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OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread.

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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#41 » by celtics543 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:43 am

Shak_Celts wrote:
celtics543 wrote:
Shak_Celts wrote:
You are one person, now imagine all the people passed over or never given the opportunity for the position all the other white men had. You say she is doing better than you would have, had they stuck to the status quo, you would have never known that. You are thinking micro when you should be thinking macro.

You say they knew they were giving the job to a woman anyway but at least you got an interview. They gave you their time, that they didn't give any others (your words), you were SEEN.

We have to fight just to be seen. Black Lives Matter is about just that, we want consideration.

Also, "minorities" aren't making things about race, religion, sex, etc. it's been that way. If things have been this way from the beginning and shining a light on it makes "you" uncomfortable, that means "you" were comfortable as long as it was just about "your" race, sex, and religion!



That's what I'm saying. We aren't at a point yet where anything can be assumed. We need to be fighting for more diversity in the workplace and more opportunities for those who are overlooked. I was just giving an example of when I was overlooked based on something that I can't change about myself. I was trying to put myself in the shoes of people who that happens to on a daily basis. I'll never understand what it's like to be a minority where I live. My point is that I hope for a world where things that you're born with, race, gender, religion etc aren't important factors in getting an opportunity because we've realized how ridiculous it is to make those factors.

I'm sorry if my original post made it seem like I was blaming minorities for making things about race, religion, sex etc that wasn't my intent. I think everyone unfortunately defaults to those things. The dream for me would be a world where none of those things mattered. The content of character would be the defining characteristic of a human being, not their skin color, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion or anything else.

I can't possibly understand what it's like to be a minority in this country. But I am doing my best to learn and to help in the fight so that they can be seen and given the same opportunities. Shining a light on things doesn't make me uncomfortable, it needs to happen and it's going to be ugly and full of harsh realities for a lot of people but in the end the playing field needs to be even.

If my post came off as anything else then I apologize. The intent was to unify and try to understand. I understand lots of minorities get passed over for jobs and opportunity all the time. It's not fair. It needs to be fixed. My whole point is that I hope I live long enough to see the day where it's become so commonplace for equity to exist that no one even thinks about race, religion, gender etc.

I think this will be my last post in this thread. I genuinely want to learn about this topic though and will continue reading the replies. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of this important discussion.


You don't have to apologize for your comment. It's a discussion. Why stop talking? A discussion requires at least two people, we don't have to agree on everything. I can talk to myself but I prefer talking to "you."

I talk to proud racists all the time and I doubt whether we agree on the color of the sky. I don't have anything against you, so I know we should be able to hold a conversation no matter which side we come from.

Edit: I'll dive deeper into your comment if you are open to discussion.


I'd love to continue talking with you, you seem like a great person. I'm hoping you don't think I'm a "proud racist". I like to believe I'm far from that. I'm just a white guy who lives in Maine who realizes he has a lot to learn about diversity. I will take the ignorant tag because that's what I believe I am. I'm ignorant to what it's like for people who didn't grow up as part of the majority. I'd like to believe there are far less racists than there are just people who are ignorant to the struggles of groups of people they don't belong to.

Thanks for being cool on this topic and helping to educate me.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#42 » by GWVan » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:42 am

This is a remarkable thread and you are all to be congratulated on the civil tone and thoughtfulness. Considering the general tone of this forum I am actually stunned. This gives me hope for our country as a whole. If this bunch of knuckleheads can actually reasonably discuss this issue then maybe there is hope for us all. Thank you all for that.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#43 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:37 pm

celtics543 wrote:
Shak_Celts wrote:
celtics543 wrote:

That's what I'm saying. We aren't at a point yet where anything can be assumed. We need to be fighting for more diversity in the workplace and more opportunities for those who are overlooked. I was just giving an example of when I was overlooked based on something that I can't change about myself. I was trying to put myself in the shoes of people who that happens to on a daily basis. I'll never understand what it's like to be a minority where I live. My point is that I hope for a world where things that you're born with, race, gender, religion etc aren't important factors in getting an opportunity because we've realized how ridiculous it is to make those factors.

I'm sorry if my original post made it seem like I was blaming minorities for making things about race, religion, sex etc that wasn't my intent. I think everyone unfortunately defaults to those things. The dream for me would be a world where none of those things mattered. The content of character would be the defining characteristic of a human being, not their skin color, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion or anything else.

I can't possibly understand what it's like to be a minority in this country. But I am doing my best to learn and to help in the fight so that they can be seen and given the same opportunities. Shining a light on things doesn't make me uncomfortable, it needs to happen and it's going to be ugly and full of harsh realities for a lot of people but in the end the playing field needs to be even.

If my post came off as anything else then I apologize. The intent was to unify and try to understand. I understand lots of minorities get passed over for jobs and opportunity all the time. It's not fair. It needs to be fixed. My whole point is that I hope I live long enough to see the day where it's become so commonplace for equity to exist that no one even thinks about race, religion, gender etc.

I think this will be my last post in this thread. I genuinely want to learn about this topic though and will continue reading the replies. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of this important discussion.


You don't have to apologize for your comment. It's a discussion. Why stop talking? A discussion requires at least two people, we don't have to agree on everything. I can talk to myself but I prefer talking to "you."

I talk to proud racists all the time and I doubt whether we agree on the color of the sky. I don't have anything against you, so I know we should be able to hold a conversation no matter which side we come from.

Edit: I'll dive deeper into your comment if you are open to discussion.


I'd love to continue talking with you, you seem like a great person. I'm hoping you don't think I'm a "proud racist". I like to believe I'm far from that. I'm just a white guy who lives in Maine who realizes he has a lot to learn about diversity. I will take the ignorant tag because that's what I believe I am. I'm ignorant to what it's like for people who didn't grow up as part of the majority. I'd like to believe there are far less racists than there are just people who are ignorant to the struggles of groups of people they don't belong to.

Thanks for being cool on this topic and helping to educate me.


I hope that I'm not speaking too far out of turn but I don't think she thought that you were. I don't. I've appreciated your contribution to this discussion and I get it. I used to live in New Hampshire for 10 years. And I get that when you live in areas that lack a considerably minority representation, it can be difficult to explore and formulate a fully 3-dimensional representative view. It's even harder to consider the emotions wrapped up in this from all sides. People in general don't do what is right. They do what they feel is right. It is the emotion that convicts their action. And sometimes, what is morally right, and what feels right, and what's legally right are the same thing, and sometimes they're not. That's why it is so important to affect the kind of change you spoke of in your previous post through binding policy. Policy scaffolds behavior.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#44 » by Red2 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:53 pm

Brad said the C’s need a new voice. Translation: they weren’t listening to the old voice. I think the Celts want a former NbA player as a coach. Someone the young players will listen to and respect. I also think they want a coach who can deliver tough love
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#45 » by nic4747 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:17 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
I hope that I'm not speaking too far out of turn but I don't think she thought that you were. I don't. I've appreciated your contribution to this discussion and I get it. I used to live in New Hampshire for 10 years. And I get that when you live in areas that lack a considerably minority representation, it can be difficult to explore and formulate a fully 3-dimensional representative view. It's even harder to consider the emotions wrapped up in this from all sides. People in general don't do what is right. They do what they feel is right. It is the emotion that convicts their action. And sometimes, what is morally right, and what feels right, and what's legally right are the same thing, and sometimes they're not. That's why it is so important to affect the kind of change you spoke of in your previous post through binding policy. Policy scaffolds behavior.


I second that it can be difficult to get the full picture when you don't live in an area with a lot of minorities and are fortunate enough to be in a group that doesn't experience these issues. I think sometimes people without this perspective think about racial issues in very simplistic terms (e.g. we had a black president, black people don't have to sit in the back of the bus anymore, so what's the problem) and tend to think that if a black person is in a bad spot, it's because of their own choices as opposed to barriers created by society. The issue is they aren't seeing the societal barriers because those barriers aren't as obvious now as they once were and they don't always impact everyone the same way. And when people see the efforts to correct for those barriers it breeds resentment and people walk away thinking that black people are the advantaged group and white people are the disadvantaged group (because they are only seeing the efforts to correct for the barriers and not the barriers themselves).

People often have these types of conversations by talking about white privilege, which I personally think is NOT a smart approach because it keeps the spotlight on the white person which kinda blows my mind (i.e. the white person is still front and center EVEN during a discussion about racial issues). I think the focus during these discussions should be on the minorities (i.e. we should be talking about why minorities are disadvantaged as opposed to why white people are privledged). It's obviously two sides of the same coin but I think it's a more strategic way to have the conversation.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#46 » by Andrew McCeltic » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:50 pm

Yeah, I wonder the same thing - I feel like instead of focusing on making white people feel bad about and relinquish their “privilege”, the focus could be on extending those same “privileges” to POC - it comes across as zero sum sometimes.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#47 » by GoGreen » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:52 pm

Red2 wrote:Brad said the C’s need a new voice. Translation: they weren’t listening to the old voice. I think the Celts want a former NbA player as a coach. Someone the young players will listen to and respect. I also think they want a coach who can deliver tough love


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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#48 » by ZeroTolerance » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:06 pm

:dontknow: I don't care if the next coach is purple or transgender....if he's the right person.. hire whatever you want to call ...(is it OK to say "It)"?
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#49 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:14 pm

nic4747 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
I hope that I'm not speaking too far out of turn but I don't think she thought that you were. I don't. I've appreciated your contribution to this discussion and I get it. I used to live in New Hampshire for 10 years. And I get that when you live in areas that lack a considerably minority representation, it can be difficult to explore and formulate a fully 3-dimensional representative view. It's even harder to consider the emotions wrapped up in this from all sides. People in general don't do what is right. They do what they feel is right. It is the emotion that convicts their action. And sometimes, what is morally right, and what feels right, and what's legally right are the same thing, and sometimes they're not. That's why it is so important to affect the kind of change you spoke of in your previous post through binding policy. Policy scaffolds behavior.


I second that it can be difficult to get the full picture when you don't live in an area with a lot of minorities and are fortunate enough to be in a group that doesn't experience these issues. I think sometimes people without this perspective think about racial issues in very simplistic terms (e.g. we had a black president, black people don't have to sit in the back of the bus anymore, so what's the problem) and tend to think that if a black person is in a bad spot, it's because of their own choices as opposed to barriers created by society. The issue is they aren't seeing the societal barriers because those barriers aren't as obvious now as they once were and they don't always impact everyone the same way. And when people see the efforts to correct for those barriers it breeds resentment and people walk away thinking that black people are the advantaged group and white people are the disadvantaged group (because they are only seeing the efforts to correct for the barriers and not the barriers themselves).

People often have these types of conversations by talking about white privilege, which I personally think is NOT a smart approach because it keeps the spotlight on the white person which kinda blows my mind (i.e. the white person is still front and center EVEN during a discussion about racial issues). I think the focus during these discussions should be on the minorities (i.e. we should be talking about why minorities are disadvantaged as opposed to why white people are privledged). It's obviously two sides of the same coin but I think it's a more strategic way to have the conversation.


But what makes it more strategic though? I agree to the extent that this shouldn't be about White privilege or guilt. The privilege part comes into play when people can't get out of their own ethnocentric view to understand that minorities are disadvantaged in the first place. THAT is where the "privilege conversation" stems from. Often we can't have the conversation you're suggesting that we have because we have to have that one first and people have trouble getting past it.

Case in point, according to a recent study conducted by the New York Times, voter interest and support in the Black Lives Matter movement (not activist group but the movement itself) has now fallen to levels below where it was in January 2020 before the death of Breonna Taylor and George Floyd. Because the issues brought forth by this "racial reckoning" have become a political football during this last voting cycle. And now that the pandemic is ending and people are beginning to go back out and we are now further removed from those events that led to the original shock and awe that engaged greater White society, the backlash has come. And that is the essence of privilege. We now have several states endorsing policies that would roll back voting rights that would affect minorities. Not only are we no closer to the complete enfranchisement of minorities, but we seem to be going backwards now.

We've had a ton of conversations. I don't see how anything changes without good White people talking to and engaging with other White people about these issues in their own spaces. Families have to have conversations in their living room about these problems without feeling attacked or guilty and confront biases. When a son can comfortably talk to his father, or sister to mother in their own home and lovingly but honestly talk about these things and advocate on behalf of the minorities not in the room, then we'll be getting somewhere.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#50 » by Shak_Celts » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:52 pm

Look up articles/videos with Dr Robin DiAngelo, not because she's saying anything different than black folk have been saying forever, but because like Buckner says, white folk need to "check your own people!" (he didn't say it that way but that's what I got from it!)
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#51 » by nic4747 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:50 am

bucknersrevenge wrote:But what makes it more strategic though? I agree to the extent that this shouldn't be about White privilege or guilt. The privilege part comes into play when people can't get out of their own ethnocentric view to understand that minorities are disadvantaged in the first place. THAT is where the "privilege conversation" stems from. Often we can't have the conversation you're suggesting that we have because we have to have that one first and people have trouble getting past it.


I think saying it puts people on the defensive, and when someone is defensive your changes of getting through to them decrease by about 95%. The discussion also just ends up talking about why minorities are disadvantaged anyways so why not skip directly to this and cut out the middle man? I guess I don't think talking about privledge is an effective "sales pitch" into that conversation.

It also puts the person saying it at a disadvantage because they have to say something about a person they don't actually know anything about. While racism is a serious problem, it's not the only problem out there people face. For example, a person in a wheel chair might trade the ability to walk again for some racism. Similarly, people could be facing other severe physical or mental issues and may not be sympathetic because of it, particularly if they become "hardened" because people in their lives don't show them sympathy about their issues.

I also think people are likely to misinterpret the "privledged" concept, because they have no idea what it means. So they will try to equate it to something in their lives but who knows what they are using as an analogy so everything gets lost in translation. But maybe it works sometimes, honestly I have no idea. Just my two cents.

bucknersrevenge wrote:Case in point, according to a recent study conducted by the New York Times, voter interest and support in the Black Lives Matter movement (not activist group but the movement itself) has now fallen to levels below where it was in January 2020 before the death of Breonna Taylor and George Floyd. Because the issues brought forth by this "racial reckoning" have become a political football during this last voting cycle. And now that the pandemic is ending and people are beginning to go back out and we are now further removed from those events that led to the original shock and awe that engaged greater White society, the backlash has come. And that is the essence of privilege. We now have several states endorsing policies that would roll back voting rights that would affect minorities. Not only are we no closer to the complete enfranchisement of minorities, but we seem to be going backwards now.


Not surprising, the public has a short attention span. The key is using that temporary outrage to enact more permanent solutions. That could be having a conversation with someone and getting them to change their perspective, or it could be getting legislation passed. I would hope that George Floyd, etc. cases have resulted in permanent improvements to police departments around the country. In theory, changing how a police department operates is relatively straight forward with the right community organizing, because it's all controlled at the local government level. But in reality it's difficult without sufficient funding and knowledge and there are institutional barriers (in this case, the police unions) that are built to endure.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#52 » by djFan71 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:35 am

nic4747 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:But what makes it more strategic though? I agree to the extent that this shouldn't be about White privilege or guilt. The privilege part comes into play when people can't get out of their own ethnocentric view to understand that minorities are disadvantaged in the first place. THAT is where the "privilege conversation" stems from. Often we can't have the conversation you're suggesting that we have because we have to have that one first and people have trouble getting past it.


I think saying it puts people on the defensive, and when someone is defensive your changes of getting through to them decrease by about 95%. The discussion also just ends up talking about why minorities are disadvantaged anyways so why not skip directly to this and cut out the middle man? I guess I don't think talking about privledge is an effective "sales pitch" into that conversation.

It also puts the person saying it at a disadvantage because they have to say something about a person they don't actually know anything about. While racism is a serious problem, it's not the only problem out there people face. For example, a person in a wheel chair might trade the ability to walk again for some racism. Similarly, people could be facing other severe physical or mental issues and may not be sympathetic because of it, particularly if they become "hardened" because people in their lives don't show them sympathy about their issues.

I also think people are likely to misinterpret the "privledged" concept, because they have no idea what it means. So they will try to equate it to something in their lives but who knows what they are using as an analogy so everything gets lost in translation. But maybe it works sometimes, honestly I have no idea. Just my two cents.

bucknersrevenge wrote:Case in point, according to a recent study conducted by the New York Times, voter interest and support in the Black Lives Matter movement (not activist group but the movement itself) has now fallen to levels below where it was in January 2020 before the death of Breonna Taylor and George Floyd. Because the issues brought forth by this "racial reckoning" have become a political football during this last voting cycle. And now that the pandemic is ending and people are beginning to go back out and we are now further removed from those events that led to the original shock and awe that engaged greater White society, the backlash has come. And that is the essence of privilege. We now have several states endorsing policies that would roll back voting rights that would affect minorities. Not only are we no closer to the complete enfranchisement of minorities, but we seem to be going backwards now.


Not surprising, the public has a short attention span. The key is using that temporary outrage to enact more permanent solutions. That could be having a conversation with someone and getting them to change their perspective, or it could be getting legislation passed. I would hope that George Floyd, etc. cases have resulted in permanent improvements to police departments around the country. In theory, changing how a police department operates is relatively straight forward with the right community organizing, because it's all controlled at the local government level. But in reality it's difficult without sufficient funding and knowledge and there are institutional barriers (in this case, the police unions) that are built to endure.

I do think there is a bit of a branding issue. Terms like white privilege and defund the police immediately cause a lot of white people to react negatively. Instead of trying to understand the concepts, the gut reaction is "I'm not privileged, I work my *** off" or "we need to be tough on crime not take away money".

But if you explain that privilege doesn't mean you were handed things, but that you had less obstacles to overcome. And that defund the police means reallocating money/training into other ways of dealing with issues that don't need force, then you get a more receptive conversation. But, it's a hurdle to even start the conversation with those phrases.

Nobody likes to think they're racist, and most white people wish it wasn't a thing. But, it is and wishing it wasn't a thing won't make it go away. So, going from "I'm not racist, so what's the problem" to "I'm helping to combat racism" is the goal. But, it's honestly super-hard for the average person to see this HUGE problem and figure out what they can do - black or white. Same with the environment, partisanship, whatever. Where the heck do you start? I've done marches, voted, contacted my representatives, and it at the same time feels like you are at least doing something, but it's super easy to feel like it's nowhere near enough and not ever going to make a difference.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#53 » by djFan71 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:48 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:Yeah, I wonder the same thing - I feel like instead of focusing on making white people feel bad about and relinquish their “privilege”, the focus could be on extending those same “privileges” to POC - it comes across as zero sum sometimes.

That's definitely the goal, and as per my last post, I think the term "white privilege" is more flawed than the concept. White people have less barriers to overcome in most facets of life in the US. That's just a fact. But, phrasing that so it's not attacking the current white people for that and helping them understand how they can help break down those barriers for others is key.

Just off the top of my head: schools, voting rights, and grocery stores. In theory, all Americans have equal access to all of those. But, in reality, the schools in white neighborhoods generally have more $ and are of better quality. The polling places in white areas are more plentiful and accessible. Even grocery (and other types of) stores are more prevalent in white neighborhoods. Just from that, a white person has many less barriers to overcome to get to the same level of success as a similarly talented, motivated non-white who has to fight harder to get a good education, vote and eat a healthy diet.

Obviously, those are sweeping generalizations. There are poor white neighborhoods and rich non-white neighborhoods. But the average demographics play out in favor of white people. Not through anything those current white people have done, but through just the history of this country as it evolved.

And that's true even if everyone is color-blind and has no racist intent. When you add more direct racism on top of that, it gets worse.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#54 » by moonie_mcgee » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:17 am

I hate the term "person of color". By definition it's just another term for "colored person" which so many good people fought so hard to condemn. How did this get popularized. Seems like it's used most often by disingenous, white liberals. Hope people start speaking out against it. The racial divisiveness is a false premise pulling our people and our country apart. Enough.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#55 » by Shak_Celts » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:47 am

So, we're talking about rephrasing things so white people don't cry? Great. Once again, we're left considering white feelings as everyone else suffers. Talking about branding, as if saying it differently is going to stop people from suffering because of racism, prejudice, and or being murdered. Always want black people and other "minorities" to act in ways as not to ruffle feathers or hurt feelings. Want us to sing Kumbaya while you got your boot on our necks. :banghead:


I'm going to head on out. Not running away from the convo, I'm trying not to get banned. This conversation isn't supposed to be pretty. This isn't about simple disagreement, again I disagree and have convos with people all the time, this is about not being able to say what I need/want to. I threw the softest lobs that I could muster and still, people found ways to make themselves the victim (not just in this thread).

It's my own fault for thinking I would be okay half-assing it, as long as we were talking about it, but pussyfooting around the issue isn't a bag I'm trying to carry.

Some people are saying a few things that need to be said, I'll just let them handle it from here.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#56 » by moonie_mcgee » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:24 am

American families don't see race. They see families, friends, neighbors, teammates and coworkers. Phoney white liberals only see race for political gain while they fight to advance abortion, gun control and cheap labor. The phoney white liberal lies about racism in America is a losing message.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#57 » by moonie_mcgee » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:36 am

Phoney white liberals hate Hate HATE Trump. Yet he gained BIGTIME with EVERY group but college educated whites. He spoke to all Americans about what's important to all Americans. Freedom, jobs, security, energy, etc.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#58 » by djFan71 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:48 am

Shak_Celts wrote:So, we're talking about rephrasing things so white people don't cry? Great. Once again, we're left considering white feelings as everyone else suffers. Talking about branding, as if saying it differently is going to stop people from suffering because of racism, prejudice, and or being murdered. Always want black people and other "minorities" to act in ways as not to ruffle feathers or hurt feelings. Want us to sing Kumbaya while you got your boot on our necks. :banghead:

I'm going to head on out. Not running away from the convo, I'm trying not to get banned. This conversation isn't supposed to be pretty. This isn't about simple disagreement, again I disagree and have convos with people all the time, this is about not being able to say what I need/want to. I threw the softest lobs that I could muster and still, people found ways to make themselves the victim (not just in this thread).

It's my own fault for thinking I would be okay half-assing it, as long as we were talking about it, but pussyfooting around the issue isn't a bag I'm trying to carry.

Some people are saying a few things that need to be said, I'll just let them handle it from here.

You're not wrong, and it totally sucks. But, if you're trying to have a conversation, yeah, you need to make sure the people you're trying to get through to aren't tuning you out off the bat. It shouldn't be your responsibility to do that, but it's the reality. And it's not about not "crying" it's about white people not believing or even listening to the problems of race.

Obviously, the terms aren't the real problem. But, it lets people turn away from the conversation before it even gets started. I've tried to talk to people about it and they give me memes like with a firefighter saying he worked 18 hours "what should I do with my white privilege now?". Or stuff like this:

Spoiler:
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Then you can't talk about the real stuff I brought up like unequal school funding, voting access, etc.

It sucks, and maybe you don't get thru any better with different phrasing, but it's definitely a turn off to people and a conversation ender. You end up debating the terms, not the issues. Just like we're doing here.

EDIT: Just to be clear, by conversation I don't mean this thread. I mean talking to people who are turned off by terms like white privilege.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#59 » by Ed Pinkney » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:08 am

I find that language often ends up being too much about semantics which then gets weaponised as part of the arguments (by the left and the right). The idea of colour blindness can also be problematic as it can ignore unique differences that should be acknowledged or even celebrated.

I personally can find language choice difficult as I am often unsure about what terms I “should or shouldn’t” use in regards to people in other groups or minorities that I am not part of. But I also don’t think it is my position to make that decision, so I try and listen about these things more than speak on them.

It is a bit of a cliche, but words in of themselves shouldn’t have any power. It is the intentions of the person or group using that word that has the power and should matter.

“Coloured person” has a history and an intention behind it that is very different from “people of colour”. Does that make it a better term to use? I don’t know and don’t feel I am in any position to make that call as I am not a person of colour.
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Re: OT: Race/gender/coaching/politics/etc thread. 

Post#60 » by nic4747 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:32 am

Just to clarify my earlier post was my opinion on what was more likely to get results and what was less likely to get results when having convos about race. I’m totally fine with people’s feelings getting hurt along the way if it helps improve the situation and I’m generally supportive of any approach that’s effective. If people find that talking about white privledge helps bring people over to their side then have at it. It hasn’t worked for me but maybe I’m doing it wrong.

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