in WWII, he definitely didn't have it as well off as I do now. The Irish were extremely racist against him but as the country has progressed I never faced a fraction of what he did. There's a long way to go but America is a melting pot of many different cultures which is a beautiful thing to be a part of but needs to continue to be worked on by coming together to overcome things rather than segregating.

The best thing in my opinion is for people to hold each other accountable whether its me telling a black person not to use a racial slur against a Jewish person or Asian person or telling a white person to shut up and stop being racist when mistreating an Afican-American, Mexican, Japanese person etc. I respect your opinions though, I know on this board I'll be one of the few with this viewpoint but thats why I moved to Texas anyways haha


No sir. You keep missing it. NOBODY believes their race is "holding them back". People feel like those in power (read= rich White men) are holding THEM back solely because of their race. Big difference. And viewing matters on a case by case basis never address the roots of the issue. Which by the way has less to do with slurs or anecdotal mistreatments. I'm starting to become a broken record here so I need to stop before I say something I can't take back. It's about the systems of power and oppression that make it okay for a person to say those things without being punished for it.


I definitely get it but I disagree with your thinking entirely and think its causing more segregation and trouble than ever before. I've never been a part of an institution that openly promotes racism or anything of the sort. If anything, the rich are pushing the agenda to cause division and dissension among the public more than ever before. That's their plan and its working to a tee. Having an old rich white woman speaking about racism over the perspective of an African American male that has his own opinion and thinking she's right and he's wrong is blasphemy. Take care.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#95 » by Andrew McCeltic » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:26 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
That's one way you could look at it I suppose. Don't know if you watched the video or not but she never references disadvantage. She's the person who coined the term "White privilege" and frames the definition from the standpoint of what advantages she benefits from because of her color, not from who is disadvantaged by it. And lived experience has crap to do with defining specific terms, and you know that.


Right, but that was my criticism earlier - why encourage white people to reflect, “I’m so privileged, now I’m conscious of it, such a social problem”? Why not encourage white people to extend “privileges” to everyone? So that people of color don’t have to worry about being under suspicion when they’re shopping, or getting substandard health care? Privilege discourse very often seems like a way for white people to become self-involved and guilty - “I’m doing the work and trying to be better” - instead of talking about, or working for, making amends.


You mean like the voting rights act? Or the Justice in Policing Act? Or making the lynching of Blacks a federal crime? Or eliminating things like "Stop and Frisk"? You're preaching to the choir man. Tell a friend why don't you?


I’m not talking about you - I’m talking about the patterns, repetitions and emphases in the conversation. It’s always very shallow and not specific. There are real, tangible things that can make the country more fair and more honest. Talk about those. The rest - preaching? - it all feels like good white liberals reciting their catechism.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#96 » by Curmudgeon » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:29 pm

There are the trees and the forest. It's misleading to look at the individual trees. After all, LeBron and JayZ are billionaires. But by almost every economic and sociological measure, the position of Blacks as a whole vs Whites as a whole has not improved very much over the last 57 years (since the Civil Rights Act).
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#97 » by GoGreen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:33 pm

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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#98 » by Shak_Celts » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:38 pm

SuperDeluxe wrote:
titlebound1 wrote:Make it a national holiday so it's easier for people to vote.

Where I originally come from (Argentina), all election days are holidays. There's a cost to this of course, but a fully functioning democracy is more valuable than a lost day of work. Here in Canada, however, election day is a working day (but employers are obligated to let people go vote and still pay for their time).

As for the voter ID, back in Argentina (as opposed to the US or Canada), everybody has a personal ID that you always carry in your wallet. You use that ID for everything, including voting. When I moved to Canada, I was surprised to see that there wasn't a similar piece of ID here. I use my driver's license in Canada as my ID for most things, but am aware that many people don't drive so I have no idea how they ID themselves -- I guess with their health card?

Do people in the US have an official card with their SSN? If so, couldn't that card be used as a voter ID?


Yes, people have SSN cards but then you have to know how many people still have them or the ones who didn't get replacements when they are lost. Then you have to worry about the people who can't afford a replacement. Some will say, "it's only 30." (not an average, just what I have had to pay in the past), but you're talking about people who skip meals, people who can't afford to get their cars fixed, people who can't pay rent that month, etc. ID and license cost money.

The problem isn't requiring ID, the problem is things set up to make it hard/impossible for some people to get them. When you make laws requiring ID before you give solutions to helping people get them, you are doing that to suppress, you aren't trying to stop voter fraud (the real buzz words that aren't reality-based)!
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#99 » by GoGreen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:43 pm

Shak_Celts wrote:
SuperDeluxe wrote:
titlebound1 wrote:Make it a national holiday so it's easier for people to vote.

Where I originally come from (Argentina), all election days are holidays. There's a cost to this of course, but a fully functioning democracy is more valuable than a lost day of work. Here in Canada, however, election day is a working day (but employers are obligated to let people go vote and still pay for their time).

As for the voter ID, back in Argentina (as opposed to the US or Canada), everybody has a personal ID that you always carry in your wallet. You use that ID for everything, including voting. When I moved to Canada, I was surprised to see that there wasn't a similar piece of ID here. I use my driver's license in Canada as my ID for most things, but am aware that many people don't drive so I have no idea how they ID themselves -- I guess with their health card?

Do people in the US have an official card with their SSN? If so, couldn't that card be used as a voter ID?


Yes, people have SSN cards but then you have to know how many people still have them or the ones who didn't get replacements when they are lost. Then you have to worry about the people who can't afford a replacement. Some will say, "it's only 30." (not an average, just what I have had to pay in the past), but you're talking about people who skip meals, people who can't afford to get their cars fixed, people who can't pay rent that month, etc. ID and license cost money.

The problem isn't requiring ID, the problem is things set up to make it hard/impossible for some people to get them. When you make laws requiring ID before you give solutions to helping people get them, you are doing that to suppress, you aren't trying to stop voter fraud (the real buzz words that aren't reality-based)!


Man you nailed it. This country is ALL about having to jump through hoops just to get anything done! Nothing is easy, and it's that way on purpose.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#100 » by Shak_Celts » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:19 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:There are the trees and the forest. It's misleading to look at the individual trees. After all, LeBron and JayZ are billionaires. But by almost every economic and sociological measure, the position of Blacks as a whole vs Whites as a whole has not improved very much over the last 57 years (since the Civil Rights Act).


Just work harder or twice as hard! Forget what that implies for a moment. Black people are the most educated, and yet the ENORMOUS wage gap hasn't shrunk in over 30 years!! So, black folks are working twice as hard just for the pleasure of getting half as much. Now THAT is inspiring. :roll:

Black women are killing it on the education front (black men too but women are dominant), they not only lead in getting a higher education, but they are also earning degrees at a higher rate! Doing all this while black women are only around 13% of the female population. Black women don't just outpace women, nope all that working "twice as hard" has them outpacing men! It's so weird that working harder or twice as hard isn't the issue. :o



I know, I said and I am going to stop talking about this topic. The other things are fair game.
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